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2025 Detroit Lions: 1-1 Lion crush Da Bears. Still seats available on the Bandwagon. (162 Viewers)

BobbyLayne said:
I’m not an expert but my reading is they have to put him on the 53 man by Saturday in order to have on the 46 man active roster on game day. Somebody will have to be cut.

Whilr it seems like a no-brainer, we have a ton of injuries at LB and OL. Caldwell gave his usual taciturn response (“we’ll have to see”) when asked at his presser.

The coaches say they’re not doing anything different but it’s obvious creating turnovers became a point of emphasis this year. Several players have mention they’re running drills in stripping the ball - especially from behind or the blindside - and doing top drills to end every practice.

Of the top 7 teams in turnover differential in 2016, 6 won their division. The Lions at +9 (11-2) is two better than the next most. Stafford threw a pick six (Tate ran into a defender & didn’t finish his route) on his first pass of the year, lost a fumble in Week 2. We won’t force 3-4 turnovers every game but if we take care of the ball this defense is pretty good, especially Zettel, Davis, and the DBs.
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Yep totally. I have the Detroit Lions app and watch all the pressers and post march interviews and so on. I think the ball stripping thing was even first mentioned by Stafford after week 1 in the post match interview he said something along the lines of ' the whole defence are constantly knocking away and stealing balls from the us ( the O ),even when we are just running over to a huddle or in between drills they appear and knock the ball straight out our hands'. Interesting. 

Whether it's Caldwell or Austin that have created it, I'm not sure, but several players on the D constantly refer to a closeness/togetherness amongst each other. The last ones I saw saying it were Zettel and Killebrew. Words like 'love' wee being thrown about.  A lot of times this is just rhetoric or general coach speak being  repeated, but in this case I do think the coaching staff and Quinn have created a good blend of characters and ages on the D and there seems to be a high degree of accountability amongst them and a real strong bond. 

Killebrew vastly impressed me in the last interview I saw. Very intelligent, articulate and considered in his responses. Easy to write off NFL players as meatheads but I'm constantly amazed by the professionalism, amount of study and work that gets put in, way of carrying themselves and speaking intelligently,  that I see from NFL players. Honestly, they put soccer players to shame.  On a weekly basis I see more interesting and articulate interviews from NFL players than I've ever seen from soccer players in the EPL. I put it down to a high level of coaching and study that goes into the sport all the way back to high school. It instills this mentality into football players from a very young age. 

Woops, kind of went off on a tangent there. 

 
Megaton said:
This is a good team in a league of mediocrity. There is nobody that should scare them, but they could easily lose to any team.  It is all about staying healthy because they are thin everywhere.  
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Previous teams could lose to any team but I'm not buying that narrative now. Any given Sunday sure, it's  the NFL but this team beats 75% of the league every week because they don't  beat themselves. +9 turnover ratio, not sure about penalties but it seems reasonably low, and they are unwavering in crunch time. That's winning football especially in the mediocre league you mention.

 
The teams I think are better than the Lions:

Chiefs, Broncos, Patriots, Steelers, and Falcons. Not sure about the Packers yet.  

 
Megaton said:
The teams I think are better than the Lions:

Chiefs, Broncos, Patriots, Steelers, and Falcons. Not sure about the Packers yet.  
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Patriots with a full complement of their players and I'd agree but their D is awful and their current offense can't save it. Pittsburgh is a mess. Big Ben is showing his age and playing like a guy who has one foot out the door as he hinted at this past offseason. They have more talent but are not playing like it. I agree with the rest of the teams you mention.

 
Zettel has become a force at DE. Killibrew is a top 12 safety & doesn’t even start; the guy is out there on 78% of the snaps & every week makes a big play. Young guys taking their game to the next level is a big reason this defense has become one of the better units in the NFL.

Speaking of which...

PFF on Tahir Whitehead circa 2017:

Moving back to outside linebacker in Detroit’s 4-3 front, Whitehead has been very effective against the run. Whitehead’s run defense grade of 87.7 ranks third among all linebackers while his 10.1 run stop percentage ranks sixth among 4-3 outside linebackers.

After allowing a passer rating against of 124.9 last season, Whitehead has also shown much improvement in coverage, allowing a passer rating against of just 65.2 this season. He has yet to allow a touchdown this season after allowing a league-high seven last year. His 78.1 coverage grade so far would be the highest of his career.
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The Lions and Panthers have played identically well this season

ALLEN PARK -- The Detroit Lions are down to standing-room tickets only for Sunday's showdown with the Carolina Panthers at Ford Field.

The hype is strong for a battle between two 3-1 teams sitting in first place in their divisions, and the similarities go farther than that.

It's easy to focus on the differences, mainly in style of play of the two offenses. Matthew Stafford and Cam Newton are franchise quarterbacks in their own right, but their offenses are built around their drastically opposite styles of heaving throwing and heavy running.

But the actual output of how these teams got to a showdown like this has mostly been the same when it comes to the efficiency of their systems.

When it comes to offensive DVOA (or defense-adjusted value over average, an efficiency metric used by Football Outsiders), the Panthers rank 20th and the Lions rank 21st. And the splits of how they've gotten there aren't nearly as off as their styles would suggest. Carolina ranks 23rd in passing and 17th in rushing, and Detroit ranks 21st in passing and 23rd in rushing.

When it comes to defensive DVOA, the Lions rank fifth and the Panthers rank 10th. The splits aren't wildly off for either team either, as the Lions are fifth in passing and 14th in rushing, and the Panthers are 12th in passing and 13th in rushing.

The strength of their schedules has been very similar as well, according to DVOA rankings. On offense, Detroit's slate has been the 28th-toughest and Carolina's the 29th. On defense, the Lions schedule has been the 16th-toughest and the Panthers' the 13th.

And whereas the two defenses have shown out just about each week, the offenses have had more down moments as well as one huge game. The Lions stormed out for 28 offensive points against the Arizona Cardinals in the season opener before slumping some the past three weeks. The Panthers struggled the first three weeks before dropping 33 points on the New England Patriots last week.

Something is going to give on Sunday. The gambling lines are treating this matchup as a pick 'em, and with good reason.
 
We are on to New Orleans. 

DETROIT -- The Lions fell 27-24 on Sunday to the Carolina Panthers in a game that wasn't really as close as the score indicated. Here's an analysis of the snap counts.

-- Quarterback Matthew Stafford receivedall kinds of medical attention during the loss, from getting a tape job on his upper right leg, to getting another couple tape jobs around the right foot and ankle. His left hand was bleeding. And that's saying nothing of whatever is under the wrap that has been on his throwing arm for weeks. Nevertheless, he persisted. Stafford never came off the field, just as he's done every week since the London game in 2015, his first under Jim Bob Cooter. Safety Glover Quin also hasn't missed a snap since 2015. Offensive linemen Graham Glasgow, Greg Robinson and Rick Wagner are the others who have not missed a snap this year.

-- Linebacker Jarrad Davis said he felt like a "starved dog" watching from the sidelines the last two weeks. The good news for him is he wasn't on the sideline at all in his return. He was one of four players to play all 66 defensive snaps. He finished with eight tackles, including two for loss. 

-- Linebacker Nick Bellore had an interesting day. His defensive role was downsized to seven snaps because of the return of Davis, but he also played a team-high 28 snaps on special teams, plus three snaps as a fullback on offense. All three plays were Zach Zenner runs, with Bellore as the lead blocker. The first two were successful, too, and one scored a touchdown. But the third was a disaster, with Zenner getting blasted in the backfield on a fourth-and-1 late in the third quarter.

-- With Dwayne Washington looking like he's nearing a return, it'll be interesting to see what the Lions do with Zenner. One of his carries went for 14 yards, and another scored a touchdown at the goal line. That's pretty good work for a guy who touched the ball just three times, and he also played 21 snaps on special teams. Then again, he also touched the ball just three times, and his final carry  was that blown-up run on fourth down. And the Lions really seem committed to developing Washington. 

-- Darren Fells played more snaps (35) than Eric Ebron (34) for the second straight week, and third time overall. He also caught two touchdown passes, matching Ebron's total from the last two years combined. And everyone knows who is the superior blocker. It might be time to start considering Fells Detroit's No. 1 tight end. 

-- Defensive tackle Haloti Ngata played just 16 defensive snaps before leaving the game with an elbow injury in the second quarter. He did not return, and coach Jim Caldwell offered no update on his status afterward. A'Shawn Robinson led the position group with 46 snaps, followed by Akeem Spence with 37.

-- The Lions have a decision to make today on Armonty Bryant. They must move him to the 53-man roster by close of business, or release him. If the Lions do activate him, George Johnson (16 snaps) and Jeremiah Valoaga (18 snaps) are the low men on the totem pole right now.

Offense
G Graham Glasgow 61 snaps (100 percent) 
G T.J. Lang 61 (100 percent) 
C Travis Swanson 61 (100 percent) 
T Greg Robinson 61 (100 percent) 
T Rick Wagner 61 (100 percent) 
QB Matthew Stafford 61 (100 percent) 
WR Marvin Jones 58 (95 percent) 
WR Golden Tate 55 (90 percent) 
WR TJ Jones 40 (66 percent) 
TE Darren Fells 35 (57 percent) 
TE Eric Ebron 34 (56 percent) 
RB Theo Riddick 30 (49 percent) 
RB Ameer Abdullah 22 (36 percent) 
WR Jared Abbrederis 14 (23 percent) 
RB Zach Zenner 9 (15 percent) 
TE Michael Roberts 5 (8 percent) 
LB Nick Bellore 3 (5 percent)

Defense
LB Jarrad Davis 66 snaps (100 percent) 
CB Darius Slay 66 (100 percent) 
FS Glover Quin 66 (100 percent) 
SS Tavon Wilson 66 (100 percent) 
LB Tahir Whitehead 56 (85 percent) 
DT A'Shawn Robinson 46 (70 percent) 
CB Nevin Lawson 42 (64 percent) 
DE Anthony Zettel 38 (58 percent) 
DT Akeem Spence 37 (56 percent) 
SS Miles Killebrew 35 (53 percent) 
DE Ezekiel Ansah 35 (53 percent) 
DT Jeremiah Ledbetter 31 (47 percent) 
CB Quandre Diggs 30 (45 percent) 
DE Cornelius Washington 26 (39 percent) 
CB D.J. Hayden 23 (35 percent) 
DE Jeremiah Valoaga 18 (27 percent) 
DT Haloti Ngata 16 (24 percent) 
DE George Johnson 16 (24 percent) 
LB  Nick Bellore 7 (11 percent) 
S Charles Washington 6 (9 percent)

Special teams
Nick Bellore 28 (88 percent) 
Don Carey 24 (75 percent)
Charles Washington 22 (69 percent)
Steve Longa 22 (69 percent) 
Jamal Agnew 22 969 percent) 
Jalen Reeves-Maybin 22 (69 percent) 
Zach Zenner 21 (66 percent) 
Jared Abbrederis 17 (53 percent)
Miles Killebrew 14 (44 percent)
Nevin Lawson 13 (41 percent)
Jeff Locke 12 (38 percent) 
Quandre Diggs 11 (34 percent)
Michael Roberts 10 (31 percent)
Darren Fells 10 (31 percent)
Don Muhlbach 9 (28 percent)
Jeremiah Ledbetter 8 (25 percent)
Cornelius Washington 6 (19 percent)
Jarrad Davis 6 (19 percent)
Darius Slay 6 (19 percent)
Matt Prater 6 (19 percent) 
Emmitt Cleary 6 (19 percent)
Glover Quin 6 (19 percent)
Anthony Zettel 6 (19 percent)
Tahir Whitehead 6 (19 percent)
A'Shawn Robinson 5 (16 percent)
Graham Glasgow 4 (12 percent)
D.J. Hayden 4 (12 percent)
T.J. Lang 4 (12 percent)
Travis Swanson 4 (12 percent)
Greg Robinson 4 (12 percent)
Rick Wagner 4 (12 percent)
Brian Mihalik 4 (12 percent)
Akeem Spence 3 (9 percent)
Haloti Ngata 2 (6 percent)
TJ Jones 1 (3 percent)

 
 Stafford is 5-46 against teams with a record over .500 in his career. Ya gotta love the Caldwell philosophy of trying to keep it close and win in the 4th Q. Then if the other team starts piling up the points, only then do they actually try to score TDs. They have no interest in piling on points in the 1st half. It all makes sense why Calvin would go game after game with 1 or 2 catches I the 1st half once this idiot arrived. It's also a top reason Calvin gave up.

Praising his horrible philosophy: https://scout.com/nfl/lions/Board/103102/Contents/Caldwells-approach-to-winning-football--108540821

Caldwell's philosophy is chicken #### football: https://scout.com/nfl/lions/Board/103102/Contents/Our-Offence-Is-Dog-st-108632271

This clown's philosophy is why this team will never go far in the playoffs in the years when they draw candyass schedules and actually make the playoffs. He has no balls at all. You can't paly that way against good teams. You can against the bad one and luck into wins.

 
BobbyLayne said:
-- Quarterback Matthew Stafford received all kinds of medical attention during the loss, from getting a tape job on his upper right leg, to getting another couple tape jobs around the right foot and ankle. His left hand was bleeding. And that's saying nothing of whatever is under the wrap that has been on his throwing arm for weeks. Nevertheless, he persisted. Stafford never came off the field, just as he's done every week since the London game in 2015, his first under Jim Bob Cooter. 

-- With Dwayne Washington looking like he's nearing a return, it'll be interesting to see what the Lions do with Zenner. One of his carries went for 14 yards, and another scored a touchdown at the goal line. That's pretty good work for a guy who touched the ball just three times, and he also played 21 snaps on special teams. Then again, he also touched the ball just three times, and his final carry  was that blown-up run on fourth down. And the Lions really seem committed to developing Washington. 

-- Darren Fells played more snaps (35) than Eric Ebron (34) for the second straight week, and third time overall. He also caught two touchdown passes, matching Ebron's total from the last two years combined. And everyone knows who is the superior blocker. It might be time to start considering Fells Detroit's No. 1 tight end. 
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I've heard that Zenner will always be the guy on obvious passing plays because he is the only trustworthy blocker out of the RBs.

Fells really does make Ebron look expendable, the fact that they can get a more complete TE off of the FA scrapheap tells us enough.

 
Let’s start giving those EE snaps to Roberts & see what we got. Maybe we can get a 6th round pick for 85 if we trade him before Halloween.

 
lod001 said:
 Stafford is 5-46 against teams with a record over .500 in his career. Ya gotta love the Caldwell philosophy of trying to keep it close and win in the 4th Q. Then if the other team starts piling up the points, only then do they actually try to score TDs. They have no interest in piling on points in the 1st half. It all makes sense why Calvin would go game after game with 1 or 2 catches I the 1st half once this idiot arrived. It's also a top reason Calvin gave up.
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So you think when Stafford threw a TD pass to Ebron in the first quarter, and he dropped it, they weren't really trying to score a TD? Stafford's OL didn't protect him well at all. Carolina's D was all over him, and he got the #### beat out of him. He hung in there though. He's tough. He finally had some success later in the game when Carolina's D started one of their late game meltdowns.  The Lions ran out of time.

 
BobbyLayne said:
Let’s start giving those EE snaps to Roberts & see what we got. Maybe we can get a 6th round pick for 85 if we trade him before Halloween.
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Pretty sure that yesterday sealed Ebrons fate in Detroit.  Would rather have a guy like Fells who is a solid blocker and has good hands.  Ebron is so undependable in all aspects of the game.

 
Since 2009, the Lions have allowed 19,001 yards and 1,383 points to teams with records of .500 or better. That’s 365 and 26 per game. The team is 5-46 in those games.

 
simey said:
So you think when Stafford threw a TD pass to Ebron in the first quarter, and he dropped it, they weren't really trying to score a TD? Stafford's OL didn't protect him well at all. Carolina's D was all over him, and he got the #### beat out of him. He hung in there though. He's tough. He finally had some success later in the game when Carolina's D started one of their late game meltdowns.  The Lions ran out of time.
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Not what I said. Look at this: On that drive, all short passes and one lucky interference call got them onto position to score. Since there was defensive offsides, it's certainly possible that Stafford saw that as a free play and chucked it deep, drawing the bigger penalty. Caldwell doesn't take chances. It's his M.O. When they get in FG range, he  is quite happy with 3 points. He's a loser with a loser mentality. He can beat bad teams with that style but can't beat good teams.

1st and 10 at DET 25

(15:00 - 1st) A.Abdullah right tackle to DET 41 for 16 yards (C.Jones).

1st and 10 at DET 41

(14:25 - 1st) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Stafford pass short right to M.Jones to DET 45 for 4 yards (M.Adams).

2nd and 6 at DET 45

(13:53 - 1st) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Stafford pass short left to G.Tate to 50 for 5 yards (L.Kuechly; S.Thompson).

3rd and 1 at 50

(13:14 - 1st) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Stafford pass short left to M.Jones to CAR 42 for 8 yards (D.Worley).

1st and 10 at CAR 42

(12:34 - 1st) M.Stafford pass incomplete deep left to M.Jones (D.Worley) [W.Horton]. PENALTY on CAR-D.Worley, Defensive Pass Interference, 30 yards, enforced at CAR 42 - No Play. Penalty on CAR-T.Davis, Defensive Offside, declined.

1st and 10 at CAR 12

(12:27 - 1st) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass incomplete short left to T.Jones.

2nd and 10 at CAR 12

(12:22 - 1st) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Stafford pass short left to T.Riddick to CAR 12 for no gain (L.Kuechly).

3rd and 10 at CAR 12

(11:41 - 1st) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Stafford pass incomplete short middle to E.Ebron.

 
BobbyLayne said:
Since 2009, the Lions have allowed 19,001 yards and 1,383 points to teams with records of .500 or better. That’s 365 and 26 per game. The team is 5-46 in those games.
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With the Caldwell mentality, it's real hard to win those games. 26 points is out of his reach unless the other team already has 30.

 
Kyle Meinke: 

DETROIT -- The Lions fell 27-24 on Sunday against the Carolina Panthers. Here are three things we learned in the defeat: 

Jim Bob Cooter's offense isn't working. It didn't work against the Giants, although that didn't sound any alarm bells because the defense carried the day. Then it didn't work against Atlanta, although a gutsy comeback and blown call overshadowed its deepening problems. A week later in Minnesota, those problems persisted as Matthew Stafford was battered eight times -- six of which went for sacks -- and did not throw a touchdown. But Detroit won, which continued to keep the wolves at bay. But against Carolina, the offense was bad for a fourth straight week. Detroit has now lost two of three because of it. Stafford has been sacked 12 times the last two weeks because of it, and spent nearly an hour in the trainers room Sunday afternoon. There's no explosion, no creativity. They're 30th in yards per play, and 29th in yards at all. Playcalling is the easiest thing in the game to second-guess, but there were moments where it seemed predictable, like running Zach Zenner and Nick Bellore out there three times for power runs. The first two worked. The third, on a fourth-and-1, was smashed to bits. This offense has been parked in the garage for a month now, conservative to a fault, and Cooter is getting some deserved heat for it.

Darius Slay is great, but he's not perfect. Kelvin Benjamin used his 6-foot-5 frame to take Slay back to school a bit, including on a 31-yard touchdown. Slay had decent coverage on the play, but was a step behind Benjamin, who isn't exactly known for his speed. In fact, Cam Newton had a 155.6 passer rating when targeting Slay on the day. He's a great corner who has already proved his mettle against the likes of Julio Jones and Odell Beckham this season, but this was a down game for him. And he was hardly alone. A tight end like Ed Dickson (who?) doesn't rack up 175 yards receiving without a few things going terribly wrong in the secondary. 

Jarrad Davis is still good at football. Davis said he felt like a "starved dog" watching from the sideline the last two weeks, and it showed. When the Lions ran out of the tunnel for the start of the game, it was the rookie linebacker who was leading them. When the defense took the field for its first play, it was Davis breaking through the line of scrimmage to make first contact with Jonathan Stewart. He wasn't credited with a tackle on the play, but he was eight other times, including twice for loss. And he assisted on at least one other. Davis squashed any concerns that his brain and neck injuries could linger. If there was anything good to come out of this game, it was the return, and return to form, of Detroit's prized first-round pick. This defense is a better one with him on the field. 

 
lod001 said:
 Stafford is 5-46 against teams with a record over .500 in his career. Ya gotta love the Caldwell philosophy of trying to keep it close and win in the 4th Q. Then if the other team starts piling up the points, only then do they actually try to score TDs. They have no interest in piling on points in the 1st half. It all makes sense why Calvin would go game after game with 1 or 2 catches I the 1st half once this idiot arrived. It's also a top reason Calvin gave up.

Praising his horrible philosophy: https://scout.com/nfl/lions/Board/103102/Contents/Caldwells-approach-to-winning-football--108540821

Caldwell's philosophy is chicken #### football: https://scout.com/nfl/lions/Board/103102/Contents/Our-Offence-Is-Dog-st-108632271

This clown's philosophy is why this team will never go far in the playoffs in the years when they draw candyass schedules and actually make the playoffs. He has no balls at all. You can't paly that way against good teams. You can against the bad one and luck into wins.
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I think Caldwell has a lot of great qualities as a person. But as a head coach, he really is the same as he always was. He needs to luck into the softest schedule possible just to barely sneak into the playoffs and then lose. That's really the best you can hope for with his uber conservative coaching style. In order to win against decent teams like ATL or CAR, you have to be aggressive, but he's far too risk adverse. That said, the Lions don't have a very talented roster. It's a mirage. So most coaches would probably also lose the games that Caldwell is losing because it's a league full of gutless playcalling. 

 
TwinTurbo said:
I think Caldwell has a lot of great qualities as a person. But as a head coach, he really is the same as he always was. He needs to luck into the softest schedule possible just to barely sneak into the playoffs and then lose. That's really the best you can hope for with his uber conservative coaching style. In order to win against decent teams like ATL or CAR, you have to be aggressive, but he's far too risk adverse. That said, the Lions don't have a very talented roster. It's a mirage. So most coaches would probably also lose the games that Caldwell is losing because it's a league full of gutless playcalling. 
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Gutless and also mixed inare  completely stupid playcalling like the wildcat and 'my plays are so tricky, I fool the other team' garbage.

The Lions are, of course, just gutless. I love how they blame Cooter.  it's not Cooter, it's Caldwell.

 
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Datone Jones will be signed today. Head scratcher to me they would cut a guy of Bryant’s production & choose to go with a washout who has never come close.

Khyri Thornton due to come off suspension after the Saints game. Timely as the D-line is most effective when they rotate liberally.

 
swabs said:
Ngata out :(
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Bums me out. Great veteran leadership, he and Quinn are the most respected players in the team. He hasn’t been the force he was with the Ravens but dude always gave it all. Still an effective run stuffer but 12 years takes a toll on a big man. 

Is he a HoFer? You could make case for it - 2 All-Pros, 5 Pro Bowls, 1 SB ring, anchored a defense full of stars. I don’t know the criteria for interior lineman but he played at a very high level in Baltimore.

 
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Will try to look for some positives out of today ... 

Fells is becoming a dependable option. 

The bye. 

Its probably coming at a good time for us to be honest. Time to take stock. 3-3 isn't the worst position to be in. Packers look like they have lost Rodgers for most of the season and we still get to play them twice. We have a 1-0 divisional record right now. Bears are winning some games but we are capable of beating them twice if we play well. 

Gives us a chance to get Stafford healed, hopefully Tate, Quinn, Lang, Golladay and a couple of others as well. Decker gets two weeks closer to returning. 

Time for Cooter to have a bit of a re-think and freshen things up somewhat on O in some fashion.  

PIT - never know what you'll get with them. Can be glitchy on the road 

@GB - Rodgerless

CLE - nuff said 

@CHI - proving to be stuffy at home but beatable none the less. 

Maybe just maybe we can go 3-1 in this little run which would have us at 6-4 and most likely neck and neck with Minny coming to town. 

Of course, trying to predict anything more than a week in advance is most likely a futile exercise 

 
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5 turnovers, players dropping like flies. O-line decimated, Wagner hurt, Tate hurt, Stafford banged up ankle, ribs.   The garbage points were good but it was ugly today.

 
Fwiw the Lions fans were great today. Great folks and it was a late charge that made the game memorable. Good luck this year, I think the Lions will be in the playoffs, they just ran into a road game buzzsaw today.

 
TartanLion said:
Will try to look for some positives out of today ... 

Fells is becoming a dependable option. 

The bye. 

Its probably coming at a good time for us to be honest. Time to take stock. 3-3 isn't the worst position to be in. Packers look like they have lost Rodgers for most of the season and we still get to play them twice. We have a 1-0 divisional record right now. Bears are winning some games but we are capable of beating them twice if we play well. 

Gives us a chance to get Stafford healed, hopefully Tate, Quinn, Lang, Golladay and a couple of others as well. Decker gets two weeks closer to returning. 

Time for Cooter to have a bit of a re-think and freshen things up somewhat on O in some fashion.  

PIT - never know what you'll get with them. Can be glitchy on the road 

@GB - Rodgerless

CLE - nuff said 

@CHI - proving to be stuffy at home but beatable none the less. 

Maybe just maybe we can go 3-1 in this little run which would have us at 6-4 and most likely neck and neck with Minny coming to town. 

Of course, trying to predict anything more than a week in advance is most likely a futile exercise 
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Cooter does need to freshen things up a bit, maybe Golladay can stretch the field when he returns. OL & defense can use the week off to get better for sure. 

Minny at home is key, win that and Detorit owns the tiebreaker.

As bad as recent games have been, this division is as winnable as ever.

 
That was a fun game to watch. Stafford doing his Favre imitations. I really loved the no look pass. Vintage Favre. No doubt Caldwell was disgusted at the # of points they (the Lions) scored. I think Stafford was tuning it over early so he could put up stats later in the game. It's the only time he gets to show off his arm.

 
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Ugly game.

I just had an awesome vacation in my home state. Stayed at a wonderful Victorian house in Grand Haven & spent the week driving a 5-speed 2006 e46 M3. Road trips to Sleeping Bear, TC, and the Homecoming Pig Roast. Family reunion yesterday with close 50 people, seven kids under 10 and four nieces in their third trimester. Such a beautiful day.

Lions game was in in the background but mostly as the classic “of course” backdrop. Not long after the game ended one of the three year olds walked/ran into a table, requiring a coupe stitches (he’s fine.) Pretty nostalgic day, some things never change.

DETROIT LIONS

Lions grades: Hard to find a bright spot in spanking by the Saints

By NATE ATKINS -- natkins@mlive.com

Quarterbacks: F

Man, Matthew Stafford is slumping, and today felt like rock bottom. After he was heralded just a few weeks ago for his ball security, he managed to turn the ball over five times in this contest. The first, a fumble in the end zone that became a Saints touchdown, showed awful pocket awareness. He's usually better at that and at telegraphing throwing lanes, but batted passes became a regular occurrence on a day in which he couldn't even complete half of his absurd 52 pass attempts. He finished 25 of 52 for 312 yards, three touchdowns, three interceptions and two lost fumbles.

He's playing beaten up behind a battered offensive line, and he should be commended for his toughness, but this was a performance unlike we've seen from Stafford in quite some time.

Running backs: D

Some of the impressive plays the Lions did get in the early portion of the game came from the running backs, like the 34-yard burst Ameer Abdullah ripped off up the middle. Theo Riddick was a regular in the passing game again, accounting for five receptions and 45 yards. That's the good. The bad is a running game that showed no consistency all day, finishing with 62 yards on 17 carries from running backs. Zach Zenner was blown up on another short-yardage call. Riddick blew an assignment that resulted in one of Stafford's fumbles. It was a forgettable day.

Wide receivers and tight ends: C-

Well, at least Darren Fells showed up again. The less heralded tight end on the roster scored his third touchdown in two weeks to help pull the Lions closer down the stretch. Additionally, Marvin Jones turned in some better splash plays than he's shown all season, such as a sick one-handed touchdown catch, and he finished with 96 yards on six catches, though it took him 14 targets to do it. Golden Tate had it going early, including the 45-yard catch-and-run for Detroit's first touchdown, and then he left injured. So this group wasn't as atrocious as the others, but it struggled with some man coverage again and showcased another essential no-show from Eric Ebron, who had one catch for nine yards.

Offensive line: D

You start to feel bad for this group at some point because it's where the Lions have pumped so many resources into and yet injuries just keep taking it apart. With Taylor Decker already missing as usual at left tackle, T.J. Lang shockingly missed at right guard, and then Rick Wagner played hobbled at right tackle as the Lions were starved for depth. The group had some decent moments with some downfield blocks and moments of solid pass protection in the first half that Stafford wasn't taking much advantage of. It also played a role in the issues, though, struggling again at cut blocks and giving no outside help for the running game. This group needs the bye week as much as any.

Defensive line: D-

First the Lions lost Haloti Ngata to injured reserve, and then they decided to play without edge setter Cornelius Washington for reasons they wouldn't explain. It sure looked to kill them as New Orleans ran wild for 193 yards and two touchdowns on 5.2 yards per carry, largely through gashing runs on the edge. They also didn't sack Drew Brees even once on 31 drop-backs. The lone bright spot was the day that A'Shawn Robinson had, as he made seven tackles and took an acrobatic interception to the house for a score.

Linebackers: D-

The sideline-to-sideline abilities that Lions linebackers have shown this season didn't come through well in this one, though they didn't receive too much help from the defensive ends. Mark Ingram and Alvin Kamara also had some powerful finishes to their runs as Lions tackling had another awful day. Detroit was better against tight ends this week, though it still allowed Michael Hoomanawanui to squirt free for a touchdown. It wasn't an egregious day for this group, but it's hard to point to much of anything it did well.

Defensive backs: C

This was a costly loss for the Lions in that the heart and soul of the secondary and really the entire defense went down with a rare injury. Glover Quin left with a brain injury, and that took away a lot of Detroit's chances of creating a splash play down the stretch to complete this comeback. Darius Slay got one pick off an acrobatic wrestle of the ball from Michael Thomas' hands. And Brees had his worst statistical game of the season so far with just 186 yards, and Detroit held Thomas to his worst with just 11 yards. Outside of a couple early plays by Ted Ginn, the Lions did well with their plan to limit the splash plays, but they seemed helpless against an offense that was setting things up with the run so well.

Special teams: C-

Lions special teams didn't get all that much work in a game with so many turnovers, but they were up and down on the chances they did receive. Jamal Agnew had a thrilling 74-yard punt return touchdown to keep Detroit's hopes alive down the stretch, though he ended it with a taunting penalty. He nearly cost the Lions that same number of points later when he retreated deep to catch a punt, muffed it into the end zone and fought just to get to the 1-yard line. Cameron Jordan intercepted a pass for a touchdown soon after that. Matt Prater made a 41-yarder but missed from 56. Jeff Locke had a great day punting with a 48.6-yard average and three downed inside the 20. The coverage units were excellent as well. These plays just felt pretty meaningless in the context of a blowout.

Coaching: F

The Lions looked out-of-sync from the start in this one, and that can be partly attributed to injuries but also to the plan the coaching staff had to play around them. From the first series of Matthew Stafford running around in the end zone behind that battered offensive line, it wasn't a good one. The move to shotgun snaps was an obvious attempt to preserve Stafford's body, but it cost the chance to establish the running game like Detroit had in its previous two road games against the Giants and Vikings. The decision to not play Cornelius Washington for what Jim Caldwell described as pure football reasons seemed baffling when it happened and more confusing when the Saints gashed the Lions on outside runs all game. Detroit just seemed woefully unprepared for almost everything New Orleans tried to do.

 
So at this point, the Lions have lost all 3 games to the NFC South. I expect they will lose to the Bucs too on Dec. 14 to complete the cycle. Meanwhile the Vikings are 2-0 against the South. 

But with Rodgers out and a win in hand against the Vikes, the Lions still have a path forward to win the division. If they can somehow sneak into a home playoff game, anything is possible. But this is not a good team across the board. I really don't see them going better than 5-5 to finish out which puts them at 8-8. The winner of the NFC North probably finishes 9-7 just looking at the schedules. 

 
ALLEN PARK -- The usual Detroit Lions game features the regular cast of players registering every single snap. It's almost always Matthew Stafford and his five offensive linemen on offense and Glover Quin on defense.

Nothing about Sunday's game was usual, though. Not the 52-38 final in favor of the Saints, not the wacky turnovers and the way they happened and certainly not the rash of injuries to the players Detroit counts on the most.

Stafford played through it, of course, despite injuries up and down his lower body and potentially even to his chest. But the wall in front of him continued to rotate, and it brings questions about both the depth Detroit has behind its high-dollar investments up front as well as how well it trusts certain options at this point.

Only center Travis Swanson and guard Graham Glasgow played every snap up front. With top guard T.J. Lang out, the Lions went with a mix of Emmitt Cleary (65 percent of snaps) and Tim Lelito (35 percent), with Cleary becoming an option at the tackle spots as well.

Those areas opened up as Wagner left for five plays and then returned as Detroit's depth whittled away. It also featured an early benching for left tackle Greg Robinson, who later hurt his foot and surrendered 32 percent of snaps to Brian Mihalik in the end.

This obviously was never the plan when Detroit threw $9.5 million annual salaries at Lang and Wagner in the offseason. The team felt good about the progress of first-round left tackle Taylor Decker, but then he tore his labrum. It's clear the investment it traded for, a former No. 2 overall pick in Robinson, isn't an enthusiastic choice even if he is healthy.

It's all the more reason why a bye week is necessary for these Lions. After taking six sacks in each of the past three games, Stafford will be resting easy.

Here are some other observations from how the snap counts shook out Sunday:

-- Quin's rare absence, the first for a single snap since 2015, forced the Lions to shuffled the deck a bit among their safeties, especially since fellow starter Tavon Wilson followed him out of the game before returning later. Miles Killebrew actually saw his snaps decrease to 38 percent, his lowest of the season. Detroit seemed to trust the open-field abilities of Charles Washington more, giving him a 49-percent usage with more than twice the snaps he's had in any other game.

-- Unsurprisingly, Jared Abbrederis filled Golden Tate's void in terms of snaps, playing 57 percent of the game. He couldn't come near the production, obviously, as he finished with one catch for seven yards on four targets. Tate looked like Detroit's best player in the ugly early goings, turning six catches into 96 yards and a score before exiting with a shoulder injury. He offers a gadget skill set that's hard to imagine the Lions replacing in any way, especially until they get Kenny Golladay back from the hamstring injury that has held him out since Week 3.

-- Teez Tabor played his second career game and his first-ever snaps on defense in this one. Those three plays came fairly early on, though it was far from an active performance. The second-round cornerback did get 14 snaps on special teams, which shows a little growth in an area that is not all that natural to him.

Here's the full breakdown of snaps in this one:

OFFENSE
OG Graham Glasgow 81 (100 percent)
C Travis Swanson 81 (100 percent)
QB Matthew Stafford 81 (100 percent) 
WR Marvin Jones 80 (99 percent) 
OT Rick Wagner 76 (94 percent)
OT Greg Robinson 60 (74 percent)
WR TJ Jones 58 (72 percent) 
OT Emmitt Cleary 53 (65 percent)
WR Jared Abbrederis 47 (58 percent)
TE Darren Fells 46 (57 percent)
WR Golden Tate 46 (57 percent) 
TE Eric Ebron 41 (51 percent) 
RB Ameer Abdullah 37 (46 percent) 
RB Theo Riddick 35 (43 percent) 
OG Tim Lelito 28 (35 percent)
OT Brian Mihalik 26 (32 percent)
RB Zach Zenner 9 (11 percent)
TE Michael Roberts 5 (6 percent)
FB Nick Bellore 1 (1 percent)

DEFENSE
LB Jarrad Davis 71 (100 percent)
CB Darius Slay 69 (97 percent)
SS Tavon Wilson 65 (92 percent) 
LB Tahir Whitehead 63 (89 percent)
DT Akeem Spence 52 (73 percent) 
DT A'Shawn Robinson 51 (72 percent)
CB Nevin Lawson 43 (61 percent)
DE Anthony Zettel 43 (61 percent)
DE Ezekiel Ansah 42 (59 percent) 
FS Glover Quin 37 (52 percent)
FS Charles Washington 35 (49 percent)
DE Jeremiah Valoaga 29 (41 percent)
DE George Johnson 29 (41 percent)
CB Quandre Diggs 28 (39 percent)
LB Jalen Reeves-Maybin 27 (38 percent)
SS Miles Killebrew 27 (38 percent)
CB DJ Hayden 25 (35 percent)
DT Jeremiah Ledbetter 22 (31 percent)
DT Caraun Reid DT 18 (25 percent)
CB Teez Tabor CB 3 (4 percent)
FB Nick Bellore 2 (3 percent)

SPECIAL TEAMS
Don Carey 38 (84 percent) 
Nick Bellore 38 (84 percent) 
Jamal Agnew 31 (69 percent) 
Steve Longa 29 (64 percent) 
Jalen Reeves-Maybin 28 (62 percent) 
Charles Washington 24 (53 percent) 
Zach Zenner 23 (51 percent) 
Jeff Locke 16 (36 percent) 
Jared Abbrederis 16 (36 percent) 
Darren Fells 16 (36 percent) 
Miles Killebrew 15 (33 percent) 
Quandre Diggs 14 (31 percent) 
Teez Tabor (31 percent) 
Nevin Lawson 13 (29 percent) 
Don Muhlbach 12 (27 percent) 
Michael Roberts 12 (27 percent) 
Tim Lelito 12 (27 percent) 
Tahir Whitehead 12 (27 percent) 
Jeremiah Ledbetter 12 (27 percent) 
Jeremiah Valoaga 10 (22 percent) 
Darius Slay 10 (22 percent) 
A'Shawn Robinson 10 (22 percent) 
George Johnson 10 (22 percent) 
Matt Prater 10 (22 percent)
Jarrad Davis 9 (20 percent) 
DJ Hayden 8 (18 percent) 
Graham Glasgow 7 (16 percent) 
Brian Mihalik 7 (16 percent) 
Travis Swanson 7 (16 percent) 
Rick Wagner 7 (16 percent) 
Glover Quin 7 (16 percent) 
Emmitt Cleary 7 (16 percent) 
Anthony Zettel 6 (13 percent) 
Greg Robinson 4 (9 percent) 
Caraun Reid 1 (2 percent) 

 
Have to love the consistency of the O-line. That's three weeks in a row they've given up 5 or more sacks (17 total.) 12 batted balls v. the Saints - the NFL record is 14. Finished the game with only four healthy lineman, Wagner playing hurt, and two of those guys were on the street a few weeks ago. Decker is making good progress and should be back for the second half. That won't solve everything, but Robinson is probably the worst offensive lineman in the league right now. The Vikings called him lazy a few weeks back and not a single teammate or coach came to his defense.

Stafford stunk up the joint, two pick sixes and two other turnovers that led to touchdowns. It's beyond absurd we force three turnovers, get a pick 6 from a fat guy, run back another punt, and were never in the game. Almost as absurd as giving up 175 receiving yards to a journeyman TE who hasn't had more than 79 in a game in 8 years in the league.

The team is an all-around hot mess right now. Good time for a bye week.

They still have a good defensive backfield. The guys up front are having trouble stopping the run, and Ngati is a big loss, but that should be a fixable issue. With the talent we have at safety, there's no way we should be getting caught in mismatches. Just play the nickel or dime as your base and let Killebrew play LB.

Hopefully the big fellas get healthy and Decker comes back sometime in the next few weeks. I don't know what's up with Lang's back but we really need him and Wagner to be healthy. Golladay should be good to go after the bye, he'll be getting lots of snaps with Tate out a few weeks.

Been a pretty bad stretch but I think they'll turn it around and finish with 10 wins. With Rodgers down and holding the tiebreaker over the Vikings, it's right there in front of them. It's an up/down league and things change over the course of a season. We'll find out about their character over the next couple weeks (SNF PIT & MNF @GB.) Obviously they're not winning ANY games unless some things get corrected, but there are a lot of winnable games on the remaining schedule:

7    Bye Week
8    10/29    vs. Pit    8:30 PM ET
9    11/6    @ GB    8:30 PM ET
10    11/12    vs. Cle    1:00 PM ET
11    11/19    @ Chi    1:00 PM ET
12    11/23    vs. Min    12:30 PM ET
13    12/3    @ Bal    1:00 PM ET
14    12/10    @ TB    1:00 PM ET
15    12/16    vs. Chi    4:30 PM ET
16    12/24    @ Cin    1:00 PM ET
17    12/31    vs. GB    1:00 PM ET
 

 
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I get it.

NCAA, Halloween decorations, Friday Night Lights, fall color drives, bow season, Arby's new venison sandwich. Why would anyone want to talk Lions?

Matthew Stafford, Golden Tate and Glover Quin were among 12 Lions who sat out practice Tuesday, the team's last workout before leaving for their bye.

Stafford played through an ankle injury in Sunday's 52-38 loss to the New Orleans Saints and took several crushing blows to his ribs that had him playing in pain.

Stafford, who's made 102 consecutive starts at quarterback, said he never considered coming out of the game and he nearly led the Lions back from a 35-point deficit.

Jake Rudock took every rep at quarterback during the open portion of practice today for the second time this year.

Stafford also was held out of practice in late August on the day he signed his record five-year, $135 million contract.

Along with Tate, who's expected to miss multiple weeks with a shoulder injury, and Quin, who suffered a brain injury against the Saints, the Lions were without wide receivers Kenny Golladay (hamstring) and TJ Jones, offensive linemen T.J. Lang (back), Emmett Cleary (ankle) and Greg Robinson (ankle), defensive linemen Ziggy Ansah (knee), Anthony Zettel and A'Shawn Robinson, and linebacker Paul Worrilow (knee).

Golladay, who's missed three straight games with a pulled hamstring, spent the open portion of practice running on the side with trainers.

Punter Sam Martin practiced Tuesday for the first time this season. Martin suffered a summer ankle injury and has been on the non-football injury list all year.

Left tackle Taylor remains on the physically unable to perform list. He will have a three-week window to practice once he returns to the field.

The Lions (3-3) are off until Oct. 29, when they host the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Click to expand...

 
BobbyLayne said:
I get it.

NCAA, Halloween decorations, Friday Night Lights, fall color drives, bow season, Arby's new venison sandwich. Why would anyone want to talk Lions?
Click to expand...
OK, I'll bite. I think the two games after the bye will determine the season. After that the schedule opens up, with no really scary match-ups the rest of the way. But if they lose to Pitt/GB, they're 3-5 and it might be hard to climb back out of that hole. 

 
BobbyLayne said:
Gesicki in the 3rd/4th round seems like the better strategy.

Need to keep drafting lineman, build it from the inside out, on both sides of the ball. 
Click to expand...
I like Fells, Golladay can play the big athletic mismatch that Ebron was supposed to be.  But please get some pass rush help!

 
Sam Martin is off IR, Locke was cut.

Kyhri Thornton off suspension and activated.

Stafford, Lang, Wagner, & Quinn all back at practice.

Taylor Decker should return NLT week 9, but no indication yet he’ll be ready to for the SNF game v. the Stillers.

With Tate out we’ll see Golladay (healthy again) on the outside with Marvin Jones & TJ Jones mostly in the slot. Have never really been impressed with Abbrederis, kind of wish they would bring Jace Billingsly up from the practice squad. Long shot they’d do it but he’s had two outstanding preseasons, has very good speed (4.39 was pro day), strongest WR on the team (25 reps.) I get that they hold his height (5’9”) against him but what do they have to lose?

PFF O-line grades through 6 games:

RT Wagner 81.0 T11

RH Lang 84.3 G5

C Swanson 39.3 C33

LG Glasgow 52.7 G35

LT Robinson 36.6 T73

A years ago as a rookie, Decker graded out at 82.4, good for 23rd out of 78 tackles.

 
Lions promoted receiver Jace Billingsley to the active roster Wednesday.

:excited:

Really excited for him. Small town kid from rural Nevada along I-80, 4-time state champ in wrestling, all-American at Eastern Oregon State, went the Nevada-Reno Pro day and ran a hand timed 4.3, beat every other WR combine numbers in the bench press, 35” vertical. UDFA, has led the Lions in receiving the last two preseasons, final cut both years. After 1-1/2 years on the practice squad he’s finally gonna get on an NFL field.

His hometown of Winnemucca runs stories about him all the time. I grew up in a small rural town in mid-Michigan about the same size, we had a couple guys drafted & play in the NFL. I know exactly what this means to them. Crazy that a whole town (7,300) wraps up its identity & pride in someone they probably barely know, but that’s so Americana. When you live in a place without much hope or prospects, sometimes living vicariously is all you got.

Kind of cool his first game is against the Steelers as he scored his first TD at Heinz Field last year. Dude has some quicks.

 
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BobbyLayne said:
Sam Martin is off IR, Locke was cut.

Kyhri Thornton off suspension and activated.

Stafford, Lang, Wagner, & Quinn all back at practice.

Taylor Decker should return NLT week 9, but no indication yet he’ll be ready to for the SNF game v. the Stillers.

With Tate out we’ll see Golladay (healthy again) on the outside with Marvin Jones & TJ Jones mostly in the slot. Have never really been impressed with Abbrederis, kind of wish they would bring Jace Billingsly up from the practice squad. Long shot they’d do it but he’s had two outstanding preseasons, has very good speed (4.39 was pro day), strongest WR on the team (25 reps.) I get that they hold his height (5’9”) against him but what do they have to lose?

PFF O-line grades through 6 games:

RT Wagner 81.0 T11

RH Lang 84.3 G5

C Swanson 39.3 C33

LG Glasgow 52.7 G35

LT Robinson 36.6 T73

A years ago as a rookie, Decker graded out at 82.4, good for 23rd out of 78 tackles.
Click to expand...
Ouch. I expected much better play out of him but it coincides with what I'm seeing.

 
What do people think about Riddick's prospects ROS? I'm not really sure what's happened to him, other than the variance you often see with passing-down backs, but the oddest part is that he's off to such a bad start despite the fact that he's finally managed to stay healthy (touch wood).

I could see Tate's injury opening up some opportunity for him, but it's hard to predict what could make him productive when I'm not really sure what's held him back so far.

 
Futz said:
Ouch. I expected much better play out of him but it coincides with what I'm seeing.
Click to expand...
Two crappy years out of three. After suffering through a decade plus of mediocrity from Raiola I want an upgrade for 2018. Might be easiest to draft a LG and slide GG over, he’s versatile and done well at either spot.

You can see that they’re actually not that far off from having a top ten line. Get Decker back and figure out some schemes to get Swanson some help this year. When healthy, 4/5ths of the line is above average.

Lang isn’t a long term solution with his sketchy back issues so a top shelf guard is behind only edge rusher for next year. But both right side vets have been worth the investment.

We need more speed on offense. Dang, we just don’t have guys who stretch the field, Marvin is way too easy to take away. I knew when they gave him his $40M ($20M guaranteed) there was no way he was going to morph into a WR1.

 
zftcg said:
What do people think about Riddick's prospects ROS? I'm not really sure what's happened to him, other than the variance you often see with passing-down backs, but the oddest part is that he's off to such a bad start despite the fact that he's finally managed to stay healthy (touch wood).

I could see Tate's injury opening up some opportunity for him, but it's hard to predict what could make him productive when I'm not really sure what's held him back so far.
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Teams key on him more this year, and taking away Stafford’s security blanket is an important part of disrupting the Lion offense. I’m not especially hopeful Cooter will find creative ways to get him more involved by lining him up in the slot or wide.

I might be off base but I’d like to see a package of plays installed just for Billingsly. He lacks experience so it’s a WC, but he’s quick as a water bug and has some serious jets. Get it to him quick & let’s see what kind of YAC he can produce. He’s short but strong as a bull, I think he could be a decent replacement for Tate if they trust him.

 
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