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2020 Greatest of All Time Sports Draft-Zow wins, Judges still suck (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Ilov80s
Footballguy
HW Boxing Rankings Part 2 of 3
10. (7 pt) Sonny Liston: He had a Tyson like aura around him or really we should say Tyson had a Liston aura. Sonny was mean, focused and powerful. Due to his imprisonment, he got a very late start to boxing and was occasionally suspended during his career. His record and mob connections put a lot of pressure on big name black fighters to avoid him. Leaders worried it would set the Civil Rights movement back if a criminal was the most prominent black athlete in the world. He finally did get his title shot against Floyd Patterson. Liston scored the 3rd fastest KO in HW championship history. Their rematch only lasted 4 seconds longer. Heading into the fight against Clay, Liston hadn’t lost in a decade and had won 7 of 8 by KO or TKO. The 2 fights with Cassius are more famous for their shadiness than any boxing excitement. With Liston dethroned and embarrassed, there was no more need for the upper crust of boxing to associate with him and he would spend the next 4 years KOing good but not great fighters before his untimely and suspicious death in 1970.
9. (8 pt) Wladimir Klitschko: Really tough guy to rank. On one hand, Klitschko holds the record for the longest cumulative heavyweight title reign of all time (4,382 days) and his 23 beaten title contenders are the most for a world heavyweight champion. On the other hand, he lost to Lamon Brewster and Corrie Sanders. His signature wins are Chris Byrd, Ray Mercer, Tony Thompson, Alex Povetkin and David Haye. Not exactly a list of all time greats. He lost to his toughest competition Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua to end his career but he deserves a lot of credit for having made them great fights while being over 40 years old. He carried HW boxing for a long time and really helped further popularize boxing in Eastern Europe. He also did so in a mostly boring, technical fashion. These rankings are really tough- much more so than the non-heavyweights IMO.
8. Mike Tyson (9 pt): Everyone here is familiar with the case for and against Iron Mike. His stretch before the Buster Douglas fight/incarceration was as dominant as we’ve seen in boxing. He steamrolled through what (little) the division had. He became a boxing megastar and notorious cultural icon. Tyson really put HW boxing back on center stage after the Leonard-Hearns-Hagler-Duran dominated 80s. The 2nd half of his career where he fought Lennox and Holyfield was far less iconic. The intimidation was gone. The fighters were better. The results ranged from pedestrian to pathetic.
7. (10 pt) Larry Holmes: I referenced that guys like Dempsey and Frazier retiring in their early 30s was a negative for them. Holmes is an example of a guy who maxed his longevity out. He had the 2nd longest HW reign in history and fell one win short of matching Rocky Marciano’s 49-0 record. He was 36 when Spinks knocked him out and took all the titles. For most that could have been a logical place to end their career. Holmes fought for 17 more years. He had 5 more title shots and came up short each time, but he was still competitive in most of them. The biggest thing holding him back from scoring higher is the lack of real elite wins. I guess stopping a 38 year old Muhammad Ali?
6. (11 pt) Rocky Marciano: 49-0 is one of the most famous boxing stats of all time. His KO% is still among the best ever. Only 1 fighter ever went 15 rounds with Rocky. That in theory would place him much higher on the list but Marciano only fought in 7 title fights. He would retire less than 3 years after winning the HW title. His signature wins were mostly against big names in their twilight or guys who weren’t true heavyweights. He beat Joe Louis (age 37), Jersey Joe Walcott (age 38), Charles Ezzard (would win only 8 of his next 23 fights) and Archie Moore (39 and was a light heavyweight). Lack of quality competition and such a short reign at the top of the sport really hurt Rocky with my scoring.
The top coming soon...
10. (7 pt) Sonny Liston: He had a Tyson like aura around him or really we should say Tyson had a Liston aura. Sonny was mean, focused and powerful. Due to his imprisonment, he got a very late start to boxing and was occasionally suspended during his career. His record and mob connections put a lot of pressure on big name black fighters to avoid him. Leaders worried it would set the Civil Rights movement back if a criminal was the most prominent black athlete in the world. He finally did get his title shot against Floyd Patterson. Liston scored the 3rd fastest KO in HW championship history. Their rematch only lasted 4 seconds longer. Heading into the fight against Clay, Liston hadn’t lost in a decade and had won 7 of 8 by KO or TKO. The 2 fights with Cassius are more famous for their shadiness than any boxing excitement. With Liston dethroned and embarrassed, there was no more need for the upper crust of boxing to associate with him and he would spend the next 4 years KOing good but not great fighters before his untimely and suspicious death in 1970.
9. (8 pt) Wladimir Klitschko: Really tough guy to rank. On one hand, Klitschko holds the record for the longest cumulative heavyweight title reign of all time (4,382 days) and his 23 beaten title contenders are the most for a world heavyweight champion. On the other hand, he lost to Lamon Brewster and Corrie Sanders. His signature wins are Chris Byrd, Ray Mercer, Tony Thompson, Alex Povetkin and David Haye. Not exactly a list of all time greats. He lost to his toughest competition Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua to end his career but he deserves a lot of credit for having made them great fights while being over 40 years old. He carried HW boxing for a long time and really helped further popularize boxing in Eastern Europe. He also did so in a mostly boring, technical fashion. These rankings are really tough- much more so than the non-heavyweights IMO.
8. Mike Tyson (9 pt): Everyone here is familiar with the case for and against Iron Mike. His stretch before the Buster Douglas fight/incarceration was as dominant as we’ve seen in boxing. He steamrolled through what (little) the division had. He became a boxing megastar and notorious cultural icon. Tyson really put HW boxing back on center stage after the Leonard-Hearns-Hagler-Duran dominated 80s. The 2nd half of his career where he fought Lennox and Holyfield was far less iconic. The intimidation was gone. The fighters were better. The results ranged from pedestrian to pathetic.
7. (10 pt) Larry Holmes: I referenced that guys like Dempsey and Frazier retiring in their early 30s was a negative for them. Holmes is an example of a guy who maxed his longevity out. He had the 2nd longest HW reign in history and fell one win short of matching Rocky Marciano’s 49-0 record. He was 36 when Spinks knocked him out and took all the titles. For most that could have been a logical place to end their career. Holmes fought for 17 more years. He had 5 more title shots and came up short each time, but he was still competitive in most of them. The biggest thing holding him back from scoring higher is the lack of real elite wins. I guess stopping a 38 year old Muhammad Ali?
6. (11 pt) Rocky Marciano: 49-0 is one of the most famous boxing stats of all time. His KO% is still among the best ever. Only 1 fighter ever went 15 rounds with Rocky. That in theory would place him much higher on the list but Marciano only fought in 7 title fights. He would retire less than 3 years after winning the HW title. His signature wins were mostly against big names in their twilight or guys who weren’t true heavyweights. He beat Joe Louis (age 37), Jersey Joe Walcott (age 38), Charles Ezzard (would win only 8 of his next 23 fights) and Archie Moore (39 and was a light heavyweight). Lack of quality competition and such a short reign at the top of the sport really hurt Rocky with my scoring.
The top coming soon...
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wikkidpissah
Footballguy
oh, the brutality...
I am not sure if the draft position is meaningful at this point. For me I have only had my 3 of my top 10 picks ranked so far. Only six of the top 20 (2,5,7,15,18,19). I have no idea how other teams have been ranked so far but I have had 8 of my final 10 picks ranked (only missing 58 and 60). If someone was the opposite with most of their early picks ranked and not doing well then theoretically they might be in trouble.AAABatteries said:
I think knowing which rounds you have had ranked so far should give you an idea of how you are faring at the moment. I still have two picks that should be in contention for top spots after than I have no idea. My success is that i have 16 out of 28 picks in double digit point getters.
Zegras11
Footballguy
Ok, went through all the posts at the end with changes and updated this list. Here are the remaining cats to be judged.
@timschochet CAT 53 does not have a judge at this moment.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Zegras11
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Gonna take me a few days to research Track & Field. The first 11 picks were amazingly good. 4 of the last 5 had me questioning if I had ever watched the Olympics.
But that’s the fun part, learning stuff you didn’t know.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
relief pitchers tomorrow. i read everybody's case (which i wish more judges would do - even if it means asking someone else to edit for you so you can do it without personal bias) last week, and i'm old enough that, now, i have no memory of who picked whom
Zegras11
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Best relief pitcher after suffering a heart attack didn’t get drafted?
#traveshamockery
joffer
Footballguy
Zegras11
Footballguy
joffer
Footballguy
not sure i have time to do it right. if you can find someone else that would probably be better
hagmania
Footballguy
re: greatest moment criteria
I think I got it whittled down to the following pieces of the puzzle here. Hello subjectivity!
[*]What is the context of the moment?
[*]What is the lasting image or impact?
[*]Related to above: How "great" does it look on film?
Football first
I think I got it whittled down to the following pieces of the puzzle here. Hello subjectivity!
- Without research, how much do I know about the basics of the pick?
I'm a bit younger than most all drafters here, but I do have a p good sense of and broad spectrum knowledgebase of sports history. Does your selection stand the test of time, that being filtering into the general knowledge sponge that is hag's brain?
[*]What is the context of the moment?
[*]What is the lasting image or impact?
[*]Related to above: How "great" does it look on film?
I won't be dinging the pick if there is no filmed evidence, but this could be an opportunity for some bonus points.
Football first
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I can do that as well, there only 3 players born after 1970
Major League Baseball
2. Greatest baseball player DinosaurLane
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
It seems like you are crafting the value for on field moments more than off field moments. Does this mean off the field type moments are going to be penalized?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Zegras11
Footballguy
hagmania
Footballguy
hagmania
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
CRITERIA FOR CATEGORIES 2. and 47.
adjective
1
a: existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will an arbitrary choice
When a task is not seen in a meaningful context it is experienced as being arbitrary.— Nehemiah Jordan
b: based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something
an arbitrary standard take
2
a: not restrained or limited in the exercise of power : ruling by absolute authority an arbitrary government
b: marked by or resulting from the unrestrained and often tyrannical exercise of power
3 law : depending on individual discretion (as of a judge) and not fixed by law
AND
adjective
1
a: not to be altered or undone
all sales are final
b: of or relating to a concluding court action or proceeding
final decree
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
for anyone interested, i'm using a secret formula i call the Al Hrabosky Scale as my criteria for relievers
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Zegras11
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
is there Snidely Whiplash porn?! that would be aMAZing!! boomchikkabwwwwwAAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!
#tiedtothetracksnasty
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
jwb
Footballguy
3. Greatest starting pitcher jwb.
17. Greatest running back jwb
25. Greatest NFL Team jwb
oof - I had no idea I was to judge, because after the above, it was decided drafters couldn't judge, so I prettymuch forgot about it.
I'll still take them if nobody else wants them. But anyone who wants any of these, please go ahead.
17. Greatest running back jwb
25. Greatest NFL Team jwb
oof - I had no idea I was to judge, because after the above, it was decided drafters couldn't judge, so I prettymuch forgot about it.
I'll still take them if nobody else wants them. But anyone who wants any of these, please go ahead.
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Doug B
Footballguy
Thought very, very hard about Keeler. Seemed to be too vulnerable to judging idiosyncrasy, though.
timschochet
Footballguy
@Getzlaf15 is running this draft. I haven’t really done anything since it started except make bad picks.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I want to make a note that I think our selection is not being listed properly. It’s listed as 9/21/70 NYJ vs CLE which seems like a very random choice. It’s the debut of Monday Night Football.
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Mister CIA
Footballguy
Zegras11
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy