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Aaron Hernandez Kills Himself - And according to the law, is no longer a murderer. (1 Viewer)

Bronco Billy said:
I think you and I differ on whether these actions are meaningless.  Wasn't the person already convicted?  Why should their own action to take their life absolve them of guilt?  Where is the justice in that?  There are consequences to the victims, their families, and financial considerations to say the least - with a lot of potential damage to people who have been already victimized by this person.
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The fact he was granted an appeal indicates that there is still due process to come, so it makes a lot of sense to give the person the benefit of the doubt - that's kind of a founding principle of this country.

Because it's Hernandez who did such despicable things, and because it was suicide it's probably easier to be outraged.  But what if this were a loving father that got railroaded on his conviction?  What if it were Brian Banks, a kid with an NFL future that was convicted on what turned out to be false testimony by the alleged victim?  Or one of the 100's of men in prison based on old DNA techniques that current technology can reject as positive matches now?  What if one of those guys were killed in prison the day before the appeal was to begin?  You don't think it's right to vacate those convictions?  Because all of a sudden we have a brand new set of rules, and in this country one is still innocent until proven guilty.  And when that revision of "proven guilty" was found to be faulty enough as to justify a new trial, I think the answer is very, very clear that it should be vacated.

 
Hankmoody said:
The fact he was granted an appeal indicates that there is still due process to come, so it makes a lot of sense to give the person the benefit of the doubt - that's kind of a founding principle of this country.

Because it's Hernandez who did such despicable things, and because it was suicide it's probably easier to be outraged.  But what if this were a loving father that got railroaded on his conviction?  What if it were Brian Banks, a kid with an NFL future that was convicted on what turned out to be false testimony by the alleged victim?  Or one of the 100's of men in prison based on old DNA techniques that current technology can reject as positive matches now?  What if one of those guys were killed in prison the day before the appeal was to begin?  You don't think it's right to vacate those convictions?  Because all of a sudden we have a brand new set of rules, and in this country one is still innocent until proven guilty.  And when that revision of "proven guilty" was found to be faulty enough as to justify a new trial, I think the answer is very, very clear that it should be vacated.
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Yeah just because someone takes advantage of the law doesn't mean it's a bad law. Means he's a bad person. His estate not off the hook 100% civilly but it really protects a lot of his assets for his family/daughter. 

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
Wake me up when he Pats have paid out any additional money on his contract
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The chances of the Pats having to shell out any more money on this by way of a court order are pretty remote. For starters, the Patriots, Hernandez, and his agents reached a settlement to close out his grievance, which was deemed acceptable by the NFL and the NFLPA. In that regard, Hernandez agreed to settle out of court and the Patriots would not owe him anything.

Even if that were not the case, AH did not sign his contract extension "in good faith" per the terms of the CBA and the language in his contract. He had to attest that there were no known reasons why he would not be able to fulfill the contract (when he had already participated in the double murders that he ultimately got cleared of). On top of that, part of NFL contracts require the player to be fully available to play, and Hernandez has been incarcerated for the last 4 years and is now dead. So he was not available to fulfill his contract. On top of that, there are numerous references in the contract language that indicates that players are responsible for their own conduct and run ins with the law will cause them to have to repay or forfeit bonus and salary money.

IMO, the only way the Patriots would chip in any money is if the options are to settle out of court again rather than spend the money to have the case heard again. So they might make a business decision that paying out some money would cost less than the legal fees to go to court. On the flip side, the Hernandez estate and the attorneys representing him may not want to take on the case, as there may not be any money left to pay them. Also of note is that I have heard via media discussions that the Lloyd family (the family of the first victim) already won their civil case and has rights to monies from the Hernandez estate. In that civil case, they were waiting to determine how much the estate would have available after sale of Hernandez' assets.

From what I have read / heard, it appears very unlikely that a court would award Hernandez' heirs (or victims of the families) anything from the Patriots, as that was already settled several years ago.

 
Under law, me (most of us) and Hernandez have been convicted of the same number of murders. Fair. 

 
How angry can anyone get about this?

Freaking victim's mom didn't care. Killer was caught. Killed himself in cell. 

Justice served. 

 
Dr. Dan said:
Yeah just because someone takes advantage of the law doesn't mean it's a bad law. Means he's a bad person. His estate not off the hook 100% civilly but it really protects a lot of his assets for his family/daughter. 
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I believe the judge erred in throwing out his convictions.  The basis of the precedent is that the deceased did not have the opportunity to complete the appeal process.  I get the rational - if someone dies in a manner other than suicide. However, Hernandez killed himself and made a voluntary decision to forego the appeals along with his life.

The fact that his suicide note stated "You're rich" to his girlfriend tells you that he understood the possible ramifications of his actions.  The judge should have let the convictions stand as true justice and a courtesy to his victims.  The fact that the system is so easily manipulated is sickening.

ETA: I think he is still a murderer; just not a convicted one.

 
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More than a few of the responses in this thread are just outright disheartening.  I find myself more and more losing faith in the people of this country.

 
DropKick said:
I believe the judge erred in throwing out his convictions.  The basis of the precedent is that the deceased did not have the opportunity to complete the appeal process.  I get the rational - if someone dies in a manner other than suicide. However, Hernandez killed himself and made a voluntary decision to forego the appeals along with his life.

The fact that his suicide note stated "You're rich" to his girlfriend tells you that he understood the possible ramifications of his actions.  The judge should have let the convictions stand as true justice and a courtesy to his victims.  The fact that the system is so easily manipulated is sickening.

ETA: I think he is still a murderer; just not a convicted one.
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Yeah I get this. I guess it's a difficult debate to have. I don't know a lot of the details of what the judge did or should have done. Obviously in this case he circumvented the conviction for monetary reasons. Makes me dislike him even more. I just keep reminding myself there's a special eternal place for people like him

 
massraider said:
How angry can anyone get about this?

Freaking victim's mom didn't care. Killer was caught. Killed himself in cell. 

Justice served. 
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Agreed it's over.  If there's any money left floating around hopefully it will go into a trust fund for the little girl and not into the hands of the lawyers.

 
Bronco Billy said:
When did this occur?  You do understand that filing an appeal does not in and of itself incur a new trial, right?
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I thought the appeal had been granted.  That does change things.  Now I'm interested in hearing why this would happen just because the appeal has been filed since it could very well have been denied. 

 
Hankmoody said:
I thought the appeal had been granted.  That does change things.  Now I'm interested in hearing why this would happen just because the appeal has been filed since it could very well have been denied. 
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And it could have been granted too (although it is unlikely). The court does not presume how it might have played out, no matter how obvious it might seem.

 
Bronco Billy said:
Any thoughts on that now?

Nice to see a system that encourages suicide and rewards the act.
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Pretty good economic result for the taxpayers.

Maybe his volitional act could be presumptively viewed as a waiver of his rights to appeal.  The difficulty is most waivers of fundamental constitutional rights have to be taken and vetted by a judge to make sure they are knowingly done and voluntarily waived by a person well informed of the options and in control of their faculties.

In the end I am not going to lose much sleep over a loophole that involves a convicted man taking his own life.

 
Found to have stage 3 CTE which is usually found in those older then 67. Wife is filing lawsuit against NFL and Patriots. 

 
Bojang0301 said:
Found to have stage 3 CTE which is usually found in those older then 67. Wife is filing lawsuit against NFL and Patriots. 
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Do families actually win these lawsuits against the NFL?  A guy with his background was most likely going to continue playing football whether he knew about CTE or not.

 
This is my wife's influence talking, but from an attorney's perspective wouldn't it be difficult to prove this was, in fact, the result of his days in the NFL exclusively? 

Pop Warner? High School? College?? Did he have any concussions during this time? What about his controversial lifestyle with being associated with some bad hombres? Maybe he was hit in the head at some point with them? 

I would see it as hard to win this kind of lawsuit, but since his wife seems like the kind who would look for money I'm not surprised. 

These guys get paid a lot because it's a dangerous sport that makes a lot of money. Let's cut the salaries by 75% and take away all of the dangers (see sarcastiball)... then see the players complain that they aren't making any money. 

 
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Dr. Dan said:
This is my wife's influence talking, but from an attorney's perspective wouldn't it be difficult to prove this was, in fact, the result of his days in the NFL exclusively? 

Pop Warner? High School? College?? Did he have any concussions during this time? What about his controversial lifestyle with being associated with some bad hombres? Maybe he was hit in the head at some point with them? 

I would see it as hard to win this kind of lawsuit, but since his wife seems like the kind who would look for money I'm not surprised. 

These guys get paid a lot because it's a dangerous sport that makes a lot of money. Let's cut the salaries by 75% and take away all of the dangers (see sarcastiball)... then see the players complain that they aren't making any money. 
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Can't kill the league fast enough?

 
Shaun King‏ @ShaunKing 1h1 hour ago

If you don't want to accept what CTE did to Aaron Hernandez & Lawrence Phillips

- just research Junior Seau. You can start & end there.

 
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Could be a sign of childhood abuse.

Could be the result of him banging his head outside of football or outside of the game and practice.  Remember when players would butt heads as a greeting?  Was he a gratuitous headbutter?  Did he get in fights as a child, as a prisoner?  What other activities did he engage in?

 
Bojang0301 said:
Found to have stage 3 CTE which is usually found in those older then 67. Wife is filing lawsuit against NFL and Patriots. 
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She will never win. He was a proven melon-head way before he got to the NFL. She needs to be suing the University of Florida and some high school in Connecticut.  

 
They're also finding CTE in soccer players who head the ball a lot at a young age. There's lots of different factors that could cause it, if it was that advanced it definitely wasn't all from his time in the NFL.

 
steelers1080 said:
They're also finding CTE in soccer players who head the ball a lot at a young age. There's lots of different factors that could cause it, if it was that advanced it definitely wasn't all from his time in the NFL.
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I'm waiting for a study that shows how frequently CTE shows up in violinists, or accountants, or McDonalds managers.

It seems nobody is considering the possibility that CTE afflicts everyday Joes and Janes too, not just bigtime athletes.

 
What about boxers?...Hell Mike Tyson hasn't even killed anybody yet....He has taken more blows to the head and is basically a dumb animal...

 
Shutout said:
She will never win. He was a proven melon-head way before he got to the NFL. She needs to be suing the University of Florida and some high school in Connecticut.  
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My first thought as well, he probably played about as many games for Florida as he did for the Patriots, he was only in the NFL for 3 seasons and missed time during all of them (knee injuries, I don't recall concussions although its not like the Pats are fans of the injury report rules.)

 
This shines a new light on things for me. Say what you will about Hernandez, but the effects of CTE could very well have influenced his actions, including his suicide.

Personally, I have some empathy for him now.

 
Football Jones said:
This shines a new light on things for me. Say what you will about Hernandez, but the effects of CTE could very well have influenced his actions, including his suicide.

Personally, I have some empathy for him now.
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Wasn't he in a gang when he was in college?  

 
Dr. Dan said:
This is my wife's influence talking, but from an attorney's perspective wouldn't it be difficult to prove this was, in fact, the result of his days in the NFL exclusively? 

Pop Warner? High School? College?? Did he have any concussions during this time? What about his controversial lifestyle with being associated with some bad hombres? Maybe he was hit in the head at some point with them? 

I would see it as hard to win this kind of lawsuit, but since his wife seems like the kind who would look for money I'm not surprised. 

These guys get paid a lot because it's a dangerous sport that makes a lot of money. Let's cut the salaries by 75% and take away all of the dangers (see sarcastiball)... then see the players complain that they aren't making any money. 
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It doesn't need to be exclusively from the NFL.  I've done some legal work for drug product liability cases and in those cases you only have to show an increased chance of harm.  

 
Football Jones said:
This shines a new light on things for me. Say what you will about Hernandez, but the effects of CTE could very well have influenced his actions, including his suicide.

Personally, I have some empathy for him now.
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Doubt it.... Murdering, drug addict, gang member with no regard for human life.

As for questioning his brain or general awareness of things around him, he did write "you're rich" on his last note to the GF...  Suggests he was calculating right to the end.

 
DropKick said:
Doubt it.... Murdering, drug addict, gang member with no regard for human life.

As for questioning his brain or general awareness of things around him, he did write "you're rich" on his last note to the GF...  Suggests he was calculating right to the end.
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All well and good but you wouldn't know if CTE impacted his actions.

 
Knowing what we know about advanced CTE & the problems it causes, it's much more likely than not some of Hernandez' actions were affected by the disease. It certainly doesn't excuse everything he's done, but it's safe to say CTE played a part in his downfall at the very least.

 
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