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VA Gov. Ralph Northam Yearbook Photo - LG and AG Scandals Too (1 Viewer)

timschochet said:
As I wrote I believed Ford and still do. It sure sounds like I will believe this woman as well. 

There have been a couple of statements in this thread that I can’t find any confirmation of elsewhere. The main one is that Fairfax has admitted to knowing his accuser and having had consensual sex with her. Is there a link to that? 
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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/virginia-lt-gov-fairfax-denies-sexual-assault-allegation-northam-faces-n966671

 
jon_mx said:
So much good material to choose from:

"Good LORD it's pathetic how low people will stoop to defend anything anyone in their party does."
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Again this isn’t applying to much of anyone...nobody is defending him and are calling for investigation of necessary.

Seems the other side that defended Kavanaugh no matter what wouldn’t want their posts repeated here or we would see actual hypocrisy.

 
squistion said:
Of course not, I have see what she has to say, what proof she has, what contemporaneous reports there were and what fact checkers have verified. I didn't believe Ford just based on her going public, it was not until after I viewed her sworn testimony at the hearing.
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I dont think this word means what you think it means. 

 
sho nuff said:
Again this isn’t applying to much of anyone...nobody is defending him and are calling for investigation of necessary.

Seems the other side that defended Kavanaugh no matter what wouldn’t want their posts repeated here or we would see actual hypocrisy.
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Feel free to post any of mine.   

 
zftcg said:
Point is, it's a huge pet peeve of mine that I've noticed a certain type of conservative who doesn't care at all about issues like racism and sexual assault, unless they can cynically exploit them to bash liberals for hypocrisy
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Stealthycat said:
Look, either crucify Fairfax right now and believe the woman and her accusations or just say its a double standard because you want to see Fairfax in politics and his position and you don't want to believe what as of right now is a he said she said. Which isn't how Kavanaugh was treated by Democrats but hey, admit the double standard and hypocrisy and own it right ?
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See, that's exactly what I was talking about, Thanks, SC! I knew you wouldn't let me down!

Show of hands: Who here thinks SC give's a rat's a## about the well-being of this woman and is actually upset at what may have happened to her, as opposed to viewing her as a handy partisan cudgel?

(And just for the record: I've only heard a few sketchy details about the Fairfax allegation, but if as more comes out it appears to be a credible accusation then of course I think he should resign. That's because if a man sexually assaults a woman, it offends me deeply regardless of whether I agree with his politics. I wouldn't want someone like that representing my state, my party or my gender. And even before all the facts are know, no one should go around seeking to undermine the woman by saying that she's lying or delusional or confused him with someone else.)

 
squistion said:
You either find her credible or you don't. I did.

If a woman is making a sexual assault allegation against a public figure, then she must be willing to put her name to it and come forward for us to judge her credibility, like Ford did. Otherwise it is just an unsubstantiated allegation and no better than an anonymous source.
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I don't have any hard and fast rules for judging these things (and God help us all if I ever have to judge so many assault allegations that I need to come up with hard and fast rules). My standard is "Based on the information I have, what do I think is most likely to have happened?" I really don't have enough info at this point to make a judgment one way or another, although I will say I haven't heard anything about her story to make me think the allegation is not true, whereas a couple of things he has done have raised my eyebrows (especially the false claim that the Post found inconsistencies in her story).

 
timschochet said:
So with regards to Fairfax: according to what I've been able to read here

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/04/us/politics/justin-fairfax-sexual-assault.html

After he won election in 2017 a woman contacted the Washington Post and said he had sexually assaulted her at the 2004 Democratic National Election. The Post could find no corroborating evidence so they refused to report the story (however, in Fairfax's statement this morning he asserted that the Post found inconsistencies in her story, and the Post did not.)

Now the same right wing website that revealed the Klan photo has reported this story, which Fairfax strenuously denies.

And this creates a great problem for Democrats. If it's one woman, and it's a "he said she said" situation, they can't demand Fairfax step down if he insists he's innocent. But what if the woman is willing to go on TV and she sounds credible? It was only 3 months ago that a bunch of prominent Democrats, including the two main candidates in the Presidential race, demanded that Brett Kavanaugh be voted down mainly due to the accusations of one woman. I bought into that at the time; I believed Christine Blasey Ford.  So what if this accuser is just as credible?

Only a few hours ago Democrats were looking at Fairfax as their savior in Virginia to this Northup mess; he's young, he's black, the Presidential candidates can campaign with him in Virginia (a state they have to win) and the whole Northup drama would be erased. Now? What a mess. 
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Christine Blakey Ford had corroborating evidence and multiple witnesses.  It wasn’t simply he said-she said.  

 
tommyGunZ said:
Christine Blakey Ford had corroborating evidence and multiple witnesses.  It wasn’t simply he said-she said.  
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what exactly were these guys going to testify to?

Unless 'm mistaken, they were going to testify under oath that they had absolutely no recollection of anything.

Strong witnesses. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
what exactly were these guys going to testify to?

Unless 'm mistaken, they were going to testify under oath that they had absolutely no recollection of anything.

Strong witnesses. 
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I’m referring to Ford having witnesses to testify that she told them about the attempted rape prior to Kavanaugh being nominated to the Court.  

 
tommyGunZ said:
Christine Blakey Ford had corroborating evidence and multiple witnesses.  It wasn’t simply he said-she said.  
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Maybe she did and maybe she didn’t. Those points are debatable. 

I found her believable and trustworthy, that’s the main reason I believed her. If she had had nobody but herself I still would have believed her. 

In this situation I know absolutely nothing about this woman, including her name, other than a few lines from a Washington Post article. So I can’t tell you that I find her believable. What I CAN tell you is that in each and every one of these situations I begin with the assumption that the accuser is probably telling the truth because the price is too high. 

 
That story I just posted may or may not be true, but either way it should be proof to anyone who is paying attention that Fox is guilty of slanting their stories. The headline reads “Fairfax suggests Northam behind leaked sexual assault” But if you read the story, it reveals that Fairfax was asked a question about this by a reporter and he refused to rule it out. That in itself is problematic but it’s not the same as the headline. Awful of Fox, but quite typical. 

 
timschochet said:
And now if Fox News is to be believed (always a caveat I admit) Fairfax wont rule out that Northam might be behind the leak AND he is threatening to sue the Washington Post: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/politics/lt-gov-justin-fairfax-suggests-gov-northam-behind-leaked-sexual-assault-allegation.amp

This may have just gotten even uglier. 
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Northam didn't discredit the ads ran against Gillespie accusing him of being a racist.  I'm no Ed Gillespie fan, but racist isn't something I'd accuse him of.  That ad was pretty awful.   So we have that to go on, we have the fact he at the very least hid this photo all these years.....  I guess I preface with that to say that I wouldn't be surprised if Northam was behind the Fairfax story leak.  But I don't mean that to single out Northam.  Given what it takes to get elected now, we should pretty much expect people to be able to start and win knife fights when it comes to these things.

 
timschochet said:
That story I just posted may or may not be true, but either way it should be proof to anyone who is paying attention that Fox is guilty of slanting their stories. The headline reads “Fairfax suggests Northam behind leaked sexual assault” But if you read the story, it reveals that Fairfax was asked a question about this by a reporter and he refused to rule it out. That in itself is problematic but it’s not the same as the headline. Awful of Fox, but quite typical. 
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I think this is more of a stain on MSM. Fox is bad about it, but lets not say other media outlets are above it.  FLR, I don't care much about this story, I care more about the standard it continues to set. 

 
Shula-holic said:
Northam didn't discredit the ads ran against Gillespie accusing him of being a racist.  I'm no Ed Gillespie fan, but racist isn't something I'd accuse him of.  That ad was pretty awful.   So we have that to go on, we have the fact he at the very least hid this photo all these years.....  I guess I preface with that to say that I wouldn't be surprised if Northam was behind the Fairfax story leak.  But I don't mean that to single out Northam.  Given what it takes to get elected now, we should pretty much expect people to be able to start and win knife fights when it comes to these things.
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If Northam is behind this he’s an even bigger idiot than I thought. I doubt there’s a single person who thinks Northam should resign that would change their mind if Fairfax has to go too. 

 
Max Power said:
I think this is more of a stain on MSM. Fox is bad about it, but lets not say other media outlets are above it.  FLR, I don't care much about this story, I care more about the standard it continues to set. 
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Fox News is not normally considered part of the MSM, and they seem quite proud of the distinction. 

 
timschochet said:
Fox News is not normally considered part of the MSM, and they seem quite proud of the distinction. 
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I agree, I'm not a supporter of fox news either.  They reach more than CNN.  CNN has layups these days, but its not like both side aren't disingenuous.  I've been anti-media for years and now I'm stuck in this gray area where I don't even know who to trust until 3 days later when the real (vetted) news comes out. 

 
Max Power said:
I agree, I'm not a supporter of fox news either.  They reach more than CNN.  CNN has layups these days, but its not like both side aren't disingenuous.  I've been anti-media for years and now I'm stuck in this gray area where I don't even know who to trust until 3 days later when the real (vetted) news comes out. 
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I still think that when it comes to the majors, and I include Fox, you can trust the story. You can’t trust the headline, and you can’t trust the opinion shows or anything that is “reported” on those shows. But when a story is reported you can trust that. 

 
timschochet said:
I still think that when it comes to the majors, and I include Fox, you can trust the story. You can’t trust the headline, and you can’t trust the opinion shows or anything that is “reported” on those shows. But when a story is reported you can trust that. 
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I can't trust the headlines, but the content is correct?  I'm not sure I understand your point here.

I think the media is in such a hurry to be first that they sacrifice facts.  This is what leads people down the paths of conspiracy theories or "facebook" reporting.  I know this is off topic for the subject, but I still feel that way.  Today more than ever, people choose what news to believe.  I think this could lead to our downfall. 

 
And through all of the hypocrisy the POTUS who has been accused by what, 22 women of some sorts of sexual misconduct? just skips merrily along. That is the true hypocrisy of all. 

 
zftcg said:
See, that's exactly what I was talking about, Thanks, SC! I knew you wouldn't let me down!

Show of hands: Who here thinks SC give's a rat's a## about the well-being of this woman and is actually upset at what may have happened to her, as opposed to viewing her as a handy partisan cudgel?

(And just for the record: I've only heard a few sketchy details about the Fairfax allegation, but if as more comes out it appears to be a credible accusation then of course I think he should resign. That's because if a man sexually assaults a woman, it offends me deeply regardless of whether I agree with his politics. I wouldn't want someone like that representing my state, my party or my gender. And even before all the facts are know, no one should go around seeking to undermine the woman by saying that she's lying or delusional or confused him with someone else.)
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So you should be appalled at the reaction of Fairfax to use his power to intimidate her with threats of lawsuits for defamation.. 

 
Mile High said:
And through all of the hypocrisy the POTUS who has been accused by what, 22 women of some sorts of sexual misconduct? just skips merrily along. That is the true hypocrisy of all. 
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How you love your whataboutisms when the shoe is on the other foot. 

 
jon_mx said:
So you should be appalled at the reaction of Fairfax to use his power to intimidate her with threats of lawsuits for defamation.. 
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Was that supposed to be some sort of gotcha question? Because of course men accused of sexual assault should not baselessly threaten lawsuits. If Fairfax has  evidence that the woman is deliberately lying in order to damage him, he should produce it. But if he threatened a lawsuit with no intention of following through that's just intimidation. Did you think I wouldn't agree with that?

I honestly think there's a whole lot of projection going on here. Republicans treat these cases as cynical power plays so they just assume Democrats are doing the same thing. But the record is pretty clear. Democrats turned on Northam and Franken, while Republicans stood behind Moore and Trump. Republicans don't complain when Trump uses lawsuit threats as a form of intimidation, so they assume Democrats aren't bothered by it either. 

I understand you're dealing with a lot of cognitive dissonance here, but you'll have to find some other way to rationalize your subconscious guilt.

 
jon_mx said:
Seems like we could just cut and paste posts from the Kavanaugh thread and have a field day...

"Do a lot of women, knowing they're going to be dragged through the mud in the national limelight, make false accusations of traumatic sexual assaults?   Is this really what you think is happening?"
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Well...from one of the "sides" you can....posts made in this thread by the other "side" are conveniently missing from the Kavanaugh thread :shrug:  

 
tommyGunZ said:
I’m referring to Ford having witnesses to testify that she told them about the attempted rape prior to Kavanaugh being nominated to the Court.  
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Yes....still 30 years after the fact and after he became a judge on the Appeals Court in the DC circuit, which is the stepping stone to the Supreme Court.  

 
zftcg said:
Was that supposed to be some sort of gotcha question? Because of course men accused of sexual assault should not baselessly threaten lawsuits. If Fairfax has  evidence that the woman is deliberately lying in order to damage him, he should produce it. But if he threatened a lawsuit with no intention of following through that's just intimidation. Did you think I wouldn't agree with that?

I honestly think there's a whole lot of projection going on here. Republicans treat these cases as cynical power plays so they just assume Democrats are doing the same thing. But the record is pretty clear. Democrats turned on Northam and Franken, while Republicans stood behind Moore and Trump. Republicans don't complain when Trump uses lawsuit threats as a form of intimidation, so they assume Democrats aren't bothered by it either. 

I understand you're dealing with a lot of cognitive dissonance here, but you'll have to find some other way to rationalize your subconscious guilt.
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Really?  Moore lost an election he was heavily favored in, a state which Trump won by 28 points.  So a lot of Republicans do not stand behind them.  Northam has not resigned yet.  I still think there is a decent chance he rides this out. 

Half of Virginia Democrats still approve of Governor Ralph Northam’s job performance despite the recent emergence of a racist photo from his 1984 medical-school-yearbook page, according to a Politico/Morning Consult poll released Monday.

zftcg:  "I honestly think there's a whole lot of projection going on here.......but you'll have to find some other way to rationalize your subconscious guilt."

I agree, you are doing a whole lot of projection. 

 
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Shula-holic said:
What's truly ironic is in Northam's campaign against Ed Gillespie, this ad ran:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/virginia-ad-features-minority-kids-chased-by-truck-with-gillespie-sticker-confederate-flag/2017/10/30/7311fdda-bd6f-11e7-97d9-bdab5a0ab381_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9a70995d30aa
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Buddies of mine and I have been talking about this ad a bit more with the recent news.  This wasn't made by Northam, but rather by a Democratic group.  Northam couldn't really do anything to stop it (I understand that would have been illegal to try).  He also didn't say anything negative about it (and did green light a mailer linking Gillespie to Charlottesville white nationalist deal). 

I get that political races can be messy, but what would have been the appropriate thing for Northam to have done with the above ad?

 
Max Power said:
I can't trust the headlines, but the content is correct?  I'm not sure I understand your point here.

I think the media is in such a hurry to be first that they sacrifice facts.  This is what leads people down the paths of conspiracy theories or "facebook" reporting.  I know this is off topic for the subject, but I still feel that way.  Today more than ever, people choose what news to believe.  I think this could lead to our downfall. 
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And what downfall is that? 

 
parasaurolophus said:
what exactly were these guys going to testify to?

Unless 'm mistaken, they were going to testify under oath that they had absolutely no recollection of anything.

Strong witnesses. 
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We really have no idea what witnesses saw or what they were willing to testify to, because the “investigation” was a sham that was shoved through. Where’s Kavenaugh’s best friend who wrote the book? Where were all the potential witnesses?

 
Sweet J said:
We really have no idea what witnesses saw or what they were willing to testify to, because the “investigation” was a sham that was shoved through. Where’s Kavenaugh’s best friend who wrote the book? Where were all the potential witnesses?
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I just checked Kavanaugh's calendar and it looks like all the witnesses are working out at Tobin's then grabbing some skis.

 
Max Power said:
I can't trust the headlines, but the content is correct?  I'm not sure I understand your point here.

I think the media is in such a hurry to be first that they sacrifice facts.  This is what leads people down the paths of conspiracy theories or "facebook" reporting.  I know this is off topic for the subject, but I still feel that way.  Today more than ever, people choose what news to believe.  I think this could lead to our downfall. 
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C'mon with this. There have been conspiracy theories since there have been conspiracies and it was a well worn path well before this 24/7/365 MSM world we currently live in

 
Sweet J said:
We really have no idea what witnesses saw or what they were willing to testify to, because the “investigation” was a sham that was shoved through. Where’s Kavenaugh’s best friend who wrote the book? Where were all the potential witnesses?
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We all made our arguments re: this stuff in the other thread. I mostly just wanted to post that quote from a few good men. 

 
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