A question about Drew Stanton (1 Viewer)

[Franchise Playa]

Now I know it may be more common for a QB coach or offensive cord to take a QB in the 4th round, or later and work to refine their mechanics and things in hope they will someday be productive. Is it common to take a QB in the 2nd round and have to pretty much start from scratch with him? I mean isn't the point of drafting someone at any position in the top 3 rounds to bring in a guy that is somewhat advanced and polished? I saw Stanton's pro day clip from Mike Mayock when he got drafted and it was simply awful....I know it was just a pro day tape but good lord that alone would knock most guys down to the 6th round...it was THAT bad.

So is Martz just a bit of a kook in taking a QB that high and having to essentially start over again? I don't get it. I know he has intangibles but so do other QB's and you don't (in my mind) take a QB in the 2nd round you feel the need to re-teach everything to and hope he can cut it. Im not trying to hate but I for the life of me don't understand what Detroit is doing.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

My total guess would be, that they like so many things about him... and they feel that he is very capable of being molded mechanicaly into what they want to see from the finished product. He must have some natural qualities that they didnt think could be taught.

 

[wannabee]

I do think Martz is that big of ego-centric kook. But, he has produced results in the past and made a good choice in Kitna. Here is an odd quote from Mlive.com:

Expectations high for Stanton to learn offensive nuances

Saturday, June 09, 2007By Tom Kowalski

ALLEN PARK -- Detroit Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz said he wants to be patient with rookie quarterback Drew Stanton.

This is Martz's idea of patience: "He's expected to be where (10-year veteran) Jon (Kitna) is mentally -- he has to be.''

OK, Martz doesn't expect Stanton to know everything right now, but the second-round draft pick better be ready by the start of the regular season -- and being a rookie is no excuse.

 

[Dirty Weasel]

...or perhaps Martz thinks Drew can take 70 sacks and still come up throwing?

It certainly doesn't say alot for how DET feels about Orlovsky, given the fact that he's only 23 years old.

 

[Bob Magaw]

yes, his mechanics will need to be torn down & rebuilt...

but he does have other things going for them... he can run... he is big... tough... smart, etc...

we can only assume martz, millen, etc saw something compelling in those other attributes that made them willing to live with the tradeoff in his positives & negatives, such as they are...

some players are close to pro-ready but not receptive to coaching... early reports are he completely embraces the opportunity to work with martz (what QB wouldn't), & everything that entails... martz can be very tough on QBs, & stanton has definitely read to the end of the brochure on this situation...

even high pedigree QBs can take a few years to be ready... guys like mcnabb & mcnair didn't start right away... in a few years, i'm guessing martz can iron out many of the mechanical flaws & get him ready...

the biggest problem is his wrist is locked funny & he throws an ugly ball (jaws humorously but seriously said he had seen every throw at michigan state & he saw very few spirals... i saw none on his highlight reel, which is kind of scary)... billy kilmer threw an ugly ball but was effective... it also helps that when throwing to EITHER roy williams or calvin johnson the effective window for a catch will be anywhere from 1" off the ground to 13' in the air... he could almost heave it up blindfolded and one of them could still come down with the ball...

 

[wannabee]

Video of Martz, Marinelli and Stanton:

Video from end of Lions' OTA

Posted by Bill Emkow June 09, 2007 09:48AM

I'm not sure what Hondo Carpenter, the WLAJ-TV Lansing sports director, did to get around the new NFL rules on extreme limitations on what multimedia you can post on the Internet, but he's got full video from the end of the Detroit Lions' OTA's.

Watch 10 minutes of Mike Martz, 17:21 of Rod Marinelli, and another clipped segment of Martz talking extensively about Drew Stanton -- including decent b-roll footage of Stanton working out and taking snaps. Click here for the videos. Hopefully the NFL and the Lions are changing their opinions on Internet multimedia coverage.

By the way, as an update, I've received a handful of emails from media organization websites around the country that cover a variety of NFL teams. So far, from the six other NFL cities I've heard from, no one else has heard of this policy. I'm guessing it's selective enforcement, based upon the goals the organization has for their website.

http://blog.mlive.com/highlightreel/2007/0..._lions_ota.html

 

[Franchise Playa]

I do think Martz is that big of ego-centric kook. But, he has produced results in the past and made a good choice in Kitna. Here is an odd quote from Mlive.com:Expectations high for Stanton to learn offensive nuances Saturday, June 09, 2007By Tom KowalskiALLEN PARK -- Detroit Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz said he wants to be patient with rookie quarterback Drew Stanton. This is Martz's idea of patience: "He's expected to be where (10-year veteran) Jon (Kitna) is mentally -- he has to be.'' OK, Martz doesn't expect Stanton to know everything right now, but the second-round draft pick better be ready by the start of the regular season -- and being a rookie is no excuse.

I can give Martz credit for Bulger but Kitna was a solid QB before he got to Detroit. It's not like he had to break Kitna down like he is doing with Stanton...But the thing I don't get too is we all know Martz is not going to be there long....then what? New cordinator comes in with a new system then your pet project is going through another change and his mentor is long gone.

 

[wannabee]

I do think Martz is that big of ego-centric kook. But, he has produced results in the past and made a good choice in Kitna. Here is an odd quote from Mlive.com:Expectations high for Stanton to learn offensive nuances Saturday, June 09, 2007By Tom KowalskiALLEN PARK -- Detroit Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz said he wants to be patient with rookie quarterback Drew Stanton. This is Martz's idea of patience: "He's expected to be where (10-year veteran) Jon (Kitna) is mentally -- he has to be.'' OK, Martz doesn't expect Stanton to know everything right now, but the second-round draft pick better be ready by the start of the regular season -- and being a rookie is no excuse.

I can give Martz credit for Bulger but Kitna was a solid QB before he got to Detroit. It's not like he had to break Kitna down like he is doing with Stanton...But the thing I don't get too is we all know Martz is not going to be there long....then what? New cordinator comes in with a new system then your pet project is going through another change and his mentor is long gone.

If I remember correctly, there were other QBs on the free agent market and Martz chose Kitna. Also, he chose (and molded some) Kitna to start over McCown even though McCown had all of the buzz coming from the stretch of games in AZ.

 

[Franchise Playa]

I do think Martz is that big of ego-centric kook. But, he has produced results in the past and made a good choice in Kitna. Here is an odd quote from Mlive.com:Expectations high for Stanton to learn offensive nuances Saturday, June 09, 2007By Tom KowalskiALLEN PARK -- Detroit Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz said he wants to be patient with rookie quarterback Drew Stanton. This is Martz's idea of patience: "He's expected to be where (10-year veteran) Jon (Kitna) is mentally -- he has to be.'' OK, Martz doesn't expect Stanton to know everything right now, but the second-round draft pick better be ready by the start of the regular season -- and being a rookie is no excuse.

I can give Martz credit for Bulger but Kitna was a solid QB before he got to Detroit. It's not like he had to break Kitna down like he is doing with Stanton...But the thing I don't get too is we all know Martz is not going to be there long....then what? New cordinator comes in with a new system then your pet project is going through another change and his mentor is long gone.

If I remember correctly, there were other QBs on the free agent market and Martz chose Kitna. Also, he chose (and molded some) Kitna to start over McCown even though McCown had all of the buzz coming from the stretch of games in AZ.

Yeah I think Josh had trouble learning the scheme and Kitna with more experience picked it up and had a solid season.

 

[Bob Magaw]

i wouldn't necessarily assume martz is going to be handed a HC job in the next year...

how many jobs will be open?

a lot of new jobs have been given out in past two years, but not sure how many are on hot seat in '07... if he was really on the short list of many teams with openings since '06, wouldn't he have gotten a plumb assignment already (in two full hiring cycles)? & if he hasn't, how can we be so sure he will in '08 or '09?

martz is a genius at offense (though some would say his system is flawed, places too much emphasis on pass, is too aggressive, reckless in regard to QB protection & neglects more traditional balanced offense philosophy concerned with rushing, protecting defense & avoiding turnovers), & may be best suited to be OC...

he had some problems his one time in STL, & seemed to run a dysfunctional organization, he doesn't have world class people skills, clashed with his superiors, etc...

there is a lot more to being a leader than Xs & Os...

* it is true that if the lions win the super bowl that could up martz's stock overnight, but that would seem unlikely...

 

[bcr8f]

They liked Stanton because the year before last he was pretty good, had a high completion percentage and was very willing to be coached.

Martz is going over his mechanics and changing how he grips the ball to increase accuracy and adjusting just about everything. He likes his work habits and his humility. If it makes him a better QB why not? He may start next year.

 

[lions327]

Video of Martz, Marinelli and Stanton:

Video from end of Lions' OTA

Posted by Bill Emkow June 09, 2007 09:48AM

I'm not sure what Hondo Carpenter, the WLAJ-TV Lansing sports director, did to get around the new NFL rules on extreme limitations on what multimedia you can post on the Internet, but he's got full video from the end of the Detroit Lions' OTA's.

Watch 10 minutes of Mike Martz, 17:21 of Rod Marinelli, and another clipped segment of Martz talking extensively about Drew Stanton -- including decent b-roll footage of Stanton working out and taking snaps. Click here for the videos. Hopefully the NFL and the Lions are changing their opinions on Internet multimedia coverage.

By the way, as an update, I've received a handful of emails from media organization websites around the country that cover a variety of NFL teams. So far, from the six other NFL cities I've heard from, no one else has heard of this policy. I'm guessing it's selective enforcement, based upon the goals the organization has for their website.

http://blog.mlive.com/highlightreel/2007/0..._lions_ota.html

I highly suggest people watch the Martz videos, linked above. Excellent stuff.

 

[lions327]

i wouldn't necessarily assume martz is going to be handed a HC job in the next year...how many jobs will be open?a lot of new jobs have been given out in past two years, but not sure how many are on hot seat in '07... if he was really on the short list of many teams with openings since '06, wouldn't he have gotten a plumb assignment already (in two full hiring cycles)? & if he hasn't, how can we be so sure he will in '08 or '09? martz is a genius at offense (though some would say his system is flawed, places too much emphasis on pass, is too aggressive, reckless in regard to QB protection & neglects more traditional balanced offense philosophy concerned with rushing, protecting defense & avoiding turnovers), & may be best suited to be OC...he had some problems his one time in STL, & seemed to run a dysfunctional organization, he doesn't have world class people skills, clashed with his superiors, etc...there is a lot more to being a leader than Xs & Os...* it is true that if the lions win the super bowl that could up martz's stock overnight, but that would seem unlikely...

I couldn't agree more...and I know this is the minority view. Everyone knows how great of a coordinator and teacher Martz is. They also know he was not a great head coach. I personally think he will be here through next year, which is the end of his contract. But even if he leaves, the one year Stanton spends with him will be priceless. Martz is known as one of the best offensive minds in the game. But I personally think he is an even better teacher. He helped make Bulger and Warner pro bowl QB's. They don't have near the talent and physical qualities that Stanton does. Stanton is the most physically gifted QB Martz has ever had, and it is almost scary to think of how good he can be once Martz straightens out his mechanics. One thing I love as a Lions fan...and the thing that tells me Martz will be here next year: As a head coach, Martz makes a great offensive coordinator.

 

[redman]

i wouldn't necessarily assume martz is going to be handed a HC job in the next year...

how many jobs will be open?

a lot of new jobs have been given out in past two years, but not sure how many are on hot seat in '07... if he was really on the short list of many teams with openings since '06, wouldn't he have gotten a plumb assignment already (in two full hiring cycles)? & if he hasn't, how can we be so sure he will in '08 or '09?

martz is a genius at offense (though some would say his system is flawed, places too much emphasis on pass, is too aggressive, reckless in regard to QB protection & neglects more traditional balanced offense philosophy concerned with rushing, protecting defense & avoiding turnovers), & may be best suited to be OC...

he had some problems his one time in STL, & seemed to run a dysfunctional organization, he doesn't have world class people skills, clashed with his superiors, etc...

there is a lot more to being a leader than Xs & Os...

* it is true that if the lions win the super bowl that could up martz's stock overnight, but that would seem unlikely...

I couldn't agree more...and I know this is the minority view. Everyone knows how great of a coordinator and teacher Martz is. They also know he was not a great head coach. I personally think he will be here through next year, which is the end of his contract. But even if he leaves, the one year Stanton spends with him will be priceless. Martz is known as one of the best offensive minds in the game. But I personally think he is an even better teacher. He helped make Bulger and Warner pro bowl QB's. They don't have near the talent and physical qualities that Stanton does. Stanton is the most physically gifted QB Martz has ever had, and it is almost scary to think of how good he can be once Martz straightens out his mechanics.

One thing I love as a Lions fan...and the thing that tells me Martz will be here next year: As a head coach, Martz makes a great offensive coordinator.

I see some homer glasses here. You're overestimating the objectivity and freedom from fan criticism that most owners operate with when hiring coaches. I'd direct your attention in that regard to the current cases of Norv Turner and Wade Phillips, both of whom are regarded as top coordinators in their respective disciplines and both of whom were hired by their current teams as head coaches despite multiple prior failures in that regard. Both of those guys are arguably lesser "names" than is Martz.

While I agree that Martz is also more of an egotistical pain in the ### and prima donna and that there's no "guarantee" he'll be hired, OTOH it's ludicrous to tell me that it's unlikely that he'll be rehired.

I drafted Stanton in one of my dynasty leagues primarily because of two reasons: 1) he has a pair of young WR's who figure to be about as dominant as any in the league by the time Stanton gets that starting job; and 2) Martz's offense is very good to QB's. I'm certainly not rooting against Martz staying there, but I have strong doubts about that happening . . . unless he's going to replace Marinelli as head coach.

 

[Domination]

I think that Stanton will be a very good QB in this league. Every year there is a QB or a couple of QBs that have "problems" with their mechanics (Rivers, VY, etc), and the QBs with talent rise above the issues and some of course do not. Stanton was a 1 man show at Mich St, and helped to keep that team looking semi-presentable. He has the build and competitive drive that you like to see in a QB. All the other QBs that were taken after the 1st rd had ???, and I think a year under the mad scientist will have Stanton turning into the next Bulger.

:stepping off soap box:

 

[Mark Wimer]

I also drafted Stanton in my Dynasty league this year to be my (hopefully) future franchise QB. Right now I am waiting on Eli Manning to develop into a consistent producer, and that may go on quite a while (it appears). From what I read in draft guides/learned from Cecil and Sigmund over at NFLDraftguys.com, Stanton has all the qualities that you look for in an NFL starter (good size (over 6' 3"), tough, smart, coachable, strong arm and good accuracy, and decent mobility) - he did have a down year as a senior which dropped him on everyone's boards, but he could very well be a much better NFL prospect than Brady Quinn, IMO.

Here's his stats from his college career .

YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT

2003 2 3 39 66.7 13.00 31 0 0 1 175.87

2004 141 220 1601 64.1 7.28 57 8 6 4 131.76

2005 236 354 3077 66.7 8.69 75 22 12 23 153.41

2006 164 269 1807 61.0 6.72 46 12 10 19 124.68

As you can see, the dropoff from Junior to Senior year was precipitous - but hopefully coach Martz can help him find his top game again.

My .02.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Now I know it may be more common for a QB coach or offensive cord to take a QB in the 4th round, or later and work to refine their mechanics and things in hope they will someday be productive. Is it common to take a QB in the 2nd round and have to pretty much start from scratch with him? I mean isn't the point of drafting someone at any position in the top 3 rounds to bring in a guy that is somewhat advanced and polished? I saw Stanton's pro day clip from Mike Mayock when he got drafted and it was simply awful....I know it was just a pro day tape but good lord that alone would knock most guys down to the 6th round...it was THAT bad.

So is Martz just a bit of a kook in taking a QB that high and having to essentially start over again? I don't get it. I know he has intangibles but so do other QB's and you don't (in my mind) take a QB in the 2nd round you feel the need to re-teach everything to and hope he can cut it. Im not trying to hate but I for the life of me don't understand what Detroit is doing.

no, its about taking someone with talent and potential to be great. Take a look at every other sport...in MLB and NHL, draft picks don't see playing time for years. And the NBA had to put an age rule in because everyone was taking players too young based simply on potential and it was hurting their product. I see no reason why NFL GMs would be any different. There are a ton of athletes out there that are mechanically sound; There aren't a ton with Stanton's talent.

 

[Bojang0301]

I do think Martz is that big of ego-centric kook. But, he has produced results in the past and made a good choice in Kitna. Here is an odd quote from Mlive.com:

Expectations high for Stanton to learn offensive nuances

Saturday, June 09, 2007By Tom Kowalski

ALLEN PARK -- Detroit Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz said he wants to be patient with rookie quarterback Drew Stanton.

This is Martz's idea of patience: "He's expected to be where (10-year veteran) Jon (Kitna) is mentally -- he has to be.''

OK, Martz doesn't expect Stanton to know everything right now, but the second-round draft pick better be ready by the start of the regular season -- and being a rookie is no excuse.

I fixed Martz quote from what the writer decided to add in to make it look like Martz was asking Stanton to have 10 years of knowledge. He is asking Stanton to be mentally prepared to run the offense which is what every backup QB should be asked to do. Martz has torn down Stanton mechanics and changed them. We'll see if Martz sticks but if he does Stanton might have one heck of a future.

 

[bcr8f]

I also drafted Stanton in my Dynasty league this year to be my (hopefully) future franchise QB. Right now I am waiting on Eli Manning to develop into a consistent producer, and that may go on quite a while (it appears). From what I read in draft guides/learned from Cecil and Sigmund over at NFLDraftguys.com, Stanton has all the qualities that you look for in an NFL starter (good size (over 6' 3"), tough, smart, coachable, strong arm and good accuracy, and decent mobility) - he did have a down year as a senior which dropped him on everyone's boards, but he could very well be a much better NFL prospect than Brady Quinn, IMO.

Here's his stats from his college career .

YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT

2003 2 3 39 66.7 13.00 31 0 0 1 175.87

2004 141 220 1601 64.1 7.28 57 8 6 4 131.76

2005 236 354 3077 66.7 8.69 75 22 12 23 153.41

2006 164 269 1807 61.0 6.72 46 12 10 19 124.68

As you can see, the dropoff from Junior to Senior year was precipitous - but hopefully coach Martz can help him find his top game again.

My .02.

Same here. I drafted Russell and Stanton(3rd round) hoping one would pan out because Eli scored 6 points in the Superbowl. I won anytway and tried upgrading my team.

 

[Franchise Playa]

Now I know it may be more common for a QB coach or offensive cord to take a QB in the 4th round, or later and work to refine their mechanics and things in hope they will someday be productive. Is it common to take a QB in the 2nd round and have to pretty much start from scratch with him? I mean isn't the point of drafting someone at any position in the top 3 rounds to bring in a guy that is somewhat advanced and polished? I saw Stanton's pro day clip from Mike Mayock when he got drafted and it was simply awful....I know it was just a pro day tape but good lord that alone would knock most guys down to the 6th round...it was THAT bad.

So is Martz just a bit of a kook in taking a QB that high and having to essentially start over again? I don't get it. I know he has intangibles but so do other QB's and you don't (in my mind) take a QB in the 2nd round you feel the need to re-teach everything to and hope he can cut it. Im not trying to hate but I for the life of me don't understand what Detroit is doing.

no, its about taking someone with talent and potential to be great. Take a look at every other sport...in MLB and NHL, draft picks don't see playing time for years. And the NBA had to put an age rule in because everyone was taking players too young based simply on potential and it was hurting their product. I see no reason why NFL GMs would be any different. There are a ton of athletes out there that are mechanically sound; There aren't a ton with Stanton's talent.

This is the NFL you don't have the luxury of sitting for very long if your a pick at the skill position in the 1st or 2nd round. It's win now and unlike MLB, NHL, NBA there are no full guaranteed contracts in football. You play asap and win asap or you get replaced. Thus you hope to draft a player who can contribute as soon as possible. Where in other sports your pretty much married to the player for the length of that contract since you have guaranteed money invested unlike the NFL in which a portion is guaranteed.But the point I was making is since the NFL of today has little to no patence with the "win now" mentality of sports in general seem to have taking a QB that early and having to do that much work to him mechanically (this isnt a few tweaks they are doing) seems odd. Boom or bust in it's purest definition.... and this is based on a stellar junior year only? It's not like he was lighting it up in college year 1 and 2 and his senior year was bad....Ad that to the pro day fiasco what you are left with is a gutty mobile QB who may or may not be able to throw a catchable ball taken in the 2nd round.

Now mind you im sure several here who drafted him or Detroit homers are high on him but IMO picking him that high makes little sense if your a struggling franchise. It's not like they have the luxury of being that good a team to take a project QB in the 2nd round.

 

[bcr8f]

Fom MLive

Expectations high for Stanton to learn offensive nuances

Saturday, June 09, 2007

By Tom Kowalski

ALLEN PARK -- Detroit Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz said he wants to be patient with rookie quarterback Drew Stanton.

This is Martz's idea of patience: "He's expected to be where (10-year veteran) Jon (Kitna) is mentally -- he has to be.''

OK, Martz doesn't expect Stanton to know everything right now, but the second-round draft pick better be ready by the start of the regular season -- and being a rookie is no excuse.

"We won't change what we do,'' Martz said. "If something, God forbid, ever happened to our quarterbacks (so that Stanton would have to play), that's the way it is. You can't hold this team hostage to that. I think he understands that.''

The Lions held their final off-season Organized Team Activity Friday at Detroit Renaissance High School in front of about 1,000 spectators. Stanton, who has been getting more repetitions with the offense in team drills all week, got his first taste of the blitz drill. As expected, he had some issues.

"He could see how fast things happen and how quickly the ball's got to come out (when Stanton releases it). So now he has a benchmark for the next time we put him in,'' Martz said. "It (a play) looks really easy on the board and you watch how Jon does it with such ease, you think `I can do that.' Well, you can't. You've got to live it.''

One of the things Martz likes most about Stanton and his prospects for future success is that the former Michigan State star has a lot of humility. Martz has changed a great deal of Stanton's mechanics, including his grip and throwing motion. And on the mental side, Martz has given Stanton an avalanche of new offensive material and Stanton hasn't resisted in any way.

"Drew has pressed himself to do this,'' Martz said. "Sometimes you have to motivate these guys because they don't understand that they don't know. Drew knows that he doesn't know -- that's the key with Drew as opposed to other young quarterbacks. Other young quarterbacks don't know that they don't know, so you've got to kind of gut them and press them and knead them and whatever to get them to understand: there's a lot more here that you need to understand to be a good player.

"Drew has a sense of what he doesn't know already and it's pretty remarkable and pretty interesting -- a young man comes in and understands that he's way off, knows what he has to do and he's vigilant in paying attention to everything. He's different than anybody I've ever had in that respect. You don't need to push him.''

While Stanton got some reps as the No. 2 quarterback with the offense this week, he's still No. 3 on the depth chart behind Kitna and backup Dan Orlovsky. Martz believes that's the way it'll remain going into training camp, which begins July 25.

"In fall camp, you can't ask a guy to go out and perform at the same level as the No. 2 when he doesn't have knowledge of everything. You can't ask that,'' Martz said. "When (Stanton) gets to the point where he has full knowledge, there will be some real competition for that No. 2 spot.''

The Lions still have two more weeks of their off-season conditioning program before they get about a month off before the start of training camp. Stanton will spend the next two weeks going over film and learning more about Detroit's protection schemes.

"He's not a guy who drifts, he's very mature. You don't have to worry about that with Drew,'' Martz said. "He's very intense, he's in here earlier than anybody else and he stays after. We have to make sure that when we put him into a situation, he's ready for that situation.''

And Martz expects Stanton to be fully prepared sooner rather than later.