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False Narratives, The Real Issue with MSM (1 Viewer)

J

jon_mx

Footballguy
My biggest issue with the mainstream media is not the accuracy, but it is the bias which comes through in the form of False Narratives.  Reporting only facts which fits your narrative and over-hyping those facts and making them sound really scary is often used to create a false picture of reality.   False Narratives are just as an effective propaganda tool in stirring up hatred and divisions than out and out lies.  Arguably even more effective since there is 'truth' behind them.  I tend to trust the facts that are presented, but not the narrative.  

This thread is not for Fake News, because that is not the biggest problem in reporting.  This thread will focus on and document False Narratives, which have a tendency to surround stirring up racial tension.  

This week's Second Amendment Rally in Virginia is a prime example.  The false narrative spun by numerous MSM souces was that a bunch of dangerous white nationalists will be storming into Virginia which will inevitably lead to violence.  The rally turned out to be excessively peaceful and clean with the only arrest was of some lady for wearing a bandanna over her face (concealing your identity in public is illegal in the state). Here are examples of some of the spinning of this narrative:

Ben Collins another NBC reporter tweeted “Reporters covering tomorrow’s white nationalist rally…Don’t become a hero in the neo-Nazi propaganda circles with made up stuff.”

Maurice DuBoise, fill in anchor on CBS Evening News, stated there was ““The tightened security came after more than a week of threats and violence and the governor after he declared a state of emergency.”  There were arrests from threats by a white militia/supremist group, but I have no idea what violence she is referring to.

MSNBC Anchor:  "Right now thousands of gun-rights activists, white nationalists, militia groups—all swarming the Virginia state capitol in Richmond,"

Interesting spin from Washington Post's coverage: "Chants of 'U-S-A, U-S-A' broke out every few minutes, but by 10:15 a.m. there were no signs of violence or conflict with law enforcement officers."  Obviously people who chant “U-S-A, U-S-A” are prone to violence.

Gabe Gutierrez reporter for NBC and MSNBC tweeted a picture of the rally and captioned it ‘Chants of “we will not comply” from gun rights protesters in Richmond’ as the crowd was actually saying the Pledge of Allegiance.

Jeff Pegues of CBS in an alarming voice on his coverage of the event:  “22,000 gun-rights supporters came out today, many armed to the teeth, some dressed in fatigues, others with handguns on their hips, and rifles draped across their chests.”

 
Didn’t the arrests that occurred beforehand limit the threat of violence? Sounds like the ringleaders were properly handled by authorities so that it didn’t turn out to be an issue. 

 
 It's been happening since time immemorial.  I don't think there's a time in human history where truth is so readily available to the public. 

 
timschochet said:
Didn’t the arrests that occurred beforehand limit the threat of violence? Sounds like the ringleaders were properly handled by authorities so that it didn’t turn out to be an issue. 
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That was a terrorist threat to stir up emotions and perhaps help create choas to promote their evil agenda of a race war.  It really had nothing to do with the attendees to the event who had no interest in violence, which is where the concern from the media came about.

 
jon_mx said:
My biggest issue with the mainstream media is not the accuracy, but it is the bias which comes through in the form of False Narratives.  Reporting only facts which fits your narrative

Jeff Pegues of CBS in an alarming voice on his coverage of the event:  “22,000 gun-rights supporters came out today, many armed to the teeth, some dressed in fatigues, others with handguns on their hips, and rifles draped across their chests.”
Click to expand...
I understand the frustration with reporting "false narratives" or bias context, or similar.

But I don't see a problem with this one.  Seems pretty accurate. 

 
jon_mx said:
Interesting spin from Washington Post's coverage: "Chants of 'U-S-A, U-S-A' broke out every few minutes, but by 10:15 a.m. there were no signs of violence or conflict with law enforcement officers."  Obviously people who chant “U-S-A, U-S-A” are prone to violence.
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This also seems to be fair.  If, indeed, chants of "U-S-A" broke out. 

 
jon_mx said:
 Interesting spin from Washington Post's coverage: "Chants of 'U-S-A, U-S-A' broke out every few minutes, but by 10:15 a.m. there were no signs of violence or conflict with law enforcement officers."  Obviously people who chant “U-S-A, U-S-A” are prone to violence.
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The bolded part, your conclusion, doesn't logically follow. 

 
jon_mx said:
That was a terrorist threat to stir up emotions and perhaps help create choas to promote their evil agenda of a race war.  It really had nothing to do with the attendees to the event who had no interest in violence, which is where the concern from the media came about.
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Even if that’s true (and I’m not sure that it is completely) it’s an after the fact realization: both for us and the media. 

If you want to argue that the media screwed up here, that’s fine. They screw up all the time and deserve criticism when they do. But you seem to be implying something much more sinister: that they deliberately misreported this story to pursue a political agenda. And if you truly believe that then I’m curious if the Washington Post guy was on the phone with the MSNBC guy  and the CBS Evening News guy and they plotted this together? How exactly was this manipulation planned out? 

 
So they tightened up security and hyped that they expected violence.  No violence happened, and you are claiming false narrative. 

Isn't it possible that there was no violence because of the tightened up security and media warnings?

 
timschochet said:
Even if that’s true (and I’m not sure that it is completely) it’s an after the fact realization: both for us and the media. 

If you want to argue that the media screwed up here, that’s fine. They screw up all the time and deserve criticism when they do. But you seem to be implying something much more sinister: that they deliberately misreported this story to pursue a political agenda. And if you truly believe that then I’m curious if the Washington Post guy was on the phone with the MSNBC guy  and the CBS Evening News guy and they plotted this together? How exactly was this manipulation planned out? 
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You are forgetting your Qanon.  There is a briefing that gets sent out to all major media orgs at 4:00AM every day.

 
Sweet J said:
This also seems to be fair.  If, indeed, chants of "U-S-A" broke out. 
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It is one of the worst ones, IMHO.  Why use 'but'?   That implies something you expected to happen but didn't.   Sounds like they are amazed that by the early hour of 10:15am there has not been any violence....yet.  

 
moleculo said:
So they tightened up security and hyped that they expected violence.  No violence happened, and you are claiming false narrative. 

Isn't it possible that there was no violence because of the tightened up security and media warnings?
Click to expand...
According to AOC, it is the racist police that causes the violence when minorities protests. 

 
timschochet said:
Even if that’s true (and I’m not sure that it is completely) it’s an after the fact realization: both for us and the media. 

If you want to argue that the media screwed up here, that’s fine. They screw up all the time and deserve criticism when they do. But you seem to be implying something much more sinister: that they deliberately misreported this story to pursue a political agenda. And if you truly believe that then I’m curious if the Washington Post guy was on the phone with the MSNBC guy  and the CBS Evening News guy and they plotted this together? How exactly was this manipulation planned out? 
Click to expand...
It is very persistent in every big racial story from the Duke rape case, to Trevon Martin, to Michael Brown, to Michael Bennett, to Jussie Smollett. 

EtA.  It has nothing to do with planned manipulation.  It is a shared bias which taints how these stories are reported.  

 
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Has there been a bigger “false narrative” in recent political history than the Clinton email scandal?  We were led to believe that email security was of paramount importance to conservative voters.  3 years later, we have non government employees personally conducting US foreign policy overseas via What’s’ App on unsecured personal cell phones.  it’s ludicrous, and yet conservatives don’t give a ####.  
 

 
tommyGunZ said:
Has there been a bigger “false narrative” in recent political history than the Clinton email scandal?  We were led to believe that email security was of paramount importance to conservative voters.  3 years later, we have non government employees personally conducting US foreign policy overseas via What’s’ App on unsecured personal cell phones.  it’s ludicrous, and yet conservatives don’t give a ####.  
 
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Non-government employees are not covered by the same rules.  They are allowed to use personal phones.  

 
tommyGunZ said:
Even when they are conducting US foreign policy, under the express direction of the POTUS?  Surely you see the problem here.  
Click to expand...
If they are sending classified info it would be.  A government phone has protections against breaking in and emails can be easily encrypted, but the communication line faces the same security issues regardless of whether it is personal or government. 

BTW, non-Gov employees are not issued government phones. 

 
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jon_mx said:
It is very persistent in every big racial story from the Duke rape case, to Trevon Martin, to Michael Brown, to Michael Bennett, to Jussie Smollett. 

EtA.  It has nothing to do with planned manipulation.  It is a shared bias which taints how these stories are reported.  
Click to expand...
What does your initial post have to do with race?

 
jon_mx said:
It is one of the worst ones, IMHO.  Why use 'but'?   That implies something you expected to happen but didn't.   Sounds like they are amazed that by the early hour of 10:15am there has not been any violence....yet.  
Click to expand...
Well it depends what the previous sentence was. The “but” could just as easily be modifying that. 

 
jon_mx said:
According to AOC, it is the racist police that causes the violence when minorities protests. 
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Wow. That is a mischaracterization of what she said and the point she was making. 

What she did say about the Virginia protest/rally yesterday:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/aoc-claims-there-were-almost-no-police-officers-at-virginia-second-amendment-rally

"But here's the image that has struck with me the most about that. When we go out and march for the dignity and the recognition of the lives of people like Freddie Gray and Eric Garner, the whole place is surrounded by police in riot gear without a gun in sight. And here are all of these people flying Confederate flags, with semi-automatic weapons, and there's almost no police officers at that protest," she said.

She added, "Who or what are our institutions protecting from whom? That image conveys it all."
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She was pointing out she believes that the police response is different to white armed protesters than there would be or is to black armed protesters. Does anyone honestly believe that if this had been black African-Americans carrying those military weapons into the streets at a BLM march, there would only be just a handful of cops? More like you would have seen dozens of police armed to the teeth in riot gear, with dogs, batons and tear gas.

 
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randall146 said:
Well there had to be some  context. Previous tweet?
Click to expand...
WaPo quote not taken from a Tweet but from an article. 

Here is the article it was taken from if you want some context (I think the writer, who was probably posting the update in real time, didn't phrase this well and was not an attempt at commentary).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/01/20/virginia-gun-rally-updates/

[...]

Thousands of people packed the streets around the Capitol. On Ninth Street, along the west side of Capitol Square, the sea of gun-toting, camouflage-wearing humanity was so thick people could not move. One group of burly men formed a chain, each holding the backpack of the one in front, to try to make headway down the hill through the crowd. Flags bristled from the throng — American flags, Gadsden (“Don’t Tread on Me”) flags, militia flags. The crowds extended a block below, turned east along a state office building and came back up to the south entrance of the Capitol.

Squadrons of militias formed lines and executed marches, then sat along the curb and warmed their hands and rested their weapons.

A reporter felt his bag snag on something, turned and saw that it had caught the edge of a long assault-style rifle. “Sorry, you’re good,” said the man carrying it, his face concealed behind a mask and dark glasses.

Another man carried a gigantic Barrett M82A1 rifle, probably five feet long, and wore a helmet and body armor. “It’s to draw attention,” said Brandon Lewis, who said he owns an indoor shooting gallery in Upstate New York. He had driven down with his wife to show their support for gun rights.

“It’s a reminder to our politicians that government is by the people and for the people,” he said.

Chants of “U-S-A, U-S-A” broke out every few minutes, but by 10:15 a.m. there were no signs of violence or conflict with law enforcement officers.

“Intel proving correct,” Virginia Secretary of Public Safety Brian Moran said in a text message. “Big crowd, several militia members. Peaceful protest so far and hopefully all day.”

While the people jamming the streets were mostly armed, a steady stream of others carrying only signs and cameras waited at the 17 metal detector stations to get inside Capitol Square. A heavy and mostly good-natured police presence guided the lines and kept things moving briskly. Several officers joked and chatted with rallygoers.

[...]

 
jon_mx said:
If they are sending classified info it would be.  A government phone has protections against breaking in and emails can be easily encrypted, but the communication line faces the same security issues regardless of whether it is personal or government. 

BTW, non-Gov employees are not issued government phones. 
Click to expand...
BTW, this is probably one reason not to have private citizens conducting foreign policy. 

 
squistion said:
WaPo quote not taken from a Tweet but from an article. 

Here is the article it was taken from if you want some context (I think the writer, who was probably posting the update in real time, didn't phrase this well and was not an attempt at commentary).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/01/20/virginia-gun-rally-updates/

[...]

Thousands of people packed the streets around the Capitol. On Ninth Street, along the west side of Capitol Square, the sea of gun-toting, camouflage-wearing humanity was so thick people could not move. One group of burly men formed a chain, each holding the backpack of the one in front, to try to make headway down the hill through the crowd. Flags bristled from the throng — American flags, Gadsden (“Don’t Tread on Me”) flags, militia flags. The crowds extended a block below, turned east along a state office building and came back up to the south entrance of the Capitol.

Squadrons of militias formed lines and executed marches, then sat along the curb and warmed their hands and rested their weapons.

A reporter felt his bag snag on something, turned and saw that it had caught the edge of a long assault-style rifle. “Sorry, you’re good,” said the man carrying it, his face concealed behind a mask and dark glasses.

Another man carried a gigantic Barrett M82A1 rifle, probably five feet long, and wore a helmet and body armor. “It’s to draw attention,” said Brandon Lewis, who said he owns an indoor shooting gallery in Upstate New York. He had driven down with his wife to show their support for gun rights.

“It’s a reminder to our politicians that government is by the people and for the people,” he said.

Chants of “U-S-A, U-S-A” broke out every few minutes, but by 10:15 a.m. there were no signs of violence or conflict with law enforcement officers.

“Intel proving correct,” Virginia Secretary of Public Safety Brian Moran said in a text message. “Big crowd, several militia members. Peaceful protest so far and hopefully all day.”

While the people jamming the streets were mostly armed, a steady stream of others carrying only signs and cameras waited at the 17 metal detector stations to get inside Capitol Square. A heavy and mostly good-natured police presence guided the lines and kept things moving briskly. Several officers joked and chatted with rallygoers.

[...]
Click to expand...
That was actually a decent post.  Thanks for the correction.  The context was not provided in the article I got it from and I am not a subscriber 

 
squistion said:
Wow. That is a mischaracterization of what she said and the point she was making. 

What she did say about the Virginia protest/rally yesterday:

She was pointing out she believes that the police response is different to white armed protesters than there would be or is to black armed protesters. Does anyone honestly believe that if this had been black African-Americans carrying those military weapons into the streets at a BLM march, there would only be just a handful of cops? More like you would have seen dozens of police armed to the teeth in riot gear, with dogs, batons and tear gas.
Click to expand...
But AOC was wrong.  There was hightened security with police in riot gear at the 2nd Amendment rally.   It is not the police action which was different but the actions of the protestors. 

 
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jon_mx said:
But AOC was wrong.  There were police in riot gear at the 2nd Amendment rally.   
Click to expand...
Really? Do you have any links to photos that back this up? Can't find anything to verify your claim on Twitter or after a Google search (there are all kinds of photos from 2018 but none that I could locate from yesterday's rally).

 
From my Facebook feed:

I’m seeing a lot of very well-meaning people patting Richmond on the back for the lack of casualties at the anti gun safety rally today. I understand the impulse, since I know how worried many of us were that something really terrible might happen. But I’m going to ask you to please remember the reason for this “peace” was that any potential counter-demonstration was squelched by the fear of violence. So, what we ended up with was 22,000 heavily armed people, decked out in military armor and carrying military weapons, storming through the streets of our city. They traveled in herds, toting heavy weapons, as they moved freely through quiet residential streets of our communities. Inside the homes in these communities, residents anxiously watched their television news and social media feeds. They called their friends and loved ones - often urging them to stay away. Avoid the area. Don’t confront the armed men. We’re calling this “peace.” Because no one was actually shot or assaulted, we’re calling it “nonviolent,” even though the threat of violence never left us. An armed militia occupying our city, silencing opposing views with their threatening presence alone, is NOT peacefulness and it’s not nonviolence. It’s occupation, it’s oppression.

 
squistion said:
Really? Do you have any links to photos that back this up? Can't find anything to verify your claim on Twitter or after a Google search (there are all kinds of photos from 2018 but none that I could locate from yesterday's rally).
Click to expand...
"There were hundreds of officers from our state police as well as Capitol police there. To say that there wasn't a strong presence would be wrong," County Sheriff Scott Jenkins told Bream.

"Her comments, I don't even believe they deserve any response at all. They're not worthy of it," he stated.

 
Sweet J said:
From my Facebook feed:

I’m seeing a lot of very well-meaning people patting Richmond on the back for the lack of casualties at the anti gun safety rally today. I understand the impulse, since I know how worried many of us were that something really terrible might happen. But I’m going to ask you to please remember the reason for this “peace” was that any potential counter-demonstration was squelched by the fear of violence. So, what we ended up with was 22,000 heavily armed people, decked out in military armor and carrying military weapons, storming through the streets of our city. They traveled in herds, toting heavy weapons, as they moved freely through quiet residential streets of our communities. Inside the homes in these communities, residents anxiously watched their television news and social media feeds. They called their friends and loved ones - often urging them to stay away. Avoid the area. Don’t confront the armed men. We’re calling this “peace.” Because no one was actually shot or assaulted, we’re calling it “nonviolent,” even though the threat of violence never left us. An armed militia occupying our city, silencing opposing views with their threatening presence alone, is NOT peacefulness and it’s not nonviolence. It’s occupation, it’s oppression.
Click to expand...
You want to credit the lack of counter protesters?  It is not counter demonstrators the left typically clash with, it is police.  

 
jon_mx said:
"There were hundreds of officers from our state police as well as Capitol police there. To say that there wasn't a strong presence would be wrong," County Sheriff Scott Jenkins told Bream.

"Her comments, I don't even believe they deserve any response at all. They're not worthy of it," he stated.
Click to expand...
How many in riot gear and again, can you provide a link to any photos that prove this? There should be several photos showing them in their riot gear attire, no?

 
We really need to compare and blame the police in a protest where approximately 486 people were arrested, and over 100 police officers were injured. More than 280 businesses were damaged, and nearly 150 vehicles were set on fire, amounting to over $9 million in damages.  It was neither the police nor counter protesters to blame.  It was the protestors/rioters who are to blame.  

 
jon_mx said:
Interesting spin from Washington Post's coverage: "Chants of 'U-S-A, U-S-A' broke out every few minutes, but by 10:15 a.m. there were no signs of violence or conflict with law enforcement officers."  Obviously people who chant “U-S-A, U-S-A” are prone to violence.

 
Click to expand...
I you like this conclusion you made, you must really love the spin on "but I need a favor, tho"

 
Media makes decisions based on maximizing profits. Once this is understood all of their actions make sense. Regardless which source is in question. 

 
jon_mx said:
According to AOC, it is the racist police that causes the violence when minorities protests. 
Click to expand...
Wait, what?  What does AOC have to do with this?  Why is she relevant here?  

This feels like a giant non-sequitor.  I'm very confused.

 
jon_mx said:
Maurice DuBoise, fill in anchor on CBS Evening News, stated there was ““The tightened security came after more than a week of threats and violence and the governor after he declared a state of emergency.”  There were arrests from threats by a white militia/supremist group, but I have no idea what violence she is referring to.
Click to expand...
I watched this clip. Seems to me that the sentence was supposed to read "after more than a week of threats OF violence"

And it is a "he"

 
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moleculo said:
Wait, what?  What does AOC have to do with this?  Why is she relevant here?  

This feels like a giant non-sequitor.  I'm very confused.
Click to expand...
She is not the MSM obviously, but she is heavily followed and reported on.  So when she paints a false narrative of a bunch of people waving their guns (basically true) and Confederate flags (maybe one or two out of 20,000, so not truthful) and that the police acted like bigots and stirred anger in their dignified rally, she adds flames and misinformation to how the MSM spins the story.   The thread on this forum reflected a lot of the fear that was being perpetuated.  So no, not the traditional MSM, but still contributing to this spin. 

 
the moops said:
I watched this clip. Seems to me that the sentence was supposed to read "after more than a week of threats OF violence"

And it is a "he"
Click to expand...
I will try to dig up the sourse of the quote tomorrow.  Your version sounds very plausible, so it could be an example of Fake News if that is the case.

 
jon_mx said:
She is not the MSM obviously, but she is heavily followed and reported on.  So when she paints a false narrative of a bunch of people waving their guns (basically true) and Confederate flags (maybe one or two out of 20,000, so not truthful) and that the police acted like bigots and stirred anger in their dignified rally, she adds flames and misinformation to how the MSM spins the story.   The thread on this forum reflected a lot of the fear that was being perpetuated.  So no, not the traditional MSM, but still contributing to this spin. 
Click to expand...
To me, it feels like our friends on the right spend a hell of a lot more time on AOC than our friends on the left do.  Rush talks about her MUCH more than anyone on MSNBC, for example.

I think you are seeing what you want to see. You are going out of your way to find something to be offended about.  Its really interesting - almost like the right has their own the anti-PC police, easily triggered by any slight, percieved or real.

 
moleculo said:
To me, it feels like our friends on the right spend a hell of a lot more time on AOC than our friends on the left do.  Rush talks about her MUCH more than anyone on MSNBC, for example.

I think you are seeing what you want to see. You are going out of your way to find something to be offended about.  Its really interesting - almost like the right has their own the anti-PC police, easily triggered by any slight, percieved or real.
Click to expand...
Anecdotally, the only time I see AOC is when someone from the right brings her up.

 
moleculo said:
To me, it feels like our friends on the right spend a hell of a lot more time on AOC than our friends on the left do.  Rush talks about her MUCH more than anyone on MSNBC, for example.

I think you are seeing what you want to see. You are going out of your way to find something to be offended about.  Its really interesting - almost like the right has their own the anti-PC police, easily triggered by any slight, percieved or real.
Click to expand...
Oh certainly there is bias in how I see things, which is true of everyone.  It is no different than people who see bigotry everywhere.  Often times it is over-reacting, but that does not negate the fact that there is truth there.   Everyone has different filters through how events are perceived. 

That said, AOC is capable of being what Trump was to the Democrats.  She is capable of empowering the most radical and angry wing of the party.  Both parties are being pulled in more radical directions by a minority segment.  

 
the moops said:
I watched this clip. Seems to me that the sentence was supposed to read "after more than a week of threats OF violence"

And it is a "he"
Click to expand...
Ok, here is the source article I found yesterday and it does contain the video ciip of the news cast.  The sentence starts at the 20 sceond mark and it sounded like 'AND' to me.  

 
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