2018 Baseball Hall of Fame Thread (2 Viewers)

[PIK95]

Pretty well known.  He got mad about McGuire and Sosa getting all the pub and decided to join the party.  I would say this is pretty much a fact. 

I disagree big time.  Reverse psychology down?  Arod and Clemens would point the finger at others to get the heat off themselves I believe.  Most would.  I think Barroid cheated MUCH earlier then when he got caught. That's my opinion.

  I also never understood why everyone automatically stuck up for Frank Thomas.  I give him credit for not getting in trouble, but we are kidding ourselves if we believe a word any of these guys say.  

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I disagree big time.  Reverse psychology down?  Arod and Clemens would point the finger at others to get the heat off themselves I believe.  Most would.  I think Barroid cheated MUCH earlier then when he got caught. That's my opinion.

  I also never understood why everyone automatically stuck up for Frank Thomas.  I give him credit for not getting in trouble, but we are kidding ourselves if we believe a word any of these guys say.  

I just assume everyone tried it between 1995 and 2010.  That's what kind of makes Mike Mussina's numbers (plus the face he played in the AL East with DH at the AL east peak) look a lot better for HOF consideration.

 

[PIK95]

Here is the list of players suspended for PEDs

Notice Neifi Perez on there twice.  Can you imagine all the terrible names from the 90s/early 2000s that were on PEDs and were completely awful.  Most of them.  It worked for Brady Anderson for a year, then pitchers realized he wasn't that good. 

That's one way to look at it.  Maybe those guys wouldn't have played past high school without the juice.  You still need eye hand coordination.  It skews everything unfortunately. 

  Personally I went my whole junior year of high school without striking out.  I had no power though.  If I juiced it would have made a HUGE difference.  Most of my teamates did (in 1992) but I followed the rules.

 

[PIK95]

I just assume everyone tried it between 1995 and 2010.  That's what kind of makes Mike Mussina's numbers (plus the face he played in the AL East with DH at the AL east peak) look a lot better for HOF consideration.

Like I said, kids in my high school were doing them from 90-93 when I was playing.  And we were in B division lol.

Edited to add:

A kid from my rival school was an All State player because of the roids.  He was about five foot one and a buck thirty but was on crazy juice and it played.  He would hit missiles all over the park and had good range at second.  

I am very tight with him now and we text weekly.  He told me he has had to take hormones from the Dr on a regular basis (Started in his 30's), because his body won't make any on it's own.  He is also a recovering addict.  So sad.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Here is the list of players suspended for PEDs

Notice Neifi Perez on there twice.  Can you imagine all the terrible names from the 90s/early 2000s that were on PEDs and were completely awful.  Most of them.  It worked for Brady Anderson for a year, then pitchers realized he wasn't that good. 

How ####### dare you

You know damn well that its :NEIFI:

 

[Limp Ditka]

I disagree big time.  Reverse psychology down?  Arod and Clemens would point the finger at others to get the heat off themselves I believe.  Most would.  I think Barroid cheated MUCH earlier then when he got caught. That's my opinion.

  I also never understood why everyone automatically stuck up for Frank Thomas.  I give him credit for not getting in trouble, but we are kidding ourselves if we believe a word any of these guys say.  

I’ve stated around here repeatedly that I thought Frank was dirty. Guy played SEC football in the 80s. There’s no way he wasn’t around it. It’s just a matter of if he did them or not. Considering he arguably had one of the top 5 starts to a career in baseball history, I’ll lean towards him doing them 

 

[shadyridr]

I just assume everyone tried it between 1995 and 2010.  That's what kind of makes Mike Mussina's numbers (plus the face he played in the AL East with DH at the AL east peak) look a lot better for HOF consideration.

He'll get in eventually

 

[shadyridr]

But pitchers did steroids too. So if everyone was in them wtf cares and where was the advantage?

 

[PIK95]

But pitchers did steroids too. So if everyone was in them wtf cares and where was the advantage?

Doesn't work that way unfortunately.  Our hall is dirty now.

 

[Eephus]

Doesn't work that way unfortunately.  Our hall is dirty now.

My link

 

[PIK95]

My link

The dirtiest!  It's embarrassing he's in.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

 Too bad it doesn't help throw out guys at the plate from deep short.  Oh well.

Science.

Andy Van Slyke claims that he told Bonds to play even shallower, and Bonds response was to give him the middle-finger. 

 

[Jayrok]

Bonds and Clemens will get in.  Probably next year's class.  

 

[shadyridr]

Bonds and Clemens will get in.  Probably next year's class.  

No way are they jumping 25% in one year. They jumped 2% this year.

Next year Mariano is a lock and Edgar will get in in his last year on the ballot.

Mussina will either get in next year or the year after.

 

[shadyridr]

My whole thoughts about the steroids guys. If I had a vote, I would vote for guys who I thought would have gotten in without the steroids anyway. I know its somewhat arbitrary but isn't what they are voting on now arbitrary?

I'd vote Bonds, Clemens, Ramirez, and ARod in

I wouldn't vote for Sosa, McGwire, & Palmeiro

 

[Smack Tripper]

Hoffman stunk... you know it seems theres a perception "oh if so and so played in New York he'd be a much bigger star"

Well here's a guy who benefited from the opposite.  Toiled in relative anonyminity and put saves and thats it and blew any big game he got near.  

Give me Lee Smith over him any day, who had his share of big game meltdowns but has an equivalent resume while being far more of a pitcher you hated seeing come in as an opposiing fan

 

[PIK95]

Hoffman stunk... you know it seems theres a perception "oh if so and so played in New York he'd be a much bigger star"

Well here's a guy who benefited from the opposite.  Toiled in relative anonyminity and put saves and thats it and blew any big game he got near.  

Give me Lee Smith over him any day, who had his share of big game meltdowns but has an equivalent resume while being far more of a pitcher you hated seeing come in as an opposiing fan

Give me Billy Wagner over Lee.  He was Awful in pressure situations, especially late in his career if I remember right.  I hated him when he was with Boston. Also lost ten games twice, and nine another year.  

 

[Koya]

Yea a lot. Way better hitter. Better eye. Certainly the best or second best hitter ever. 

You dont really think roids made him a better hitter do you?

X

His best or second best ever years are completely tainted. Skinny non-roid Bonds was a great hitter, but not in the league of Ruth, Williams etc.

As to combined WAR, without his huge use of roids, hard to say how his health and ability to maintain through the long seasons would have panned out, in addition to the decrease in general production we'd have seen from a clean Bonds, to begin with.

 

[Smack Tripper]

X

His best or second best ever years are completely tainted. Skinny non-roid Bonds was a great hitter, but not in the league of Ruth, Williams etc.

As to combined WAR, without his huge use of roids, hard to say how his health and ability to maintain through the long seasons would have panned out, in addition to the decrease in general production we'd have seen from a clean Bonds, to begin with.

to contextualize Bonds, he didn't make the All Century team and there was zero outrage, to show where the perception of him was before getting on the gas

 

[kupcho1]

Jim Thome and Trevor Hoffman in and Barry Bonds out  

Hall of Fame is a joke.  1st ballot?

And Bonds isn't in????

Shut it down.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Chipper was a steady, All-Star level player who I think was always in the shadow of those pitchers. 

Also stop having kids, Chip. 

 

[Doctor Detroit]

TRAM!!!!!!!!!

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Lou Whitaker has a higher career WAR than:

Reggie Jackson

Jim Thome

Frank Thomas

Johnny Mize

Alan Trammell

Barry Larkin

Miguel Cabrera

Tim Raines

Ryne Sandberg

Tony Gwynn

Roberto Alomar

and Craig Biggio

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

Did Jim Kaat ever get HOF consideration? I realize he is the definition of a "compiler", but he was excellent for a stretch and then was very good for a long time. Even at the tail end of his career, when he was in his forties, and was basically a LOOGY, he put up league average numbers.

And on a sidenote, he and Bob Costas on MLB Network are one of the better duos doing games. I really enjoy their telecasts. Kaat is still really sharp, and has great stories that don't seem forced like they do with A-Rod and Smoltz.

 

[Gawain]

I wish they just let Vlad speak. Perhaps put up an English translation on the monitors. Shame he didn't go in as an Expo.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Did Jim Kaat ever get HOF consideration? I realize he is the definition of a "compiler", but he was excellent for a stretch and then was very good for a long time. Even at the tail end of his career, when he was in his forties, and was basically a LOOGY, he put up league average numbers.

And on a sidenote, he and Bob Costas on MLB Network are one of the better duos doing games. I really enjoy their telecasts. Kaat is still really sharp, and has great stories that don't seem forced like they do with A-Rod and Smoltz.

Not that it moves the HOF needle, but he was still one of the best-fielding pitchers deep into his 30s as well.

Kaat never got close on the regular ballot. IIRC he peaked at about 30%, stayed on ballot but never got much momentum.

He got close on one of those veterans committee-type ballots (Eephus probably knows the official name) that took a second look at players from his era.

I’ve enjoyed his work as a broadcaster.  Sharp mind without too much shtick.  Maybe he gets a nod officially as a broadcaster but really as a player/broadcaster/contributor combo.

Not that it matters for HOF purposes, but IIRC Kaat was the last former Washington Senator player.  He broke into the show in DC right before the franchise moved to Minnesota.  Played in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s, winning a ring as a setup/LOOGY with the 1982 Cardinals.  

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Lou Whitaker has a higher career WAR than:

Reggie Jackson

Jim Thome

Frank Thomas

Johnny Mize

Alan Trammell

Barry Larkin

Miguel Cabrera

Tim Raines

Ryne Sandberg

Tony Gwynn

Roberto Alomar

and Craig Biggio

Awe, those guys are just a bunch of bums.