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2025 Detroit Lions: 4-1 Lions win battle of the big cats. (20 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
What did Holmes say?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Someone asked him if they are excited for Jamo in 23 because it will basically be his rookie year. Holmes said something like: we are very excited but it’s up to Jameson as well. He needs to be accountable too.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Glad to see Matt Patricia possibly headed to the Eagles. Seriously, this would make me very happy. 🖊
Moonlight
Footballguy
Do not see any of these QBs worthy of such a haul.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Slay has to be losing his mind rn
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
I’d like the Lions to trade up to No 3 and get Arizona’s pick, at least find out what is the asking price. If the price is ridiculous, meaning they want the Lions No 18 pick then forget it. If they’d take a 2nd rounder to move up or a 2nd and a 4th I’d do it. If we’re at 6 and the two top QBs are gone and the top 3 defenders are gone, that would be the worst situation for the Lions and at that point would look to trade back.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Watching the quick violence of Tyree Wilson is fun, and he could be there at the six spot if everyone goes as projected.
TartanLion
Footballguy
For a bit of absolute nonsense and fun, let’s discuss us trading Goff away off the back of a very good season and getting Lamar for 2 x 1sts.
Will never happen and rightly so but an interesting notion none the less.
Lamar with that Oline, AmonRa, Jamo, a very clever OC in a dome and a decent running game that would only benefit even more. D wouldn’t get top level prospects through top of draft but maybe FA could fill in some cracks and Holmes drafts well again from round 2 onwards. Strike while the iron is semi hot and put all chips in the middle - finding a top level young QB might be very difficult if we continue well as we have been doing and are drafting in the back half of round 1 in future years.
Ultimately, I would not want us to do this and we should keep along the same lines as we have been doing, however, imagining Lamar running riot in Detroit is a fun momentary thought
Will never happen and rightly so but an interesting notion none the less.
Lamar with that Oline, AmonRa, Jamo, a very clever OC in a dome and a decent running game that would only benefit even more. D wouldn’t get top level prospects through top of draft but maybe FA could fill in some cracks and Holmes drafts well again from round 2 onwards. Strike while the iron is semi hot and put all chips in the middle - finding a top level young QB might be very difficult if we continue well as we have been doing and are drafting in the back half of round 1 in future years.
Ultimately, I would not want us to do this and we should keep along the same lines as we have been doing, however, imagining Lamar running riot in Detroit is a fun momentary thought
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Is there even a market for Lamar? Serious Q.
He runs an offense in Baltimore that is singular. No one else is trying to copy them. I think he's super effective in Baltimore but I'm not convinced he'd be a guy to build around.
I get why Detroit fans like to speculate it, there isn't a whole lot of movement for players of that caliber. But it doesn't make sense for what we're trying to accomplish. IMO
He runs an offense in Baltimore that is singular. No one else is trying to copy them. I think he's super effective in Baltimore but I'm not convinced he'd be a guy to build around.
I get why Detroit fans like to speculate it, there isn't a whole lot of movement for players of that caliber. But it doesn't make sense for what we're trying to accomplish. IMO
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I do not want Lamar Jackson as the Detroit Lions quarterback, and that is all I have to say about that.
-Forrest Gump
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I would say the biggest speculation around Lamar is that the Baltimore offense is holding him back. You have a QB with elite speed and their answer is to run a bunch of multiple TE heavy packages and crowd the LOS. Seems to me you would want to run a more spread offense and create space for Lamar.
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TartanLion
Footballguy
Totally. The mark against Roman is that he would squeeze the field and make it very cluttered in the middle when creating space and holes would seem like the obvious route to go. Ben Johnson would have a lot of fun creating all kinds of plays
Agree with the replies so far anyways. Just thought it was a interesting notion
Foosball God
Foos
Say no to Lamar. Contract that will constrain the rest of the roster and then guaranteed money he wants with his injury history? No thanks.
Apple Juice
Footballguy
I think everyone's image of Lamar is his bonkers MVP season when he totally took the league off guard. Since then he's been pretty inconsistent and terrible in the playoffs. He's still capable of taking over a game but I think the perception of his talent and the reality of what he brings are far apart.
Even though teams are saying they aren't interested now, and certainly won't give him the guaranteed money he wants, he'll still end up with a crippling deal and take a team like Indy or Atl nowhere.
Even though teams are saying they aren't interested now, and certainly won't give him the guaranteed money he wants, he'll still end up with a crippling deal and take a team like Indy or Atl nowhere.
Moonlight
Footballguy
Patricia to the Eagles would certainly contribute to the Super Bowl loser's jinx coming about. Eagles have enough challenges with so many players eligible for FA.
Moonlight
Footballguy
Situations like this are interesting on how they will play out. Was the Baltimore offense based on Lamar's limitations or has he been succeeding despite of it and would flourish elsewhere? I do not know. If a team puts big bucks into the QB position, the guy has to be a difference maker or you get dragged down.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Several Teams announce they are not in the LJax market
Atlanta, Carolina, and Washington are amongst the teams who desperately need a franchise QB who are saying no thanks. Doesn't make sense for teams who already have a competent QB either.
Atlanta, Carolina, and Washington are amongst the teams who desperately need a franchise QB who are saying no thanks. Doesn't make sense for teams who already have a competent QB either.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Similar to Jamaal Williams, it's going to come down to money...both seem like they would take a hometown discount but the amount is the question.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
They are all lying.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
The bolded describes most of the QBs in the league, except they didn't have the bonkers season to begin with. I would give up 10 Kirk Cousins to get one Lamar. Cousins has somehow made over $230M over his career. Lamar only $32M. At some point, you either decide to throw big money at a franchise guy (there are very few worth the money) or you back to the draft.
Foosball God
Foos
I think a lot of them aren't interested in negotiating with Lamar since he is representing himself, and don't think it's worth their time when Baltimore will likely match unless there is an obscene amount of guaranteed money and most owners would like DeShaun's contract to be an outlier and not the norm.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I think the owners are really trying to end the idea of guaranteed contracts that the Watson deal triggered.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Obviously this won't happen but I had a vision of the Lions going Rams style all in:
- Trade pick 18 for Ramsey
- Trade a 2nd or 3rd for Slay
- Trade a 2nd for Hopkins
- Trade back from 6 to get some more assets to make up for what was lost
Not going to happen but IF they did, Lions are probably top 4 SB favorite, right?
- Trade pick 18 for Ramsey
- Trade a 2nd or 3rd for Slay
- Trade a 2nd for Hopkins
- Trade back from 6 to get some more assets to make up for what was lost
Not going to happen but IF they did, Lions are probably top 4 SB favorite, right?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
math
cap space $21M need $11M to sign the draft class so effectively $10M before making cuts
- Hopkins cap hit $30M base $19.5M
- Slay cap hit $26M base $17M
- Ramsey cap hit $25M base $17M
Big V nets you about $6.5M....only $36M to go.
(-11.0+19.5+17.0+17.0-6.5)
This brings up something that hasn't been discussed much...the salary cap management aspect of being a GM. Holmes has shown he can draft but as we move forward he will have much tougher decisions regarding managing the cap.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
The draft, free agency, trades, + the cap. Despite what some numb nuts out there think, it's not easy being an NFL GM. So far Holmes seems to be on the right track.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Oh yeah not realistic for many reasons. The contracts on Hopkins and Slay are rough.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Some tough decisions. I guess that's the one bright side of Okudah being a bust, we don't need to lock him up to top corner money. Sewell and Amon Ra are going to want $$$ though. Rookie QB makes a lot of sense at 6 to be groomed to replace Goff in a year or 2 so we don't get stuck having to shell out a Derrick Carr type contract for Goff.
I bet we extend Goff a couple more years, and soon er rather than later.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That makes me really nervous.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Good haul by the bears, but I'm happy we won't be facing Will Anderson twice a year.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I liked having the Panthers behind us with Atlanta and Vegas. That seemed to increase the odds one of them would want to trade with us to get the jump on a QB who slips.With the Panthers trading up to the number one pick, could there be a team like the Raiders or Falcons that want a QB and maybe trade up to Arizona's 3rd overall pick? That would be music to the ears of Lions fans.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Arizona will have McCoy starting half the year, trying to move Hopkins and should be in full tank mode. Wouldn’t be surprised if someone jumps the Colts to trade for the Cards pick.
That would setup a QB x4 start and ensure we get a blue chip DL.
Of course I’m content with a LCB + Kancey start so even if it starts 3 QBs, Anderson & Carter I think we’ll be a Day 1 winner.
Also I think is a plus, the Bears get DJ Moore which makes it less likely they will go after DJ Chark. I am pretty sure rules prohibit having two DJs on the same team.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I like Witherspoon's tape better but I think they have to pass on taking him at 1.06.
1.06
Looking more and more like Will Anderson or Tyree Wilson anyway (I'm of the opinion Carter is off their board.) Anderson is a no brainer if he falls, and if he's gone Wilson (I think) would be the pick over Christian Gonzalez bc it would be incredible having that kind of talent at both Edge positions. Then again if Anderson and Carter go in the Top 5 (along with 3 QBs) then they have to consider moving back and picking up another 2nd or 3rd round pick.
1.18
If they start out at Edge then I prefer they take Joey Porter Jr, Deonte Banks or Brian Branch at 1.18 (presuming Gonzalez and Witherspoon will be off the board.) Calijah Kancey at 1.18 is super intriguing as well. A lot depends on this week and if they resign John Cominsky. The Commish and Josh Paschal can both play either 3-Tech or 5-Tech so the rotation would be fine whether they take the undersized Pitt DT or not.
The consensus across media mocks are Gonzalez 1.06 and Kancey 1.18, but that was before the Panthers moved up. There is of course a lot of variance, FA signings will shake things up.a bit.
2nd Round - pick 48 an 55
IDK who will be there at 48 or 55 but Tyrique Stevenson Miami or Julius Brents KSU would both be terrific picks. Also hoping G Steve Avila TCU gets picked up around there. A lot of people are in love with LB Jack Campbell Iowa in the 2nd but I don't think Holmes will put that much draft capital into off-ball LB.
Extra Day 2 pick from possible trade
EDIT: if they move back from 1.06 then I like taking another DL. Felix Anudike-Uzomah KSU or Adetomiwa Adebawore Northwestern both tick all the Homes draft pick boxes: uber athletic, good college production, impossible names.
3rd round - pick 81
I like S Sydney Brown Illinois or OLB DeMarvion Overshown Texas at 81, or TE Tucker Kraft South Dakota State.
Day 3 - pick 153 182 and 193
With Jonah up next year I wonder if they'll future proof by taking a second OG in the 5th/6th. Chandler Zavala NC State or Antonio Mafi UCLA are good candidates, but Jaxson Kirkland Washington would be amazing value; 6'7" 321 In 5 seasons at Washington he started RG, LT and LG. Could be the swing tackle his rookie year and possibly move into a starting position if they let Jackson walk (he's a good player but sometimes you have to reload and take the comp pick.)
A project QB like Aiden O'Connell Purdue or Clayton Tune Houston would be a nice value in the 6th.
I also think the 6th might be a place to find a decent Slot CB/Dime player from smaller somewhat overlooked schools - Quindell Johnson Memphis, Starling Thomas V UAB or Nic Jones Ball State are all good candidates.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
I think Arizona gets stuck at 3.
1. Car- Stroud
2. Hou- Young
3. Ari- Anderson They will want to trade desperately but I just can't see Vegas or Atlanta offering a massive package for Levis or Richardson. That is a lot to give up for an older QB prospect who couldn't win the PSU job and is coming off a pretty bad season. It's also a lot to pay for a QB who might be ready to start his rookie year.
4. Ind- Levis
5. Sea- Carter
I did hear a couple interesting Lions adjacent tidbits from someone covering the Combine. Cody Carpentier (playerprofiler) said he was asking as many scouts, DL and OL players who the best lineman in college football was. He said the name that came up the most was the kid from KState. He said nobody ever mentioned Tyree. When he told people Tyree was a projected top 5-10 pick, everyone to a man was stunned. Scouts were pointing to his sack numbers and saying this guy isn't a pass rusher. He had similar conversations about Kancey. The NW DE/DT tweener was the player they thought should be going in the 1st, not Kancey.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
There are a lot of different roles encompassed in the Edge position, it's is almost becoming a garbage pail term bc they toss so many different styles into the same bucket. The more I listen to film guys the more I appreciate the functional roles you need from different players. 1-tech/NT whose chief functions (occupying two blockers, clogging running lanes) doesn't show up in the stat sheet. A 3-tech who is a good run defender (pass rusher from inside is super rare and why Kancey, the kind of leverage, is so intriguing.) A 5-tech who can either run stunts or set the edge. The best 9-techs are often guys who are just pass rush specialists; their only role is to create pressure from the outside. They might drop off but you don't want them covering anyone, that's just to confuse the QB like Hutch forcing the Okudah pick 6 last year by dropping off to blow up a TE screen to Kmet. Guys who play every down and do just about everything like Anderson (or Hutch) are unicorns, you're only going to find 1-2 per draft. But that's fine - figure out what players can do and utilize that bc what they can't do isn't anywhere near as important.
It's almost like old school basketball where you had a shooting guard, a power forward who could rebound and play D, a cornerman/swingman who might be a small forward or a big guard but he was a good shooter (who often couldn't play D.) Like none of these guys were stand alone blue chip, but you put them all together and they mesh, remove one and the team just doesn't function the same.
So like in this draft you've got lightweight speed rushers like Nolan Smith or McDonald or Ojulari - in theory they can be LBs and occasionally you change up the front or disguise coverages but their primary (part-time) role is 9-tech. You have Edge rushers like the Kansas State hyphenated guy or the Nigerian out of Northwestern (I'll learn how to spell 'em after we draft them) who can be 5-techs but also slide inside (& maybe the USC Samoan but he came in light) - but probably won't be way outside all that much. To me, Tyree Wilson looks like a great 5-tech but that's a lot of capital for a guy who can't do too many things. He has great speed-to-power and will be a star in the NFL, I just don't know if I want that over a press Cornerback or an every down DL.
Hope that rambling makes a little bit of sense.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Here is my Lions Post Combine Mock:
Falcons give us pick 44 and in '24 we swap our 6th for their 4th, they do this to jump the Raiders and land Richardson
09 CB Devon Witherspoon Illinois Choosing between him and Gonzalez is really hard. I personally prefer Gonzalez but I think Campbell and Holmes will fall in love with the way Witherspoon approaches the game.
18 CB Joey Porter Jr Penn State I've said for awhile that doubling down at CB should absolutely be on the table for Detroit. I don't think it's entirely likely that Porter actually falls this far but maybe teams covet the couple of legit WR prospects in the draft, target positional value at OL or fall for combine risers like Nolan Smith.
Panthers needing more picks after their big move give us pick 39 for pick 55 and 81.
39 DE/DT Adetomiwa Adebawore NW The all Big 10 defensive draft continues. The athletic freak of freaks. 4.4 speed at 280 pounds. I think the goal would be to get 10 more pounds on him and play him as an interior disruptor.
44 OG Steve Avila TCU 3 year starer, team captain and massive 330 pounder who can also play C. He should do just fine inbetween Ragnow and Sewell. The OL is our biggest strength and we should continue investing in it to keep it that way.
48 TE Darnell Washington UGA He's maybe better described as a pass catching right tackle. Off the charts size and athleticism who can help the run game, provide the occasional big play on a a TE screen and is a matchup problem in the red zone. He feels like a guy Dan Campbell would fall in love with.
This was kind of a pipe dream draft getting those trades and having some really good players fall but that Honolulu Blue Kool Aid sure tastes good this time of year.
Falcons give us pick 44 and in '24 we swap our 6th for their 4th, they do this to jump the Raiders and land Richardson
09 CB Devon Witherspoon Illinois Choosing between him and Gonzalez is really hard. I personally prefer Gonzalez but I think Campbell and Holmes will fall in love with the way Witherspoon approaches the game.
18 CB Joey Porter Jr Penn State I've said for awhile that doubling down at CB should absolutely be on the table for Detroit. I don't think it's entirely likely that Porter actually falls this far but maybe teams covet the couple of legit WR prospects in the draft, target positional value at OL or fall for combine risers like Nolan Smith.
Panthers needing more picks after their big move give us pick 39 for pick 55 and 81.
39 DE/DT Adetomiwa Adebawore NW The all Big 10 defensive draft continues. The athletic freak of freaks. 4.4 speed at 280 pounds. I think the goal would be to get 10 more pounds on him and play him as an interior disruptor.
44 OG Steve Avila TCU 3 year starer, team captain and massive 330 pounder who can also play C. He should do just fine inbetween Ragnow and Sewell. The OL is our biggest strength and we should continue investing in it to keep it that way.
48 TE Darnell Washington UGA He's maybe better described as a pass catching right tackle. Off the charts size and athleticism who can help the run game, provide the occasional big play on a a TE screen and is a matchup problem in the red zone. He feels like a guy Dan Campbell would fall in love with.
This was kind of a pipe dream draft getting those trades and having some really good players fall but that Honolulu Blue Kool Aid sure tastes good this time of year.
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Foosball God
Foos
If a third rounder and a medicore TE were all it took to get Ramsey then I'm bummed the Lions weren't in on it.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I'm not sure if he had any veto power on trades, but:
"Shortly after news of the trade broke, Ramsey indicated on social media that Miami was his preferred destination." - associated press
"I prayed for this specifically for about a month & now it’s happening! @MiamiDolphins LETSGO!" Ramsey tweeted Sunday.
The Rams went 5-12 last season and missed the playoffs
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I bet the Rams worked with Ramsey to find a place he was happy with. He might not have technically had veto power but no team is going to trade for that contract without assurance that Ramsey is excited to join them.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Lions have $21.5M in Cap Space
Ramsey's guaranteed contract is $17M for 2023 and $18.5M for 2024 (he's also due another $18.5M in 2025 but it's not guaranteed.)
Def could have made the move but would have limited what else we could do.
Lions will need about $7.5M to sign the rookie draft class ($11,822,063 for the first 5 picks, less the bottom 5 of the Cap, e.g., #47-51 of the signed players who count against the cap number. The Day 3 guys won't be in the top 51 so no need to consider their impact)
possible cap moves
Should be noted none of these have happened yet and the rumor on Twitter is we're considering keeping big V.
Internal FA
Jamaal Williams 2y/10m (3.5m)
John Cominsky 2y/8m (3m)
Isaiah Buggs 1y/2.5m (2.5m)
Not sure if these are realistic but that's what PFF is projecting.
Anyway, $9.0M total = $23.5M for external FA. That number would be, at best, around $7.5 if we had traded for Ramsey. The impact of trading for Slay Jr would be the same - his cap # this year is identical to Ramsey.
Ramsey's guaranteed contract is $17M for 2023 and $18.5M for 2024 (he's also due another $18.5M in 2025 but it's not guaranteed.)
Def could have made the move but would have limited what else we could do.
Lions will need about $7.5M to sign the rookie draft class ($11,822,063 for the first 5 picks, less the bottom 5 of the Cap, e.g., #47-51 of the signed players who count against the cap number. The Day 3 guys won't be in the top 51 so no need to consider their impact)
possible cap moves
- Cut Charles Harris, $4m saved
- Cut Vitai, $6.5m saved
- Restructure of Ragnow’s contract, $8m saved
Should be noted none of these have happened yet and the rumor on Twitter is we're considering keeping big V.
Internal FA
Jamaal Williams 2y/10m (3.5m)
John Cominsky 2y/8m (3m)
Isaiah Buggs 1y/2.5m (2.5m)
Not sure if these are realistic but that's what PFF is projecting.
Anyway, $9.0M total = $23.5M for external FA. That number would be, at best, around $7.5 if we had traded for Ramsey. The impact of trading for Slay Jr would be the same - his cap # this year is identical to Ramsey.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Detroit Lions unrestricted free agents
Don't agree with all of Kyle Meinke's thoughts here but we'll probably sign more than just the 3 I listed above.
Don't agree with all of Kyle Meinke's thoughts here but we'll probably sign more than just the 3 I listed above.
