TartanLion
Footballguy
I like the look of this Waldron guy. Passing coach at the Rams, has seen things up and close there under McVey and worked with the Patriots in the mid 2000s, 3 years at the same time as Patricia
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
2025 Detroit Lions: 1-1 Lion crush Da Bears. Still seats available on the Bandwagon. (110 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
higgins
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Sermed prescient. Thought they were going SOL it even though that was 6-7 before WCF. Up 17-0 at the half & 24-7 after the 3rd. IDK how much time was left when Crazy Legs caught that 76 yarder but I was getting nervous.
jtp1982
Footballguy
+1 you have to have somebody Patrica has worked with and respects at OC for this to workout.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Looking back 11 months, conventional wisdom was the best course was to hire a defensive minded coach but retain JBC. It wasn’t completely insane; Stafford was coming off the statistically best 2-1/2 year stretch of his career and the OC was widely credited for that.
In hindsight we would have been better off ceding full control instead of lip service autonomy. Go get your guy, the organization will be better for it. Matthew is a big boy now, he’ll adapt. I just cannot think of very many situations where halfway commitments work out.
In hindsight we would have been better off ceding full control instead of lip service autonomy. Go get your guy, the organization will be better for it. Matthew is a big boy now, he’ll adapt. I just cannot think of very many situations where halfway commitments work out.
Last edited by a moderator:
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Good points. The whole process including HC would have best been done as soon as the GM was hired. One piece at a time just delays things.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Location. In less than one year away from the lions he has as many tds as his 4 years with the lions. Hard to believe he would suddenly be doing that in detroit.
Last edited by a moderator:
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Lionsfan011
Footballguy
4-8 and finishing the season with Arizona, Buffalo, Minnesota and Green Bay. It's time for the annual tradition of winning some meaningless games at the end of the season to ensure they draft in the teens and miss out on the elite prospects. Guaranteed they'll find a way to finish 2-2 or 3-1. SOL
Any other UM fans amused that Brady Hoke didn't even last a season as a Panthers assistant? I don't know if Hoke was the worst Michigan coach in recent memory (Rich Rodriguez might have a thing or two to say about that) but he was definitely the most embarrassing.
matuski
Footballguy
My wish list there would be J Allen, Oliver, J Williams (ALA).
Until they have a winning record draft 90% OL/DL.
Last edited by a moderator:
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Right, RR had the worse record. Brady did have that one good season, and I believe he is the only UM coach to beat Ohio State since Carr retired (during the Tressel/Meyer interregnum). But good lord, what a doofus.
(Apologies for the digression, but are we really excited to talk about the Lions at this point?)
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I really think that Michigan will beat Ohio sometime soon. But beating the alabamas and clemsons of the world is a whole tougher realm.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Ten seasons in, what to make of Matthew Stafford and his future
MICHAEL ROTHSTEIN
ESPN Staff Writer
ALLEN PARK, Mich. -- The question has come up often this season, posed to Detroit Lions coach Matt Patricia, to offensive coordinator Jim Bob Cooter, to other players and even to Matthew Staffordhimself.
What has been going on with the franchise quarterback this year? Why has he played at a level that hasn’t been commensurate with what he has done in the past? And what, as he finishes his 10th season in Detroit -- another season without a winning record, a division title or, likely, a playoff berth -- does it all mean for the present and the future of Stafford with the Lions?
The immediate present is that Stafford is going nowhere, at least not for the 2019 season. The contract extension he signed, which would incur almost a $30 million cap hit if the team were to trade him this offseason, is too limiting. He’ll have at least next season, perhaps with a new offensive coordinator, to show that this season was an aberration instead of a regression.
But is he a quarterback with whom the Lions can win?
“Certainly, [he] is a leader of our team from a standpoint of his work ethic, his toughness, his energy, the way he pushes, the way that he drives to go out and compete every single day,” Patricia said. “As a coach, you want players that are going to go out there and try to work hard to get better, and that’s what he does every single day. So again, he’s the guy that leads our team, leads our offense. And he’s put in some really tough situations, and he sticks them out and pushes through and just does a great job of continually going after it.
“For us, that’s what we’re banking on, and that’s what he gives us, and we’re pushing forward with that.”
For 10 years, the Lions have banked on it, from taking Stafford with the No. 1 overall pick in 2009 to giving him a then-NFL record $135 million contract before the start of the 2017 season to keep him with the Lions, in theory, through at least 2022.
He’s also one of the few quarterbacks in the Super Bowl era who has played 10 years with one team. That is somewhat even more surprising because of the relative lack of success he has had in that time period. Yet Detroit has stuck with Stafford no matter what.
In the Super Bowl era, only 44 quarterbacks including Stafford have played 10 seasons with one team -- some didn’t do so consecutively -- and started at least one game in each of those seasons. Some quarterbacks, such as Brett Favre, went to other teams as well. Of those 44, only nine had losing records -- something Stafford will have even if the Lions win their four remaining games -- in their tenures with the team. Stafford, with a 64-73 record, has the fourth-worst win percentage among quarterbacks who have played 10 seasons for one team. Only Archie Manning (35-91-3 with New Orleans), Mike Livingston (31-44-1 with Kansas City) and Steve Bartkowski (56-69 with Atlanta) have done worse.
None of those quarterbacks lasted more than 11 seasons with his club.
Of the 44, only nine either never made the Pro Bowl or appeared just once, including Stafford (and former Lions quarterback Greg Landry). Just seven -- Manning, Livingston, Landry, Brian Sipe, Jim Hart, Steve Grogan and Stafford -- have never won a playoff game. Stafford and Grogan are the 10-year guys with the most playoff losses without a win, with three.
In this pass-happy era of the NFL, nine active quarterbacks have been with their teams for 10 seasons or more. Stafford is the only one with a win percentage under .500 and the only one not to win a playoff game. Actually, all of the other active quarterbacks have a minimum of four playoff wins -- Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers -- and they are the only other quarterbacks with under-.500 playoff records with 10 years with their teams. Other than Stafford and Joe Flacco, all have been to at least four Pro Bowls as well.
Stafford’s career statistics are undeniably good: 37,835 yards, 234 touchdowns and 129 interceptions, and he is one of a handful of players to have thrown for 5,000 yards in a season. His career is a tough one to judge, too. He came in taking over the first 0-16 team in NFL history, so his first two years in Detroit were awful. The Lions had a combined 3-10 record that, if it were stricken from his ledger, Stafford would still be under .500 in his career but at a more palatable 61-63.
Stafford is also on his third head coach, third offensive coordinator and second general manager. Some, such as Jim Caldwell, have made better progress with Stafford than others. None, though, seemingly has made the most of the talent he has, with the closest coming in 2016 and 2017 with Caldwell, Cooter and an offense that took chances downfield while trying to control clock.
This season hasn’t been kind. Stafford is on pace for his fewest yards since 2010, a career high in sacks and his most interceptions since 2013, when he was in an offense that took more chances and went deep far more often under Scott Linehan.
It all leads to the same question in a tough season: Is Stafford a quarterback you can win big with? That’s the answer Lions management needs to figure out over the next season-plus.
If he is, they need to work on supporting that. If he isn't, the Lions need to start putting together an exit strategy -- either via trade or by drafting his potential replacement -- for the long-term future of the franchise.
ESPN Staff Writer
ALLEN PARK, Mich. -- The question has come up often this season, posed to Detroit Lions coach Matt Patricia, to offensive coordinator Jim Bob Cooter, to other players and even to Matthew Staffordhimself.
What has been going on with the franchise quarterback this year? Why has he played at a level that hasn’t been commensurate with what he has done in the past? And what, as he finishes his 10th season in Detroit -- another season without a winning record, a division title or, likely, a playoff berth -- does it all mean for the present and the future of Stafford with the Lions?
The immediate present is that Stafford is going nowhere, at least not for the 2019 season. The contract extension he signed, which would incur almost a $30 million cap hit if the team were to trade him this offseason, is too limiting. He’ll have at least next season, perhaps with a new offensive coordinator, to show that this season was an aberration instead of a regression.
But is he a quarterback with whom the Lions can win?
“Certainly, [he] is a leader of our team from a standpoint of his work ethic, his toughness, his energy, the way he pushes, the way that he drives to go out and compete every single day,” Patricia said. “As a coach, you want players that are going to go out there and try to work hard to get better, and that’s what he does every single day. So again, he’s the guy that leads our team, leads our offense. And he’s put in some really tough situations, and he sticks them out and pushes through and just does a great job of continually going after it.
“For us, that’s what we’re banking on, and that’s what he gives us, and we’re pushing forward with that.”
For 10 years, the Lions have banked on it, from taking Stafford with the No. 1 overall pick in 2009 to giving him a then-NFL record $135 million contract before the start of the 2017 season to keep him with the Lions, in theory, through at least 2022.
He’s also one of the few quarterbacks in the Super Bowl era who has played 10 years with one team. That is somewhat even more surprising because of the relative lack of success he has had in that time period. Yet Detroit has stuck with Stafford no matter what.
In the Super Bowl era, only 44 quarterbacks including Stafford have played 10 seasons with one team -- some didn’t do so consecutively -- and started at least one game in each of those seasons. Some quarterbacks, such as Brett Favre, went to other teams as well. Of those 44, only nine had losing records -- something Stafford will have even if the Lions win their four remaining games -- in their tenures with the team. Stafford, with a 64-73 record, has the fourth-worst win percentage among quarterbacks who have played 10 seasons for one team. Only Archie Manning (35-91-3 with New Orleans), Mike Livingston (31-44-1 with Kansas City) and Steve Bartkowski (56-69 with Atlanta) have done worse.
None of those quarterbacks lasted more than 11 seasons with his club.
Of the 44, only nine either never made the Pro Bowl or appeared just once, including Stafford (and former Lions quarterback Greg Landry). Just seven -- Manning, Livingston, Landry, Brian Sipe, Jim Hart, Steve Grogan and Stafford -- have never won a playoff game. Stafford and Grogan are the 10-year guys with the most playoff losses without a win, with three.
In this pass-happy era of the NFL, nine active quarterbacks have been with their teams for 10 seasons or more. Stafford is the only one with a win percentage under .500 and the only one not to win a playoff game. Actually, all of the other active quarterbacks have a minimum of four playoff wins -- Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers -- and they are the only other quarterbacks with under-.500 playoff records with 10 years with their teams. Other than Stafford and Joe Flacco, all have been to at least four Pro Bowls as well.
Stafford’s career statistics are undeniably good: 37,835 yards, 234 touchdowns and 129 interceptions, and he is one of a handful of players to have thrown for 5,000 yards in a season. His career is a tough one to judge, too. He came in taking over the first 0-16 team in NFL history, so his first two years in Detroit were awful. The Lions had a combined 3-10 record that, if it were stricken from his ledger, Stafford would still be under .500 in his career but at a more palatable 61-63.
Stafford is also on his third head coach, third offensive coordinator and second general manager. Some, such as Jim Caldwell, have made better progress with Stafford than others. None, though, seemingly has made the most of the talent he has, with the closest coming in 2016 and 2017 with Caldwell, Cooter and an offense that took chances downfield while trying to control clock.
This season hasn’t been kind. Stafford is on pace for his fewest yards since 2010, a career high in sacks and his most interceptions since 2013, when he was in an offense that took more chances and went deep far more often under Scott Linehan.
It all leads to the same question in a tough season: Is Stafford a quarterback you can win big with? That’s the answer Lions management needs to figure out over the next season-plus.
If he is, they need to work on supporting that. If he isn't, the Lions need to start putting together an exit strategy -- either via trade or by drafting his potential replacement -- for the long-term future of the franchise.
matuski
Footballguy
More lazy vomiting at the mouth about Stafford.
The Lions worrying about "winning big"? LOL
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Slay is the only other player than Stafford to make the NFL top 100 player list either of the last 2 years. Hard to think he dropped off that quick. Maybe an offseason will help with whatever his current problem is.
Last edited by a moderator:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
He showed up on the injury report today (ankle.)
He didn’t finish the 49ers game in Week 2 because of a concussion, then missed the first Chicago game because of a knee injury. He’s was listed as questionable for three other games.
Still got wheels, that hustle play to chase down DJ Moore from the opposite side of the field was a game changer (Panthers missed the FG.) I think NextGenStats clocked him at something absurd like 21.87 mph.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
why on earth would you play the Lions defense? get the NYG vs butt fumble...way better option...
Anyway, the Lions will probably go 3-1 down the stretch and jack up a potiental top 5 pick and impact player...…..
Anyway, the Lions will probably go 3-1 down the stretch and jack up a potiental top 5 pick and impact player...…..
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Stafford questionable (back), has been limited all week
Has started 124 straight, 6th longest streak in NFL history for Quarterbacks
Has played the most snaps of any QB the last two years & taken the most sacks
Has started 124 straight, 6th longest streak in NFL history for Quarterbacks
Has played the most snaps of any QB the last two years & taken the most sacks
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I don't get this narrative at all....sounds like Valenti on the radio....coachs & GMs get fired for losing, players lose their jobs and paychecks for losing.....some players legacy and contract incentives are on the line......playing Ruddock or Cassell doesn't seem like its a good move to me....sure "tanking" sounds good, but there isn't an Andrew Luck or even a Baker Mayfield that the lions need to get at the top of this draft.....
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I'm not looking to tank as much as to save banged up vets while seeing what the bench guys still have to offer. Might tell them a little more as to who to keep and who to replace next year.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Big Play Slay put this one away. Wasn’t even expected to play today. Just like he changed the momentum of the Carolina chasing down DJ Moore on a play he ran about 120 yards from across the field. Or a few years ago when he keyed & then sealed the most unlikely of comebacks with a forced fumble & interception - both in the closing minutes - versus the Eagles.
Hasn’t been his best year but that’s a superstar who is sick & tired of losing. Meaningless win / wrecks their draft position? Whatever. They had lost six straight in the desert, I’d rather build on a positive then see them give up.
Hasn’t been his best year but that’s a superstar who is sick & tired of losing. Meaningless win / wrecks their draft position? Whatever. They had lost six straight in the desert, I’d rather build on a positive then see them give up.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
To a man all the players blame the 12 (twelve!) injuries on the terrible field conditions. They also said the outdoor practices Patricia put them through (& many criticized) were a key factor in adjusting.
I’m a firm believer that it’s important to finish strong regardless of playoff outcome. These are character builders, the players look at it as “us against the world, even our own fans don’t want us to win rn, but we play for each before anyone else.” It shows mental toughness.
Also like to hear the players defending & crediting their HC. Hasn’t been a great first year - Caldwell was one off the franchise record on his initial campaign - but taking the long view, it’s far more important for them to play hard for MP than it is to maintain or improve their draft position with nearly 20% of the schedule remaining.
I’m a firm believer that it’s important to finish strong regardless of playoff outcome. These are character builders, the players look at it as “us against the world, even our own fans don’t want us to win rn, but we play for each before anyone else.” It shows mental toughness.
Also like to hear the players defending & crediting their HC. Hasn’t been a great first year - Caldwell was one off the franchise record on his initial campaign - but taking the long view, it’s far more important for them to play hard for MP than it is to maintain or improve their draft position with nearly 20% of the schedule remaining.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
That’s most likely Ezekiel Ansah’s last down as a Lion. That was a staple of Mayhew drafts, taking injury prone players at a discount & hoping they pay off. Mikel LeShore, Ryan Broyles, and probably a few more I’m forgetting. Ziggy was great in 2015 but it’s time to move on.
Teez was a healthy scratch for the third straight game despite injuries. I’ll be shocked if he’s still on the 53 man by Week 17. Huge whiff - 2nd rounders need to be starters if not Pro Bowlers, such a waste & now they’ll be taking another Day One/Day Two CB in 2019.
Weird game due to Stafford’s limitations because of the back injury. It’s like he regressed from the Pop Warner game plan we’ve been seeing to a Grade school teams “no passes over 5 yards” scheme. Another forgettable day for the TEs unless your FF team benefitted from Ebron’s 13th score. Surreal.
Cards are a turrible offense but give the D credit for not playing down to their level. The interior lineman are a huge building block, playing at a very high level all year.
Teez was a healthy scratch for the third straight game despite injuries. I’ll be shocked if he’s still on the 53 man by Week 17. Huge whiff - 2nd rounders need to be starters if not Pro Bowlers, such a waste & now they’ll be taking another Day One/Day Two CB in 2019.
Weird game due to Stafford’s limitations because of the back injury. It’s like he regressed from the Pop Warner game plan we’ve been seeing to a Grade school teams “no passes over 5 yards” scheme. Another forgettable day for the TEs unless your FF team benefitted from Ebron’s 13th score. Surreal.
Cards are a turrible offense but give the D credit for not playing down to their level. The interior lineman are a huge building block, playing at a very high level all year.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I don't think Leshore had a significan injrury history in college. He just tore his achilles in TC of his rookie year and never recovered fully.That’s most likely Ezekiel Ansah’s last down as a Lion. That was a staple of Mayhew drafts, taking injury prone players at a discount & hoping they pay off. Mikel LeShore, Ryan Broyles, and probably a few more I’m forgetting. Ziggy was great in 2015 but it’s time to move on.
Teez was a healthy scratch for the third straight game despite injuries. I’ll be shocked if he’s still on the 53 man by Week 17. Huge whiff - 2nd rounders need to be starters if not Pro Bowlers, such a waste & now they’ll be taking another step by the time of your hospitality in life to a good time of year old manDay One/Day Two CB in 2019.
Weird game due to Stafford’s limitations because of the back injury. It’s like he regressed from the Pop Warner game plan we’ve been seeing to a Grade school teams “no passes over 5 yards” scheme. Another forgettable day for the TEs unless your FF team benefitted from Ebron’s 13th score. Surreal.
Cards are a turrible offense but give the D credit for not playing down to their level. The interior lineman are a huge building block, playing at a very high level all year.
Teez is done for. We are playing guys who weren't on an NFL roster 3 weeks ago oper him.
The defensive interior line play is probably the only area of the Lions that has performed better than expected. DT and RB are probably the only positions where I think we are better off than last year. Everything else looks like when have gone in reverse.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Looking ahead to a top ten draft pick, edge rusher should be #1 imo.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Highest priority needs look like edge rusher, corner, safety, slot WR and TE.
We still have issues with linebacker and we need a new grinder to replace Blount. We also need a plan for RG.
Not great.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Some of that can be free agents, decent amount of cap space. Vet te who can get open and catch the ball, another blount type if they move on from him. That would open up the draft to be mainly defense. Maybe a FA slot guy, too.
Last edited by a moderator:
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Oh, and a new OC who doesn't neuter the main strength of his qb.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah, definitely need to address some of that in FA. I think edge and corner have to be tops on our list for how we spend that 1st round pick.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
As for the receiver issue, I actually do think it is a major problem not having a true slot or TE threat. The Lions do not have anyone who can do damage in the middle of the field. Marvin is very good, but strictly operates on the boundary and has a limited number of routes. Golladay is strong and athletic, but his skills seem to work best in the RZ and in similar sideline routes as Marvin. They are really similar in how the Lions are using them. Maybe that is partly just poor scheming by the OC. The Lions have to have a good threat in the middle and signing Adam Humphries or a washed up TE isn't going to cut it.
