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Robert Kraft (yes, THAT Robert Kraft) charged with soliciting prostitution (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter IvanKaramazov
- Start date
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
(HULK)
(Smash)
I'm not going to have time to dig that up before I'm hitting the road, but I'll try and remember to revisit tomorrow.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
This article chooses a few studies or claims to debunk but doesn't really provide much actual data of its own. I'm fact, there are quite a few claims made in there with no data/evidence at all.
Funny how that one article/op ed is the one posted over and over again as the defense of that side of things.
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me.
In this case because they can get orally serviced by a sex slave near their home and still have plenty of time left to fly to Missouri via private jet to watch their NFL team win a playoff game.
(HULK)
(Smash)
Any of them. Where the police say trafficking in the news but then never charge trafficking. It's common.
They've just implicated a several rich and powerful people here... if this isn't trafficking, expect libel suits out the wazoo, plus whatever else the lawyers can come up with.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
This was the response to your second article (by Markon)
https://www.academia.edu/6086107/Looking_beneath_the_surface_A_response_to_Washington_Posts_attack_on_the_anti-trafficking_movement_in_the_U.S
Henry Ford
Footballguy
(HULK)
(Smash)
About the age sex-workers begin sex work on average?
I don't. And I can't imagine anyone has a reliable number for it.
(HULK)
(Smash)
That was the only part that mentioned the average age when it began. I searched the document.
(HULK)
(Smash)
And I won't. As I stated earlier, I can't imagine an accurate and trust worthy data set exists for this.
I've not made a claim about the average age someone enters into sex-work. I've just stated that I have a problem with a claim someone else made. How can I provide data to back up something that I do not think we know?
(HULK)
(Smash)
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
If this carries a maximum penalty of up to a year in jail, why is Kraft not required to attend the court date? Are you only required for felonies?
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HellToupee
Footballguy
Krafty went back to the spa on Sunday after being detained by cops on Saturday.
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
When it is all finished Kraft will be the one who was taken advantage of by a wily woman. "My client paid for a legitimate massage and was accosted in the massage room by a wily masseuse! It was after Mr. Kraft was accosted in a very vulnerable position that he paid the masseuse money to get out of the situation and made a hastily get away!"
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I missed this in what I read. I thought they just has surveillance of the two days.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
(HULK)
(Smash)
So, the charges listed the times Kraft was at the "spa". The affidavit's surveillance log also lists times.
This means Kraft is "Male 8" and "Male 13".
Male 8: 40 minute visit, got a handy from 2 workers, Lei Wang (age 45) and Shen Mingbi (age 58).
Male 13: 14 minute visit total, got oral sex from Lei Wang (age 45).
So, everyone up on Kraft for how he would've obviously known it was sex trafficking... how? Lei Wang has been charged as being the manager of the place. Shen, I don't know much about her other that she was reported there on the day the health inspector got suspicious. Both women who have been claimed to have been in charge of the spa lived there, slept there.
So, where is the trafficking? Did Lei Wang traffick herself? Was Shen Mingbi really an enslaved sex slave at 58 years old? I guess it is possible. But I would say, not probable. I certainly would say that Kraft would not have a strong reason to believe the lady in charge of the spa and her older friend who worked there were somehow there against their will.
I'm sure more will come out in the coming days, but if I had to make a bet right now, this will not yield any charges for sex trafficking.
This means Kraft is "Male 8" and "Male 13".
Male 8: 40 minute visit, got a handy from 2 workers, Lei Wang (age 45) and Shen Mingbi (age 58).
Male 13: 14 minute visit total, got oral sex from Lei Wang (age 45).
So, everyone up on Kraft for how he would've obviously known it was sex trafficking... how? Lei Wang has been charged as being the manager of the place. Shen, I don't know much about her other that she was reported there on the day the health inspector got suspicious. Both women who have been claimed to have been in charge of the spa lived there, slept there.
So, where is the trafficking? Did Lei Wang traffick herself? Was Shen Mingbi really an enslaved sex slave at 58 years old? I guess it is possible. But I would say, not probable. I certainly would say that Kraft would not have a strong reason to believe the lady in charge of the spa and her older friend who worked there were somehow there against their will.
I'm sure more will come out in the coming days, but if I had to make a bet right now, this will not yield any charges for sex trafficking.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Because he's a reasonably intelligent person who has personally called to discuss with the director of a major focused non-profit (and donated six figures at a time to the cause of) sex trafficking in Massachusetts. And because he is a rather intelligent person.
(HULK)
(Smash)
The study was entirely about underaged sex workers, not at all about the entire sex worker population. They're a sub pool. It's like you've looked at my engine and then told me my tires need to be changed without looking at my tires even once.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I believe Lei was arrested the other day. This article says she is 39 (second link is photo)
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/774365-robert-kraft-yes-that-robert-kraft-charged-with-soliciting-prostitution/
https://newschannel9.com/news/nation-world/gallery/robert-kraft-owner-of-new-england-patriots-arrested-in-human-trafficking-crackdown#photo-2
Henry Ford
Footballguy
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rockaction
Footballguy
If -- if -- the affidavit is true, this is one of those non-story stories that sounds exactly like what Elizabeth Nolan Brown said it sounded like -- a prostitution sting gussied up by the police by implying that the women/"girls" were either:
- Underage sex workers
- Victims of sex slavery or human trafficking.
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Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
I've lost what you are arguing here. I agree with you that there is likely underage girls being forced to provide sex services in some places. Do you think these two 40 and 50 something year old women are being forced to provide sex services? If so, wouldn't you agree there are plenty of other 40 and 50 something year old women doing the same? And doesn't that totally screw up your average age being a minor?
(HULK)
(Smash)
Maybe you misunderstand me. I'm just trying to find clarity here. People are saying some things that are frankly, pretty preposterous, as fact. I'm asking for sources because I do believe that any of this "data" is likely to be highly questionable for a number of reasons: the difficulty obtaining it, the agenda of those creating it, etc.
For the average age people enter into sex work to be 13.8, think about what that means. Half of sex workers are starting earlier than that. And for every woman who decides to enter sex work at age 41.5, we need 2 more people who become sex workers the instant they leave the womb. It just doesn't hold up. Meanwhile, we're seeing Robert Kraft getting handies from someone who is 58. Has she been a sex slave for 45 years?
I just think, to have this conversation, people need to have a much more open mindset and to try and leave their pre-conceived notions at the door. I can tell you that when I started reading this thread earlier today, I hadn't ever seen studies showing that decriminalization could lead to increased trafficking. Now I do. As such, at some point soon I'll look at those studies and see if I find them credible, and then alter my stance a bit or not.
(HULK)
(Smash)
I don't understand how one woman can be a sex slave AND a sex trafficker at the same time.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
The number I'm using is the number when these women were first exploited.
The average someone enters the NFL is probably around 22. That isn't affected by Drew Brees playing football at 40.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I was just trying to make an amusing Great Gatsby reference. I hadn't seen the ages of the women yet so I just assumed that he'd gotten busted with one of the women the sting was supposedly trying to help.
I am mildly relieved to see that Bob Kraft seems to prefer more mature women who would be more likely to have chosen to work there. Although I will still definitely continue to make jokes about this every time someone brings up the Patriots until the day I die.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
So this 58 year old woman servicing Kraft.... how long do you suspect she's been forced to do this kind of thing? 40+ years?
(HULK)
(Smash)
That's one possible reason. The other could be they want it to go away quickly. I have no idea what the 3 big fish will do.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Averages do not provide enough information to guess one specific person's qualities.
(HULK)
(Smash)
Please point me to what you are referring too then. Because I didn't see an average age for entering sex work anywhere else within the document.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Don't you think there are enough 40 or 50 somethings in this industry that makes you question whether they've been doing this against their will for 40 something years or your averages posted can't be accurate? Isn't it much more likely that these older women are choosing to do this for cash?
bigbottom
Footballguy
A prominent figure arrested for paying prostitutes to get blow jobs is at least kind of a story.
(HULK)
(Smash)
So, I'm not reasonably intelligent for failing to understand how the woman in charge of the spa and facing criminal penalties here is also a sex slave? She wasn't allowed to go out alone by a rule she made for herself?
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, that's true. I said the same thing shady did, but I meant that the story was less dark and filled with less intrigue. Sounds like an old man paying for a blow job from an older woman.
Green light go!
(HULK)
(Smash)
The affidavit has a different age for her, lists her DOB as 1974.
I suspect the affidavit is more accurate.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I understand you don't want to read the study without first attacking it on every possible level, but it's worth at least a few glances.
As a show of good faith, check out table 3.15 with 1,366 responses.
(HULK)
(Smash)
(HULK)
(Smash)
You're going to have to define exploited. As a sex slave? Because it certainly sounds like that is what you are saying.
(HULK)
(Smash)
You're still a DC resident, right? How do you feel about the push for decriminalization of prostitution there?
(HULK)
(Smash)
No. But the ones named are all old. A few were unidentified. I'd bet they're also old though.
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