The Commish
Footballguy
That will be true tomorrow when the stress no tariffs and the next day and the next day. That's a concept that is true at all times. It is pretty hollow in this instance.
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TRADE THREAD- President Trump signs Phase One of China agreement, China promises to double its purchases in 2020 (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
dkp993
Footballguy
So along this line of thinking...
Trump threatens nuclear war with Russia if it doesn’t stop interfering in our elections.
A press release is issued days later that a historic agreement has been reached that Russia will take unprecedented steps toward greatly reducing election interference. Details of the agreement come out its vague details amounting to nothing much different then what was happening prior.
Trump claims victory and calls off the nuclear war.
This is good President-ing and a win in your book correct?
KCitons
Footballguy
It's a win because there is no war.
Show me any post where I support Trump or said that he is winning?
It's been mentioned a long time ago, at least once by myself awhile back and just a few posts ago in this thread, I believe that Trump is manipulating the stock market. Is there anything you or I can do to prove or hold him accountable? Nope. But, I do believe the threat of tariffs and the subsequent decision to not have tariffs is a better than a threat of tariffs and following through on tariffs.
KCitons
Footballguy
dkp993
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Iam assuming this is rhetorical but if not, yes. Of course. Whenever he needs to push a narrative.
dkp993
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I’d say it’s more like those companies that announced hiring, raises, or investment before the tax cut that Trump took credit for after the tax cut.
KCitons
Footballguy
No tariffs is a win.
Set the bar wherever you want. If I think Trump is manipulating the stock market for his and his friends gain, where do you think I have the bar set?
KCitons
Footballguy
siffoin
Footballguy
Im boycotting eating any of that Gulf of Mexican shrimp if they don't support our farmers.
Trump straight up lied to you, in your face
dkp993
Footballguy
This type of win is how participation trophies were born.
The bar for what you describe is impeachment if it’s happening (which I don’t disagree with you is a possibility).
KCitons
Footballguy
I have no bar. I'm on record as saying I have little faith in any of our politicians to do the right thing on a consistent basis. I don't care if it's Trump or anyone else.
If there were to be tariffs on Mexico, then we would have lost. But, only in the sense of our economy. I do hold the belief that our southern border should not be open. The same way I believe that we have rules in regards to impeachment. From top to bottom, rules should apply to everyone.
If the Mexican government does something that will make 1 more person follow the rules, then I'm okay with the outcome. If it doesn't make 1 more person follow the rules, then I'm still okay with the outcome. No tariffs on Mexico is a win.
The Commish
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
Not really. Think of the motive for Trump's actions. If he tweet tariffs, and creates a deadline for implementing those tariffs, it makes it pretty easy to time the market. Who else in this country has that kind of power?
The Commish
Footballguy
Who cares? This has nothing to do what was said before. If it suits him for whatever reason he'll be sure to put tariffs on the table again. That shouldn't even be a question. That was the question i was asked and the one i answered. Nothing needed to be "fixed"
KCitons
Footballguy
I think a lot of people care if the President is manipulating the market.
Whether or not something needed to be fixed is still up for debate. Whether or not the threat of tariffs will make Mexico do anything to change the flow of people across the border is still up for debate.
What's not up for debate is what the market did over the last 2 weeks. The threat of tariffs on Mexico came out of the blue. If you had that information a day or two before he tweeted it, could you have made some money?
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
Absolutely. But, how would you prove it?
I think of it like the mafia using runners to place bets on fixed sporting events. Laying bets at different casinos in Vegas.
The Commish
Footballguy
Great. None of this was patt of the post i replied to.
you guys can have that discussion. Go for it. Seems like something to heavily investigate after he's out of office
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Gopher State
Footballguy
Still our number one buyer of American corn. You don’t like farmers?
KCitons
Footballguy
You said Trump would use the threat of tariffs if he needed to push his narrative.Great. None of this was patt of the post i replied to.
you guys can have that discussion. Go for it. Seems like something to heavily investigate after he's out of office
What if his sole intention isn't to push a narrative, but to manipulate the stock market? All of a sudden the erratic things he's done make a lot more sense.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Gopher State
Footballguy
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Some of you would be very impressed with accurately guessing sports scores from yesterday.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Sure since he is screwing them over with China?
Are we supposed to give him credit for not screwing them with Mexico too?
Gopher State
Footballguy
Agreed China is a bad deal, but at least we are making it right for our farmers with Mexico. We need every market open for our farmers
sho nuff
Footballguy
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Gopher State
Footballguy
No one is saying he made it right, but he didn’t cut another market off for our farmers. You would be shocked how many farmers tell me that China was stealing our GMO seed technology, and support Trump. However farmers are a minority in terms of voters, not many left.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
It goes without saying that the the vast majority of people you think are afraid of illegal aliens are in favor of stricter borders. I can't imagine someone taking the "we need to protect the border, but let's keep/make the border laws lax" stance.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
We are talking about migrants here who are legally seeking asylum, not illegal immigrants who are attempting to cross the border without papers. I realize it’s easy to confuse the two because President Trump conflates them but they are not the same.
Gotta think the conversation went something like this:
Mexican official 1: Trump’s people are on the phone. They want us to make an offer to avoid the tariffs.
Mexican official 2: Oh don’t bother, he’s just bluffing. His own party doesn’t want him to do it, no way he goes through with it.
Official 1: Think about who we’re talking about, of course he’ll go through with it. I think we should offer him something small, so he can claim he won.
Official 2: Good idea, but what?
Official 1: How about all the things we already agreed to do a few months ago but never announced?
Official 2: I like it! But don’t you think someone will tell him we were gonna do that anyway?
Official 1: Nah they don’t tell him anything. I’m gonna make the offer.
...
Official 1: So they said yes before I even finished.
Official 2: Oh come on...
Official 1: Quick have someone go on social media and make it look like we agreed to do something new!
Mexican official 1: Trump’s people are on the phone. They want us to make an offer to avoid the tariffs.
Mexican official 2: Oh don’t bother, he’s just bluffing. His own party doesn’t want him to do it, no way he goes through with it.
Official 1: Think about who we’re talking about, of course he’ll go through with it. I think we should offer him something small, so he can claim he won.
Official 2: Good idea, but what?
Official 1: How about all the things we already agreed to do a few months ago but never announced?
Official 2: I like it! But don’t you think someone will tell him we were gonna do that anyway?
Official 1: Nah they don’t tell him anything. I’m gonna make the offer.
...
Official 1: So they said yes before I even finished.
Official 2: Oh come on...
Official 1: Quick have someone go on social media and make it look like we agreed to do something new!
Especially when Trump was the one to curtail that trade with tariff threats. About 3 times in talks with China he claimed they were going to buy more U S agricultural products. Sooner or later you’d think the market would say fooled me 3 times shame on you. But at times the brokers and commodity groups seem to be as naive as Trump’s supporters.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Mexico is already the no. 2 consumer of American Ag products. We should praise our leader for not setting a whole market on fire?
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That one guy
Footballguy
What’s the validity of the secret talks months ago and most of these terms being agreed to then? What is meant by secret and who/what/how are they being exposed now? Because it reads as though top officials of the admin made agreements with a foreign entity and just didn’t tell boss man about it; or it reads as a publicity stunt from the start, where everything was already known and the outcome agreed to long ago. Neither of those perceived options is a great look, I’d say the former being the worst.
shader
Footballguy
There’s a cynical and non-cynical way to look at it. I bet you can guess who will choose each path. This is partisan politics, choose a side and support no matter what.
The Commish
Footballguy
Why can't manipulating the stock market be part of his narrative?
There was good discussion in this thread early on about that insider trading angle. Wouldn't be surprised if something turns up one day.
KCitons
Footballguy
Yeah. That's what I've been saying all along. You just started arguing with yourself. I read "his narrative" as being border protection.
My impression of Trump makes me think he puts money first, his ego second, and everything else third. If he can get to first two to align he'll take it every time. If he has to choose between them, he will take the money every time.
The Commish
Footballguy
Show me the non cynical version. I see one of two possibilities. 1. People were making deals the president didn't ask for and didn't bother to tell him about. 2. His typical grandstanding bull#### we all know and have seen several times now
So it's either complete dysfunction or SSDD
The Commish
Footballguy
I'm not arguing with myself. I didn't limit the definition of narrative you did. That has nothing to do with me.
And my opinion is he takes the ego stroke above all else. He wants top beer liked and adored above all. When he comes out and does something that he knows is going to hurt him with his base and doesn't feel the need to make up some absurd story to justify it because he's making boatloads then i might buy into your order above
KCitons
Footballguy
What do you think Trump is going to do after his term is over?
Looking at past Presidents, I don't see him acting the same way. He will return the business world. He has things he wants to accomplish, beyond being POTUS. Money will be the only thing that will fuel those accomplishments. Based on his past history of bankruptcies, failure to pay, etc. I think money is his #1 priority right now. Money is what feeds his ego. Not the other way around.
timschochet
Footballguy
Strongly disagree here. I think fame and self promotion are far more important:
When Trump stops being President, assuming for the moment he is not in legal jeopardy, I believe he will, unlike every modern former President before him, try to involve himself completely in the actions of whoever takes over after him, especially if it is a Democrat. I think Trump will tweet every day. He will try to be a kingmaker among Republicans.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
The only shocking thing about all of this is that Trump didn't give New Mexico back to them.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Unshockingly both sides, conservative and liberal, are portraying this wrong. Conservatives were wrong in thinking new ground was gained. And liberals are wrong in thinking no new action is being taken. Both sides are exaggerating bigly. Trump threatened tariffs asking Mexico to actually DO the things it agreed to previously. No it's not some groundbreaking development but it's not nothing either if they're actually going to finally do it. But people gonna keep on pooping on each other here no matter what.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
Major win for the U.S. In return for Trump’s capitulation on tariffs, Mexico has agreed to cede us the territories comprising all of California, Nevada, and Utah, as well as parts of Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Colorado, and Wyoming.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Geopolitically using economic weapons to generate domestic political goals is a problem in itself. At some point if we abuse our power as world leader other nations around the world won't respect us and might just start looking for other leaders. I think it's extremely risky and not a matter of pooping.
I'll add that we are encouraging increased nationalism on our southern border. We are supremely blessed with peaceful neighbors, how much longer is an ally like this going to take being pushed around like this in a public fashion? Obrador is a populist himself, it could get worse.
I've been trying to read this as objectively as possible, what am I missing? How many people come to America illegally from Central America through Mexico? How many more will this stop given the agreement that was already in place? Mexico is already our no. 2 Ag customer. - How is this agreement different from what was already in place without this public humiliation of our friends to the south?
Trump is constantly being risky with our goodwill and capital IMO.
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