3rd/4th Grade Football Question (1 Viewer)

[ChiefD]

We're currently having a terrible experience in 6th grade football.  Small'ish private school here.  21 kids total on the team.  We're new at the school and new to football all together.  I went and introduced myself and my son to the coach at the first practice.  Explained to him that we had never played, but my kid is fast and athletic and you'll have to find him a position, etc.  Coach was super nice, explained to me that 6th grade football is fun, they'll find him a position or two, get plenty of reps cause theres only 21 on the team and just try to have fun, etc.  The perfect answer.   

We attended every "optional" practice this summer.  My kid often pulled double duty cause he runs cross country too.   Just could not have done more to prove he wanted to be there.  He's not the fastest, but hes probably in the best shape overall on the team.  

Game one was last week.  He did not play a single down.  He was so pissed, probably as pissed as I was.  There were 4 kids that didn't step foot on the field.  3 kids got all the touches.  We won 27-6.   When the possession would change 2 kids would run off the field for subs.  

That's ridiculous though, right?  I didn't confront the coach, but others clearly did.  We got a long winded message about some kids not being ready, blah blah blah.  

In 6th grade every kid should get a chance to play. Especially in a 27-6 blow out.

I'd be pissed too. 

 

[Chadstroma]

We're currently having a terrible experience in 6th grade football.  Small'ish private school here.  21 kids total on the team.  We're new at the school and new to football all together.  I went and introduced myself and my son to the coach at the first practice.  Explained to him that we had never played, but my kid is fast and athletic and you'll have to find him a position, etc.  Coach was super nice, explained to me that 6th grade football is fun, they'll find him a position or two, get plenty of reps cause theres only 21 on the team and just try to have fun, etc.  The perfect answer.   

We attended every "optional" practice this summer.  My kid often pulled double duty cause he runs cross country too.   Just could not have done more to prove he wanted to be there.  He's not the fastest, but hes probably in the best shape overall on the team.  

Game one was last week.  He did not play a single down.  He was so pissed, probably as pissed as I was.  There were 4 kids that didn't step foot on the field.  3 kids got all the touches.  We won 27-6.   When the possession would change 2 kids would run off the field for subs.  

That's ridiculous though, right?  I didn't confront the coach, but others clearly did.  We got a long winded message about some kids not being ready, blah blah blah.  

I am obviously trying to navigate this all myself with my son in 3rd grade. My nephew is in 8th grade and playing for the first year. This is a small Catholic school, playing in a Catholic school league. I watched not just my son's game but my nephew too. 

For my son... it is pretty different as they are clearly "teaching the game" as the game goes on. The coaches are on the field/huddle, the games are short, and the refs purposely are pretty loose on calling penalties (or else every play would have a flag). The coaches are all fathers. I have been watching and learning. As my first post showed, I was trying to understand why my son who is clearly more athletic and not a mountain of a kid was at Guard. I didn't want to talk to them because I didn't want me asking about it to be like "I don't want him at Guard... put him at QB!" kind of thing. Hence, I came here to get more discussion out of it, which helped. I finally picked up on things... they basically split the team in two based on general size. "Linemen" and "not Linemen". My son, being more muscular versus some of these kids look like bones with skin around around their legs and slightly on the taller side of the team has been on the "lineman" side. He was eventually moved to tackle on offense and then surprisingly to me played some WR in the last game. Played DE and then they had him at OLB in practice a bit too. I think the coaches are doing a good job. They are trying to teach basic things and keep 3rd/4th graders with the attention span of a gnat to understand the simplest concepts while trying to keep it fun for them. As my son is an example, they are moving kids around still trying to find good fits. My son played a decent amount. I am not really watching but I would be willing to bet all the kids got playing time. There is likely just about 30 kids. 

Watching my nephew's game and talking to my sister in law... there is a big difference. They practice more... longer and more days. I know my nephew in his first game played all the snaps at TE and then LB. They moved him to WR this game and it ended up a total blow out. It was 40 something to 6 by the half. He played all snaps at LB. He played all snaps at WR for the first half but did not play on offense at all in the second. They basically brought in the full second team on offense for the second half. If it was a close game, I am sure that would not have happened. There was a kid on the other team that was clearly the best player on the field. He had a few TD's on long runs and was involved on D a lot. My wife actually ended up having a short conversation with a parent from the other school and she mentioned him. They said yea, he is really good, he has a scholarship to X high school. I was surprised to find out that the Catholic schools all have recruiters for sports and she pointed out a couple on the field. It is definitely more about 'winning' and I wouldn't be surprised if some games some of the kids don't get a snap. 

For your situation... I would want to know what it is meant by not being ready. If the end score is 27-6 and assuming there was not a scoring frenzy at the end, I would expect all the kids to get some snaps as the game was ending. At 6th grade they are still learning the game but if the game is already won or lost then the kids that may not be the better ones should get time. 

My daughter is on her 5th grade basketball team with the school. It is her first time playing basketball. Again, the girls are all learning but clearly some are better than others and I would say that my daughter is on the bottom of the talent rankings for now. She still gets time in. Granted, it is a little easier as I think the entire team is 9 girls and there is always one or two not at a game for whatever reasons. I was confused yesterday when the coached had one of the our best players not starting and didn't play her as much. I would have had her in almost the whole game (they lost) but the last thing I am going to do is bring that up. I mean, these coaches are donating their time, so there has to be a certain amount of grace given. On the other side, like in your situation, I think that is worth a conversation. I wouldn't totally expect snaps at every game but if the game is in hand or out of hand, then the coach needs to get players in that haven't played for sure. I would also ask two things... 1) From my son, "do you want this?" and 2) From the coach, "what does he need to do to play" and if my son wanted it and the coach said improve in catching the ball then I would spend time with my son to get him better catching the ball. 

 

[acarey50]

They said yea, he is really good, he has a scholarship to X high school. I was surprised to find out that the Catholic schools all have recruiters for sports and she pointed out a couple on the field. It is definitely more about 'winning' and I wouldn't be surprised if some games some of the kids don't get a snap. 

Regarding this, high school sports are big business - living in Southern California, we have all the big time private schools (Mater Dei, St. John Bosco, Servite, JSerra, OLu, Sierra Canyon), and those are just the tip of the iceberg, competing for the athletes. With television contracts, uniform sponsorships, etc. on the line having the elite teams is big business. Right now 3 of the Trinity League teams (the big private school league in Southern California) are ranked in the top 10 in the nation for football. And it's not just southern California athletes that they are trying to get, they are bringing in out of county and out of state kids as well. I really do wish California and CIF was set up more like Texas where the public and private schools competed separately for playoffs, but, as noted above, seems like way too much money is involved for all those involved for that to be a reality.

I was confused yesterday when the coached had one of the our best players not starting and didn't play her as much. I would have had her in almost the whole game (they lost) but the last thing I am going to do is bring that up.

For this, is it possible it was a discipline matter? We've done that before - for school teams it could be grades or other administrative matter where a kid either doesn't get to start or we will sit them for say the 1st quarter, depending on what it was. For the youth team I coach (and for the school team), we've done similar things for missing practice or being late. It's tough as usually, especially for younger kids, those things are not in their control (it's the parents), but it helps build that level of accountability.

 

[Chadstroma]

Regarding this, high school sports are big business - living in Southern California, we have all the big time private schools (Mater Dei, St. John Bosco, Servite, JSerra, OLu, Sierra Canyon), and those are just the tip of the iceberg, competing for the athletes. With television contracts, uniform sponsorships, etc. on the line having the elite teams is big business. Right now 3 of the Trinity League teams (the big private school league in Southern California) are ranked in the top 10 in the nation for football. And it's not just southern California athletes that they are trying to get, they are bringing in out of county and out of state kids as well. I really do wish California and CIF was set up more like Texas where the public and private schools competed separately for playoffs, but, as noted above, seems like way too much money is involved for all those involved for that to be a reality.

For this, is it possible it was a discipline matter? We've done that before - for school teams it could be grades or other administrative matter where a kid either doesn't get to start or we will sit them for say the 1st quarter, depending on what it was. For the youth team I coach (and for the school team), we've done similar things for missing practice or being late. It's tough as usually, especially for younger kids, those things are not in their control (it's the parents), but it helps build that level of accountability.

Yea, I didn't even think about it but it makes sense for sure. I didn't realize it was such a thing that they had recruiters on staff. 

I am not aware of anything. Tonight's game they both did not start again. They both played. We win easily so my girl got a lot of minutes and managed to get a stat with a rebound as the time expired. 

 

[Andrew74]

Breaking down tape in 3rd grade?

I waited until 5th grade at least  

My son decided to play football for the first time this fall as a 5th grader.  I volunteered to be the asst coach.  It was been a good experience as the parents are well behaved on our team.  Although one guy at times has ragged in his kid at practice.  Sorry guy, your 130lb kid isn’t beating the 80lb speedsters in ladders.  Why are you riding his ### about it?.  

The coaches are pretty good except one.  The league is pretty forward that it’s about teaching fundamentals and having fun.  We are building the playbook off the formations/wording of the high school team.   This one coach is all about winning.  She ignores the rules when she can.  Her offense is basically trick plays (double reverses, reverse passes, etc) even though the league said not to do that as they want the kids to learn the basics of the HS playbook.  It’s kinda sad and I feel bad for the kids who aren’t learning much.  A kid on her team last year didn’t even know how to get in a 3 point stance. 
 

My son scored his first TD yesterday.  Thankfully I got it on video. He is on cloud 9; watched it 30 times I bet.  It was a great weekend. 

 

[Andrew74]

D’oh.  

 

[Chadstroma]

I waited until 5th grade at least  

My son decided to play football for the first time this fall as a 5th grader.  I volunteered to be the asst coach.  It was been a good experience as the parents are well behaved on our team.  Although one guy at times has ragged in his kid at practice.  Sorry guy, your 130lb kid isn’t beating the 80lb speedsters in ladders.  Why are you riding his ### about it?.  

The coaches are pretty good except one.  The league is pretty forward that it’s about teaching fundamentals and having fun.  We are building the playbook off the formations/wording of the high school team.   This one coach is all about winning.  She ignores the rules when she can.  Her offense is basically trick plays (double reverses, reverse passes, etc) even though the league said not to do that as they want the kids to learn the basics of the HS playbook.  It’s kinda sad and I feel bad for the kids who aren’t learning much.  A kid on her team last year didn’t even know how to get in a 3 point stance. 
 

My son scored his first TD yesterday.  Thankfully I got it on video. He is on cloud 9; watched it 30 times I bet.  It was a great weekend. 

I am thinking I will volunteer to do assistant coach next year. 

 

[acarey50]

I am thinking I will volunteer to do assistant coach next year. 

It can definitely be extremely rewarding.

When my oldest (now 16 years old) was in 2nd grade I volunteered to be the assistant coach for his basketball team. Here we are 9 years later and between the 3 boys I have coached more basketball teams than I can remember (and not just with my kids on it, I love coaching basketball and now assist with the high school team and feeder teams), coached more flag football teams than I can remember, had my middle son quickly develop in soccer well past the level where I can do little more than sit back and be amazed at what he does in goal, had all 3 decide baseball was too slow for them and now have the oldest 2 (with the youngest interested) getting into volleyball, which beyond the old bump-set-spike I learned in PE I was clueless about.

My approach has always been that player development came first, and that while we would play to win and be competitive, we wouldn't do anything just to win. For my rec basketball teams, that meant splitting time fairly evenly, even though the rules stated that it was open sub in the 4th quarter, I'd play everyone while many teams would only play their top 5. For 4 years straight when my two oldest kids were in 3rd-4th grade, I finished 3rd place in the playoffs - but I generally get the most positive feedback and most kids requesting to play with me again. For me that was worth it.

Just don't allow it (and I'm not implying you would) to become a way to try relive or recapture any sort of former sports glory - make sure it stays about the kids.

 

[Chadstroma]

It can definitely be extremely rewarding.

When my oldest (now 16 years old) was in 2nd grade I volunteered to be the assistant coach for his basketball team. Here we are 9 years later and between the 3 boys I have coached more basketball teams than I can remember (and not just with my kids on it, I love coaching basketball and now assist with the high school team and feeder teams), coached more flag football teams than I can remember, had my middle son quickly develop in soccer well past the level where I can do little more than sit back and be amazed at what he does in goal, had all 3 decide baseball was too slow for them and now have the oldest 2 (with the youngest interested) getting into volleyball, which beyond the old bump-set-spike I learned in PE I was clueless about.

My approach has always been that player development came first, and that while we would play to win and be competitive, we wouldn't do anything just to win. For my rec basketball teams, that meant splitting time fairly evenly, even though the rules stated that it was open sub in the 4th quarter, I'd play everyone while many teams would only play their top 5. For 4 years straight when my two oldest kids were in 3rd-4th grade, I finished 3rd place in the playoffs - but I generally get the most positive feedback and most kids requesting to play with me again. For me that was worth it.

Just don't allow it (and I'm not implying you would) to become a way to try relive or recapture any sort of former sports glory - make sure it stays about the kids.

No, not really looking to relive anything. I have been enjoying 'coaching' my kids when they actually listen to me for 2 minutes and don't say "I know Dad". 

I am competitive so that would be something I would need to keep at a healthy level. Definitely considering. Apparently I have to not only go through a background check (I thought that was all it was) but also there is a bunch of classes I have to do in order to coach with the school so it is something I need to plan out if I do. 

 

[Chadstroma]

So to wrap this all up and having learned some things after the fact... 

A few things made a lot more sense to me later after getting more info. 

First, the main coaches on the team (I am not sure there was an actual "head coach") were actually volunteers (volunteered?) and then a few fathers were helping. I actually found out that one of them is actually the OC for the local HS. All of his kids are super athletic. His daughter was on my daughters basketball team and was likely the best player of not just their team but of all the teams they played but he didn't have a son on the team. 

The 3rd/4th grade team is how our school does it but apparently is it more of a 'developmental' team and some of the teams pulled from multiple smaller schools and would have kids like in 5th grade too if they were just not on the level for our school's 5th/6th grade team. This actually played a big part on how much time the 3rd graders got as they were very concerned with some teams on having 3rd graders up against some 5th graders. For example, the last game of the season, my son didn't play until the 4th Q (where he had a sack/strip/fumble recovery play and was in the backfield on the other two plays but they ran away from him). I originally thought that was strange since in practice, he continually was getting in the backfield and screwing up the offense "first team" plays with sacks and tackles for loss or pressures. However, I later learned that that team had a number of older kids and they wanted to keep the 3rd graders from getting hurt so they made an agreement with the other team of playing 3rd graders only in the 4th. 

After my sons football and daughters basketball I decided to go through the process to be able to coach teams and I am one of three coaches for my sons basketball team. I am an assistant coach but I am clearly the one that has the most experience in basketball. I have really enjoyed it so far. Like... I am surprised at how much I enjoy it. I plan on doing my sons basketball, daughters basketball and sons football next year (and my youngest when he reaches 3rd grade). 

The 3rd grade sports really are about development and trying to get everyone 'equal' time. That is super hard for football and since I didn't understand it as much a little frustrating as a parent watching my daughters basketball when sometimes the two best players were sitting on the bench (my daughter was NOT one of the better players) at times you would want your best lineup out and other odd decisions I didn't get until I got more info from the AD about coaching 3rd-5th. 6th grade is where it turns into more of try outs, A and B teams, play to win and no expectations of playing time etc. Under that, it is really about development and trying to get the kids to have equal time and enjoy the game.