2025 College Football Thread: Jordon leaves Belichick for Sonny Dykes (19 Viewers)

[SpurrierisisGod]

Michigan kind of cheated... like not enough to really get a lifetime ban. Ncaa is toothless.

We moving on now?

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

I mean, florida quite literally murdered people. Won 2 natyys. Woohoo. Next up....

 

[Schmeabs]

Josh Pate Playoff Picks

 

[Zeppelin]

I’m a Buckeye Homer and I feel like in the 21 and 22 seasons we got ripped off by their cheating.

A Buckeye fan complaining about cheating is rich.

 

[Beef Ravioli Part 2]

I’m a Buckeye Homer and I feel like in the 21 and 22 seasons we got ripped off by their cheating.

A Buckeye fan complaining about cheating is rich.

Ok, tell me about all the cheating the Buckeyes have done.

 

[kupcho1]

I’m a Buckeye Homer and I feel like in the 21 and 22 seasons we got ripped off by their cheating.

A Buckeye fan complaining about cheating is rich.

Ok, tell me about all the cheating the Buckeyes have done.

Yeah, I'd love to pile on. Other than tattoo-gate, whatcha got?

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Other than

You know, other than cheating, what cheating did they do?

But a reminder.

Tattoogate (January 10, 2012) | Marquette University Law School

law.marquette.edu

 

[kupcho1]

Other than

You know, other than cheating, what cheating did they do?

But a reminder.

Tattoogate (January 10, 2012) | Marquette University Law School

law.marquette.edu

Yeah, that changed the outcome of a lot of games that year and years following.



Memphis Foundry , is there any way to enlarge emojis to say, the size of the sun? The default size only goes so far in expressing my disdain for this response.
Thanks, and keep up the great work.

 

[Beef Ravioli Part 2]

Other than

You know, other than cheating, what cheating did they do?

But a reminder.

Tattoogate (January 10, 2012) | Marquette University Law School

law.marquette.edu

That’s your example?

Broke the rules? Yes

Competitive advantage in games? No

Also, Ohio State fired Tressell because of this. Vacated a bunch of wins that season. Not able to go to a bowl game two seasons later after going 12-0.

 

[Desert_Power]

Josh Pate Playoff Picks

Nebraska, really?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I'm sure Ohio State has never broken an NCAA rule, never paid a player before it was legal, and has been 100% in compliance. Jesus, the games can't get here fast enough.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

It was rumored (similar to the Michigan "scandal") that OSU had hacked into Maryland tape databases was it not? We have as much evidence in front of us on that infraction as we do the Michigan infraction. Should we not treat them all the same? As soon as the conversation turns to comparing infractions as to degree of severity, we might as well move on. Michigan is back to stealing signs alongside the rest of them. That practice is never going to stop as long as teams freely broadcast what they are going to do. Maybe use the coms in the helmets?

I agree with Ramblin' Wreck that the games can't get here soon enough

 

[Schmeabs]

Josh Pate Playoff Picks

Nebraska, really?

Agreed. That seems unlikely to me too.

 

[kupcho1]

It was rumored (similar to the Michigan "scandal") that OSU had hacked into Maryland tape databases was it not? We have as much evidence in front of us on that infraction as we do the Michigan infraction.

Yeah, I don't think that's accurate. Rumor <> Evidence

 

[AAABatteries]

They all cheat.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

It was rumored (similar to the Michigan "scandal") that OSU had hacked into Maryland tape databases was it not? We have as much evidence in front of us on that infraction as we do the Michigan infraction.

Yeah, I don't think that's accurate. Rumor <> Evidence

Please share the evidence with us then. All I've seen are claims.

 

[Desert_Power]

They all cheat.

Even Vandy?

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Definitely need games to get here asap. The coping is tiresome. Deal with it. Maybe beat your rival and actually enjoy a winning season.

Getting beat with a stat line like this! Davis Warren 9/16, 62yds 2 int by your rival gets an * from us too. But but they cheated I know you don't care about that opinion, just like i don't think many Michigan fans care about yours.

We can keep going round and round, or we can let it go until "The Game". New season coming. Good luck. Texas in week two should be your concern right now if you're really a fan of your team.

 

[Max Power]

I heard that while at Ohio State Justin Fields signed up for Walking 101 and took it online.

 

[kupcho1]

It was rumored (similar to the Michigan "scandal") that OSU had hacked into Maryland tape databases was it not? We have as much evidence in front of us on that infraction as we do the Michigan infraction.

Yeah, I don't think that's accurate. Rumor <> Evidence

Please share the evidence with us then. All I've seen are claims.

Here is the report from NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions (COI). You can read it in detail if you'd like, but here are a few highlights:

• The NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions (COI) is an independent administrative bodycomprised of individuals from the NCAA Division I membership and the public charged withdeciding infractions cases involving member institutions and their staffs.
• By his own admission, Stalions expended significant resources and effort to plan the scheme, decipher signals, and document the signals for use byother staff members. In his role, Stalions had access to key members of Michigan’s coaching staff. Aspects of the record suggest that there may have been broader acceptance of the scheme throughout the program.

Is there a lot of hard evidence? No. But that isn't because evidence did not exist. It's because there was a comprehensive and wide-ranging coverup.

"At a minimum, there was a willful intent not to learn more about Stalions’ methods. However, the true scope and scale of the scheme—including the competitive advantage it conferred—will never be known due to individuals’ intentional destruction and withholding of materials and information."

I've said all I care to say on the matter. It's obvious that those that continue to question whether Michigan cheated its way to a national championship* are blind homers.

 

[Desert_Power]

I agree with Ramblin' Wreck that the games can't get here soon enough

Heading to Atlanta for the VT-SC kickoff game next weekend. Haven't been to the Georgia Dome replacement yet so looking forward to it.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

It was rumored (similar to the Michigan "scandal") that OSU had hacked into Maryland tape databases was it not? We have as much evidence in front of us on that infraction as we do the Michigan infraction.

Yeah, I don't think that's accurate. Rumor <> Evidence

Please share the evidence with us then. All I've seen are claims.

Here is the report from NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions (COI). You can read it in detail if you'd like, but here are a few highlights:

• The NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions (COI) is an independent administrative bodycomprised of individuals from the NCAA Division I membership and the public charged withdeciding infractions cases involving member institutions and their staffs.
• By his own admission, Stalions expended significant resources and effort to plan the scheme, decipher signals, and document the signals for use byother staff members. In his role, Stalions had access to key members of Michigan’s coaching staff. Aspects of the record suggest that there may have been broader acceptance of the scheme throughout the program.

Is there a lot of hard evidence? No. But that isn't because evidence did not exist. It's because there was a comprehensive and wide-ranging coverup.

"At a minimum, there was a willful intent not to learn more about Stalions’ methods. However, the true scope and scale of the scheme—including the competitive advantage it conferred—will never be known due to individuals’ intentional destruction and withholding of materials and information."

I've said all I care to say on the matter. It's obvious that those that continue to question whether Michigan cheated its way to a national championship* are blind homers.

Yeah, I read the thing. If there's a shot at getting objective evidence, I am always game. They provided excuses and subjectivity. Stalions was very clear what he did and how he did it in that documentary. He doesn't seem to have much to hide. The problem with the NCAA and their "findings" is it is very light on actual evidence. There's a lot of subjectiveness and innuendo (and that is after TWO YEARS of investigation). To be clear, this is how the NCAA always works it seems UNLESS its obvious/blatant and they have the group dead to rights (which is rare).

If the NCAA chose to investigate OSU and the alleged hacking of Maryland's film databases, you'd likely get a similar sort of report on OSU. It'd be vague. It'd be more insinuation than documented fact etc. That's just how the NCAA is. Even when there is documented, blatant cheating like the UNC basketball situation, they can figure a way to let teams off the hook, so I am not sure why people are surprised when they have that much less that they wouldn't.

Question was asked in this thread a page or two ago about the excuse of "punishing the team when the people who did the deed weren't around anymore" and if that was normal. No, it's not normal. The NCAA doesn't give a crap about the players. I think we can all agree that the NCAA and its leadership absolutely hates Jim Harbaugh. He's done more to unhinge their power than just about any other coach in college football. You can't convince me that if they had the goods, they wouldn't have gone all in on punishments. IMO, they had bits and pieces of information that sort of pointed to the narrative the OSU, MSU and ESPN crews were creating, but not all of it. They didn't go full hammer because they just didn't have the goods to do so because what Michigan is doing is in line with what the rest of college football is doing (per people at all these other schools speaking on the condition of anonymity). There's a reason the NCAA didn't come down on Michigan and its not some love affair they have.

 

[Instinctive]

It was barely even cheating. You can watch video to steal signs. You can attend a game to steal signs and take notes. You can't take video at a game to steal signs. Does that make it easier? Definitely. Does it really change that much? Having literally coached at the P5 level in a major sport...it doesn't have that big an impact. Everyone is constantly trying - hell we would call other schools that played them already and ask what they had - and everyone is pretty good at it, so everyone is generally playing a 2nd or 3rd level with calls and signs and such...it's just not that big a deal.

My opinion? I think you have to have a personal connection or an agenda or lack an understanding of what happens in gameplanning to think this is a gigantic deal. It has all the right facts - a silly guy with a funny manifesto, a team people love to hate, a huge rivalry, etc.

They definitely broke a rule. I just don't think the rule is that much or a marginal advantage. It's not like he was filming practices or walkthroughs he snuck into.

 

[Zeppelin]

The sign stealing allegations came out somewhere around mid-season. So teams they played late in the year knew about this. It had no bearing on the Ohio State game and the playoff games.

 

[Schmeabs]

Joel Klatt Playoff Picks

 

[General Malaise]

It was barely even cheating. You can watch video to steal signs. You can attend a game to steal signs and take notes. You can't take video at a game to steal signs. Does that make it easier? Definitely. Does it really change that much? Having literally coached at the P5 level in a major sport...it doesn't have that big an impact. Everyone is constantly trying - hell we would call other schools that played them already and ask what they had - and everyone is pretty good at it, so everyone is generally playing a 2nd or 3rd level with calls and signs and such...it's just not that big a deal.

My opinion? I think you have to have a personal connection or an agenda or lack an understanding of what happens in gameplanning to think this is a gigantic deal. It has all the right facts - a silly guy with a funny manifesto, a team people love to hate, a huge rivalry, etc.

They definitely broke a rule. I just don't think the rule is that much or a marginal advantage. It's not like he was filming practices or walkthroughs he snuck into.

I agree with this. I don't think the sign stealing was the reason why Michigan won the National Championship in 2023. What my eyes showed me was that this was the best team that season and they beat some pretty damn good teams to pull it off and did so under the scrutiny of the entire sports' world watching them. This wasn't a magic trick. They bulldozed the Huskies and won that game by Q2.

And Harbaugh is now having success at his 5th spot in HC life. Both college and pro. I don't think he's pulled this off by cheating his way there. He's just really really really good at his job.

 

[General Malaise]

FIVE MORE SLEEPS TO FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Max Power]

Joel Klatt Playoff Picks

I like Miami to sneak in this year. Heavy home schedule and I'm betting on a Beck bounce back season.

 

[General Malaise]

Joel Klatt Playoff Picks

I like Miami to sneak in this year. Heavy home schedule and I'm betting on a Beck bounce back season.

I have Miami finishing outside the Top 25 and Mario losing his job.

Defense was atrocious last year and they are relying on transfers in their secondary.
They lost all their WRs. They lost their dynamic RB too.

And, they have a blockhead for a head coach. Great recruiter, awful game manager. How many other HC in football at any level have survived TWO kneel down incidents that cost his team an easy victory?

 

[General Malaise]

Yes, I still have an axe to grind with Mario. It's an unreasonable take, but lord I love it when he farts from his brain.

 

[Desert_Power]

This is still the funniest branch of all of it.

 

[Max Power]

Joel Klatt Playoff Picks

I like Miami to sneak in this year. Heavy home schedule and I'm betting on a Beck bounce back season.

I have Miami finishing outside the Top 25 and Mario losing his job.

Defense was atrocious last year and they are relying on transfers in their secondary.
They lost all their WRs. They lost their dynamic RB too.

And, they have a blockhead for a head coach. Great recruiter, awful game manager. How many other HC in football at any level have survived TWO kneel down incidents that cost his team an easy victory?

All good points. I think the ACC is weak and they don't play Clemson until the ACC championship (Assuming they get there). 9 of the first 10 games are in the state of Florida with 8 at home. Schedule shapes up nicely if Beck returns to being halfway decent.

 

[General Malaise]

Joel Klatt Playoff Picks

I like Miami to sneak in this year. Heavy home schedule and I'm betting on a Beck bounce back season.

I have Miami finishing outside the Top 25 and Mario losing his job.

Defense was atrocious last year and they are relying on transfers in their secondary.
They lost all their WRs. They lost their dynamic RB too.

And, they have a blockhead for a head coach. Great recruiter, awful game manager. How many other HC in football at any level have survived TWO kneel down incidents that cost his team an easy victory?

All good points. I think the ACC is weak and they don't play Clemson until the ACC championship (Assuming they get there). 9 of the first 10 games are in the state of Florida with 8 at home. Schedule shapes up nicely if Beck returns to being halfway decent.

Apparently, Beck has looked fantastic thus far. There was a journalist from Miami on with our local sports morning show and he gave a very honest assessment of the Canes. Beck's surgery was of the 'mesh' variety, meaning he's healed up faster than expected and is looking crisp in camp. But, we'll see once the games begin. Beck had some real head scratchers last year and I'm not sure pairing him up with King Head Scratcher Cristobal is wise, but maybe two negatives make a positive?

The knock on Cristobal is well earned, IMO. His record against Top 10 teams is lousy and although he will go in and win a big game every season, he'll also lose one or two he absolutely should not. At Oregon, he goes on the road and beats Ohio State with Anthony Crap *** Brown as his QB. The next week? He lost to a 3-9 Stanford Team. HOW? He does that every. Single. Season. Until he fixes that, I don't see Miami getting over the hump.

 

[msudaisy26]

Michigan was in a major funk going on 20 years of underwhelming. They magically start cheating and win three big ten titles in a row, go to the playoffs three times in a row and win a title, but absolutely no correlation.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

They all cheat.

Even Vandy?

Some of those Vandy dudes have some highly suspicious tattoos.

 

[General Malaise]

Michigan was in a major funk going on 20 years of underwhelming. They magically start cheating and win three big ten titles in a row, go to the playoffs three times in a row and win a title, but absolutely no correlation.

The same thing could be said about Clemson. Dormant for 20 years, then two national titles. Cheating? Or just better than other teams?

Or how about Texas? Pretty crappy since winning the title in 2006. Now, one of the best team's in the country. Cheating?

Michigan has one of the biggest war chests of cash in the country and a strong appetite to win. You don't think it's possible they finally figured some things out under a coach they gave a massive contract to who has had success every place he has coached, college and pro?

Forget it. The anti-Michigan folks are going to believe cheating was the only way the Wolverines got over the hump. I'm not changing anybody's mind so I'll drop it. I don't like Michigan either, but I think it's pretty telling how much bias is as work here.

 

[msudaisy26]

Michigan was in a major funk going on 20 years of underwhelming. They magically start cheating and win three big ten titles in a row, go to the playoffs three times in a row and win a title, but absolutely no correlation.

The same thing could be said about Clemson. Dormant for 20 years, then two national titles. Cheating? Or just better than other teams?

Or how about Texas? Pretty crappy since winning the title in 2006. Now, one of the best team's in the country. Cheating?

Michigan has one of the biggest war chests of cash in the country and a strong appetite to win. You don't think it's possible they finally figured some things out under a coach they gave a massive contract to who has had success every place he has coached, college and pro?

Forget it. The anti-Michigan folks are going to believe cheating was the only way the Wolverines got over the hump. I'm not changing anybody's mind so I'll drop it. I don't like Michigan either, but I think it's pretty telling how much bias is as work here.

Just like the Michigan Homer's and apparently their immediate family think it had nothing to do with it.

You mention Clemson and I will raise you a Texas A&M. They have all the advantages and can't even with a conference title.

 

[General Malaise]

They all cheat.

Even Vandy?

Some of those Vandy dudes have some highly suspicious tattoos.

Vandy football has a much darker past than suspicious tattoos.

 

[General Malaise]

Michigan was in a major funk going on 20 years of underwhelming. They magically start cheating and win three big ten titles in a row, go to the playoffs three times in a row and win a title, but absolutely no correlation.

The same thing could be said about Clemson. Dormant for 20 years, then two national titles. Cheating? Or just better than other teams?

Or how about Texas? Pretty crappy since winning the title in 2006. Now, one of the best team's in the country. Cheating?

Michigan has one of the biggest war chests of cash in the country and a strong appetite to win. You don't think it's possible they finally figured some things out under a coach they gave a massive contract to who has had success every place he has coached, college and pro?

Forget it. The anti-Michigan folks are going to believe cheating was the only way the Wolverines got over the hump. I'm not changing anybody's mind so I'll drop it. I don't like Michigan either, but I think it's pretty telling how much bias is as work here.

Just like the Michigan Homer's and apparently their immediate family think it had nothing to do with it.

Buddy, I'm as far removed from Michigan football as anybody in here. My wife's family HATES Michigan to boot.

If anything, I think the sign stealing was stupid because they DID NOT need it to win in 2023. They were just better than everybody else and proved it.

 

[msudaisy26]

Michigan was in a major funk going on 20 years of underwhelming. They magically start cheating and win three big ten titles in a row, go to the playoffs three times in a row and win a title, but absolutely no correlation.

The same thing could be said about Clemson. Dormant for 20 years, then two national titles. Cheating? Or just better than other teams?

Or how about Texas? Pretty crappy since winning the title in 2006. Now, one of the best team's in the country. Cheating?

Michigan has one of the biggest war chests of cash in the country and a strong appetite to win. You don't think it's possible they finally figured some things out under a coach they gave a massive contract to who has had success every place he has coached, college and pro?

Forget it. The anti-Michigan folks are going to believe cheating was the only way the Wolverines got over the hump. I'm not changing anybody's mind so I'll drop it. I don't like Michigan either, but I think it's pretty telling how much bias is as work here.

Just like the Michigan Homer's and apparently their immediate family think it had nothing to do with it.

Buddy, I'm as far removed from Michigan football as anybody in here. My wife's family HATES Michigan to boot.

If anything, I think the sign stealing was stupid because they DID NOT need it to win in 2023. They were just better than everybody else and proved it.

So it didn't help and they didn't need it, but they did it anyways? For funsies

I apologize. I think I confused you wirh Capella. Maybe it is his family that are Michigan fans.

 

[General Malaise]

Michigan was in a major funk going on 20 years of underwhelming. They magically start cheating and win three big ten titles in a row, go to the playoffs three times in a row and win a title, but absolutely no correlation.

The same thing could be said about Clemson. Dormant for 20 years, then two national titles. Cheating? Or just better than other teams?

Or how about Texas? Pretty crappy since winning the title in 2006. Now, one of the best team's in the country. Cheating?

Michigan has one of the biggest war chests of cash in the country and a strong appetite to win. You don't think it's possible they finally figured some things out under a coach they gave a massive contract to who has had success every place he has coached, college and pro?

Forget it. The anti-Michigan folks are going to believe cheating was the only way the Wolverines got over the hump. I'm not changing anybody's mind so I'll drop it. I don't like Michigan either, but I think it's pretty telling how much bias is as work here.

Just like the Michigan Homer's and apparently their immediate family think it had nothing to do with it.

Buddy, I'm as far removed from Michigan football as anybody in here. My wife's family HATES Michigan to boot.

If anything, I think the sign stealing was stupid because they DID NOT need it to win in 2023. They were just better than everybody else and proved it.

So it didn't help and they didn't need it, but they did it anyways? For funsies

I apologize. I think I confused you wirh Capella. Maybe it is his family that are Michigan fans.

Capella is a much better cook. Yeah, his wife's fam is full of Michigan fans. My wife's fam all went to Central, Western or State and they all LOATHE Michigan. And their fans. Mostly their fans.

I don't know why they did it but cheating is - sadly - ubiquitous in all sports at all levels. I think Stallions was just better at it until he got caught. Or, put another way, was willing to push the boundaries further than others had pushed them. Maybe to see if he could? I dunno, but he's done working in college sports for life. Hope it was worth it.

Fun fact: His mom was my wife's basketball coach at Lake Orion. Connor was a little baby in a backpack back then. He probably picked up sign stealing early.

 

[msudaisy26]

Michigan was in a major funk going on 20 years of underwhelming. They magically start cheating and win three big ten titles in a row, go to the playoffs three times in a row and win a title, but absolutely no correlation.

The same thing could be said about Clemson. Dormant for 20 years, then two national titles. Cheating? Or just better than other teams?

Or how about Texas? Pretty crappy since winning the title in 2006. Now, one of the best team's in the country. Cheating?

Michigan has one of the biggest war chests of cash in the country and a strong appetite to win. You don't think it's possible they finally figured some things out under a coach they gave a massive contract to who has had success every place he has coached, college and pro?

Forget it. The anti-Michigan folks are going to believe cheating was the only way the Wolverines got over the hump. I'm not changing anybody's mind so I'll drop it. I don't like Michigan either, but I think it's pretty telling how much bias is as work here.

Just like the Michigan Homer's and apparently their immediate family think it had nothing to do with it.

Buddy, I'm as far removed from Michigan football as anybody in here. My wife's family HATES Michigan to boot.

If anything, I think the sign stealing was stupid because they DID NOT need it to win in 2023. They were just better than everybody else and proved it.

So it didn't help and they didn't need it, but they did it anyways? For funsies

I apologize. I think I confused you wirh Capella. Maybe it is his family that are Michigan fans.

Capella is a much better cook. Yeah, his wife's fam is full of Michigan fans. My wife's fam all went to Central, Western or State and they all LOATHE Michigan. And their fans. Mostly their fans.

I don't know why they did it but cheating is - sadly - ubiquitous in all sports at all levels. I think Stallions was just better at it until he got caught. Or, put another way, was willing to push the boundaries further than others had pushed them. Maybe to see if he could? I dunno, but he's done working in college sports for life. Hope it was worth it.

Fun fact: His mom was my wife's basketball coach at Lake Orion. Connor was a little baby in a backpack back then. He probably picked up sign stealing early.

Fun fact I went to Clarkston High school, about 20 minutes from Lake Orion.

I am guessing they started cheating because Harbaugh was on the hot seat. He just took a pay cut to come back, from 2000 to 2020 Michigan wasn't top 10 in wins in college football, they only won the big ten twice and only once outright despite all the advantages they had for the better part 25 years. This wasn't up to Michigan standards.

We will have to agree to disagree on how much it helped and when it stopped helping.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Michigan was in a major funk going on 20 years of underwhelming. They magically start cheating and win three big ten titles in a row, go to the playoffs three times in a row and win a title, but absolutely no correlation.

There was very much a correlation. That's easy to establish. What hasn't been established is the causation that so many of you have claimed. They should easily back to the 6 win seasons this year if this was all cheating. We'll find out this year I guess.

 

[msudaisy26]

Michigan was in a major funk going on 20 years of underwhelming. They magically start cheating and win three big ten titles in a row, go to the playoffs three times in a row and win a title, but absolutely no correlation.

There was very much a correlation. That's easy to establish. What hasn't been established is the causation that so many of you have claimed.

I was being cheeky.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Michigan was in a major funk going on 20 years of underwhelming. They magically start cheating and win three big ten titles in a row, go to the playoffs three times in a row and win a title, but absolutely no correlation.

There was very much a correlation. That's easy to establish. What hasn't been established is the causation that so many of you have claimed.

I was being cheeky.

This whole time? Because you seem very invested in Michigan only being successful because of their cheating. What doesn't square for me with these theories are the blowout losses in playoff games or inexplicable losses in playoff games. Was that all part of their ruse/plan?

 

[General Malaise]

Michigan was in a major funk going on 20 years of underwhelming. They magically start cheating and win three big ten titles in a row, go to the playoffs three times in a row and win a title, but absolutely no correlation.

The same thing could be said about Clemson. Dormant for 20 years, then two national titles. Cheating? Or just better than other teams?

Or how about Texas? Pretty crappy since winning the title in 2006. Now, one of the best team's in the country. Cheating?

Michigan has one of the biggest war chests of cash in the country and a strong appetite to win. You don't think it's possible they finally figured some things out under a coach they gave a massive contract to who has had success every place he has coached, college and pro?

Forget it. The anti-Michigan folks are going to believe cheating was the only way the Wolverines got over the hump. I'm not changing anybody's mind so I'll drop it. I don't like Michigan either, but I think it's pretty telling how much bias is as work here.

Just like the Michigan Homer's and apparently their immediate family think it had nothing to do with it.

Buddy, I'm as far removed from Michigan football as anybody in here. My wife's family HATES Michigan to boot.

If anything, I think the sign stealing was stupid because they DID NOT need it to win in 2023. They were just better than everybody else and proved it.

So it didn't help and they didn't need it, but they did it anyways? For funsies

I apologize. I think I confused you wirh Capella. Maybe it is his family that are Michigan fans.

Capella is a much better cook. Yeah, his wife's fam is full of Michigan fans. My wife's fam all went to Central, Western or State and they all LOATHE Michigan. And their fans. Mostly their fans.

I don't know why they did it but cheating is - sadly - ubiquitous in all sports at all levels. I think Stallions was just better at it until he got caught. Or, put another way, was willing to push the boundaries further than others had pushed them. Maybe to see if he could? I dunno, but he's done working in college sports for life. Hope it was worth it.

Fun fact: His mom was my wife's basketball coach at Lake Orion. Connor was a little baby in a backpack back then. He probably picked up sign stealing early.

Fun fact I went to Clarkston High school, about 20 minutes from Lake Orion.

I am guessing they started cheating because Harbaugh was on the hot seat. He just took a pay cut to come back, from 2000 to 2020 Michigan wasn't top 10 in wins in college football, they only won the big ten twice and only once outright despite all the advantages they had for the better part 25 years. This wasn't up to Michigan standards.

We will have to agree to disagree on how much it helped and when it stopped helping.

Was in lovely Clarkston this past Dec for Xmas. Wife's sister lives there, not far from Pine Knob.

I couldn't remember the name of the place we used to go to al the time for pizza and beer not far from Clarkston - sort of in between there and LO. I Googled and this is how I learned The Clansman is permanently closed? Man....wasn't the best pizza or service but they had a smoking deal on pizza and pitchers of beer for cheap, IIRC. Plus the kids could run around outside largely unsupervised. Big fan of that.

 

[pollardsvision]

GB Michigan.

They really had a pizza joint called The Clansman?

 

[msudaisy26]

Michigan was in a major funk going on 20 years of underwhelming. They magically start cheating and win three big ten titles in a row, go to the playoffs three times in a row and win a title, but absolutely no correlation.

The same thing could be said about Clemson. Dormant for 20 years, then two national titles. Cheating? Or just better than other teams?

Or how about Texas? Pretty crappy since winning the title in 2006. Now, one of the best team's in the country. Cheating?

Michigan has one of the biggest war chests of cash in the country and a strong appetite to win. You don't think it's possible they finally figured some things out under a coach they gave a massive contract to who has had success every place he has coached, college and pro?

Forget it. The anti-Michigan folks are going to believe cheating was the only way the Wolverines got over the hump. I'm not changing anybody's mind so I'll drop it. I don't like Michigan either, but I think it's pretty telling how much bias is as work here.

Just like the Michigan Homer's and apparently their immediate family think it had nothing to do with it.

Buddy, I'm as far removed from Michigan football as anybody in here. My wife's family HATES Michigan to boot.

If anything, I think the sign stealing was stupid because they DID NOT need it to win in 2023. They were just better than everybody else and proved it.

So it didn't help and they didn't need it, but they did it anyways? For funsies

I apologize. I think I confused you wirh Capella. Maybe it is his family that are Michigan fans.

Capella is a much better cook. Yeah, his wife's fam is full of Michigan fans. My wife's fam all went to Central, Western or State and they all LOATHE Michigan. And their fans. Mostly their fans.

I don't know why they did it but cheating is - sadly - ubiquitous in all sports at all levels. I think Stallions was just better at it until he got caught. Or, put another way, was willing to push the boundaries further than others had pushed them. Maybe to see if he could? I dunno, but he's done working in college sports for life. Hope it was worth it.

Fun fact: His mom was my wife's basketball coach at Lake Orion. Connor was a little baby in a backpack back then. He probably picked up sign stealing early.

Fun fact I went to Clarkston High school, about 20 minutes from Lake Orion.

I am guessing they started cheating because Harbaugh was on the hot seat. He just took a pay cut to come back, from 2000 to 2020 Michigan wasn't top 10 in wins in college football, they only won the big ten twice and only once outright despite all the advantages they had for the better part 25 years. This wasn't up to Michigan standards.

We will have to agree to disagree on how much it helped and when it stopped helping.

Was in lovely Clarkston this past Dec for Xmas. Wife's sister lives there, not far from Pine Knob.

I couldn't remember the name of the place we used to go to al the time for pizza and beer not far from Clarkston - sort of in between there and LO. I Googled and this is how I learned The Clansman is permanently closed? Man....wasn't the best pizza or service but they had a smoking deal on pizza and pitchers of beer for cheap, IIRC. Plus the kids could run around outside largely unsupervised. Big fan of that.

My mom still lives about 3 miles from Pine Knob. Never had that pizza. We live about 20 minutes southwest of Clarkston and don't get over the Lake Orion way very often.

 

[General Malaise]

GB Michigan.

They really had a pizza joint called The Clansman?

Yup, though they changed it to something less KKK-y before permanently closing.

 

[msudaisy26]

Michigan was in a major funk going on 20 years of underwhelming. They magically start cheating and win three big ten titles in a row, go to the playoffs three times in a row and win a title, but absolutely no correlation.

There was very much a correlation. That's easy to establish. What hasn't been established is the causation that so many of you have claimed.

I was being cheeky.

This whole time? Because you seem very invested in Michigan only being successful because of their cheating. What doesn't square for me with these theories are the blowout losses in playoff games or inexplicable losses in playoff games. Was that all part of their ruse/plan?

Georgia was just better and dominate their other loses were a close one to MSU, when MSU ran no huddle for the first time and to TCU who they didn't scout because they didn't think TCU was going to make it after their Big 12 title game loss and TCU was told they might have their signs and had month to change signs. Plus throwing two pick sixes.