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2020 NBA Playoffs Thread - Haters arguing that it took Lebron 10 Finals to win 4 titles (2 Viewers)
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The Z Machine
Footballguy
trader jake
Footballguy
Then why don't the Lakers have George Mikan's number hanging from the rafters? ...because he has nothing to do with Los Angeles, nor should the titles he led Minneapolis to. Get real. OKC doesn't get to claim the SuperSonics title either.
Sorry, LA basketball now has 12 titles.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
TBD. My guess is that they will start around February. Pretty sure that Christmas was the original goal but that is now off the table.
Here is what Silver said last week: NBA commissioner Adam Silver spoke to the media and said, “The 2020-21 NBA season would start around Christmas at its earliest but is much more likely to commence in January of 2021.”
Capella
Footballguy
I don’t know what they or hockey are going to do about attendance. Particularly hockey since they need fans to play, their tv contract isn’t enough to go without them. Does anybody really think we are going to have even 10,000 fans in an indoor arena by February? Outside I can sort of see, but that obviously doesn’t work for these two sports.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Maybe hockey could figure out some way to conduct a decent amount of the season in outdoor venues. I don't know if their once a season outdoor game can scale to cover it, but at least they've done it a few times recently.
I don't know how you'd work outdoor basketball across the country in winter though. I don't think a zamboni to clear snow off hardwood would turn out well. Otherwise we're looking at like 200 mop kids a game.
bryhamm
Footballguy
bryhamm
Footballguy
Zegras11
Footballguy
RUSF18
Footballguy
Next time just link the Simmons podcast where he made these same points. Not to mention that being on the same side as him on this isn't a good sign.
The entire team moved from Minneapolis to LA right? So it was (more or less) the same players from one year to the next?
If so it's a ridiculous argument to claim those titles don't belong to the same franchise.
facook
Footballguy
ftfy
In the same podcast he argued the Chiefs shouldn't rush CEH inside because he's "like 5'2" 170 lbs."
Moron.jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
This. The titles don't belong to the city--they belong to the franchise. We certainly are all guilty of associating certain cities with certain franchises--but that's something that we choose to do. That dynamic doesn't allow us to change history or the terms of how championships are counted.RUSF18 said:
To me this is pretty simple, keep the nickname, keep the history. Lose the nickname when you move, lose the history. Change nickname but remain in city, keep the history.
Lakers -> Lakers = 17 titles for the franchise
Cleveland Browns -> Baltimore Ravens = 8 titles for the Browns, 2 titles for the Ravens
Houston Oilers -> Tennessee Titans = 2 titles for Oilers (AFL), 0 titles for Titans
Washington Bullets -> Washington Wizards = 1 title for the franchise
Lakers -> Lakers = 17 titles for the franchise
Cleveland Browns -> Baltimore Ravens = 8 titles for the Browns, 2 titles for the Ravens
Houston Oilers -> Tennessee Titans = 2 titles for Oilers (AFL), 0 titles for Titans
Washington Bullets -> Washington Wizards = 1 title for the franchise
trader jake
Footballguy
The Blue Bombers should be able to rack em' up a lot faster in the CFL that way.bryhamm said:
I understand the franchise angle, but why would I be more concerned about a nickname and ownership (that will likely change hands numerous times through sales or deaths) keeping the titles vs keeping those championships with the fan base and location that supported those teams when they won? A NBA title won in Minneapolis stays in that local, period.No Boston homer here, but on this point Simmons is correct. Fans of the LA Lakers can argue the Celtics titles were won in a completely different NBA, where the number of franchises was much, much lower and diversity of player backgrounds just wasn't there, etc...making them less difficult to accrue. That's all true. At least those Celtics homers are counting titles won with their fans, in their city.RUSF18 said:
My grandfather was a big baseball fan and followed the Milwaukee Braves. His favorite player was Eddie Matthews. As a result of his fandom for the 3rd baseman he taught my dad, and eventually me, to hit left-handed (you'll need the extra step to first base anyway!) even though we threw right-handed. My old man eventually elected to solely bat from the right side and I ditched switch-hitting to hit just lefty. I could go on, but you can immediately see a connection between fans and the team that played in that area. How many dads in Atlanta taught their boys to hit left-handed because of Eddie Mathews?
Sure it does. Back in the days people did lots of things that seem non-sensical by today's standards (see Boston Celtic history) and we move to right those wrongs. There's a reason the Browns insisted their stats stay in Cleveland when the franchise moved to Baltimore and became the Ravens. Just as the city of Seattle and the basketball fans that supported that team, players, and franchise at the time a title was won get to keep it. Oklahoma City had nothing to do with it until someone made a business decision. Doesn't mean we as fans have to honor statistical achievements (including titles) like we're corporate lawyers.
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The Z Machine
Footballguy
Would it help if the Lakers retired Mikan's jersey? No one wants #99 anyway.
trader jake
Footballguy
That could be a problem:
Houston Oilers (1960–1996)
Tennessee Oilers (1997–1998)
Tennessee Titans (1999–present)
There are problems in doing it my way as well. It's certainly easier to keep all the stats, records and titles with a franchise like it's being passed down to the next generation like genetic code as the franchise changes hands, moves to new locals, etc. I don't care about all that. When they tell me the last player in Thunder basketball history to do "fill in statistical trivia here" was Gary Payton, that #### just aint right. Neither is LA claiming titles won in Minneapolis.
trader jake
Footballguy
I'd bet dollars to donuts that happens in the very near future. Now that the Lakers have tied the Celtics for NBA championships (according to the arcane title accumulation counting method some advocate for here) the Lakers franchise will want to secure that more "legitimately" by putting #99 in the rafters.
...and HOW DARE you say nobody wants to wear the Lakers #99.
YouTube link - Fletch
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JMon348
Footballguy
CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!
Crazy difference from 10 years ago. I still have the 2010 thread saved. https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/528621-consolidated-2010-nba-playoff-thread/page/158/
Crazy difference from 10 years ago. I still have the 2010 thread saved. https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/528621-consolidated-2010-nba-playoff-thread/page/158/
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Sammy3469
Footballguy
Even Bob Pettit would agree with this statement.
I actually wouldn't be surprised if he was a Theis, Olynck, etc. level player today. He had some athleticism for the time.
spodog
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
good work on this very important discussion
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
It's more like congrats to Sonics/Thunder fans. Franchises are not permanently attached to cities. Hamilton used to be an American wristwatch brand. A while ago--they moved to Switzerland. Their vintage pieces are still Hamilton's even though they are manufactured in a different country now. Teams are businesses ----and businesses move. When a business moves--they take their accomplishments with them. Anyhow--let's just agree to disagree and not further clutter this thread with this pointless discussion.Alex P Keaton said:
CGRdrJoe
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
This seems bizarre to me. It never even occurred to me that there would be people that think Rams fans no longer get to claim the titles won by Marshall Faulk and Kurt Warner. Are you all really out here acting like this is a totally new expansion franchise that is completely disconnected from those guys?Alex P Keaton said:
The Raiders have moved like 4 times and no one in their right mind considers all of their different accomplishments as part of 4 separate franchises. They're just the Raiders.
Those two kept the same nickname and did not try to distance themselves from the prior franchise. Sonics/Thunder. Browns/Ravens. Those are situations where the franchise distanced itself from the fans to establish a new identity.
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Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
The Rams moved from LA to St Louis and back to LA. It's been the same franchise the whole time. So that's a weird comparison.
The Raiders are a much better comparison, for the reasons you've mentioned. Not identical, but more similar than the Rams....
I don't personally see any real connection between the Minneapolis era and LA era of the Lakers -- but the "thread police" directed folks to move on to "important topics" so I'll bow out of this and just agree to disagree. Particularly with anyone who thinks that OKC fans feel like they have a title already. I don't know a single OKC fan who feels that way.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Morey out in Houston
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
WhoaLong Ball Larry said:
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Philly should go well with overly player friendly coach Doc... 
Enjoy Embiid's 40 games.
Before accounting for injury.
Enjoy Embiid's 40 games.
Before accounting for injury.
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DJackson10
Footballguy
I was getting ready to post this in here. Also I was gonna comment on how some fans said he'd hold Joel and Ben accountable. I asked what drugs they were on before asking if they ever followed anything Doc Rivers did in LA and the players literally walked over him especially CP3 and BG. Lue is also gonna let these Clippers walk all over him. It's all about giving the players what they want today not about what's best for the team. Gotta coddle the babies now in the NBA. Tough Love? Expect the player to go cry to his agent and the NBAPA having a phone convo with coach for that.Craig_MiamiFL said:Philly should go well with overly player friendly coach Doc...
Enjoy Embiid's 40 games.
Before accounting for injury.
DJackson10
Footballguy
In all seriousness I came to say I really need to stay away from NBA twitter. I swear some of these people commenting on stuff their only opinions are from playing NBA2K and not watching games. Some of the trade ideas I've seen want me to smack my head on the wall. Someone suggested Al Horford for Buddy Heild and getting rid of Badgely in the trade as well. Uh what? This is why it's called silly season.
Deamon
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
Only for the fact it's NBA news and I just saw it. I'd post it about anyone. I've always been Vocal how overrated I think Doc Rivers going back to the Lob City Days.
And honestly I only saw it while I was on NBA twitter for a quick minute educating some fools on how real life Basketball is not their NBA2k game and the trade override isn't on.
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