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timschochet

Alabama passes most stringent anti-abortion law in the natIon.

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2 hours ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

Here's a somewhat random question for you...

Do you know which nation allows almost 40,000 legal abortions a year including many that are paid for by the government?

no idea

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2 hours ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

Here's a somewhat random question for you...

Do you know which nation allows almost 40,000 legal abortions a year including many that are paid for by the government?

I'm gonna guess...Isreal?

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3 hours ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

Here's a somewhat random question for you...

Do you know which nation allows almost 40,000 legal abortions a year including many that are paid for by the government?

Sounds like a nation that doesn’t know much about the Old Testament. 

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16 minutes ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

Hint:  It’s the birthplace of the Bible.

Zoroastrians?

or maybe The Epic of Gilgamesh?

or how about the Egyptian Instruction of Amenemope?

The Egyptian Book of the Dead?

Could be the Canaanites.

Hmmm... if I had to pick one, the OT stole from the Zoroastrians more than they stole from everywhere else, but the Zoroastrians are hardly a majority of the thieving.... gee.... this is hard.

Sorry, if the bible wasn't stolen from so many damn sources this would be so much easier to answer. 

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again ... I'm not using Bible to say what abortion is

biology says what it is - its ending the life of the unborn to stop a pregnancy

 

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On 5/18/2019 at 12:15 PM, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

It will be outlawed next if these men have their way. 

Again, it isn't "men" as if it is some unilateral action by evil men to usurp the will and autonomy of women.  The populace of Alabama is numerically pro-life in roughly equal proportion between men and women.  

(That said there's no way the populace wants restrictions on birth control.)

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5 minutes ago, Sand said:

Again, it isn't "men" as if it is some unilateral action by evil men to usurp the will and autonomy of women.  The populace of Alabama is numerically pro-life in roughly equal proportion between men and women.  

(That said there's no way the populace wants restrictions on birth control.)

Polling from 2012 and again in 2018 showed that just 31 percent of voters in Alabama support banning abortion in all cases. Such as in this latest bill that was passed.

Alabama is 33% white male.

Care to see who actually passed the bill?  Every Senate Vote For Alabama’s Abortion Ban Was From A White Man

 

quack. quack. quack.

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36 minutes ago, Sand said:

Again, it isn't "men" as if it is some unilateral action by evil men to usurp the will and autonomy of women.  The populace of Alabama is numerically pro-life in roughly equal proportion between men and women.  

(That said there's no way the populace wants restrictions on birth control.)

I agree it's roughly even women and men.  Probably about 1/3 support for this bill is about right.  If I had to guess from having lived here most of my life the state is 2/3 or greater pro life.  Maybe half of those people support this bill and half are uncomfortable with the lack of exceptions.  The fact that it's white men who passed it in the legislature is only because the legislature is mostly white men.  There are 4 women in the Alabama Senate out of 35 members.  All 4 of those women are Democrats.  The 27 Republican controlled seats are all white men.  So statistically anything the Republicans vote for in Alabama, and they have complete legislative control, if you use the lens of gender you could say is a male dominated issue.  But that simply isn't true as women in Alabama vote heavily Republican.

Alabama isn't anything if not a men's club politically and I'll admit to that.  But don't mistake the political figureheads with it being a male only movement.  Some of the most ardent and hard right pro life people I know are women.  This coming from someone who is against this bill.  

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51 minutes ago, BigSteelThrill said:
1 hour ago, Sand said:

Again, it isn't "men" as if it is some unilateral action by evil men to usurp the will and autonomy of women.  The populace of Alabama is numerically pro-life in roughly equal proportion between men and women.  

(That said there's no way the populace wants restrictions on birth control.)

Polling from 2012 and again in 2018 showed that just 31 percent of voters in Alabama support banning abortion in all cases. Such as in this latest bill that was passed.

Alabama is 33% white male.

Care to see who actually passed the bill?  Every Senate Vote For Alabama’s Abortion Ban Was From A White Man

 

quack. quack. quack

:thanks::brush:

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57 minutes ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Polling from 2012 and again in 2018 showed that just 31 percent of voters in Alabama support banning abortion in all cases. Such as in this latest bill that was passed.

Alabama is 33% white male.

Care to see who actually passed the bill?  Every Senate Vote For Alabama’s Abortion Ban Was From A White Man

 

quack. quack. quack.

Numbers don't try. 

... Not high

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14 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

I agree it's roughly even women and men.

I agree.  This is absolutely an American white + Christian thing. And yet "they" deny their christian-religious aspect (and thus the Lord imo) as the foundation in their argumentation all the time. Because they know how wildly unpopular it is with the USA as a whole.

And its even worse, again in imho, that they bastardize the Bible to fit their political agenda.

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14 hours ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Polling from 2012 and again in 2018 showed that just 31 percent of voters in Alabama support banning abortion in all cases. Such as in this latest bill that was passed.

Alabama is 33% white male.

Care to see who actually passed the bill?  Every Senate Vote For Alabama’s Abortion Ban Was From A White Man

 

quack. quack. quack.

I'm sure you're right about the "all cases" (which I've noted I would have liked to see the exceptions in there).

But, make no mistake that a pro-life bill would pass readily in a general election (with the exceptions).  The whole idea of blaming 33 white guys (who were put into officer by the 50% women in the state) for a unilateral action is fake news and intellectually dishonest.  It makes for a good hysterical talking point to promulgate, I guess.  Congrats for that.

 

14 hours ago, Shula-holic said:

I agree it's roughly even women and men.  Probably about 1/3 support for this bill is about right.  If I had to guess from having lived here most of my life the state is 2/3 or greater pro life.  Maybe half of those people support this bill and half are uncomfortable with the lack of exceptions.  The fact that it's white men who passed it in the legislature is only because the legislature is mostly white men.  There are 4 women in the Alabama Senate out of 35 members.  All 4 of those women are Democrats.  The 27 Republican controlled seats are all white men.  So statistically anything the Republicans vote for in Alabama, and they have complete legislative control, if you use the lens of gender you could say is a male dominated issue.  But that simply isn't true as women in Alabama vote heavily Republican.

Alabama isn't anything if not a men's club politically and I'll admit to that.  But don't mistake the political figureheads with it being a male only movement.  Some of the most ardent and hard right pro life people I know are women.  This coming from someone who is against this bill.  

Pretty much yes to all of this in agreement.  The state is heavily pro-life.  The legislature is a men's club (though prior to the last 8 years it was a 130 year Democratic men's club, so very consistent there).  I am also generally against this bill, though I understand the logic.  While I'd like to see it outlawed with the exceptions I believe this bill, if affirmed, would make it very hard to unring part of that bell and put the exceptions back in.  That's a mistake.

That said I doubt SCOTUS takes up any of these cases and will let the lower courts' repudiations stand.

The most ardent pro-life folks I know are women.  

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1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

So dumb

Republicans absolutely justified in asking to censure him after those comments.  I would hope Democrats would agree.  No place for that.

That guy has been a nutcase for decades.  Kinda like Sheila Jackson Lee - completely off their rocker, but gets reelected time and time again based on pure charisma.

Edited by Sand

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2 hours ago, gianmarco said:

So dumb

Republicans absolutely justified in asking to censure him after those comments.  I would hope Democrats would agree.  No place for that.

Good for Doug Jones.  

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The average national infant mortality rate in 2017 was 5.8 per 1,000 live births, per CDC data. Missouri's was 6.2 Louisiana’s was 7.1 Georgia's and Ohio’s were 7.2 Alabama’s was 7.4 Mississippi had the highest infant mortality rate — at 8.6 deaths per 1,000 live births. (2/4)

 

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On 5/24/2019 at 11:46 AM, Juxtatarot said:

Missouri too?

They admit it was purposely passed with vulgar omissions like having an abortion as a result of being raped still being legal in hopes of overturning Roe.  I have a friend in Chicago that was attacked, raped and impregnated while out jogging.  This was about 20 years ago. She had an abortion. These laws make me want to be "unruly". 

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56 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

This is a good essay.

http://fakenous.net/?p=392

I think it has some good discussion in it.  I think it’s a little off at times. 

Quote

In fact, if you think the issue is easy, then I would say you’re irrational.

I guess that depends on what you think the “issue” is.  If it’s morality, sure, it’s complex.  If it’s legality, I would say it’s remarkably simple.  Of course, if we’re talking morality, it would probably be best for the writer to stop calling people who are pro-choice “pro-abortion” as used in the first paragraph.  

Edited by Henry Ford
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If you’re the only person walking by a pool, and someone is in it screaming for help and drowning, is it morally acceptable to walk away without helping? Might depend on the circumstances.  Can you swim? Well enough to save this person? How far away is the person? Is there a life ring? A rope? Anything you can do to help other than jump in?  Do you have a cell phone? The morality might be complicated but probably falls on the side of “immoral” for walking away.

Legality? There’s no real question.  You generally have no legal duty to help that person.

Morality and the what the law should be are entirely different things. 

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3 hours ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

This is a good essay.

http://fakenous.net/?p=392

 

Quote

Thomson says it would be okay to expel the fetus from your body, even if it has a right to life, because its right to life does not imply that you have a duty to support its life using your own body; you own your body, and you don’t have to let anyone use it, even if they need it to survive. (See the famous violinist hypothetical.)

This is a very right-wing libertarian argument, appealing to self-ownership and a purely negative conception of rights (yay). I notice, however, that many left-wing people seem to find this argument convincing, yet they reject the same sort of libertarian, “negative rights only” logic in other areas (e.g., when it comes to whether I have to use my labor or resources to support the poor).

I've noticed this exact same thing and thought about commenting on it before, but I thought it was too meta for people to get.

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18 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

 

I've noticed this exact same thing and thought about commenting on it before, but I thought it was too meta for people to get.

It’s actually something of an oversimplification of liberal viewpoints. Liberals generally have a hierarchy of rights, and body ownership and determination (legalize marijuana, pro-choice, right to die, etc) is pretty consistently at the top.  They take a dimmer view of the idea of solely individual rights to the economic benefits of society (hence raising taxes to help the poor and underprivileged, etc).  

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