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home networking (wifi) question - mesh vs access points (1 Viewer)

moleculo

Footballguy
I have too many wifi deadspots in my house and need something different.  My house has 2 stories plus basement, pre-wired for ethernet.  I currently have a router on each floor and all with the same SSID and password, with one as the master and the other configured as access points.    Architecture wise, it goes from cable modem -> router ->16 port switch -> two access points.

It works OK, but there are too many deadspots.  I'm wondering if adding more routers is the answer, or scrapping my current system and going to a whole-house mesh system is better.  Certainly that would be simpler. 

Additionally, it seems to drop  connection easily, even if I'm right in front of the main router.  I think there is come config in the main router that isn't working right, but that's a whole other debug thing to work on.  I know just enough about this stuff to get in trouble.  Honestly, I am at the point where I don't want to mess with this any more - if I were to just get something like this and make everyting work reliably, I'd be happy.

 
Mesh for sure. If you are really concerned about security then look into the Gryphon. Expensive, but super secure. Otherwise the more popular Mesh systems are good. 

 
Mesh.  No question.  I had the same situation as you and put in the Google mesh system.  I don't think I've had a drop or deadspot since.  I hear the same thing about all of the mesh systems.
I noted my progress in the router thread.  I hopped on the mesh solution about 6 months ago or so.  I'm using the google nest solution and absolutely love it.  I have a good 25-30 foot radius around the outside of the house even with this solution and we're in a block house to boot....go mesh and you won't be disappointed.

 
I went with the Amazon eero pro (3).  My nighthawk router seemed to be getting overloaded with connections, and the eero is handling things great.  

 
I'll still pimp my Orbi
Switched from a supposedly top of the line Netgear Nighthawk router (which was experiencing the same dead spots and drops like you describe) to an Orbi about a month ago and it has worked perfectly so far.  I mentioned it in the WiFi thread, but we also switched all of our TVs from DirecTV to streaming at the same time and no issues whatsoever despite the fact that we're using far more bandwidth than prior.

 
Mesh for sure. If you are really concerned about security then look into the Gryphon. Expensive, but super secure. Otherwise the more popular Mesh systems are good. 
I got MeshForce, which was a Black Friday sale on Amazon and it’s been way better than my Linksys/extenders and that was a Mack daddy router. Mesh seems way better at handling the 5 iPhones, multiple laptops, multiple gaming systems and multiple Firesticks.

The only issue I’ve had recently is my Spectrum internet slowing down. Part of that is likely having all my boys home (one was at Clemson so not even around at night) and part of it is the entire neighborhood and world working from home. I have a call to Spectrum on my list as I don’t have the beat speed package and now need it.

 
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I got MeshForce, which was a Black Friday sale on Amazon and it’s been way better than my Linksys/extenders and that was a Mack daddy router. Mesh seems way better at handling the 5 iPhones, multiple laptops, multiple gaming systems and multiple Firesticks.

The only issue I’ve had recently is my Spectrum internet slowing down. Part of that is likely having all my boys home (one was at Clemson so not even around at night) and part of it is the entire neighborhood and world working from home. I have a call to Spectrum on my list as I don’t have the beat speed package and now need it.
Yes, we are seeing Spectrum slow down for the same reasons. I imagine they are throttling back their speeds per household to make sure everyone has enough. 

 
Yes, we are seeing Spectrum slow down for the same reasons. I imagine they are throttling back their speeds per household to make sure everyone has enough. 
Probably, maybe if I spend more they’ll like me more. I’ll let you know if they tell me anything about the performance. 

 
:blackdot:

Is there a master Home Network thread I can ask my own questions?  I don't want to muddy this one up.

 
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Looking into mesh as well. Does anyone know if these would be compatible with the Verizon FIOS router? I know it doesn't always play well with others.TIA 

 
Looking into mesh as well. Does anyone know if these would be compatible with the Verizon FIOS router? I know it doesn't always play well with others.TIA 
Shouldn’t be an issue. From what I’ve read, it’s virtually plug and play with Fios. Check to be sure, but I think you’re good. 

 
I installed the Google mesh system and home and it works great.

The funny thing is, we have Google fiber - supposedly 500mbs. I hook up this mesh system and from time to time I'll get like 300-350mbs - still good, but not optimum. So I contact Google fiber tech support by chat and ask them what could be going on.

I tell them I installed the Google mesh system.

Them: "That router isn't really compatible with the Google mesh system."

Me: "Wait a second. You mean the router that the Google guy installed for the Google fiber internet won't work well with the Google mesh system?"

Them: "Yeah."

Me: "That is really incredibly dumb."

But, the thing works pretty well most of the time, as I usually get in the mid 400's or so. Not enough of a pain to buy a new router. Just thought it was funny.  :lol:

 
I have to replace my 15 year old wireless router.  We tend to lose internet access throughout the day, especially when I log on for work.  A co-worker recommended Google Nest Mesh system, if we all run apple phones and such is there a wireless router that would be better for those systems or does it not matter.  Mind you I am considered the IT guy in the house and I don't know barely anything considering IT but I guess I know more than anyone else in my house.

 
I have to replace my 15 year old wireless router.  We tend to lose internet access throughout the day, especially when I log on for work.  A co-worker recommended Google Nest Mesh system, if we all run apple phones and such is there a wireless router that would be better for those systems or does it not matter.  Mind you I am considered the IT guy in the house and I don't know barely anything considering IT but I guess I know more than anyone else in my house.
Dude. 15 years old!?! You could get one from a cereal box and it is going to run circles around what you are experiencing now.

Edit: Sorry, that sounded snarky and condescending. Didn’t mean it that way at all. I think you will be ecstatic with the performance of any mesh system over your current setup.

 
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I have to replace my 15 year old wireless router.  We tend to lose internet access throughout the day, especially when I log on for work.  A co-worker recommended Google Nest Mesh system, if we all run apple phones and such is there a wireless router that would be better for those systems or does it not matter.  Mind you I am considered the IT guy in the house and I don't know barely anything considering IT but I guess I know more than anyone else in my house.
You'll be thrilled with any of the mesh systems. I have the original Google system and it still rocks.

 
I got MeshForce, which was a Black Friday sale on Amazon and it’s been way better than my Linksys/extenders and that was a Mack daddy router. Mesh seems way better at handling the 5 iPhones, multiple laptops, multiple gaming systems and multiple Firesticks.

The only issue I’ve had recently is my Spectrum internet slowing down. Part of that is likely having all my boys home (one was at Clemson so not even around at night) and part of it is the entire neighborhood and world working from home. I have a call to Spectrum on my list as I don’t have the beat speed package and now need it.
I bit the bullet on Costco with TPLink Deco M9. Tri-band so it’s way faster than the Meshforxe. I thought the slow down was Spectrum and some if it probably was but the speed test with the M9 was so much better. I think the difference was the third band which is the dedicated back haul from the mesh points to the one connected to the cable modem. The Meshforce was nice but with everyone home and on it all day via phone or games or TV, it hit it’s limit. Didn’t have the drops or dead spots like the old single router, but the M9 is light years better.

Whatever you do, I highly recommend the truth-band. It clearly works. The M9 was $199 at Costco with 3 units, which is great for my house, covers all 3 floors since the cable modem is first floor middle. They’ve got a newer one but since I was replacing something I got a couple year ago, I didn’t need a $300+ they was way more than I need. Spectrum is supposed to be upgrading my speed with a new cable modem and of course they haven’t gotten back to me yet.

 
I installed the Google mesh system and home and it works great.

The funny thing is, we have Google fiber - supposedly 500mbs. I hook up this mesh system and from time to time I'll get like 300-350mbs - still good, but not optimum. So I contact Google fiber tech support by chat and ask them what could be going on.

I tell them I installed the Google mesh system.

Them: "That router isn't really compatible with the Google mesh system."

Me: "Wait a second. You mean the router that the Google guy installed for the Google fiber internet won't work well with the Google mesh system?"

Them: "Yeah."

Me: "That is really incredibly dumb."

But, the thing works pretty well most of the time, as I usually get in the mid 400's or so. Not enough of a pain to buy a new router. Just thought it was funny.  :lol:
Google Fiber here too (1GB). Almost went with the Google mesh system, but opted for the eero. Works great! Not a problem in 9 months. 

 
Looking into mesh as well. Does anyone know if these would be compatible with the Verizon FIOS router? I know it doesn't always play well with others.TIA 
I have Verizon and an Orbi System.  Formerly use Fios w their router and now just pay for internet with 30+ devices (family of 6).  
During quarantine my kids all worked all day and I have worked from home and no issues.

 
Dude. 15 years old!?! You could get one from a cereal box and it is going to run circles around what you are experiencing now.

Edit: Sorry, that sounded snarky and condescending. Didn’t mean it that way at all. I think you will be ecstatic with the performance of any mesh system over your current setup.
I deserve that, no apology necessary.  I understand it will help but my thing is if I don’t get a replacement in another 15 years I want to make sure what I get is good.  Kind of sarcasm, kind of truthful.

 
Dude. 15 years old!?! You could get one from a cereal box and it is going to run circles around what you are experiencing now.

Edit: Sorry, that sounded snarky and condescending. Didn’t mean it that way at all. I think you will be ecstatic with the performance of any mesh system over your current setup.
:lol:

My router is 5 years old, and I just ordered the eero.  One reason my wife hasn't wanted to drop cable is the sketchy WiFi. Hopefully this changes her mind.

 
I deserve that, no apology necessary.  I understand it will help but my thing is if I don’t get a replacement in another 15 years I want to make sure what I get is good.  Kind of sarcasm, kind of truthful.
Well, while I wouldn’t hesitate to bust a personal friend’s chops a little like that (and expect it in return), I should have dialed it back a little there. Thanks for being gracious.

The way they keep shuffling frequencies around and improving performance, I think you’ll be shopping for the next one a little sooner than that.

At 15 years old, I don’t think your router could be running a 5ghz band at all,. I’m not totally up on the dates, but  we just had 802.11 a,b,g, and then n in relatively short order 15-20 years ago. WiFi sort of had an explosion in capability just like networking when we went from 2400 baud modems to 9600, then 14.4, etc. etc., and now we are talking about gigabyte fiber. (Damn I feel old now).

Anyway, I guess what I am saying is I don’t  think you can buy networking gear “to last” like a quality household appliance. The landscape is still increasing so rapidly It will most likely be obsolete in 5-7 years.

 
Well, while I wouldn’t hesitate to bust a personal friend’s chops a little like that (and expect it in return), I should have dialed it back a little there. Thanks for being gracious.

The way they keep shuffling frequencies around and improving performance, I think you’ll be shopping for the next one a little sooner than that.

At 15 years old, I don’t think your router could be running a 5ghz band at all,. I’m not totally up on the dates, but  we just had 802.11 a,b,g, and then n in relatively short order 15-20 years ago. WiFi sort of had an explosion in capability just like networking when we went from 2400 baud modems to 9600, then 14.4, etc. etc., and now we are talking about gigabyte fiber. (Damn I feel old now).

Anyway, I guess what I am saying is I don’t  think you can buy networking gear “to last” like a quality household appliance. The landscape is still increasing so rapidly It will most likely be obsolete in 5-7 years.
Eh.  The WRT54GL came on the scene in 2005 and they can still be purchased new on Amazon.  I know Linksys was still producing them as recently as 2016.  2.4 ghz only, but very popular with the DD-WRT and Tomato crowd.  I do think mesh will kill them off soon.  But they are 15 years old and still technically viable.

http://smile.amazon.com/Linksys-WRT54GL-Wireless-G-Broadband-Router/dp/B000BTL0OA/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=WRT54GL&qid=1591582080&sr=8-1

 
Eh.  The WRT54GL came on the scene in 2005 and they can still be purchased new on Amazon.  I know Linksys was still producing them as recently as 2016.  2.4 ghz only, but very popular with the DD-WRT and Tomato crowd.  I do think mesh will kill them off soon.  But they are 15 years old and still technically viable.

http://smile.amazon.com/Linksys-WRT54GL-Wireless-G-Broadband-Router/dp/B000BTL0OA/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=WRT54GL&qid=1591582080&sr=8-1
That was petty much the gold standard for a while there.  I can't get my main router and access point to work together nicely, and my friend has a good router that can take DD-WRT, so I might give that one more try to get traditional gateway + AP to work properly before I ####-can the whole thing and to mesh.

I have 20 Mbs point to point microwave from a small ISP (cuz I hate Comcast and there's no fiber here in Baltimore City), so it's not like I'm gonna get great bandwidth anyway.

 
Eh.  The WRT54GL came on the scene in 2005 and they can still be purchased new on Amazon.  I know Linksys was still producing them as recently as 2016.  2.4 ghz only, but very popular with the DD-WRT and Tomato crowd.  I do think mesh will kill them off soon.  But they are 15 years old and still technically viable.

http://smile.amazon.com/Linksys-WRT54GL-Wireless-G-Broadband-Router/dp/B000BTL0OA/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=WRT54GL&qid=1591582080&sr=8-1
This article goes into the history of that router. Arstechmica story.Open source firmware and all that is a whole  ‘nother  level of geek above my head. I am surprised though that all the channel overlap on 2.4 hasn’t killed those entirely long before now.

 
This article goes into the history of that router. Arstechmica story.Open source firmware and all that is a whole  ‘nother  level of geek above my head. I am surprised though that all the channel overlap on 2.4 hasn’t killed those entirely long before now.
I read somewhere that a lot of other electronics have been moving away from 2.4, making it easier to use for WiFi than in the past. 

 
I read somewhere that a lot of other electronics have been moving away from 2.4, making it easier to use for WiFi than in the past. 
I thought it was more an issue of everybody”s WiFi router sending out the 2ghz signal, but since the only channels truly free of interfering with each other in that band are 1,6,and 11,  you and your neighbors would always be stepping all over each other.

In a dense network situation like a school, big office with lots of access points, you have to turn radio power up/down and very strategically place your points. I wish we could turn our 2.4 radios off entirely at work since all our school devices can connect at 5 ghz, but a lot of IOT stuff can’t. 
 

Managed networks have become a lot more sophisticated than I can explain or even understand, and can alleviate or automatically do a lot of this, but in a compact city residential street or apartment setting, etc. with dozens of independent signals in range, you can’t avoid it.

 
After a few months of up and down results with our new Google WiFi we found out it's causing interference with our wireless ISP that also uses the 5GHz band.

Any thoughts on a more compatible system in this situation?

 
After a few months of up and down results with our new Google WiFi we found out it's causing interference with our wireless ISP that also uses the 5GHz band.

Any thoughts on a more compatible system in this situation?
What ISP and what equipment of theirs is interfering?

 
What ISP and what equipment of theirs is interfering?
I'm not sure about their equipment, this is all they wrote to me:

I am assuming this a google mesh you have on the 5745 frequency at 80 mhz. You will need to change this into a range lower then 5600 to not interfere with the dish and access points bringing signal into the house.

After doing some research I concluded it was an issue with the 5Ghz band, but maybe I'm wrong?

 
They also wrote this:

When I check the frequencies for other access points I am getting multiple devices called "GXXX-xx" that are broadcasting over our broadcast  radios pointing at you.

They think this broadcasting is coming from the Google Wifi.

 
Here's a kindergarten level question - if I buy a mesh system (let's say Google Nest) does that replace my wireless router? Or does it connect to my wireless router?

IOW - If I buy a mesh system, does it include/necessitate a mesh wireless router?

 
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Andy Dufresne said:
Here's a kindergarten level question - if I buy a mesh system (let's say Google Nest) does that replace my wireless router? Or does it connect to my wireless router?

IOW - If I buy a mesh system, does it include/necessitate a mesh wireless router?
The eero connects to the router. Not sure if others are the same, but I'd presume so.

 
Google Fiber here too (1GB). Almost went with the Google mesh system, but opted for the eero. Works great! Not a problem in 9 months. 
Received our eero yesterday, set it up last night.

My only question now is why the #### did I wait so long?  So far it's awesome.

Ok, second question - is the subscription worth while? I'm guessing no. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Here's a kindergarten level question - if I buy a mesh system (let's say Google Nest) does that replace my wireless router? Or does it connect to my wireless router?

IOW - If I buy a mesh system, does it include/necessitate a mesh wireless router?
Any mesh system will include a router and will replace your existing router.  

 
Buttonhook said:
I'm not sure about their equipment, this is all they wrote to me:

I am assuming this a google mesh you have on the 5745 frequency at 80 mhz. You will need to change this into a range lower then 5600 to not interfere with the dish and access points bringing signal into the house.

After doing some research I concluded it was an issue with the 5Ghz band, but maybe I'm wrong?
I would reach out to Google tech support via the app and get their take.  They're very helpful. I'm not an expert enough to tell you how to respond to the ISP but some of their answers seem incongruent and a bit shifty to me.

 
I've got an Orbi, but it looks like almost all of the Eeros include a router too.

Does eero replace my modem?

eero doesn’t replace your modem, it replaces your router, so an eero or eero Pro will plug into your cable or DSL modem. 
But @-OZ- said it connected to the router. Did he mean modem?

All I want to know is if I connect these things to my Netgear Nighthawk or if I can sell that thing and use it to buy a mesh system.

 
I think he meant modem.  I had a Netgear Nighthawk router prior as well and my Orbi mesh system replaced it completely if that helps.
That makes more sense. I always mix the two up too.

Do you find the Orbi works better than the Nighthawk? I like the Nighthawk but there are a couple areas of my house that it doesn't seem to reach. Weird ones too.

 

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