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Yogibear

Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2019: Finalists

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Well, the list of finalists for the Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2019 was announced last night.  Here's the list of 15 candidates:

Steve Atwater

Champ Bailey

Tony Boselli

Isaac Bruce

Don Coryell

Alan Faneca

Tom Flores

Tony Gonzalez

Steve Hutchinson

Edgerrin James

Ty Law

John Lynch

Kevin Mawae

Ed Reed

Richard Seymour

Now, keep in mind that Johnny Robinson is the Senior Finalist and Pat Bowlen and Gil Brandt are the Contributor Finalists.  Out of this list of 15 names, the 2 that stick out the most are Tony Gonzalez and Ed Reed.  Who on this list has the best chance to get into Canton this year?

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Yeah, no question that Gonzalez and Reed are all but guaranteed. I think Champ Bailey is very likely to make it in, too. After that, I'm not sure, although I do think Atwater and Bruce have decent shots.

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Hutchinson have a shot? It’s hard to grade OL but for 6 straight years he was the best at his position and was 1st team All Pro from pretty much every source.

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Lock - Gonzo and Reed

I'd vote for him - hutch, champ Bailey, Faneca

On the fence - Atwater, Lynch

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6 hours ago, Yogibear said:

Don Coryell

Deserves some credit for the modern NFL. He won in St. Louis and San Diego when Dallas, Washington & Oakland dominated.

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Posted (edited)

I posted in the semifinalist thread that I would choose this class:

  • Champ Bailey
  • Ronde Barber
  • Don Coryell
  • Tony Gonzalez
  • Ed Reed
  • senior nominee - Johnny Robinson
  • contributor - Pat Bowlen
  • contributor - Gil Brandt

Barber is surprisingly not a finalist. In that same post, I stated that these individuals were in my next tier:

  • Tony Boselli
  • Isaac Bruce
  • Alan Faneca
  • Torry Holt
  • Jimmy Johnson

Of this group, Holt and Johnson are also not finalists. I would be fine with any of the other three in Barber's place, but I will choose Bruce. So this is my class:

  • Champ Bailey
  • Isaac Bruce
  • Don Coryell
  • Tony Gonzalez
  • Ed Reed
  • senior nominee - Johnny Robinson
  • contributor - Pat Bowlen
  • contributor - Gil Brandt

 

Edited by Just Win Baby
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Without researching, I believe Tom Flores is the only coach with multiple Super Bowl titles to be left out of the Hall of Fame. His overall body of work (9 years with Oakland/L.A., 3 with Seattle) looks more like "solid" than "Hall of Famer", though.

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11 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

So this is my class:

  • Champ Bailey
  • Isaac Bruce
  • Don Coryell
  • Tony Gonzalez
  • Ed Reed
  • senior nominee - Johnny Robinson
  • contributor - Pat Bowlen
  • contributor - Gil Brandt

 

This is my list too, though I'm not convinced Bowlen really rises to the level of HOF. But I think once a contributor nominee gets this far, they usually get in.

As others say, Reed and Gonzo are clear first ballot guys - both are in the conversation for the best EVER at their position, which makes you first ballot material. And Bailey was the best CB of his generation - certainly the best since Deion and Rod Woodson, and first-team All-2000s.

Coryell is sadly overlooked and should have been in years ago. For the last spot, I could argue Faneca over Bruce but I think this year gives them a chance to start clearing the WR backlog of deserving candidates at that position. Still top 5 in receiving yards all-time, 10 years after retiring? That's HOF material

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my class:

Champ Bailey

Steve Atwater

Don Coryell

Tony Gonzalez

Ed Reed

senior nominee - Johnny Robinson

contributor - Pat Bowlen

contributor - Gil Brandt

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1 hour ago, The_Man said:

This is my list too, though I'm not convinced Bowlen really rises to the level of HOF. But I think once a contributor nominee gets this far, they usually get in.

Curious as to why you believe this?  7 Super Bowls since 1984 - 3 wins - 18 AFC West titles - over 350 wins in the franchise during his time. The only owner in NFL history to win 300 games in his first 30 years. Key contributor to the TV committee that setup the record amounts for TV contracts - brought in Fox and set up Sunday Night football rights with NBC. (https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/8/10/16122392/pat-bowlen-nfl-tv-dominance . ) 

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49 minutes ago, ffldrew said:

Curious as to why you believe this?  7 Super Bowls since 1984 - 3 wins - 18 AFC West titles - over 350 wins in the franchise during his time. The only owner in NFL history to win 300 games in his first 30 years. Key contributor to the TV committee that setup the record amounts for TV contracts - brought in Fox and set up Sunday Night football rights with NBC. (https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/8/10/16122392/pat-bowlen-nfl-tv-dominance . ) 

I just don’t think a guy owning a team for a long time  = HOF. Would the history of the NFL be materially different if some other rich guy had owned the team all those years? People here in Baltimore make the case all the time for Art Modell. And he was the guy who basically invented Monday Night Football and shepherded the AFL-NFL merger. And my response to them is pretty much the same. Who cares? Just don’t think owners, except in very rare cases, merit the Hall 

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1 hour ago, Doug B said:

Without researching, I believe Tom Flores is the only coach with multiple Super Bowl titles to be left out of the Hall of Fame. His overall body of work (9 years with Oakland/L.A., 3 with Seattle) looks more like "solid" than "Hall of Famer", though.

I am very surprised Flores is a finalist, and I don't think he deserves serious consideration.

The following coaches have won exactly 2 Super Bowls and are not currently in the HOF: Jimmy Johnson, Shanahan, Coughlin, Seifert, and Flores.

The following coaches have won 1 Super Bowl and are still active and thus could join that group: Carroll, Payton, Tomlin, Harbaugh, McCarthy, and Pederson.

How many of these guys is it reasonable to expect to make the HOF? I would rank Flores 4th among the 5 in the first group, ahead of only Seifert. Harder to rank him among the active coaches, since they aren't done, but I would definitely rank Carroll and Payton higher than Flores. And Coryell won no Super Bowls, but he is more deserving than all of them IMO.

Flores' resume is essentially based on 3 things:

  1. 2 Super Bowl wins
  2. A very successful 9 season stretch coaching the Raiders
  3. "First Hispanic" achievements.

#1 and #2 are somewhat mitigated by the fact that he took over for Madden, who was 56-16 over the previous 5 seasons, winning a Super Bowl and making it to 3 other AFCCGs.

Those are also both somewhat mitigated by the fact he chose to coach the Seahawks for 3 seasons to a disastrous 14-34 record, taking over for Chuck Knox, who had never finished worse than 7-9 in 9 years as Seattle HC. His HOF case would be much stronger if he never took another coaching job after the Raiders.

That is a weak resume for a HOF finalist. I could see him making it based on #3, but, unlike with Dungy, I am not aware of any real groundswell of support for Flores for that reason.

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Posted (edited)
  • Atwater
  • Champ
  • Lynch
  • Law
  • Bowlen

possible to have 5 former Broncos making it into the Hall at the same time.  Awesome.  I'd obviously have to come up to Canton if that happened.

Realistically, I see four locks:

  • Gonzalez
  • Reed
  • Bailey
  • Reed

I'm on the fence with a few.  The following are who I think should get in either this year or eventually, in my preferred order:

  • Atwater - not just as a former bronco, he started in 3 SB's, winning 2.  Should have been MVP of XXII.  1st team all 90's team, 8 pro bowls, 2x All-pro.  Tons of great highlights.
  • Hutchinson - first team all 2000's team, 7 pro bowls, 5x all-pro. started in 1 pro-bowl.  blocked for league leading rusher Shaun Alexander and Adrian Peterson (although ADP's 2k season was after Hutch left the vikes.).
  • Seymour: 1st team all 2000's.  7 pro-bowls, 3x all-pro.  played in 4 SBs. 
  • Lynch
  • Faneca
Edited by moleculo

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28 minutes ago, The_Man said:

I just don’t think a guy owning a team for a long time  = HOF. Would the history of the NFL be materially different if some other rich guy had owned the team all those years? People here in Baltimore make the case all the time for Art Modell. And he was the guy who basically invented Monday Night Football and shepherded the AFL-NFL merger. And my response to them is pretty much the same. Who cares? Just don’t think owners, except in very rare cases, merit the Hall  

Pat Bowlen > Jerry Jones.  If they let Jones in, Bowlen should be a lock.

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It will be interesting as the years go by how many former Pats get in. Obviously TB and BB will make it and likely Kraft. As far as players go, not sure who else. Moss made it, but he wasn’t exactly a main cog in NE’s run. I am generally kicker adverse in terms of HOF induction, but I guess Vinatiei might be the next guy highest on the list. Guys like Law and Seymour might get in eventually through the Senior Committee. 

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6 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Deserves some credit for the modern NFL. He won in St. Louis and San Diego when Dallas, Washington & Oakland dominated.

While Coryell certainly deserves credit for his innovative offenses, its hard for me to see a coach who never came close to a Super Bowl getting in. 

I'll never understand the case for Bruce. Probably 20 WR's between 1990-2018 I'd rank ahead of him. Guy was the very definition of a compiler. Don't really see a case for Edge either. Maybe if he hadn't shredded his knee, but he basically has 4 really good years, 1 ok year, and 4 pretty poor years. Like Bruce, there are a bunch of more deserving candidates just from the time frame. 

Faneca, Hutchinson, Reed, Gonzalez, and Robinson should be locks. Seymour should be in my eyes, but he was always underrated during his career, I feel that may not change now. Bailey, Mawae, Boselli, and Bowlen all deserve it as well, though maybe not this year in Boselli and Mawae's case. 

Atwater and Lynch are more hall of very good types to me. It doesn't help either case that Safeties tend to have to wait for the HOF, and with Dawkins last year, Reed this year, and Polamalu coming up, it might be a long wait, if ever.

Law and Flores also fit into my hall of very good, where I don't see either making it unless it is a very lean year, or possibly eventually on the senior committee in Flores case. 

On the flip side of my Isaac Bruce opinion, I will never understand why Zach Thomas doesn't even make it to the finalist round. I say this as a Bears fan, I think Thomas>Urlacher. Thomas was such a sure tacker and had unbelievable instincts. Is it the lack of a Super Bowl appearance? After Ray Lewis, I would call Thomas the best LB of the last 25 years. 

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25 minutes ago, travdogg said:

I'll never understand the case for Bruce... Guy was the very definition of a compiler.

I'll respond to this the same way I did last time you posted this.

A "compiler and nothing more" doesn't do any of the following:

  • Play a notable role in one of the greatest offenses of all time
  • Have one of the few best single WR seasons of all time: 119 receptions (12th highest single season total of all time), 1781 receiving yards (5th highest single season total of all time), and 13 TDs (and with Chris Miller and Mark Rypien at QB)
  • Have 7 other 1000 yard seasons, including seasons with 1471, 1338, and 1292 yards
  • Catch the game winning TD with less than 2 minutes remaining in the Super Bowl

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30 minutes ago, travdogg said:

Don't really see a case for Edge either. Maybe if he hadn't shredded his knee, but he basically has 4 really good years, 1 ok year, and 4 pretty poor years. Like Bruce, there are a bunch of more deserving candidates just from the time frame.

Players in NFL history that have had 4 seasons with 1,500 yards rushing: Barry Sanders (5), Walter Payton, Eric Dickerson, and Edgerrin James. Also 1 of 7 players with 2,000 yards from scrimmage in 3 different seasons. Top 15 all time in yards from scrimmage. That's more than like 43 other players already in the HOF. Not sure why Edge is universally viewed with disdain in the Shark Pool. Not saying he is a slam dunk HOFer, but he should at least be considered for induction.

 

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12 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

I'll respond to this the same way I did last time you posted this.

A "compiler and nothing more" doesn't do any of the following:

  • Play a notable role in one of the greatest offenses of all time
  • Have one of the few best single WR seasons of all time: 119 receptions (12th highest single season total of all time), 1781 receiving yards (5th highest single season total of all time), and 13 TDs (and with Chris Miller and Mark Rypien at QB)
  • Have 7 other 1000 yard seasons, including seasons with 1471, 1338, and 1292 yards
  • Catch the game winning TD with less than 2 minutes remaining in the Super Bowl

When he retired, Bruce was #2 all-time in NFL receiving yards, behind Jerry Rice. In the decade since, only Randy Moss, TO and Larry Fitzgerald have passed him - two of the all-time best WRs, plus another HOFer. The only active players with even a realistic shot at knocking him out of the top 5 are Antonio Brown, who is 4,000 yards behind, and Julio Jones, who is 4,500 yards behind.

So he retired as the #2 yardage WR in NFL history, and is going to remain in the Top 5 of that category for a dozen+ years, even as passing stats continue to explode. To me, if you retire in the Top 3 of an all-time yardage stat - receiving, passing, or rushing - you belong in the Hall of Fame.

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Dawkins getting in last year makes Ed Reed a lock. 

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6 minutes ago, Insein said:

Dawkins getting in last year makes Ed Reed a lock. 

I loved Dawkins' game, but his selection has no influence on Reed. He's as sure-fire a first ballot selection as there is:

  • 2004 Defensive Player of the Year
  • All-NFL team of the 2000s selection
  • 6th on the all-time regular season INT list
  • 1st on the all-time post-season INT list
  • 1st in career multi-INT games
  • 1st all-time in INT return yards
  • Longest INT return for TD in NFL history
  • 1st (tied) for career blocked punts returned for TD
  • 9 Pro Bowls

He was also the first person in NFL history to return an interception, punt, blocked punt, and fumble for a touchdown. 

 

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6 minutes ago, The_Man said:

I loved Dawkins' game, but his selection has no influence on Reed. He's as sure-fire a first ballot selection as there is:

  • 2004 Defensive Player of the Year
  • All-NFL team of the 2000s selection
  • 6th on the all-time regular season INT list
  • 1st on the all-time post-season INT list
  • 1st in career multi-INT games
  • 1st all-time in INT return yards
  • Longest INT return for TD in NFL history
  • 1st (tied) for career blocked punts returned for TD
  • 9 Pro Bowls

He was also the first person in NFL history to return an interception, punt, blocked punt, and fumble for a touchdown. 

 

I think those were the only four times he didn't lateral 😉

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45 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

I'll respond to this the same way I did last time you posted this.

A "compiler and nothing more" doesn't do any of the following:

  • Play a notable role in one of the greatest offenses of all time
  • Have one of the few best single WR seasons of all time: 119 receptions (12th highest single season total of all time), 1781 receiving yards (5th highest single season total of all time), and 13 TDs (and with Chris Miller and Mark Rypien at QB)
  • Have 7 other 1000 yard seasons, including seasons with 1471, 1338, and 1292 yards
  • Catch the game winning TD with less than 2 minutes remaining in the Super Bowl

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on Bruce, it is absolutely an argument that has happened before.

30 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Players in NFL history that have had 4 seasons with 1,500 yards rushing: Barry Sanders (5), Walter Payton, Eric Dickerson, and Edgerrin James. Also 1 of 7 players with 2,000 yards from scrimmage in 3 different seasons. Top 15 all time in yards from scrimmage. That's more than like 43 other players already in the HOF. Not sure why Edge is universally viewed with disdain in the Shark Pool. Not saying he is a slam dunk HOFer, but he should at least be considered for induction.

 

Priest Holmes had 3 straight seasons over 2,100 yards from scrimmage, and 66 TD's in a 3 year stretch. Despite that, he doesn't get a mention ever in HOF consideration. 

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22 minutes ago, The_Man said:

I loved Dawkins' game, but his selection has no influence on Reed. He's as sure-fire a first ballot selection as there is:

  • 2004 Defensive Player of the Year
  • All-NFL team of the 2000s selection
  • 6th on the all-time regular season INT list
  • 1st on the all-time post-season INT list
  • 1st in career multi-INT games
  • 1st all-time in INT return yards
  • Longest INT return for TD in NFL history
  • 1st (tied) for career blocked punts returned for TD
  • 9 Pro Bowls

He was also the first person in NFL history to return an interception, punt, blocked punt, and fumble for a touchdown. 

 

No doubt. I was just mentioning that because Safeties have been notoriously ignored by the HOF committee. With no Dawkins in, there might have been some pause. Absolutely no chance he doesn't get in now.

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4 minutes ago, travdogg said:

Priest Holmes had 3 straight seasons over 2,100 yards from scrimmage, and 66 TD's in a 3 year stretch. Despite that, he doesn't get a mention ever in HOF consideration. 

Holmes only ranks 78th in YFS though. A more similar player to Edge in terms of rushing/receiving totals would by Tiki Barber, who actually has 22 YFS more than Edge does. The problem for James is Barber isn't going to get a ton of support given that he walked away from the game after also posting back-to-back-to-back 2,000+ seasons.

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1 hour ago, Insein said:

No doubt. I was just mentioning that because Safeties have been notoriously ignored by the HOF committee. With no Dawkins in, there might have been some pause. Absolutely no chance he doesn't get in now.

Brian Dawkins was great, but Reed was going in first-ballot even if Dawkins had never been born. There would be no "pause". There won't be when Polomalu comes up either, even if the two prior never existed.

Ed Reed is one of the strangest all-time greats I've ever followed. The stuff he excelled at, no one else really did like him. He wasn't a thumper, yet he wasn't a great one-on-one cover guy either. He had to have had more turnovers committed than any Safety in history (by that, I mean he turned the ball BACK over after taking it away).

And yet....... he was brilliant. Coach Hoodie would have an orgasm talking about Reed, with Giselle's husband not far behind. . He ruined more Ravens' opponents than any single player they ever had.  The Ravens' defense got a lot of credit for far longer than they should have because teams were terrified of Ed Reed (Lewis had been slipping for a long time).

Even stranger was/is his personality. He looks like one of the Hatfields or McCoys, and I'm convinced his dream home would be a shack in a bayou where he gutted gators for dinner. He had swagger, but it never seemed "look at me" (like his teammate at LB). I didn't watch Ray Lewis' HOF speech, because he bores me. But I'll watch Reed's.

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Congrats to this year's class: Ed Reed, Champ Bailey, Ty Law, Johnny Robinson, Tony Gonzalez, Kevin Mawae, Pat Bowlen, and Gil Brandt.

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37 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Congrats to this year's class: Ed Reed, Champ Bailey, Ty Law, Johnny Robinson, Tony Gonzalez, Kevin Mawae, Pat Bowlen, and Gil Brandt.

I'll second that.

Disappointed some did not get in but the best way I've seen HOF voters counter that is to show the list of names on the ballot and ask anyone who is trying to make a stink about someone not making  it with the question of " which players should NOT get in".  Just a well deserving group.

Most of all happy to see class  back in vogue.  Reed saying stuff like he'd give up his spot for Atwater. Ty Law last year saying  last year when he came up a bit short that being a finalist made him one of the top 315 players of all time and that was a pretty big honor.

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All are deserving inductions, I wish the members inductions per year were expanded to 7 or 8.  Football unlike the other sports has much more players on the field.  To limit a class to 5 players plus a seniors nominee is too tight for my liking. Maybe they could have a non players vote every x years similar to baseball and that would be less players that have to wait even longer. I find that many of the seniors nominees are guys that the writers tended to forget as new toys are out every year and recycled players are cast aside too easily with this tight criteria.

Edited by Csonka4life

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3 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

Congrats to this year's class: Ed Reed, Champ Bailey, Ty Law, Johnny Robinson, Tony Gonzalez, Kevin Mawae, Pat Bowlen, and Gil Brandt.

I'm surprised Law made it this year, especially with 3 other DB's making it. I would have thought one of Faneca/Hutchinson would have gotten that last spot. 

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I can now say I've played on the same field as an NFL Hall of Famer.

Mawae was a Sophomore when I was a Senior in HS.

 

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Hov34 said:

I can now say I've played on the same field as an NFL Hall of Famer.

Mawae was a Sophomore when I was a Senior in HS.

Did he blow up every play in high school? Or did he bloom later in high school?

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Csonka4life said:

Did he blow up every play in high school? Or did he bloom later in high school?

Didn't even start his sophomore year.  Was tall and skinny.  Left HS probably around 240 lbs.  LSU redshirted him and I think he gained about 40 lbs of muscle.  Smart guy and really nice.

 

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Wow a late bloomer, I remember there was a guy who was ROY in the CFL the cycle before I went to my high school and he was superman when he played  tailback, but running back is one of the easiest positions to learn.

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19 hours ago, menobrown said:

Disappointed some did not get in but the best way I've seen HOF voters counter that is to show the list of names on the ballot and ask anyone who is trying to make a stink about someone not making  it with the question of " which players should NOT get in".  Just a well deserving group.

I don’t think Mawae deserves to make the HOF.

I had Law in my third tier of semi-finalists and I think he is borderline. I would have chosen several others over him. 

Very disappointed that Coryell continues to be overlooked.

Edited by Just Win Baby

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1 hour ago, babydemon90 said:

Yea my only ?? is Law over Faneca or Hutch. 

I was good with it.  Law was a dominant corner, and a cornerstone of the Patriots defense.

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"Be a gentleman when you win; be a man when you lose. If you lose, hurt so bad that you work harder so that it won't happen again. Prepare, sacrifice, and give your best. Bring out the best in others, have faith in the Lord, and always respect your mother." -Johnny Robinson

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