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TRADE THREAD- President Trump signs Phase One of China agreement, China promises to double its purchases in 2020

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9 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

- Politico

- The farmer bailout stemming from Trump's trade policies is more than twice the TARP bailout.

I’m not sure what the point of connecting these two things is.  The trade negotiations are a lot more complicated than farmer subsidies. We won’t know the full impact, good or bad, for some time.  Why do you see these policies as closely related?

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5 minutes ago, jonessed said:

I’m not sure what the point of connecting these two things is.  The trade negotiations are a lot more complicated than farmer subsidies. We won’t know the full impact, good or bad, for some time.  Why do you see these policies as closely related?

Because the loss of markets directly tied to the tariffs policies led to the need for the bailout.

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2 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Because the loss of markets directly tied to the tariffs policies led to the need for the bailout.

So?  What does that have to do with TARP?

Trade negotiations are multifaceted.  Get back to me when you have enough information to analyze the entirety.  I’m not really into cherry-picking.  It’s disingenuous and a complete waste of time. 

Edited by jonessed

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Just now, jonessed said:

So?  What does that gave to do with TARP?

Tarp got brought in further up by Gopher I believe as a deflection for GM being forced out of Aus-MZ. GM didn't pay the debt supposedly remaining from the bailout. Henry mentioned Tarp, you mentioned the cost of Tarp. To me it's about an unforced error - the cost, which is continuing, of the insane tariffs policy - in comparison to something which was necessary.

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54 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Tarp got brought in further up by Gopher I believe as a deflection for GM being forced out of Aus-MZ. GM didn't pay the debt supposedly remaining from the bailout. Henry mentioned Tarp, you mentioned the cost of Tarp. To me it's about an unforced error - the cost, which is continuing, of the insane tariffs policy - in comparison to something which was necessary.

Oh, let's not forget that the pres suggested that the farmer handouts to continue until the "Chinese really gets started buying" a few days ago

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3 minutes ago, msommer said:

Oh, let's not forget that the pres suggested that the farmer handouts to continue until the "Chinese really gets started buying" a few days ago

I agree, it’s continuing.

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1 hour ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

in comparison to something which was necessary.

This is an awfully big leap to make that would take a doctoral thesis or greater. I'm not sure you can quite assert this.

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18 minutes ago, rockaction said:

This is an awfully big leap to make that would take a doctoral thesis or greater. I'm not sure you can quite assert this.

That Tarp under Bush & Obama was necessary? I’ll admit I’m stuck in the post-Depression history lessons on that one. Obviously I agree it was a hugely debated issue in 2008-09.

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3 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

That Tarp under Bush & Obama was necessary? I’ll admit I’m stuck in the post-Depression history lessons on that one. Obviously I agree it was a hugely debated issue in 2008-09.

Yep, that it was necessary for TARP in that era is what I'm getting at. It sure seemed like a short-term fix to many at the time, and we'll never know exactly how the markets and the economy would have reacted had we not bailed out the banks and started anew. Yes, likely massive recessions at first, but then?

And Quantitative Easing Infinity seems to be the name of the game, along with deficits skyrocketing to unsustainability. Once they opened the floodgates...

Edited by rockaction
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6 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Yep, that it was necessary for TARP in that era is what I'm getting at. It sure seemed like a short-term fix to many at the time, and we'll never know exactly how the markets and the economy would have reacted had we not bailed out the banks and started anew. Yes, likely massive recessions at first, but then?

And Quantitative Easing Infinity seems to be the name of the game, along with deficits skyrocketing to unsustainability. Once they opened the floodgates...

But we can both agree there was a crisis being responded to though, right?

Here we had a problem with China existing outside international structures designed to make nations play by the rules. As a result of these decisions - which were entirely voluntary - China is still outside the international rules enforcement system, we have lost access to markets that we ourselves founded and fought for, and we have a continuing (socialistic) welfare program that is more than twice TARP and which is growing and possibly permanent. It’s also substantively corporate in nature given the participation in Big AG.

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2 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

But we can both agree there was a crisis being responded to though, right?

Here we had a problem with China existing outside international structures designed to make nations play by the rules. As a result of these decisions - which were entirely voluntary - China is still outside the international rules enforcement system, we have lost access to markets that we ourselves founded and fought for, and we have a continuing (socialistic) welfare program that is more than twice TARP and which is growing and possibly permanent. It’s also substantively corporate in nature given the participation in Big AG.

I think we can both agree upon the fact that there was a crisis of major proportions.

I also think we can both agree that this China/agriculture policy is a terrible policy to have followed.

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The difference between the Ag subsidies and the auto bailout is that one is helping big business and the other the is helping little guy, the hard working heartbeat of America.

Oh and one is helping traditional GOP voters, and the other is helping traditional democratic voters.

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10 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

The difference between the Ag subsidies and the auto bailout is that one is helping big business and the other the is helping little guy, the hard working heartbeat of America.

Oh and one is helping traditional GOP voters, and the other is helping traditional democratic voters.

In both cases the jobs were saved, no? Even if "big Auto" gor the money it was to not send millions into unemployment IIRC (those would be democratic voters who had already ousted GWB and the farmers traditionally vote GOP). Not sure where you are going with this?

Edited by msommer

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1 hour ago, msommer said:

In both cases the jobs were saved, no? Even if "big Auto" gor the money it was to not send millions into unemployment IIRC (those would be democratic voters who had already ousted GWB and the farmers traditionally vote GOP). Not sure where you are going with this?

My point was that in both cases, the big winners were the big corps, with the secondary winners being the little guys, the people actually working to scrape together a living, and the losers were the tax payers as it just bumped the deficit to pay for be subsidies.

The real difference is in magnitude and where the secondary beneficiaries lie.

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3 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

My point was that in both cases, the big winners were the big corps, with the secondary winners being the little guys, the people actually working to scrape together a living, and the losers were the tax payers as it just bumped the deficit to pay for be subsidies.

The real difference is in magnitude and where the secondary beneficiaries lie.

Yeah, the other difference is that with TARP there was a real "mission accomplished" moment when the loans were paid back whereas it now seems the farm subsidies are here to stay. I'd like to see the breakdown between big ag and smallholds in subsidy compared to their pre tariff share of export sales to China

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38 minutes ago, msommer said:

Yeah, the other difference is that with TARP there was a real "mission accomplished" moment when the loans were paid back whereas it now seems the farm subsidies are here to stay. I'd like to see the breakdown between big ag and smallholds in subsidy compared to their pre tariff share of export sales to China

I'm sure someone will write a dissertation on it in the next 10 years...

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39 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

I'm sure someone will write a dissertation on it in the next 10 years...

Thing is, giving the subsidies to big ag doesn't secure the votes so it may be a self defeating subsidy

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1 hour ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

So we have hurt our farmers bad...pushed this and got nothing at all out of it but a worse situation right now for American businesses.

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12 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

So we have hurt our farmers bad...pushed this and got nothing at all out of it but a worse situation right now for American businesses.

no, trump said at the Tulsa rally that farmers got the teriff money and are all good.  :thumbup:

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5 minutes ago, beef said:

no, trump said at the Tulsa rally that farmers got the teriff money and are all good.  :thumbup:

And sadly there are people that would believe that.

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9 hours ago, beef said:

no, trump said at the Tulsa rally that farmers got the teriff money and are all good.  :thumbup:

Really?

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10 hours ago, sho nuff said:

So we have hurt our farmers bad...pushed this and got nothing at all out of it but a worse situation right now for American businesses.

So he started and lost that trade war, why do I get the feeling that he's going to try and fail again?

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Kal El said:

So he started and lost that trade war, why do I get the feeling that he's going to try and fail again?

We were just getting so tired from all of the winning that we were just given a little needed break from it.

Edited by Bottomfeeder Sports

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4 minutes ago, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

We were just getting so tired from all of the winning that we were just given a little needed break from it.

If winning is what Trump says it is, then the 2008 Detroit Lions are the best team in history.

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Posted (edited)

Japanese carmakers opt to triple Mexican pay rather than move to US 


The new North American free trade agreement that came into effect on July 1 was touted by US president Donald Trump as an engine of American job creation. But Japan’s automakers are largely opting instead to keep their Mexican operations in place and pay their workers more or even just pay tariffs.

Edited by beef

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Not sure where to put this

The United States is "looking at" banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Monday.

Pompeo suggested the possible move during an interview with Fox News' Laura Ingraham, adding that "we're taking this very seriously."

Pompeo was asked by Ingraham whether the United States should be considering a ban on Chinese social media apps, "especially TikTok."

"With respect to Chinese apps on people's cell phones, I can assure you the United States will get this one right too, Laura," he said. "I don't want to get out in front of the President [Donald Trump], but it's something we're looking at."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/tech/us-tiktok-ban/index.html

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11 minutes ago, the moops said:

Not sure where to put this

The United States is "looking at" banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Monday.

Pompeo suggested the possible move during an interview with Fox News' Laura Ingraham, adding that "we're taking this very seriously."

Pompeo was asked by Ingraham whether the United States should be considering a ban on Chinese social media apps, "especially TikTok."

"With respect to Chinese apps on people's cell phones, I can assure you the United States will get this one right too, Laura," he said. "I don't want to get out in front of the President [Donald Trump], but it's something we're looking at."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/tech/us-tiktok-ban/index.html

Good luck with that. Gen Z would revolt.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, the moops said:

Not sure where to put this

The United States is "looking at" banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Monday.

Pompeo suggested the possible move during an interview with Fox News' Laura Ingraham, adding that "we're taking this very seriously."

Pompeo was asked by Ingraham whether the United States should be considering a ban on Chinese social media apps, "especially TikTok."

"With respect to Chinese apps on people's cell phones, I can assure you the United States will get this one right too, Laura," he said. "I don't want to get out in front of the President [Donald Trump], but it's something we're looking at."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/tech/us-tiktok-ban/index.html

I don't really know what Tik Tok is....did someone say something mean about him on there or something?  

Edited by The Commish

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28 minutes ago, the moops said:

Not sure where to put this

The United States is "looking at" banning Chinese social media apps, including TikTok, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Monday.

Pompeo suggested the possible move during an interview with Fox News' Laura Ingraham, adding that "we're taking this very seriously."

Pompeo was asked by Ingraham whether the United States should be considering a ban on Chinese social media apps, "especially TikTok."

"With respect to Chinese apps on people's cell phones, I can assure you the United States will get this one right too, Laura," he said. "I don't want to get out in front of the President [Donald Trump], but it's something we're looking at."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/07/tech/us-tiktok-ban/index.html

Banning social media companies that the president doesn't like....that seems American.

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Yeah my daughters told me about this last night. They and their friends are freaking out. They all love TikTok. 

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3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Yeah my daughters told me about this last night. They and their friends are freaking out. They all love TikTok. 

This could actually motivate young people to vote.

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3 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Yeah my daughters told me about this last night. They and their friends are freaking out. They all love TikTok. 

It's really a great app.

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Just now, Drunken Cowboy said:

This could actually motivate young people to vote.

I actually think they’re already as motivated as we’re ever going to see. This will be the highest percentage of 18-30 ever. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

I actually think they’re already as motivated as we’re ever going to see. This will be the highest percentage of 18-30 ever. 

True, but it will still be a small percentage who vote.

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https://twitter.com/W7VOA/status/1280513740413304833

Quote

Almost half of the ~5,000 active FBI counter-intelligence cases are related to #China, according to Director Christopher Wray.

https://twitter.com/DeItaOne/status/1280512821680394242

Quote

FBI'S WRAY ACCUSES CHINA OF MASSIVE THEFT OF U.S. DATA, SAYS CHINA TRIES TO COMPROMISE U.S. CORONAVIRUS RESEARCH

Neither really surprises me to be quite honest.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, The Commish said:

What does the app do?

It's all short videos mostly of people dancing to the same songs or making jokes. Also lots of pet vids.

Edited by Slapdash
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https://www.axios.com/fbi-director-china-superpower-93ba35f1-7ee9-4795-bc88-bf8e84b0e673.html

Quote

"If you are an American adult, it is more likely than not that China has stolen your personal data. ... Our data isn’t the only thing at stake here — so are our health, our livelihoods, and our security," he said.

"We’ve now reached the point where the FBI is opening a new China-related counterintelligence case approximately every ten hours."

Wray said Americans should keep three things in mind:

1. China's leaders believe they are in a "generational fight" to make China the "world's only superpower by any means necessary."

2. Beijing uses a diverse set of methods to achieve its goals, including economic espionage, intelligence gathering, pushing for censorship at universities, and "malign foreign influence," referring to covert and coercive attempts to make powerful people advocate for China's interests in the U.S.

3. China is taking advantage of America's open system, while preserving its own closed system, such as by working through ostensibly private Chinese companies to achieve state goals.

 

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21 minutes ago, The Commish said:

What does the app do?

I think it’s like Vine but it also sends all of your personal data to China

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Thanks guys...only in Trump America would a social media app be the focus of the Attorney General  :lol: :wall: 

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Many of DJT's actions have opened the door further for China to infiltrate and subjugate the U.S. Go figure.

And before anyone says, "but tariffs!!!," let me just say they've been futile at eliminating any debt discrepancies between the nations and wholly successful at bringing many americans unneeded hardships. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Kal El said:

Good luck with that. Gen Z would revolt.

If that's what it takes to get some of them to vote.  SHUT IT DOWN!  

the 18+ ones...

Edited by beef

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20 minutes ago, beef said:

If that's what it takes to get some of them to vote.  SHUT IT DOWN!  

the 18+ ones...

I'm just tired of my generation being blamed by the older ones, when we're the ones with jobs, kids and mortgages. I haven't had a Spring Break since 2007.

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

So, now we're back to fighting with Canada?  Steel tariffs imposed, again.  This is the out of the box thinking we need in an economy like this :mellow: 

Canada is a natural enemy with their friendliness and always helping us out

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15 minutes ago, killface said:

Canada is a natural enemy with their friendliness and always helping us out

"Think of your children pledging allegiance to the maple leaf. Mayonnaise on everything. Winter 11 months of the year. Anne Murray, all day, every day."

“The Canadians. They walk among us. William Shatner. Michael J. Fox. Monty Hall. Mike Meyers. Alex Trebek. All of them Canadians. All of them here.”

“Canadians are always dreaming up a lotta ways to ruin our lives. The metric system, for the love of God! Celsius! Neil Young!”

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