ACL injuries (1 Viewer)

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Paging Dr Bramel to the yellow courtesy phone....

I think the truth is in he middle, though I do believe using 5-10 year old data is flagged due to medical/surgical breakthroughs. there is no denying that was super athlete off today, receiving the best cutting edge/aggressive medical care/rehab are returning exponentially faster than even five years ago.

I also think this is where gut instinct on player passion/dedication come into play. Its like welker /ap/charles who are known for extreme work ethic intensity/dedication are players id be more likely to gamble on than players like wells/Britt/sanchez/Vick 1.x (guys who have innate natural talent and have gotten by more so on talent rather than raging intensity/all consuming dedication to the game)

 

[VaTerp]

I also don't see how people are so keen to compare the recoveries of Charles and ADP. Charles injury occurred in Week 2 (I think?) whereas ADP's was the last week of the regular season.

That gives Charles almost a 4 month head start on ADP. I'd be far more nervous about drafting ADP than Charles (admittedly I traded for Charles during the season last year) although I agree with Cal and Scientist etc. Even if ADP comes back at 85% that's most likely enough to justify his draft position.

Major difference right here that I don't think people are talking enough about in this thread.I agree there are constant advances in the surgery, rehab, etc. that will lead to athletes coming back sooner and sooner from these injuries. But it wasnt long ago that an ACL was considered a 2 year injury before guys return to form.

I think just the fact that we are even talking about ADP suiting up week 1 is remarkable in and of itself. I just wasnt confident enough in him coming back this soon AND being able to perform at an elite level that I was willing to pay the price for him this year. Those who were may be rewarded, especially in the 2nd half of the season but in this case I just need to see it to believe it.

Charles on the other hand had a 4 month head start AND my understanding was that his injury was significantly less severe. And another thing that concerns me with ADP is that as a much bigger guy who cuts just as, if not harder than Charles I worry more about the pressure being put on his knees.

The are both phenomenal athletes and ADP is a freak of nature. If anyone can come back from THAT injury this quickly it would be him. But I just couldnt do it for the price he went for. Charles was one of my targets but he didnt make it back to me in the 2nd in my snake and his price was too high for my liking in auction.

 

[rickyg]

I also don't see how people are so keen to compare the recoveries of Charles and ADP. Charles injury occurred in Week 2 (I think?) whereas ADP's was the last week of the regular season.

That gives Charles almost a 4 month head start on ADP. I'd be far more nervous about drafting ADP than Charles (admittedly I traded for Charles during the season last year) although I agree with Cal and Scientist etc. Even if ADP comes back at 85% that's most likely enough to justify his draft position.

Major difference right here that I don't think people are talking enough about in this thread.I agree there are constant advances in the surgery, rehab, etc. that will lead to athletes coming back sooner and sooner from these injuries. But it wasnt long ago that an ACL was considered a 2 year injury before guys return to form.

I think just the fact that we are even talking about ADP suiting up week 1 is remarkable in and of itself. I just wasnt confident enough in him coming back this soon AND being able to perform at an elite level that I was willing to pay the price for him this year. Those who were may be rewarded, especially in the 2nd half of the season but in this case I just need to see it to believe it.

Charles on the other hand had a 4 month head start AND my understanding was that his injury was significantly less severe. And another thing that concerns me with ADP is that as a much bigger guy who cuts just as, if not harder than Charles I worry more about the pressure being put on his knees.

The are both phenomenal athletes and ADP is a freak of nature. If anyone can come back from THAT injury this quickly it would be him. But I just couldnt do it for the price he went for. Charles was one of my targets but he didnt make it back to me in the 2nd in my snake and his price was too high for my liking in auction.

That's basically my point thank you or saying it more eloquently than I was able too. I'm not saying that ap and Charlie can't come back and be great. I don't have a crystal ball. However, at their ADP you would have to draft them ahead of other explosive studs that are not coming off torn acl's. So too rich for my blood. Ap and Charles would have to fall way further for me to take a shot.

 

[MacAvery]

I also don't see how people are so keen to compare the recoveries of Charles and ADP. Charles injury occurred in Week 2 (I think?) whereas ADP's was the last week of the regular season.

That gives Charles almost a 4 month head start on ADP. I'd be far more nervous about drafting ADP than Charles (admittedly I traded for Charles during the season last year) although I agree with Cal and Scientist etc. Even if ADP comes back at 85% that's most likely enough to justify his draft position.

Major difference right here that I don't think people are talking enough about in this thread.I agree there are constant advances in the surgery, rehab, etc. that will lead to athletes coming back sooner and sooner from these injuries. But it wasnt long ago that an ACL was considered a 2 year injury before guys return to form.

I think just the fact that we are even talking about ADP suiting up week 1 is remarkable in and of itself. I just wasnt confident enough in him coming back this soon AND being able to perform at an elite level that I was willing to pay the price for him this year. Those who were may be rewarded, especially in the 2nd half of the season but in this case I just need to see it to believe it.

Charles on the other hand had a 4 month head start AND my understanding was that his injury was significantly less severe. And another thing that concerns me with ADP is that as a much bigger guy who cuts just as, if not harder than Charles I worry more about the pressure being put on his knees.

The are both phenomenal athletes and ADP is a freak of nature. If anyone can come back from THAT injury this quickly it would be him. But I just couldnt do it for the price he went for. Charles was one of my targets but he didnt make it back to me in the 2nd in my snake and his price was too high for my liking in auction.

After a bit of research I am beginning to believe that this is possibly the advancement that is making all of these remarkable recoveries possible. Again, I'd like to hear Dr. Jene chime in on this but it sounds like the double-bundle ACL reconstruction method is what is making the difference. I think we might start hearing a lot about this new method in the media in the coming months as it is slowly revealed that indeed ADP, Mendy and Charles are truly back in a way never before seen with this devastating injury.

 

[meatwad1]

I also don't see how people are so keen to compare the recoveries of Charles and ADP. Charles injury occurred in Week 2 (I think?) whereas ADP's was the last week of the regular season.

That gives Charles almost a 4 month head start on ADP. I'd be far more nervous about drafting ADP than Charles (admittedly I traded for Charles during the season last year) although I agree with Cal and Scientist etc. Even if ADP comes back at 85% that's most likely enough to justify his draft position.

Major difference right here that I don't think people are talking enough about in this thread.I agree there are constant advances in the surgery, rehab, etc. that will lead to athletes coming back sooner and sooner from these injuries. But it wasnt long ago that an ACL was considered a 2 year injury before guys return to form.

I think just the fact that we are even talking about ADP suiting up week 1 is remarkable in and of itself. I just wasnt confident enough in him coming back this soon AND being able to perform at an elite level that I was willing to pay the price for him this year. Those who were may be rewarded, especially in the 2nd half of the season but in this case I just need to see it to believe it.

Charles on the other hand had a 4 month head start AND my understanding was that his injury was significantly less severe. And another thing that concerns me with ADP is that as a much bigger guy who cuts just as, if not harder than Charles I worry more about the pressure being put on his knees.

The are both phenomenal athletes and ADP is a freak of nature. If anyone can come back from THAT injury this quickly it would be him. But I just couldnt do it for the price he went for. Charles was one of my targets but he didnt make it back to me in the 2nd in my snake and his price was too high for my liking in auction.

That's basically my point thank you or saying it more eloquently than I was able too. I'm not saying that ap and Charlie can't come back and be great. I don't have a crystal ball. However, at their ADP you would have to draft them ahead of other explosive studs that are not coming off torn acl's. So too rich for my blood. Ap and Charles would have to fall way further for me to take a shot.

I agree with you...although AP is falling pretty hard at this point. I got him at 5.14 in a 14 teamer, at that point I pretty much felt that I had to take him. JC is going in the 2nd round and I don't like the Hillis situation as it looks like Hillis is back to normal himself, which limits JC's opportunities.

 

[kinghill]

Charles was injured 9/18/2011

ADP was injured 12/24/2011

I agree that the first year back from ACL injury is scary and odds and history say the RB won't match previous performance.

With that said, I still drafted Charles in my main FF league in the 2nd round. That's just how it goes.

With that said, I don't see anything wrong with where Charles and ADP are ranked. Seems about right. You going to draft a rookie RB ahead of them? Darren Sproles? Maybe Fred Jackson? I rolled the dice with Charles.

Will be an interesting thread to bump later this season.

 

[kutta]

I also don't see how people are so keen to compare the recoveries of Charles and ADP. Charles injury occurred in Week 2 (I think?) whereas ADP's was the last week of the regular season.

That gives Charles almost a 4 month head start on ADP. I'd be far more nervous about drafting ADP than Charles (admittedly I traded for Charles during the season last year) although I agree with Cal and Scientist etc. Even if ADP comes back at 85% that's most likely enough to justify his draft position.

Major difference right here that I don't think people are talking enough about in this thread.I agree there are constant advances in the surgery, rehab, etc. that will lead to athletes coming back sooner and sooner from these injuries. But it wasnt long ago that an ACL was considered a 2 year injury before guys return to form.

I think just the fact that we are even talking about ADP suiting up week 1 is remarkable in and of itself. I just wasnt confident enough in him coming back this soon AND being able to perform at an elite level that I was willing to pay the price for him this year. Those who were may be rewarded, especially in the 2nd half of the season but in this case I just need to see it to believe it.

Charles on the other hand had a 4 month head start AND my understanding was that his injury was significantly less severe. And another thing that concerns me with ADP is that as a much bigger guy who cuts just as, if not harder than Charles I worry more about the pressure being put on his knees.

The are both phenomenal athletes and ADP is a freak of nature. If anyone can come back from THAT injury this quickly it would be him. But I just couldnt do it for the price he went for. Charles was one of my targets but he didnt make it back to me in the 2nd in my snake and his price was too high for my liking in auction.

That's basically my point thank you or saying it more eloquently than I was able too. I'm not saying that ap and Charlie can't come back and be great. I don't have a crystal ball. However, at their ADP you would have to draft them ahead of other explosive studs that are not coming off torn acl's. So too rich for my blood. Ap and Charles would have to fall way further for me to take a shot.

I agree with you...although AP is falling pretty hard at this point. I got him at 5.14 in a 14 teamer, at that point I pretty much felt that I had to take him. JC is going in the 2nd round and I don't like the Hillis situation as it looks like Hillis is back to normal himself, which limits JC's opportunities.

You got AP at 5.14 in a 14 team league? I'm surprised no one jumped on them before then.That's the kind of drop off I was talking about earlier.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I also don't see how people are so keen to compare the recoveries of Charles and ADP. Charles injury occurred in Week 2 (I think?) whereas ADP's was the last week of the regular season.

That gives Charles almost a 4 month head start on ADP. I'd be far more nervous about drafting ADP than Charles (admittedly I traded for Charles during the season last year) although I agree with Cal and Scientist etc. Even if ADP comes back at 85% that's most likely enough to justify his draft position.

Major difference right here that I don't think people are talking enough about in this thread.I agree there are constant advances in the surgery, rehab, etc. that will lead to athletes coming back sooner and sooner from these injuries. But it wasnt long ago that an ACL was considered a 2 year injury before guys return to form.

I think just the fact that we are even talking about ADP suiting up week 1 is remarkable in and of itself. I just wasnt confident enough in him coming back this soon AND being able to perform at an elite level that I was willing to pay the price for him this year. Those who were may be rewarded, especially in the 2nd half of the season but in this case I just need to see it to believe it.

Charles on the other hand had a 4 month head start AND my understanding was that his injury was significantly less severe. And another thing that concerns me with ADP is that as a much bigger guy who cuts just as, if not harder than Charles I worry more about the pressure being put on his knees.

The are both phenomenal athletes and ADP is a freak of nature. If anyone can come back from THAT injury this quickly it would be him. But I just couldnt do it for the price he went for. Charles was one of my targets but he didnt make it back to me in the 2nd in my snake and his price was too high for my liking in auction.

food for thought. from the 2nd opinion piece (with a great bit on AP) i learned something i ddn't know, which could explain how he shaved some time off the 'standard ACL' surgery.

"He chose to have surgery immediately rather than waiting until his torn MCL healed (many orthopedic surgeons recommend otherwise) to start the rehab process as soon as he could."

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I also don't see how people are so keen to compare the recoveries of Charles and ADP. Charles injury occurred in Week 2 (I think?) whereas ADP's was the last week of the regular season.

That gives Charles almost a 4 month head start on ADP. I'd be far more nervous about drafting ADP than Charles (admittedly I traded for Charles during the season last year) although I agree with Cal and Scientist etc. Even if ADP comes back at 85% that's most likely enough to justify his draft position.

Major difference right here that I don't think people are talking enough about in this thread.I agree there are constant advances in the surgery, rehab, etc. that will lead to athletes coming back sooner and sooner from these injuries. But it wasnt long ago that an ACL was considered a 2 year injury before guys return to form.

I think just the fact that we are even talking about ADP suiting up week 1 is remarkable in and of itself. I just wasnt confident enough in him coming back this soon AND being able to perform at an elite level that I was willing to pay the price for him this year. Those who were may be rewarded, especially in the 2nd half of the season but in this case I just need to see it to believe it.

Charles on the other hand had a 4 month head start AND my understanding was that his injury was significantly less severe. And another thing that concerns me with ADP is that as a much bigger guy who cuts just as, if not harder than Charles I worry more about the pressure being put on his knees.

The are both phenomenal athletes and ADP is a freak of nature. If anyone can come back from THAT injury this quickly it would be him. But I just couldnt do it for the price he went for. Charles was one of my targets but he didnt make it back to me in the 2nd in my snake and his price was too high for my liking in auction.

After a bit of research I am beginning to believe that this is possibly the advancement that is making all of these remarkable recoveries possible. Again, I'd like to hear Dr. Jene chime in on this but it sounds like the double-bundle ACL reconstruction method is what is making the difference. I think we might start hearing a lot about this new method in the media in the coming months as it is slowly revealed that indeed ADP, Mendy and Charles are truly back in a way never before seen with this devastating injury.

and people say you cant learn anything in the shark pool...awesome post!

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

more on 2x bundle in this thread

http://www.epicski.com/t/109018/acl-and-mcl-injury-to-have-surgery-or-not

 

[nb009]

What's up with Knowshon Moreno? Nobody mentions him, but it looks like he's recovered pretty quickly from his ACL injury last season. Did he actually TEAR his ACL like the other three guys (AP, Charles, Mendenhall)?

 

[VaTerp]

I also don't see how people are so keen to compare the recoveries of Charles and ADP. Charles injury occurred in Week 2 (I think?) whereas ADP's was the last week of the regular season.

That gives Charles almost a 4 month head start on ADP. I'd be far more nervous about drafting ADP than Charles (admittedly I traded for Charles during the season last year) although I agree with Cal and Scientist etc. Even if ADP comes back at 85% that's most likely enough to justify his draft position.

Major difference right here that I don't think people are talking enough about in this thread.I agree there are constant advances in the surgery, rehab, etc. that will lead to athletes coming back sooner and sooner from these injuries. But it wasnt long ago that an ACL was considered a 2 year injury before guys return to form.

I think just the fact that we are even talking about ADP suiting up week 1 is remarkable in and of itself. I just wasnt confident enough in him coming back this soon AND being able to perform at an elite level that I was willing to pay the price for him this year. Those who were may be rewarded, especially in the 2nd half of the season but in this case I just need to see it to believe it.

Charles on the other hand had a 4 month head start AND my understanding was that his injury was significantly less severe. And another thing that concerns me with ADP is that as a much bigger guy who cuts just as, if not harder than Charles I worry more about the pressure being put on his knees.

The are both phenomenal athletes and ADP is a freak of nature. If anyone can come back from THAT injury this quickly it would be him. But I just couldnt do it for the price he went for. Charles was one of my targets but he didnt make it back to me in the 2nd in my snake and his price was too high for my liking in auction.

After a bit of research I am beginning to believe that this is possibly the advancement that is making all of these remarkable recoveries possible. Again, I'd like to hear Dr. Jene chime in on this but it sounds like the double-bundle ACL reconstruction method is what is making the difference. I think we might start hearing a lot about this new method in the media in the coming months as it is slowly revealed that indeed ADP, Mendy and Charles are truly back in a way never before seen with this devastating injury.

and people say you cant learn anything in the shark pool...awesome post!

Agreed. Very good info. Thanks

What's up with Knowshon Moreno? Nobody mentions him, but it looks like he's recovered pretty quickly from his ACL injury last season. Did he actually TEAR his ACL like the other three guys (AP, Charles, Mendenhall)?

Moreno is rarely mentioned because prior to this week there was speculation he might not even make the team. I didnt like Moreno before the knee injury so he was no where on my radar. But given him moving up to #2 on the depth chart he is certainly worth monitoring if he is on your ww or stashed on someone's bench. And certainly relevant to the convo.This is an interesting topic. I shied away from ADP b/c of his asking price and the lateness/severity of his injury. And overlooked Mendenhall b/c of the timing of his knee as well. I do like Charles this year and am invested in Britt in two leagues.

Very relevant thread and it will be interesting to see what happens going forward this year.

 

[kutta]

I just thought I'd pop back into my wonderful thread here and eat a little crow.

These guys are looking pretty darn good today.

 

[Ahmad Rashad]

I just thought I'd pop back into my wonderful thread here and eat a little crow.These guys are looking pretty darn good today.

Yes, and even though their drop in drafts was "only one round," it was enough of a drop that I was able to get both AD and Charles in my auction draft for less than AD cost alone the last few years. Since it's a keeper league, I got them also for their upside the next couple of years, but their strong performances so soon is a welcome sight.Dropping just one round at the top of the draft is much more significant than dropping one round or even two or three later in the draft, and it looks like that may have been enough discount for these guys to be good values where they were drafted. We'll see if they can continue to produce and stay healthy.Since I have these 2 guys and Kenny Britt on my team, I considered changing the team name to "ACL Rehab." Hopefully, Britt can look as good as these guys when he's back...

 

[tombonneau]

I just thought I'd pop back into my wonderful thread here and eat a little crow.These guys are looking pretty darn good today.

Very big of you. Just did a search to bump it myself. While I was fine with taking Charles bc I saw him play and he looked like his old self, I was circumspect when it came to ADP but man that guy is a freak.

 

[rickyg]

Congrats to all who took the risk on Charles and ap. hope it keeps up this way for them both. 2 great players making impressive returns from devastating injuries.

 

[kutta]

I actually own AP in my dynasty league and was figuring he'd ride the pine most of the year. I'm very happy to see him come back like this.

 

[kutta]

Well, week 2 is a bit of a different story. 6 rushes for 3 yards for Charles. Oof. 16 for 60 for ADP ain't going to win too many FF games.

Should be interesting to see how this plays out the entire year.

 

[tombonneau]

Bump.

A reminder we can officially put to bed the Year After ACL label.

 

[Nucker101]

Bump. A reminder we can officially put to bed the Year After ACL label.

And a reminder to never doubt a freak of nature like AP.

 

[CalBear]

Bump. A reminder we can officially put to bed the Year After ACL label.

And a reminder to never doubt a freak of nature like AP.

More than that, it's a caution about fallacies related to comparing individuals to statistical populations.

 

[kutta]

I was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay wrong on ADP.

But Jamaal Charles sure didn't help the cause today...

 

[GroveDiesel]

Bump. A reminder we can officially put to bed the Year After ACL label.

And a reminder to never doubt a freak of nature like AP.

Or maybe it's reason to suspect PEDs...