2025 Detroit Lions: 4-1 Lions win battle of the big cats. (40 Viewers)

[TartanLion]

Well it’s not like we didn’t see a loss coming. Very predictable. As discussed a few pages back there’s only so many times a bad team can come incredibly close to winning through pure effort and not doing so, before the effort starts to decrease 

 

[Moonlight]

I can accept the severe lack of talent the Lions have.

I cannot accept the lack of effort they showed against the Eagles. Totally unnacceptable. 

With stupid decisions by Goff and Campbell to suck all the wind out

 

[Moonlight]

Lions worst defense in league now.

Lions offensive and defensive lines were supposed to be the strengths of the team and both got thoroughly whipped today.

Goff with his limitations was under pressure too much for him to succeed.

FOX studio team blasting Lion players for being too chummy with Eagles after game.

 

[Zeppelin]

Some good news...the Jets won their 2nd game. The only other teams with one win are the Dolphins, Jags, and Texans. 

Still in first place (in the draft). 

 

[Zeppelin]

This game is on Campbell. This team was not prepared to play and completely lifeless. They played soft. They weren't mentally in the game. They were physically manhandled. They lacked effort. I can't think of a single good thing from this game.

To get a beatdown is one thing but against against a really bad team that is inexcusable and the lack of effort and uninspired play was embarrassing. 

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Some good news...the Jets won their 2nd game. The only other teams with one win are the Dolphins, Jags, and Texans. 

Still in first place (in the draft). 

At this point a win would be pointless in the long game.

 

[BobbyLayne]

It’s a beautiful day to be on a boat - I gave up watching after Jordon Howard scored

Apparently that’s about the same time Detroit gave up

The universe in which I start Michael Carter over Swift does not exist. But it still smarts to have 8.10 in my lineup and 32.2 on the bench

I always thought they would win 3-5 games, it’s an up/down league, Any Given Sunday, et al. I no longer believe that. 0-17 is definitely on the table.

 

[matuski]

This game is on Campbell. This team was not prepared to play and completely lifeless. They played soft. They weren't mentally in the game. They were physically manhandled. They lacked effort. I can't think of a single good thing from this game.

To get a beatdown is one thing but against against a really bad team that is inexcusable and the lack of effort and uninspired play was embarrassing. 

As I get older these posts just ring hollow.

These games are lost because the Lions are not good (really really really not good), and effort at this level only goes so far.

For whatever reason this franchise manages to field teams that are not good year after year after year.... while fans blame coaches and players.

This is who the Lions are.  A perennial bottom feeder, despite the perennial advantage of having top 10 picks.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

As I get older these posts just ring hollow.

These games are lost because the Lions are not good (really really really not good), and effort at this level only goes so far.

For whatever reason this franchise manages to field teams that are not good year after year after year.... while fans blame coaches and players.

Exactly. This  isn't some sudden occurrence. It's been going on for 60 years.

 

[Zeppelin]

As I get older these posts just ring hollow.

These games are lost because the Lions are not good (really really really not good), and effort at this level only goes so far.

For whatever reason this franchise manages to field teams that are not good year after year after year.... while fans blame coaches and players.

I'm not going to lump in this regime with ones from the past. That is completely unfair and miguided. For once they are completely tearing this down and rebuilding from the ground up instead of pretending they can patch a few holes and be good. They also ate 50 million in dead cap space this year alone. This will take time. 

 

[matuski]

I'm not going to lump in this regime with ones from the past. That is completely unfair and miguided. For once they are completely tearing this down and rebuilding from the ground up instead of pretending they can patch a few holes and be good. They also ate 50 million in dead cap space this year alone. This will take time. 

I can't tell if this post is serious.

 

[Zeppelin]

I can't tell if this post is serious.

I'm dead serious. And I am 60 years old and have seen almost the entire history of ineptitude. 

 

[matuski]

I'm dead serious. And I am 60 years old and have seen almost the entire history of ineptitude. 

The only difference I see here is they let Stafford find a trade.

Otherwise... same old same old.  Bad roster, high draft picks.  Like every other year.  You can label this a rebuild.  I can label the last 35 years a rebuild.

 

[Moonlight]

I'm not going to lump in this regime with ones from the past. That is completely unfair and miguided. For once they are completely tearing this down and rebuilding from the ground up instead of pretending they can patch a few holes and be good. They also ate 50 million in dead cap space this year alone. This will take time. 

I'm with you on this.

Lions shot their wad last week against Rams. We knew we would need patience this season and this was a rebuild. 

Its very hard to be optimistic after seeing how thoroughly they were whipped at home against a team that we thought they had a good chance of beating. Especially disheartening that both OL and DL were dominated as they were to be strengths of team.

I'm not giving up on Campbell & Holmes after half a year.

Goff is not their long term QB, so we need to wait. Campbell is learning on job and we need to accept that too.

 

[matuski]

I have been a Lions fan for going on 35 years.

I appreciate the ability to try to find hope where there is none, and I guess in a way we are always right... when you are the worst franchise in the league - the only way to go is up right?  

So we wait a few years and maybe get a winning record.  Then we find it in us to label the next several years a rebuild and "this time it is different".

Truly and honestly - for me the best redemption in the world is watching Matt Stafford kick ### on a good team.  That is right, my best moment as a lions fan this year is watching our ex quarterback do well on another team.

 

[Zeppelin]

At the start of the season the Lions were near the bottom of the league in terms of talent. I'm glad they didnt overpay some marginal free agents for multiple years. Jamaal Williams was the only free agant to get more than 1 year (he got 2 and was a great signing).

In addition to the above the Lions are without their 2 best offensive players (Ragnow and Decker) and best defensive player (Okwara)b plus 2 of their top 3 WRs (Williams and Cephus) and 3 of their top 4 CBs (Okudah, Melifonwu, and now Parker). Thats a lot of injuries for any team let alone one with little talent to begin with. They are also the 2nd youngest team in the league. 

Quinn and Patricia left a mess not just in lack of talent but a terrible salary cap situation. Add that a new coaching staff has to change a long history of a losing culture. 

They deserve more than a half a season.

 

[matuski]

They deserve more than a half a season.

Ok, I'll play.

How long do they deserve?

 

[Zeppelin]

Ok, I'll play.

How long do they deserve?

Next year won't be good but they should be competitive in year 3 and contending for the playoffs by year 4. I don't see it happening any faster than that. That's how terrible Quinn and Patricia left this...a disaster.

They have 6 very high draft picks in the next 2 drafts. I don't see a franchise QB in this draft so they are probably stuck with Goff next year. The dead cap space will mostly be gone in 2 years as well. But they have to make those high picks count. That is 6 players to add to the core of this team.

 

[Mister CIA]

This game is on Campbell. This team was not prepared to play and completely lifeless. They played soft. They weren't mentally in the game. They were physically manhandled. They lacked effort. I can't think of a single good thing from this game.

To get a beatdown is one thing but against against a really bad team that is inexcusable and the lack of effort and uninspired play was embarrassing. 

As I get older these posts just ring hollow.

These games are lost because the Lions are not good (really really really not good), and effort at this level only goes so far.

For whatever reason this franchise manages to field teams that are not good year after year after year.... while fans blame coaches and players.

This is who the Lions are.  A perennial bottom feeder, despite the perennial advantage of having top 10 picks.

Can't argue with your logic.  The Lions are not good because the Lions are not good.

 

[matuski]

Next year won't be good but they should be competitive in year 3 and contending for the playoffs by year 4. I don't see it happening any faster than that. That's how terrible Quinn and Patricia left this...a disaster.

They have 6 very high draft picks in the next 2 drafts. I don't see a franchise QB in this draft so they are probably stuck with Goff next year. The dead cap space will mostly be gone in 2 years as well. But they have to make those high picks count. That is 6 players to add to the core of this team.

I guess the question is.. how do you define competitive?  An above .500 record? Competing for a wild card?  I can't imagine you think the Lions are competing for a super bowl.

 

[Mt. Man]

I always thought they would win 3-5 games, it’s an up/down league, Any Given Sunday, et al. I no longer believe that. 0-17 is definitely on the table.

As it stands, I might give a decent chance of beating the Falcons or Denver. Maybe a reasonable chance of catching the Bears lagging on a short week on Turkey Day. A long shot that GB is locked into a spot Wk 18, and that the Lions might beat their backups >.>.  Otherwise it feels like it'll take a team playing an outright terrible game and/or missing a bunch of their starters.

Some good news...the Jets won their 2nd game. The only other teams with one win are the Dolphins, Jags, and Texans. 

Still in first place (in the draft). 

Dolphins still play the Texans and the Jets twice. Jets also still face the Texans & Jags and the Texans and Jags face off one more time. Even if the Lions scrape up a few wins, most to all those teams will be several wins ahead.

 

[Zeppelin]

I guess the question is.. how do you define competitive?  An above .500 record? Competing for a wild card?  I can't imagine you think the Lions are competing for a super bowl.

Competitive would be a chance to be near .500. 

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Dan Campbell...

Then (as a new hire)

Now

 

[TwinTurbo]

The Lions are an example of why the NFL should adopt relegation. Some new team in London can take their spot in the NFC North while they drop down to NCAA division II with Ferris State and Northern Michigan. 

 

[TwinTurbo]

Next year won't be good but they should be competitive in year 3 and contending for the playoffs by year 4. I don't see it happening any faster than that. That's how terrible Quinn and Patricia left this...a disaster.

They have 6 very high draft picks in the next 2 drafts. I don't see a franchise QB in this draft so they are probably stuck with Goff next year. The dead cap space will mostly be gone in 2 years as well. But they have to make those high picks count. That is 6 players to add to the core of this team.

They had a franchise QB in Stafford. I know everyone wants to blame Patricia and Quinn (well deserved), but this is also a trash franchise that has been an absolute dumpster fire for decades regardless of the coaching staffs. They had Stafford and Megatron and couldn't even win the division once. 

 

[wgoldsph]

Campbell is learning on job and we need to accept that too.

Imagine saying that about any coach on any other team.  They'd be fired instantly.

 

[Zeppelin]

Imagine saying that about any coach on any other team.  They'd be fired instantly.

No chance any coach gets fired halfway through his first year on a rebuilding team with very little talent.

 

[wgoldsph]

No chance any coach gets fired halfway through his first year on a rebuilding team with very little talent.

No chance Campbell gets a job with anyone but a rebuilding team with very little talent.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

No chance Campbell gets a job with anyone but a rebuilding team with very little talent.

It's like nobody even watched the Miami Dolphins experiment with Campbell.

 

[matuski]

Competitive would be a chance to be near .500. 

Alright.  That is a Lions level expectation.  In other words... the rebuild never amounts to anything but the hope of being NEAR a .500 team.

 

[Zeppelin]

Alright.  That is a Lions level expectation.  In other words... the rebuild never amounts to anything but the hope of being NEAR a .500 team.

Thats not the end goal. 

 

[matuski]

Thats not the end goal. 

For most teams, I'd agree... but let's keep it on your timeline.  In a few years they will "compete" for a "chance" to be a .500 regular season team.  What is the end goal and when?

Or, put another way - when does your definition of "compete" for the Lions become that of most every other team?

 

[Zeppelin]

For most teams, I'd agree... but let's keep it on your timeline.  In a few years they will "compete" for a "chance" to be a .500 regular season team.  What is the end goal and when?

Or, put another way - when does your definition of "compete" for the Lions become that of most every other team?

Define "compete" for most every other team.

Edit to add: "Compete" when most teams start where this regime did with respect to lack of talent and 50 million in dead cap space. Yes, that matters.

 

[Moonlight]

Imagine saying that about any coach on any other team.  They'd be fired instantly.

Well he brings something that is needed toughness, desire to be in Detroit and pride in being part of the Lions organization. If he can get through this hellish season with his head high, he has my support. He's the coach we need after the Quinn/Patricia double clutch and the bare cupboard we are starting with. Holmes has escaped most of the criticism but Campbell can only play with the players he's been given.

Lions got a lot of praise for playing the Rams tough on the road just last week. Now getting the opposite this week but laying the egg they did this week its not undeserved. But again its just one week.

 

[BobbyLayne]

As it stands, I might give a decent chance of beating the Falcons or Denver. Maybe a reasonable chance of catching the Bears lagging on a short week on Turkey Day. A long shot that GB is locked into a spot Wk 18, and that the Lions might beat their backups >.>.  Otherwise it feels like it'll take a team playing an outright terrible game and/or missing a bunch of their starters.

Dolphins still play the Texans and the Jets twice. Jets also still face the Texans & Jags and the Texans and Jags face off one more time. Even if the Lions scrape up a few wins, most to all those teams will be several wins ahead.

I didn't watch after it was 17-0, so I'm curious about the ARSB game yesterday. He was the only WR with a catch through 3 quarters, a week after getting zero targets v the Rams.

What was the 34 yard reception (first offensive play of the second half)? Typical behind the LOS bubble screen or quick slant? They didn't actually take a shot downfield, right?

Goff is 33rd in average depth of target. I think the first or second possession was really telling. 3rd & 8, and Anthony Lynn dials up a TE screen in which Hock catches the ball 3 yards behind the LOS. 

They treat Goof like a sophomore JV quarterback getting his first start with the varsity. Simply won't push the ball downfield and the QB doesn't trust anyone besides Hock. 

 

[Pip's Invitation]

I didn't watch after it was 17-0, so I'm curious about the ARSB game yesterday. He was the only WR with a catch through 3 quarters, a week after getting zero targets v the Rams.

What was the 34 yard reception (first offensive play of the second half)? Typical behind the LOS bubble screen or quick slant? They didn't actually take a shot downfield, right?

Goff is 33rd in average depth of target. I think the first or second possession was really telling. 3rd & 8, and Anthony Lynn dials up a TE screen in which Hock catches the ball 3 yards behind the LOS. 

They treat Goof like a sophomore JV quarterback getting his first start with the varsity. Simply won't push the ball downfield and the QB doesn't trust anyone besides Hock. 

I missed that play, but it seemed like Goff didn't throw outside all game. Everything was a checkdown or between the hash marks. 

 

[BobbyLayne]

I missed that play, but it seemed like Goff didn't throw outside all game. Everything was a checkdown or between the hash marks. 

That’s been the script every game this season, especially the first 3 quarters. Once teams lay off and go to 2  high, he’ll throw outside to WRs - when the game has already been lost.. Add in the small hands / ball control issue, he’s clearly the worst non-rookie starter in the NFL.

 

[BobbyLayne]

The team failed to draw 50,000 in paid attendance for the first time since the 0-16 2008 season, with a reported figure of 47,129 tickets sold for Sunday's 44-6 loss to the Philadelphia Eagles. They are 31st in both average attendance (52,046j and capacity filled (80.7%.)

Michiganders are sensible folks, no reason to support this “sea of garage.” That’s an actual postgame quote from DC (who of course said the lack of energy and preparation was 100% on him.)

 

[BobbyLayne]

File this under sports is not actually all that important...

Jared Goff wore a decal with the initials JR on the back of his helmet yesterday. This was to honor SrA Joshua Reinwasser 10/26/1995 - 11/11/18 as part of the NFL’s Salute to Service. Joshua was a lifelong lions fan who unfortunately was lost to suicide on 11/11/18 while in service of the United States Air Force. After the game, Goff provided his helmet to the airman’s family to take home. 

As a combat veteran I appreciate stuff like this. The level of support for our active duty members is in stark contrast to the Vietnam era I grew up in or when I was active. There are 19 million Veterans in America and these kind of small gestures mean a lot to us. 

Per the most recent VA report available (2018), around 6,000 Veterans commit suicide each year. That’s an average of 17.6 suicides per day. It is estimated that number is declining (by around 3%) but goodness what a tragic statistic. I will say that mental health treatment for PTSD is way better now than it was 35 years ago. For the guys I work with at the Brooklyn VA Medical Center, the battle never ends.

 

[Zeppelin]

I didn't watch after it was 17-0, so I'm curious about the ARSB game yesterday. He was the only WR with a catch through 3 quarters, a week after getting zero targets v the Rams.

What was the 34 yard reception (first offensive play of the second half)? Typical behind the LOS bubble screen or quick slant? They didn't actually take a shot downfield, right?

Goff is 33rd in average depth of target. I think the first or second possession was really telling. 3rd & 8, and Anthony Lynn dials up a TE screen in which Hock catches the ball 3 yards behind the LOS. 

They treat Goof like a sophomore JV quarterback getting his first start with the varsity. Simply won't push the ball downfield and the QB doesn't trust anyone besides Hock. 

ARSB had a 35 yarder (actually thrown downfield!) called back by a stupid penalty (illegal formation).

 

[Zeppelin]

With Detroit's normal history, that means they're likely to lose by 30 on Sunday

Good call.

 

[Da Guru]

Against my better judgement I attended the game yesterday.   Even with free club seats and free parking I really did not want to go but took my daughters because they love going to any sporting event.

Best part was before the game, an hour of tailgating and meeting some friends at Nemos Bar.   Went dowhill after that.

Was what very concerning is that nobody in the crowd seemed to care they were getting destroyed again. Only the Eagle fans cheered and they were almost as many of team as Lions fans.   By the second quarter many of the people were in the corridors and stadiums bars watching other games.  Bu the mid third people were leaving, and by the fourth most left were all Eagle fans.

About midway through the third my daughters said "Lets get out of here and go to the bar..this is depressing"  We stayed until the end of third and left as people were pouring out of the stadium.

Being born in Detroit this is as bad of a team that I can remember, maybe worse than the last winless team.

I have no idea what kind of coach Cambell is.  Right now he is making time management blunders and questionable decisions but does it really matter?

 

[nysfl2]

Yeah, the decision to go for it on 4th and 1 with ~13 seconds left before halftime was terrible. I mean, even if you pick it up, you pretty much just have to spike the ball and kick the field goal anyway.

 

[BobbyLayne]

ARSB had a 35 yarder (actually thrown downfield!) called back by a stupid penalty (illegal formation).

So four of the last five G ARSB has seen 70% of snaps and an average of 7 targets excluding the Rams game when he was blanketed by the best slot corner in the league. Meant nothing bc they using him like JuJu. After yesterday there’s enough hope he should be rostered as a WR5 if you’re into that sort of thing. I only carry 4WR bc I like to have 7-9 RBs in redraft (18 x 12.)

Anyway, in a rare moment of lucidity Campbell said yesterday he believes they haven’t tapped into his potential and they absolutely have to push the ball downfield more. 

 

[Moonlight]

Yeah, the decision to go for it on 4th and 1 with ~13 seconds left before halftime was terrible. I mean, even if you pick it up, you pretty much just have to spike the ball and kick the field goal anyway.

A thousand times yes.

 

[Moonlight]

The team failed to draw 50,000 in paid attendance for the first time since the 0-16 2008 season, with a reported figure of 47,129 tickets sold for Sunday's 44-6 loss to the Philadelphia Eagles. They are 31st in both average attendance (52,046j and capacity filled (80.7%.)

Michiganders are sensible folks, no reason to support this “sea of garage.” That’s an actual postgame quote from DC (who of course said the lack of energy and preparation was 100% on him.)

As we said at the beginning of the season we were going to need patience to get through this year.

I think the Lions shot their wad against Stafford the week before. The numerous trick plays, the media attention of Stafford vs Goff, the Lions leading at the end of 3 quarters contributed to an upbeat mood. Lot of praise for how tough the Lions played the Rams.

So with a bare cupboard, lack of focus and upcoming bye week the Lions crapped the bed. What else can Campbell do but take responsibility. He is partly responsible for the result but not all of it. He can only play the players that he's been given and who are uninjured. He didn't ask Stafford to go to LA. Holmes has not provided any in season help though he should rightly be conserving draft choices. The Benson trade, Holmes he did make, seems to be a bust.

We had the worst defense last year added Brockers and 4 rookies and several low priority FAs. Lost Okudah and Ifi to injury. Rookies need time to adjust none have stood out as world beaters yet.

Lost all of our starting Wrs and our QB (who is having a MVP season) and then lost our two best linemen to injury. Our new supposedly world class OT has been having rookie struggles. Our best FA WR, Williams, has been lost to injury since the first game, Cephus our best returning WR has been lost to injury. 

So yeah its a terrible team which has played above its head on occasion and has been snakebit at the end of games when it was ahead.

It is discouraging to see Goff continue to make bonehead plays and hopefully Boyle or Blough get opportunities during the season. Campbell has made unwise decisions being reckless when he should be conservative. Its weird, I dont like it but we will see how it turns out in the long run.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Campbell has made unwise decisions being reckless when he should be conservative.

While true, it’s not hard to follow his line of thinking. “We have a deficit in talent, we need extra possessions, we need to take this chance.” 

But there are other layers to it. It’s like when you’re playing poker and the fish hits a set or makes an obvious straight, 3 bets and every He snap folds. He’s got the nuts and if he slow rolls he can build pot equity. But he’s desperate to take a hand down. Or they don’t things like shove with A-x or K-Qo. Everyone recognizes the fish lacks confidence he can outplay others post flop. 

I mean players might think “check the stones on this guy.” But savvy players are feeling like “dang he really doesn’t trust us.” And the other team is thinking whew dog are these guys thirsty or what?” DC keeps pushing low odds decisions, trying to be the hero, but more often than not it will fail.

 

[Moonlight]

While true, it’s not hard to follow his line of thinking. “We have a deficit in talent, we need extra possessions, we need to take this chance.” 

But there are other layers to it. It’s like when you’re playing poker and the fish hits a set or makes an obvious straight, 3 bets and every He snap folds. He’s got the nuts and if he slow rolls he can build pot equity. But he’s desperate to take a hand down. Or they don’t things like shove with A-x or K-Qo. Everyone recognizes the fish lacks confidence he can outplay others post flop. 

I mean players might think “check the stones on this guy.” But savvy players are feeling like “dang he really doesn’t trust us.” And the other team is thinking whew dog are these guys thirsty or what?” DC keeps pushing low odds decisions, trying to be the hero, but more often than not it will fail.

I get it, he needs to take more chances to offset talent discrepancy but you also need take chances when you have some chance of success. Going all in with 2-7 non suited isn't a winning strategy.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I get it, he needs to take more chances to offset talent discrepancy but you also need take chances when you have some chance of success. Going all in with 2-7 non suited isn't a winning strategy.

OK bu what if it’s suited?

I’ve been playing a lot of MTT and I’m simply amazed what people do in end game situations, especially when we’re three handed or H2H. I think the pressure gets to them and they make blunders they never would when we’re at 4 or 5 tables.  Like hey, we all run into a bluff catcher, but to keep barreling with your ####ty two pair when there are 4 connected cards....AND you’re getting retained every street...SMH  

These poker analogies may not perfectly illustrates DC’s in game coaching style, but the larger point remains - if you keep shoving, all you’re gonna be left with is a bad beat story. And if you’re getting in with the worst hand, you won’t even have that.

 

[Zeppelin]

The Lions should claim Odell Beckham Jr., who was just cut by the Browns. They restructured his contract and the cost will be low. Even with the baggage they are so desperate for WRs they should just go for it. There is really nothing to lose. Plus the added benefit of guaranteeing the Packers dont get him.