apalmer
Footballguy
It's easier to repeal a law than to overrule a SC decision. Anything the Democrats could have done when they had the votes could have been repealed last year or any other time the Republicans had the votes.
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Abortion thread: (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
The Commish
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
apalmer
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
Apparently. There was debate about it in the Alabama legislature and the answer was because it's not in a woman. So it's pretty clear what this is about.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Of course it is. These laws aren’t about protecting embryos or zygotes or fetuses. They’re about telling women what they’re allowed to do.
NCCommish
Footballguy
The Dems has 60 or more senators for several years after Roe passed. And they changed the filibuster rule in 1975 to make it 60 votes. They had the votes for 4 more years. And remember back then some Republicans were prochoice.
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timschochet
Footballguy
I think so. There was one but it was removed last week. That’s what caused the delay in the vote:
timschochet
Footballguy
Beat possible result: after a lower court inevitably overturns this law, the SC refuses to hear it.
timschochet
Footballguy
The law also includes language comparing abortions to the Holocaust and other infamous examples of genocide:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alabama-abortion-bill-alabama-politicians-compare-abortions-to-the-holocaust-in-proposed-abortion-law-2019-04-23/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab4i&_amp=1*xcnwdr*s_vid*RUJjeElSaWJmOXJWV0JmRlNYU0oteWpkZ3RTZkZRUFJOWUFmZlZHUFpqX2pnQ1V4SVZNLWF0VzRyVTJHT3liNA..
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alabama-abortion-bill-alabama-politicians-compare-abortions-to-the-holocaust-in-proposed-abortion-law-2019-04-23/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab4i&_amp=1*xcnwdr*s_vid*RUJjeElSaWJmOXJWV0JmRlNYU0oteWpkZ3RTZkZRUFJOWUFmZlZHUFpqX2pnQ1V4SVZNLWF0VzRyVTJHT3liNA..
The Commish
Footballguy
FFS.....ok. So I am left wondering....if this thing is overturned at any point....how does the SC even agree to hear the case? Wouldn't they flat out laugh these idiots out of the courtroom?
Henry Ford
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
When they are deciding what to hear is it simply them voting among themselves? What is that process? 5-4 vote and it's heard?
NCCommish
Footballguy
If any 4 judges want to hear the case then they take it up. Its called the Rule of 4.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Yup. Here's a quote from the bill's sponsor, Clyde Chambliss:
Pretty much gives away the game there.
Although let's be honest- if anyone hadn't already figured out the game, they ain't gonna figure it out now.
timschochet
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
If I were on the supreme court, I would prefer a much more moderate piece of legislation as a means of overturning Roe. The part about imprisoning women and doctors is needlessly inflammatory.
NCCommish
Footballguy
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Workhorse
Footballguy
Around the world, abortion rates are virtually the same regardless of legality: https://www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2018/new-report-highlights-worldwide-variations-abortion-incidence-and-safety
Once again, the party of science/fact denial continues to drag the country backwards without any logic or reason.
Once again, the party of science/fact denial continues to drag the country backwards without any logic or reason.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
My wife has been doing this for years but I am not sure she is really protesting anything (other than me)
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
It is vanishingly unlikely that abortion rates are independent of legality. The study you're citing doesn't control for confounding factors, like the fact that countries that restrict abortion also tend to restrict access to contraceptives. That's a pretty big deal.
The Commish
Footballguy
whoknew
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
Well since the Supreme court said it was legal it was hard to say you could refuse victims of a crime. So it's the little fig leaf to cover everything else.
whoknew
Footballguy
Yea - I guess I do get it then. Its just a way for the GOP to seem kind to crime victims while denying rights to women.
But its still inconsistent. If a fetus is a baby at conception, then why should that baby be killed just because its dad is a rapist? The baby is innocent.
apalmer
Footballguy
In the 70's the split wasn't as clearly along party lines. A lot of Democrats (including the President) leaned pro-life.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I think it is about taking the feelings and life of the mother into account over that of a fetus which we don't even really agree on whether it is a person or not.
whoknew
Footballguy
But the pro-lifers - the ones who are passing these laws - they do agree. Its a human life at conception. They've no doubt. So why would they include these exceptions?
Anyway - that's probably just a derailment of this thread.
timschochet
Footballguy
Per CNN, one of the Republican lawmakers was asked about rape, and said that if a girl is raped she needs to tell her parents, and they can seek justice.
This is why Trump was elected. To get conservatives on the Supreme Court. I expect that either Roe vs Wade gets over-turned or they will elect Trump for another 4 years to add more conservatives to the court.
Yeah I don't have a problem with that philosophy. I have a been a strong supporter of more Lorena Bobbit's frankly. of course like Lorena the guy will be treated more sympathetically when kind of person or act occurs.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Fair. I would say shooting some to death is murder but we have exceptions there as well. We make exceptions for situations. Anyway, I will also walk away.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I guess I'll add that apparently though abortion is defined as a crime the man does not face any penalty for participating in it. So if the man asks or demands an abortion, no penalty. If the man pays for or helps facilitate the event, no penalty. That's not an actual crime from what I can tell.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I can foresee a day where Alabama will be 90% male, the women having all or mostly fled the state for greener pastures as it were.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I agree and maybe even 6-3 or 7-2. From the sound of it this is way over the line and too obvious a political ploy. I don't see the district or appeals courts upholding it either. Really this isn't even something the USSC should hear if that happens but I suspect they will hear it regardless. Still, even writing such an opinion would be almost impossible. Kavanaugh and Thomas are well equipped and prone to though. I don't know about Alito.
If you are going to criminally punish a women for getting an abortion then it is perfectly fair to apply the same criminal penalty to the man involved in it. I mean what the narrative that all these women are having abortions and the men are screaming PLEASE NO DON'T? Maybe in a small percentage but yeah highly unlikely.
NCCommish
Footballguy
But even many prolifers were willing to go along with legality. And they were often willing to talk common sense ways to reduce abortions. It wasn't like it is now. And heck even now you have anti-abortion groups working on those kinds of things. But in the 80s the GOP found it to be a good wedge issue and positions got hardened.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
This isn't just a "GOP got hardened" story. Try running for office as a pro-life Democrat and see how far you get. This is definitely a litmus test issue for both parties.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Politically I think of what the RW media tried to do with the racial and sex incidents in Virginia, and it seems to me this is going to be a pretty big motivator for turnout for Dems in 20. Politically this seems unsmart.
timschochet
Footballguy
Absolutely agree. There is a reason the Republican establishment has avoided tackling this issue for decades (all the while promising the base they would, and using it as a means to secure money and votes)- it’s because they fear it like no other issue in terms of how it unifies Democrats.
NCCommish
Footballguy
When I said positions got hardened I meant both sides. My apologies for the lack of clarity.
Look forward to see how Nick Saban does a two step dance around this question. Because you know he will be asked about it. And you know his opinion will be valued.
So apparently Alabama is 49th rated when it comes to the infant mortality rate. yeah they sure do care about the life of the child in that state
So apparently Alabama is 49th rated when it comes to the infant mortality rate. yeah they sure do care about the life of the child in that state
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I think it is a red meat issue for both sides of the political spectrum. I suspect the Republicans believe this will turn out votes as do the Democrats. Personally I think the Republicans have miscalculated that this will be advantageous. I think it is a serious miscalculation, but I may be blinded by my personal beliefs and may not appreciate the national sentiment here which is always a danger. I hope I am correct in my appraisal, but who knows?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I agree. Abortion is a winning issue for Republicans when Democrats are talking about third-trimester abortions and stuff like that. It's a winning issue for Democrats when Republicans are talking about jailing women.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
Nick Saban isn't exactly known for being warm and fuzzy with the media. When he tells them he's not answering or is worried about coaching football, it won't be a two step. It'll be more of a freight train through whatever reporter he takes it out on.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
There's actually a lot of conservative women here who are supporting this stand. But bigger picture this is a loser for Republicans. Alabama is one of the few states that state lawmakers can do this and the majority not fear being voted out as a result. I think it's a grandstanding position in that the rape/incest exception was removed trying to provoke a court fight for a state that doesn't have enough revenue as it is. All we hear is how short the state is on funds and one of the few things I've ever agreed with Vivian Figures (AL state senate) on is that lawmakers who voted yes to this should have to fund the legal fees that come out of it.
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