2025 Detroit Lions: 7-4 On the Thanksgiving menu: GB Packers (103 Viewers)

[msudaisy26]

There are seven games left so there is time to get players back and fix the issues, but right now this team looks at best to win a wildcard game if they win their division and get bounced second round.

They are averaging 29 points a game, but averaging almost 43 against bottom 10 defenses. They are getting sacks, but they are on the blitz and against mostly bad qbs that can't take advantage. The numbers feel like they are an elite team, but they are six and four and could be out of the playoffs depending on tie breakers with the 49ers. My feeling is they are above average team with inflated numbers, not an elite team with some bad luck. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Payne]

This is the best Detroit Defense we have seen in over a decade. With Dan calling the offense, this is the best team in the NFC.

Total Defense: 7th in the league, allowing 294.0 yards per game.
Sacks: 4th in the league with 30 sacks.
Points Allowed: 11th in opposing points per game (21.5).
Passing Defense: 16th
Rushing Defense: Currently ranked 5th in the league, allowing 87.7 yards per game after a recent improvement.
Turnover Differential: 4th in the NFL with a +6 turnover differential.
Opponent 3rd Down Conversion: Ranks 1st in the league with a 32.49% conversion rate.
Opponent Red Zone Scoring: Ranks 12th with a 54.24% touchdown percentage.

No they are not.

 

[Payne]

I'm going to be a realist here. Maybe they just aren't as good as we thought.

They have been exposed against the three best defenses they have played this year. And like msudaisy said, the Giants have a great D line.
This is going to be another test for the o line.

Honestly, no shot at jon_mx here, but Holmes had a huge part in them losing yesterday. We ALL knew the interior of the line needed help.
He did not address it enough in free agency, the draft or the trade deadline.
Not to mention, Phillips had 5 tackles, 1 sack, a TFL and as many hits on Goff as our entire defense had last night.

Dan is also responsible. The defense was playing lights out. It's ok to punt and play the field position game, especially a road game in that environment.
He did not call a good game at all. He admitted after the game he may have cost them. There is aggressive and there is dumb.

The positive? The defense played ridiculous. While it seems obvious the offense misses Johnson, Sheppard has far exceeded my expectations.

The offense let this team down last night.

 

[Zeppelin]

The Lions success or failure will be directly related to whether the issues in the interior of the offensive line can be fixed. I'm not sure they can but its the reason why they lost all 4 of their games. It really is that simple.

 

[Da Guru]

I am worried about the game coming up against the Giants. They aren't very good, but they play tough, and have a really good defensive line. Plus remember last year when teams had the Lions hangover and went like 3 and 16 after playing the Lions? I think the Eagles might have done that to the Lions.

The Rams, Seahawks, Bucs, Lions and Packers are all going to regret not going after Phillips, especially if the Eagles can fix their offense a little and just be average.

Phillips is a talented player and pass rusher who was in a bad situation. Yes, all the mentioned teams would gladly give up a third now for him.

One play that really stuck out for me was 4th and goal from the 5, Goff had Wright wide open on a crossing pattern for an easy TD but went deep in the end zone for St Brown who was not open.

Defense played great and kept the Lions in the game time after time.

Both coaches made some decision making blunders. Why Philly went for it late up by 2 scores when Lions could not move the ball was inexcusable. DC did not do his team any favors last night either. Lions could have stole this game even with how bad they played offensively.

 

[Zeppelin]

I am worried about the game coming up against the Giants. They aren't very good, but they play tough, and have a really good defensive line. Plus remember last year when teams had the Lions hangover and went like 3 and 16 after playing the Lions? I think the Eagles might have done that to the Lions.

The Rams, Seahawks, Bucs, Lions and Packers are all going to regret not going after Phillips, especially if the Eagles can fix their offense a little and just be average.

Phillips is a talented player and pass rusher who was in a bad situation. Yes, all the mentioned teams would gladly give up a third now for him.

One play that really stuck out for me was 4th and goal from the 5, Goff had Wright wide open on a crossing pattern for an easy TD but went deep in the end zone for St Brown who was not open.

Defense played great and kept the Lions in the game time after time.

Both coaches made some decision making blunders. Why Philly went for it late up by 2 scores when Lions could not move the ball was inexcusable. DC did not do his team any favors last night either. Lions could have stole this game even with how bad they played offensively.

I'm wondering if Goff even saw Wright.

 

[Moonlight]

I'm going to be a realist here. Maybe they just aren't as good as we thought.

They have been exposed against the three best defenses they have played this year. And like msudaisy said, the Giants have a great D line.
This is going to be another test for the o line.

Honestly, no shot at jon_mx here, but Holmes had a huge part in them losing yesterday. We ALL knew the interior of the line needed help.
He did not address it enough in free agency, the draft or the trade deadline.
Not to mention, Phillips had 5 tackles, 1 sack, a TFL and as many hits on Goff as our entire defense had last night.

Dan is also responsible. The defense was playing lights out. It's ok to punt and play the field position game, especially a road game in that environment.
He did not call a good game at all. He admitted after the game he may have cost them. There is aggressive and there is dumb.

The positive? The defense played ridiculous. While it seems obvious the offense misses Johnson, Sheppard has far exceeded my expectations.

The offense let this team down last night.

Its a sour taste when the eagles use a third rounder to upgrade their defense and Holmes frittered away three of them on Teslaa who has not moved the needle for the Lions this year. Teslaa has the tools to be a very good player but he hasn't contributed much except with special teams.
Overall you have to judge by his overall work and Holmes has turned the Lions around.
But we all have things that we need to improve.

 

[Da Guru]

I am worried about the game coming up against the Giants. They aren't very good, but they play tough, and have a really good defensive line. Plus remember last year when teams had the Lions hangover and went like 3 and 16 after playing the Lions? I think the Eagles might have done that to the Lions.

The Rams, Seahawks, Bucs, Lions and Packers are all going to regret not going after Phillips, especially if the Eagles can fix their offense a little and just be average.

Phillips is a talented player and pass rusher who was in a bad situation. Yes, all the mentioned teams would gladly give up a third now for him.

One play that really stuck out for me was 4th and goal from the 5, Goff had Wright wide open on a crossing pattern for an easy TD but went deep in the end zone for St Brown who was not open.

Defense played great and kept the Lions in the game time after time.

Both coaches made some decision making blunders. Why Philly went for it late up by 2 scores when Lions could not move the ball was inexcusable. DC did not do his team any favors last night either. Lions could have stole this game even with how bad they played offensively.

I'm wondering if Goff even saw Wright.

I guess not but Wright was in the same line of sight as St Brown. I know it is easy for me to say but Goff should have started pump faking to get the Eagles tackles off balance, seemed like the got their hands on at 7-8 passes.

 

[Moonlight]

I am worried about the game coming up against the Giants. They aren't very good, but they play tough, and have a really good defensive line. Plus remember last year when teams had the Lions hangover and went like 3 and 16 after playing the Lions? I think the Eagles might have done that to the Lions.

The Rams, Seahawks, Bucs, Lions and Packers are all going to regret not going after Phillips, especially if the Eagles can fix their offense a little and just be average.

Phillips is a talented player and pass rusher who was in a bad situation. Yes, all the mentioned teams would gladly give up a third now for him.

One play that really stuck out for me was 4th and goal from the 5, Goff had Wright wide open on a crossing pattern for an easy TD but went deep in the end zone for St Brown who was not open.

Defense played great and kept the Lions in the game time after time.

Both coaches made some decision making blunders. Why Philly went for it late up by 2 scores when Lions could not move the ball was inexcusable. DC did not do his team any favors last night either. Lions could have stole this game even with how bad they played offensively.

I thought the Eagles made a horrible decision on Monday night when they tried the long pass on 4th down vs KC and gave the Chiefs field position to kick a fg. This decision was even worse you cant get away with that forever going to cost them at some point.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

The Lions success or failure will be directly related to whether the issues in the interior of the offensive line can be fixed. I'm not sure they can but its the reason why they lost all 4 of their games. It really is that simple.

It's definitely the main thing. Going from Ragnow to Glasgow was never going to be smooth. Eventually I expect them to move Ratledge to center, but that may be too much of a transition mid year, year two Ragnow made that move. Doesn't do them any good right now, but I expect a vet guard to be brought in the off season.

I thought the defense did a good job holding them to 16.

 

[TartanLion]

Ragnow retiring AFTER the draft was a killer. Williams may still prove to be useful but you’d have to think we’d have looked at taking whatever highest rated Center was available at that point in the draft or at least double dipping guard rounds 1-4. Free agency obviously also having run its course by then as well.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Ragnow retiring AFTER the draft was a killer. Williams may still prove to be useful but you’d have to think we’d have looked at taking whatever highest rated Center was available at that point in the draft or at least double dipping guard rounds 1-4. Free agency obviously also having run its course by then as well.

Yes the timing could have been better, a year learning from Ragnow would have been nice to have for the younger players.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Cross posting from the "Post here when coaches do something you disagree with" thread:

Anyone familiar with my work on this site probably knows two things about me: I'm generally in favor of coaches being more aggressive on 4th down calls, and I love Dan Campbell in a way that multiple states would probably try to ban if they could.

All that said, I don't think he called a good game last night. It wasn't so much the decisions to keep going for it that bothered me, more that Campbell kept calling the same two plays: an interior run to Gibbs (never Monty) and a slow developing pass play that the Eagles DTs blew up. They’re usually so creative in those situations (then again, they did try to get creative on the fake punt and the Eagles sniffed that out, too).

When your interior OL is your Achilles Heel and you're facing some of the best DTs in the league, anything you try to do on offense will be hard. But the Lions knew all this coming in. They either needed to come up with a plan to overcome it or not keep risking everything on 4th down plays that didn't seem to have a chance

 

[Snotbubbles]

I am worried about the game coming up against the Giants. They aren't very good, but they play tough, and have a really good defensive line. Plus remember last year when teams had the Lions hangover and went like 3 and 16 after playing the Lions? I think the Eagles might have done that to the Lions.

The Rams, Seahawks, Bucs, Lions and Packers are all going to regret not going after Phillips, especially if the Eagles can fix their offense a little and just be average.

I'm putting huge coin on Detroit in that game. Since Skattebo got injured, and now Dart, they just don't have the horses.

 

[msudaisy26]

Ragnow retiring AFTER the draft was a killer. Williams may still prove to be useful but you’d have to think we’d have looked at taking whatever highest rated Center was available at that point in the draft or at least double dipping guard rounds 1-4. Free agency obviously also having run its course by then as well.

Yes the timing could have been better, a year learning from Ragnow would have been nice to have for the younger players.

Lions knew Frank Ragnow was considering retirement, say it wasn’t about contract

"And the other thing is quite frankly, some of the stuff about contract talk, that’s disrespectful. That’s not what this was ever about. Anyway, love you, Frank. Appreciate you.”

www.mlive.com

In the article Campbell said they knew he was considering retire for a while. This wasn't something that should have surprised them.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Also, realized something today about the NFC playoff race. The East and South seem likely to send only one team (maybe if the Panthers go on a run, they can contend for a wildcard spot). Meanwhile, the North and West both have three teams in contention. Do the math, and there are only five spots left for six teams, which means one of those six will be left without a chair when the music stops.

Two spots will go to division winners. Whoever loses the West between Seattle and LA is almost guaranteed to get a wildcard. That means the Lions either have to win the division or else beat out SF or the NFC North rival who doesn't win the division in order to make the wildcard. If the season ended today they'd be out

 

[msudaisy26]

Also, realized something today about the NFC playoff race. The East and South seem likely to send only one team (maybe if the Panthers go on a run, they can contend for a wildcard spot). Meanwhile, the North and West both have three teams in contention. Do the math, and there are only five spots left for six teams, which means one of those six will be left without a chair when the music stops.

Two spots will go to division winners. Whoever loses the West between Seattle and LA is almost guaranteed to get a wildcard. That means the Lions either have to win the division or else beat out SF or the NFC North rival who doesn't win the division in order to make the wildcard. If the season ended today they'd be out

Do you know who holds the tie breakers with Detriot, San Fran and Chicago? I know the Lions have it with thr Bears right now, but they still play later in the year and the 49ers and Bears play, but what is there is a three way tie for the last two spots? Green Bay is unlikely to have to worry about this since they will be either in or out with that tie.

 

[swabs]

Bears rest of schedule is brutal. We'll see who they really are. 2x GB, Philly, SF, Pit, Lions. Oh and the browns.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Also, realized something today about the NFC playoff race. The East and South seem likely to send only one team (maybe if the Panthers go on a run, they can contend for a wildcard spot). Meanwhile, the North and West both have three teams in contention. Do the math, and there are only five spots left for six teams, which means one of those six will be left without a chair when the music stops.

Two spots will go to division winners. Whoever loses the West between Seattle and LA is almost guaranteed to get a wildcard. That means the Lions either have to win the division or else beat out SF or the NFC North rival who doesn't win the division in order to make the wildcard. If the season ended today they'd be out

Do you know who holds the tie breakers with Detriot, San Fran and Chicago? I know the Lions have it with thr Bears right now, but they still play later in the year and the 49ers and Bears play, but what is there is a three way tie for the last two spots? Green Bay is unlikely to have to worry about this since they will be either in or out with that tie.

Lions and Niners both have four losses, but three of Detroit's have been to NFC teams and only two of SF's have. Also, six of the Lions final seven games are against NFC opponents, whereas only three of SF's final six are. All of which means it will be tough for them to win a tiebreaker with SF.

Also, keep in mind that in the case of three-way ties for wildcards that involve two teams from the same division, the NFL first breaks the tie between the two division-mates, then between the better of those two and the third team. That's the case even if the lesser divisional team would win a three-way tiebreaker. The logic is that if you finish in 3rd place in your division, you can't get a playoff spot ahead of the 2nd place team

 

[Leroy Hoard]

In terms of division winner tiebreaker, I believe it's head to head, then division record. The winner of the GB/Det/bears games could decide it with both currently better than Chicago. So the Packers and Bears games both must wins.

 

[Da Guru]

The Lions success or failure will be directly related to whether the issues in the interior of the offensive line can be fixed. I'm not sure they can but its the reason why they lost all 4 of their games. It really is that simple.

It's definitely the main thing. Going from Ragnow to Glasgow was never going to be smooth. Eventually I expect them to move Ratledge to center, but that may be too much of a transition mid year, year two Ragnow made that move. Doesn't do them any good right now, but I expect a vet guard to be brought in the off season.

I thought the defense did a good job holding them to 16.

Ragnow retiring AFTER the draft was a killer. Williams may still prove to be useful but you’d have to think we’d have looked at taking whatever highest rated Center was available at that point in the draft or at least double dipping guard rounds 1-4. Free agency obviously also having run its course by then as well.

Yes the timing could have been better, a year learning from Ragnow would have been nice to have for the younger players.

Lions knew Frank Ragnow was considering retirement, say it wasn’t about contract

"And the other thing is quite frankly, some of the stuff about contract talk, that’s disrespectful. That’s not what this was ever about. Anyway, love you, Frank. Appreciate you.”

www.mlive.com

In the article Campbell said they knew he was considering retire for a while. This wasn't something that should have surprised them.

Rags was the leagues highest paid center when he signed his extension. It was never about $$$. his body was failing. Been playing through that toe for a few years now and could not take it anymore.

The guy has chronic turf toe on his big toe that will never get better, there can`t do anymore surgery on the tendon. Right now his loss is really hurting the o-line. Glasgow is a much better guard than center.

 

[msudaisy26]

The Lions success or failure will be directly related to whether the issues in the interior of the offensive line can be fixed. I'm not sure they can but its the reason why they lost all 4 of their games. It really is that simple.

It's definitely the main thing. Going from Ragnow to Glasgow was never going to be smooth. Eventually I expect them to move Ratledge to center, but that may be too much of a transition mid year, year two Ragnow made that move. Doesn't do them any good right now, but I expect a vet guard to be brought in the off season.

I thought the defense did a good job holding them to 16.

Ragnow retiring AFTER the draft was a killer. Williams may still prove to be useful but you’d have to think we’d have looked at taking whatever highest rated Center was available at that point in the draft or at least double dipping guard rounds 1-4. Free agency obviously also having run its course by then as well.

Yes the timing could have been better, a year learning from Ragnow would have been nice to have for the younger players.

Lions knew Frank Ragnow was considering retirement, say it wasn’t about contract

"And the other thing is quite frankly, some of the stuff about contract talk, that’s disrespectful. That’s not what this was ever about. Anyway, love you, Frank. Appreciate you.”

www.mlive.com

In the article Campbell said they knew he was considering retire for a while. This wasn't something that should have surprised them.

Rags was the leagues highest paid center when he signed his extension. It was never about $$$. his body was failing. Been playing through that toe for a few years now and could not take it anymore.

The guy has chronic turf toe on his big toe that will never get better, there can`t do anymore surgery on the tendon. Right now his loss is really hurting the o-line. Glasgow is a much better guard than center.

That is what the article said. Money had nothing to do with it and rhe Lions knew for a while he was contemplating retirement because of his injuries.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Lions out gained the Eagles but decisively lost the time of possession. Ragnow retirement has been significant as teams continue to pressure Goff up the middle.
Expect more of the same from other teams who have the personnel to bring it like the Vikes did.

Close game played on the Eagles home field. Making a few of those 4th downs would have been nice. But Eagles said not today.

Jamo continues to be 25% knucklehead.

Knucklehead is really the perfect term. By all accounts he's a sweet, well-meaning guy. Even the PED suspension from last year seems to have been a case of unknowingly taking a banned ingredient rather than actively conspiring to cheat (although of course we never know the details of these suspensions and players can leak whatever they want). The constant pattern is a guy who should know better but just can't help himself from doing dumb s###

 

[Da Guru]

Lions out gained the Eagles but decisively lost the time of possession. Ragnow retirement has been significant as teams continue to pressure Goff up the middle.
Expect more of the same from other teams who have the personnel to bring it like the Vikes did.

Close game played on the Eagles home field. Making a few of those 4th downs would have been nice. But Eagles said not today.

Jamo continues to be 25% knucklehead.

Knucklehead is really the perfect term. By all accounts he's a sweet, well-meaning guy. Even the PED suspension from last year seems to have been a case of unknowingly taking a banned ingredient rather than actively conspiring to cheat (although of course we never know the details of these suspensions and players can leak whatever they want). The constant pattern is a guy who should know better but just can't help himself from doing dumb s###

Williams is in his 4th season and still a knucklehead. Points were at a premium, if the Lions had managed a late TD, that could of cost the Lions the game.

Player can now dance and do whatever they want, but players know you can`t use the goal posts as a prop, you can`t touch or dunk over the goal posts.

 

[msudaisy26]

Lions out gained the Eagles but decisively lost the time of possession. Ragnow retirement has been significant as teams continue to pressure Goff up the middle.
Expect more of the same from other teams who have the personnel to bring it like the Vikes did.

Close game played on the Eagles home field. Making a few of those 4th downs would have been nice. But Eagles said not today.

Jamo continues to be 25% knucklehead.

Knucklehead is really the perfect term. By all accounts he's a sweet, well-meaning guy. Even the PED suspension from last year seems to have been a case of unknowingly taking a banned ingredient rather than actively conspiring to cheat (although of course we never know the details of these suspensions and players can leak whatever they want). The constant pattern is a guy who should know better but just can't help himself from doing dumb s###

Williams is in his 4th season and still a knucklehead. Points were at a premium, if the Lions had managed a late TD, that could of cost the Lions the game.

Player can now dance and do whatever they want, but players know you can`t use the goal posts as a prop, you can`t touch or dunk over the goal posts.

He should be a professional by now, but this is the third time he hasn't bothered to know the rules leading to two suspensions and this penalty. I honestly believe it is only a matter of time before he drops the ball before getting to the end zone or spins the ball after a first down catch before being touched down.

 

[FairWarning]

Bears rest of schedule is brutal. We'll see who they really are. 2x GB, Philly, SF, Pit, Lions. Oh and the browns.

As a Bears fan, hoping for three wins - one of the GB, Cle, and Det since it’s in Chicago. 10 wins puts them in a real good spot for a WC. The last game vs Det outside for a playoff spot is not what Lions fans really want to see.

Det should win four games, that gets them in .

 

[renesauz]

there's a bit to like about the Bears, but they've had a soft schedule about to get a lot harder. You guys are still in great shape to win the division, or at worst finish ahead of the Bears for a WC. Tons of respect for the Lions. Need to figure out how to shore up the middle of that O line though

 

[Payne]

there's a bit to like about the Bears, but they've had a soft schedule about to get a lot harder. You guys are still in great shape to win the division, or at worst finish ahead of the Bears for a WC. Tons of respect for the Lions. Need to figure out how to shore up the middle of that O line though

Not sure they can. The tackles are beat up too and no LaPorta who is a beast at blocking. It's not just the interior line that's a concern.

Dan needs to realize this isn't last year's team. He is going to have to backoff the aggressive playcalling a little. Play more of a field position game at times and let the defense win some games. Let's be honest, the defense has been playing well and will have Davenport, Reed, Arnold and Jospeh back.
The defense is going to be the strength of this team moving forward.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Lions out gained the Eagles but decisively lost the time of possession. Ragnow retirement has been significant as teams continue to pressure Goff up the middle.
Expect more of the same from other teams who have the personnel to bring it like the Vikes did.

Close game played on the Eagles home field. Making a few of those 4th downs would have been nice. But Eagles said not today.

Jamo continues to be 25% knucklehead.

Knucklehead is really the perfect term. By all accounts he's a sweet, well-meaning guy. Even the PED suspension from last year seems to have been a case of unknowingly taking a banned ingredient rather than actively conspiring to cheat (although of course we never know the details of these suspensions and players can leak whatever they want). The constant pattern is a guy who should know better but just can't help himself from doing dumb s###

Williams is in his 4th season and still a knucklehead. Points were at a premium, if the Lions had managed a late TD, that could of cost the Lions the game.

Player can now dance and do whatever they want, but players know you can`t use the goal posts as a prop, you can`t touch or dunk over the goal posts.

He should be a professional by now, but this is the third time he hasn't bothered to know the rules leading to two suspensions and this penalty. I honestly believe it is only a matter of time before he drops the ball before getting to the end zone or spins the ball after a first down catch before being touched down.

I could totally see either of those things happening. And I certainly wasn't defending him. I just meant that none of his screw-ups have involved driving drunk or beating up his girlfriend or getting in a bar fight at 4 a.m., nor have they involved cheap-shotting an opponent or running desultory routes because he's not getting targeted enough. There's just this lack of maturity and poor judgment that keeps coming out. I saw somewhere that he said he usually decides on his celebrations when he's at the 1 yard line. It shows

 

[msudaisy26]

Lions out gained the Eagles but decisively lost the time of possession. Ragnow retirement has been significant as teams continue to pressure Goff up the middle.
Expect more of the same from other teams who have the personnel to bring it like the Vikes did.

Close game played on the Eagles home field. Making a few of those 4th downs would have been nice. But Eagles said not today.

Jamo continues to be 25% knucklehead.

Knucklehead is really the perfect term. By all accounts he's a sweet, well-meaning guy. Even the PED suspension from last year seems to have been a case of unknowingly taking a banned ingredient rather than actively conspiring to cheat (although of course we never know the details of these suspensions and players can leak whatever they want). The constant pattern is a guy who should know better but just can't help himself from doing dumb s###

Williams is in his 4th season and still a knucklehead. Points were at a premium, if the Lions had managed a late TD, that could of cost the Lions the game.

Player can now dance and do whatever they want, but players know you can`t use the goal posts as a prop, you can`t touch or dunk over the goal posts.

He should be a professional by now, but this is the third time he hasn't bothered to know the rules leading to two suspensions and this penalty. I honestly believe it is only a matter of time before he drops the ball before getting to the end zone or spins the ball after a first down catch before being touched down.

I could totally see either of those things happening. And I certainly wasn't defending him. I just meant that none of his screw-ups have involved driving drunk or beating up his girlfriend or getting in a bar fight at 4 a.m., nor have they involved cheap-shotting an opponent or running desultory routes because he's not getting targeted enough. There's just this lack of maturity and poor judgment that keeps coming out. I saw somewhere that he said he usually decides on his celebrations when he's at the 1 yard line. It shows

I agree, his antics are more childish/immature, not criminal, but he is in his 4th year and it is time to stop that.

 

[msudaisy26]

there's a bit to like about the Bears, but they've had a soft schedule about to get a lot harder. You guys are still in great shape to win the division, or at worst finish ahead of the Bears for a WC. Tons of respect for the Lions. Need to figure out how to shore up the middle of that O line though

Not sure they can. The tackles are beat up too and no LaPorta who is a beast at blocking. It's not just the interior line that's a concern.

Dan needs to realize this isn't last year's team. He is going to have to backoff the aggressive playcalling a little. Play more of a field position game at times and let the defense win some games. Let's be honest, the defense has been playing well and will have Davenport, Reed, Arnold and Jospeh back.
The defense is going to be the strength of this team moving forward.

Exactly and Campbell is a good enough coach that he should realize when it will be a low scoring game, or his defense is playing well and you just take the points.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I agree about playing more field position when the other team struggles on offense and your defense is currently ranked in the top 10. I'd just be careful with the "take the points" phrasing. Teams miss fgs all the time, especially outside in windy conditions. They are still just attempts until they are actually made.

 

[Da Guru]

there's a bit to like about the Bears, but they've had a soft schedule about to get a lot harder. You guys are still in great shape to win the division, or at worst finish ahead of the Bears for a WC. Tons of respect for the Lions. Need to figure out how to shore up the middle of that O line though

Not sure they can. The tackles are beat up too and no LaPorta who is a beast at blocking. It's not just the interior line that's a concern.

Dan needs to realize this isn't last year's team. He is going to have to backoff the aggressive playcalling a little. Play more of a field position game at times and let the defense win some games. Let's be honest, the defense has been playing well and will have Davenport, Reed, Arnold and Jospeh back.
The defense is going to be the strength of this team moving forward.

There is a difference to being aggressive and reckless. DC was reckless Sunday but pretty much got away with being 0-5 on 4th down.

After Sunday's game Lions have a 35% success ratio on 4th down conversions. Had the defense bent at all Philly could have easily has 17 more points. The fake punts are probably not going to work anymore as Philly kept their starting defense on the field prepared for it.

At this point in the season the o-line is what it is. That is mediocre at best. Rags and Zeitler were both anchors and are missed. Decker is banged up, Mahogony out, Glasow a subpar center, and a rookie who is learning on the fly. Gibbs is doing it on his own, Monty has not looked the same this season.

There is only one way for the Lions to advance far and that is if Goff is protected, if Goff has to move at all the play is basically doomed.

Also TJ Lang said they need to stop handing the ball off in the shotgun when in short yardage situations as the RB is at a stop 3-4 yards behind the line, with Goff being a zero threat to pull it back and run on the read option the ends and LBs just crash the play.

The defense played so good on Sunday and deserved better.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Lions out gained the Eagles but decisively lost the time of possession. Ragnow retirement has been significant as teams continue to pressure Goff up the middle.
Expect more of the same from other teams who have the personnel to bring it like the Vikes did.

Close game played on the Eagles home field. Making a few of those 4th downs would have been nice. But Eagles said not today.

Jamo continues to be 25% knucklehead.

Knucklehead is really the perfect term. By all accounts he's a sweet, well-meaning guy. Even the PED suspension from last year seems to have been a case of unknowingly taking a banned ingredient rather than actively conspiring to cheat (although of course we never know the details of these suspensions and players can leak whatever they want). The constant pattern is a guy who should know better but just can't help himself from doing dumb s###

Williams is in his 4th season and still a knucklehead. Points were at a premium, if the Lions had managed a late TD, that could of cost the Lions the game.

Player can now dance and do whatever they want, but players know you can`t use the goal posts as a prop, you can`t touch or dunk over the goal posts.

He should be a professional by now, but this is the third time he hasn't bothered to know the rules leading to two suspensions and this penalty. I honestly believe it is only a matter of time before he drops the ball before getting to the end zone or spins the ball after a first down catch before being touched down.

I could totally see either of those things happening. And I certainly wasn't defending him. I just meant that none of his screw-ups have involved driving drunk or beating up his girlfriend or getting in a bar fight at 4 a.m., nor have they involved cheap-shotting an opponent or running desultory routes because he's not getting targeted enough. There's just this lack of maturity and poor judgment that keeps coming out. I saw somewhere that he said he usually decides on his celebrations when he's at the 1 yard line. It shows

I agree, his antics are more childish/immature, not criminal, but he is in his 4th year and it is time to stop that.

I don't know if you can draw a straight line from his knuckleheadedness to his failure so far to hit the ceiling everyone thought he had coming out of college, but it certainly seems to have played a role. Obviously the suspensions each of the past two years didn't help. This year, penalties aside, he's been on pretty good behavior, and his lack of performance in the first half of the season is being blamed on Morton.

ARSB will always be the alpha in that WR room, but there's no reason Jamo can't be the Higgins to Amon-Ra's Chase. I invested heavily in him this year in fantasy under the assumption that he would make the leap, and it could definitely still happen (based on the past few weeks, maybe it's already happening)

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I agree about playing more field position when the other team struggles on offense and your defense is currently ranked in the top 10. I'd just be careful with the "take the points" phrasing. Teams miss fgs all the time, especially outside in windy conditions. They are still just attempts until they are actually made.

Yes, the 4th and goal was the only time Sunday night where I felt the Lions clearly left points on the field. Most of the other attempts were defensible on their own terms, but at some point Campbell should have realized that it wasn't working and either tried something different or else stopped being so aggressive. Also, how do you not notice that Philly has its starting defense on the field and call off the fake punt?

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I know nothing about Meeks so I'm not endorsing this idea, just passing it along

If Sam LaPorta doesn’t come back for the Lions this season, it’s time to move forward with the experiment Detroit is already trying​

The Detroit Lions’ offense struggled against the Philadelphia Eagles on Sunday night, and one of the reasons is that Jared Goff didn’t have his safety valve, Sam LaPorta. All season, we’ve seen Goff go that route any time. Now, LaPorta is out with a back injury, and we don’t know if he will return this season.

Lions head coach Dan Campbell said after Sunday’s loss that the team was hopeful to get LaPorta back this year, but they’re not sure if it’s actually happening. So what does Detroit do at tight end? It has guys who can block in Brock Wright and Ross Dwelley, and we know that. But the Lions need a pass catcher, so it might be time to think outside the box a little.

Jackson Meeks should go full Devin Funchess and be the Lions’ pass-catching tight end down the stretch​

The Lions have this rookie receiver just sitting on the practice squad, and we know what he can do as a pass catcher. He can make things happen, and he’s shown this summer and in college that he is a hard guy to tackle. There is just so much about him that is tight end-like that it makes a lot of sense to see what he can do in that area.

Continue reading

 

[msudaisy26]

Lions out gained the Eagles but decisively lost the time of possession. Ragnow retirement has been significant as teams continue to pressure Goff up the middle.
Expect more of the same from other teams who have the personnel to bring it like the Vikes did.

Close game played on the Eagles home field. Making a few of those 4th downs would have been nice. But Eagles said not today.

Jamo continues to be 25% knucklehead.

Knucklehead is really the perfect term. By all accounts he's a sweet, well-meaning guy. Even the PED suspension from last year seems to have been a case of unknowingly taking a banned ingredient rather than actively conspiring to cheat (although of course we never know the details of these suspensions and players can leak whatever they want). The constant pattern is a guy who should know better but just can't help himself from doing dumb s###

Williams is in his 4th season and still a knucklehead. Points were at a premium, if the Lions had managed a late TD, that could of cost the Lions the game.

Player can now dance and do whatever they want, but players know you can`t use the goal posts as a prop, you can`t touch or dunk over the goal posts.

He should be a professional by now, but this is the third time he hasn't bothered to know the rules leading to two suspensions and this penalty. I honestly believe it is only a matter of time before he drops the ball before getting to the end zone or spins the ball after a first down catch before being touched down.

I could totally see either of those things happening. And I certainly wasn't defending him. I just meant that none of his screw-ups have involved driving drunk or beating up his girlfriend or getting in a bar fight at 4 a.m., nor have they involved cheap-shotting an opponent or running desultory routes because he's not getting targeted enough. There's just this lack of maturity and poor judgment that keeps coming out. I saw somewhere that he said he usually decides on his celebrations when he's at the 1 yard line. It shows

I agree, his antics are more childish/immature, not criminal, but he is in his 4th year and it is time to stop that.

I don't know if you can draw a straight line from his knuckleheadedness to his failure so far to hit the ceiling everyone thought he had coming out of college, but it certainly seems to have played a role. Obviously the suspensions each of the past two years didn't help. This year, penalties aside, he's been on pretty good behavior, and his lack of performance in the first half of the season is being blamed on Morton.

ARSB will always be the alpha in that WR room, but there's no reason Jamo can't be the Higgins to Amon-Ra's Chase. I invested heavily in him this year in fantasy under the assumption that he would make the leap, and it could definitely still happen (based on the past few weeks, maybe it's already happening)

I think there are three things stopping him from being the Higgins. The Lions want to run the ball more than the Bengals, the Lions have more weapons, with Laporta and Gibbs catching more passes than the Bengal counter parts, and the Lions aren't going to always put up the video game type numbers they did last year. Other teams adjust, and things change.

 

[Zeppelin]

Detroit Lions activate LB Malcolm Rodriguez from PUP

In addition to Rodriguez, Lions coach Dan Campbell expressed optimism on Monday that they could get cornerback D.J. Reed back from injured reserve this week, as well.

“D.J. Reed looks pretty positive here, we’re going to get him a week of work here and see where he’s at,” Campbell said Monday.

I was happy to hear the Reed news. The good news is, regardless of whether Reed plays Sunday, it's seems certain that he will play Thanksgiving Day against the Packers.

I haven't heard anything but I have to believe Terrion Arnold will be back as well.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

The Onion always has all the inside scoop...

Detroit Lions Rookie Asks For Thanksgiving Off

DETROIT—Double-checking that he had approval before finalizing travel plans, Detroit Lions rookie Tate Ratledge reportedly approached head coach Dan Campbell on Monday to see if it might be possible for him to take Thanksgiving off. “I know we have a game scheduled, but my family has this big...

theonion.com

My favorite part is the last sentence.

 

[Da Guru]

Watching Goff in the losses and being #27 in third down conversions on the season it seems the Lions are really lacking a solid 3 #WR. Teslaa has been unproductive and must not be showing much in practice as he is not getting the snaps. Raymond has always just been a play or two here and there guy. With LaPorta out for quite some time this is even a bigger issue.

Goff had veterans like Josh Reynolds and then Tim Patrick last season that were safety valves. Patrick caught 33 passes in 43 targets but it seemed many of them were first downs that kept drives going. This year Lions have been bad in third downs so drives are not getting extended.

Maybe Meeks can step up and be that guy.

 

[Payne]

Watching Goff in the losses and being #27 in third down conversions on the season it seems the Lions are really lacking a solid 3 #WR. Teslaa has been unproductive and must not be showing much in practice as he is not getting the snaps. Raymond has always just been a play or two here and there guy. With LaPorta out for quite some time this is even a bigger issue.

Goff had veterans like Josh Reynolds and then Tim Patrick last season that were safety valves. Patrick caught 33 passes in 43 targets but it seemed many of them were first downs that kept drives going. This year Lions have been bad in third downs so drives are not getting extended.

Maybe Meeks can step up and be that guy.

I wasn't a fan of losing Reynolds two years ago or Patrick this past season. Prefer Patrick and the 3rd rounders back over TeSLAA.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Watching Goff in the losses and being #27 in third down conversions on the season it seems the Lions are really lacking a solid 3 #WR. Teslaa has been unproductive and must not be showing much in practice as he is not getting the snaps. Raymond has always just been a play or two here and there guy. With LaPorta out for quite some time this is even a bigger issue.

Goff had veterans like Josh Reynolds and then Tim Patrick last season that were safety valves. Patrick caught 33 passes in 43 targets but it seemed many of them were first downs that kept drives going. This year Lions have been bad in third downs so drives are not getting extended.

Maybe Meeks can step up and be that guy.

I wasn't a fan of losing Reynolds two years ago or Patrick this past season. Prefer Patrick and the 3rd rounders back over TeSLAA.

It was especially weird to trade Patrick away right before the season. We all assumed that was because TeSlaa had shown them something in camp, but they've barely used him. It's not even like they've used Raymond much, either. It's pretty much been all ARSB, Jamo, SLP and Gibbs. Beyond those guys only other players to even catch a pass are Monty (15 receptions), Raymond (13), Wright (11) and TeSlaa (4)

 

[jon_mx]

I'm going to be a realist here. Maybe they just aren't as good as we thought.

They have been exposed against the three best defenses they have played this year. And like msudaisy said, the Giants have a great D line.
This is going to be another test for the o line.

Honestly, no shot at jon_mx here, but Holmes had a huge part in them losing yesterday. We ALL knew the interior of the line needed help.
He did not address it enough in free agency, the draft or the trade deadline.
Not to mention, Phillips had 5 tackles, 1 sack, a TFL and as many hits on Goff as our entire defense had last night.

Dan is also responsible. The defense was playing lights out. It's ok to punt and play the field position game, especially a road game in that environment.
He did not call a good game at all. He admitted after the game he may have cost them. There is aggressive and there is dumb.

The positive? The defense played ridiculous. While it seems obvious the offense misses Johnson, Sheppard has far exceeded my expectations.

The offense let this team down last night.

Its a sour taste when the eagles use a third rounder to upgrade their defense and Holmes frittered away three of them on Teslaa who has not moved the needle for the Lions this year. Teslaa has the tools to be a very good player but he hasn't contributed much except with special teams.
Overall you have to judge by his overall work and Holmes has turned the Lions around.
But we all have things that we need to improve.

This is why people GROSSLY overestimate the value of draft picks. Getting success out of the third round is about a 15-20 percent crapshoot. People look at the last few years and cherrypick the few successes while not noticing the 80 percent deep on the bench or practice squad.

 

[jon_mx]

Oh no the Lions are 6-4 after getting through an extremely difficult schedule. They just played the defending Super Bowl champs on the road and lost by 7 while playing their worst offense game in several seasons and being robbed of a chance to tie. Yes they need some answers on the offensive line and to get healthier there. The Lions defense has looked outstanding, so all the talk about Holmes not getting an edge or a CB was garbage so now it is about how terrible it was the Holmes did not address the OL. Well NOBODY was trading an offensive lineman worth anything. Nobody.

Anybody who does not think this team is capable of winning a Super Bowl is nuts. Their defense looks extremely good and they will get things figured an offense. Now go back to the endless whining about how the best GM the Lions has ever had and one of the best in football really stinks and top it with criticism of Dan Campbell for being too aggressive.

I will get back to enjoying where this organization is, a serious contender for winning a Super Bowl. Something that has never been true before in the Super bowl era.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

As usual in these type of games, I just want a W and no new injuries.

 

[Payne]

Watching Goff in the losses and being #27 in third down conversions on the season it seems the Lions are really lacking a solid 3 #WR. Teslaa has been unproductive and must not be showing much in practice as he is not getting the snaps. Raymond has always just been a play or two here and there guy. With LaPorta out for quite some time this is even a bigger issue.

Goff had veterans like Josh Reynolds and then Tim Patrick last season that were safety valves. Patrick caught 33 passes in 43 targets but it seemed many of them were first downs that kept drives going. This year Lions have been bad in third downs so drives are not getting extended.

Maybe Meeks can step up and be that guy.

I wasn't a fan of losing Reynolds two years ago or Patrick this past season. Prefer Patrick and the 3rd rounders back over TeSLAA.

It was especially weird to trade Patrick away right before the season. We all assumed that was because TeSlaa had shown them something in camp, but they've barely used him. It's not even like they've used Raymond much, either. It's pretty much been all ARSB, Jamo, SLP and Gibbs. Beyond those guys only other players to even catch a pass are Monty (15 receptions), Raymond (13), Wright (11) and TeSlaa (4)

The target tree is definitely smaller this year.

 

[Payne]

Oh no the Lions are 6-4 after getting through an extremely difficult schedule. They just played the defending Super Bowl champs on the road and lost by 7 while playing their worst offense game in several seasons and being robbed of a chance to tie. Yes they need some answers on the offensive line and to get healthier there. The Lions defense has looked outstanding, so all the talk about Holmes not getting an edge or a CB was garbage so now it is about how terrible it was the Holmes did not address the OL. Well NOBODY was trading an offensive lineman worth anything. Nobody.

Anybody who does not think this team is capable of winning a Super Bowl is nuts. Their defense looks extremely good and they will get things figured an offense. Now go back to the endless whining about how the best GM the Lions has ever had and one of the best in football really stinks and top it with criticism of Dan Campbell for being too aggressive.

I will get back to enjoying where this organization is, a serious contender for winning a Super Bowl. Something that has never been true before in the Super bowl era.

The talk about not getting an edge wasn't garbage. Even though the defense has looked great.
And Holmes should be criticized for not addressing the o line more. It's ok to do that.

NOBODY here has said they can't win a Super Bowl. Some of us just wish they would do a little more to accomplish that.
Also, nobody here said Holmes "stinks".

All that being said, the reality is, they are 3rd in their division. If the playoffs started today, they are out.
Still have tough games against the Rams (who very well might be the best team in the NFC), GB (who already beat them), Dallas, Pittsburg, Minnesota (who already beat them) and the division leading Bears on the road in December. That is not a cakewalk. They are going to have to earn it.

Take care.

 

[nysfl2]

Watching Goff in the losses and being #27 in third down conversions on the season it seems the Lions are really lacking a solid 3 #WR. Teslaa has been unproductive and must not be showing much in practice as he is not getting the snaps. Raymond has always just been a play or two here and there guy. With LaPorta out for quite some time this is even a bigger issue.

Goff had veterans like Josh Reynolds and then Tim Patrick last season that were safety valves. Patrick caught 33 passes in 43 targets but it seemed many of them were first downs that kept drives going. This year Lions have been bad in third downs so drives are not getting extended.

Maybe Meeks can step up and be that guy.

I wasn't a fan of losing Reynolds two years ago or Patrick this past season. Prefer Patrick and the 3rd rounders back over TeSLAA.

It was especially weird to trade Patrick away right before the season. We all assumed that was because TeSlaa had shown them something in camp, but they've barely used him. It's not even like they've used Raymond much, either. It's pretty much been all ARSB, Jamo, SLP and Gibbs. Beyond those guys only other players to even catch a pass are Monty (15 receptions), Raymond (13), Wright (11) and TeSlaa (4)

The target tree is definitely smaller this year.

I think part of that is the increased amount of pressure that Goff is getting. Doesn't have as much time to get to his 2nd/3rd reads.

 

[Payne]

As usual in these type of games, I just want a W and no new injuries.

Agree 100%. Especially on a short week with GB coming to town.
Curious to see if GB sits Jacobs this week so he is closer to 100% on Thanksgiving.

 

[Payne]

Watching Goff in the losses and being #27 in third down conversions on the season it seems the Lions are really lacking a solid 3 #WR. Teslaa has been unproductive and must not be showing much in practice as he is not getting the snaps. Raymond has always just been a play or two here and there guy. With LaPorta out for quite some time this is even a bigger issue.

Goff had veterans like Josh Reynolds and then Tim Patrick last season that were safety valves. Patrick caught 33 passes in 43 targets but it seemed many of them were first downs that kept drives going. This year Lions have been bad in third downs so drives are not getting extended.

Maybe Meeks can step up and be that guy.

I wasn't a fan of losing Reynolds two years ago or Patrick this past season. Prefer Patrick and the 3rd rounders back over TeSLAA.

It was especially weird to trade Patrick away right before the season. We all assumed that was because TeSlaa had shown them something in camp, but they've barely used him. It's not even like they've used Raymond much, either. It's pretty much been all ARSB, Jamo, SLP and Gibbs. Beyond those guys only other players to even catch a pass are Monty (15 receptions), Raymond (13), Wright (11) and TeSlaa (4)

The target tree is definitely smaller this year.

I think part of that is the increased amount of pressure that Goff is getting. Doesn't have as much time to get to his 2nd/3rd reads.

Agree. But it seems like three receiver sets were more common in years past. That may also be due to providing more protection for Goff.

The truth is what was THE strength is now a concern. The O line provides Goff time, opens up the running game and play action.
With poor O line play, those things become very difficult.