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AL Cy Young : C.C. Sabathia (1 Viewer)

posty

Footballguy
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...sp&c_id=mlb

Just when you thought the Yankees and the Red Sox had exhausted all possible manifestation of their intense rivalry ... there went the ballots for the American League Cy Young Award.

Unfortunately for the Bombers, the ballot race is likely to have turned out as sour for them as the division race did. John Beckett left Chien-Ming Wang in the dust, instead battling Cleveland's C.C. Sabathia to the wire.

The two AL East kingpins have suited up their fair share of pitchers on the receiving end of their art's highest award, with Pedro Martinez (1999 and 2000) and Roger Clemens (2001) keeping the honor in the I-95 corridor.

But Yankees and Red Sox pitchers have never contested for the same Cy Young Award and haven't finished in the top two in the vote since the award's inception in 1956.

This shaped up as the first time, because Beckett and Wang were the respective leaders of their postseason-bound staffs, on target to receive ample support among the voting members of the Baseball Writers Association of America. Their season-long excellence on the road to 20 wins -- a destination only Beckett reached -- figured to be hard to ignore.

Then another undisputed staff ace, the Indians' C.C. Sabathia, drove a wedge into that battle, emerging by the end of the season as Beckett's main challenger.

Right-handers John Lackey and Kelvim Escobar, virtually peers in the Angels rotation, figure to cancel each other out in the voting booth.

As for relievers, they are simply not invited to this party. The last closer to earn this award in the AL, even as saves totals keep skyrocketing, was Dennis Eckersley, back in 1992. The highest ranking closer in the vote last year -- even after a season without a 20-game winner -- was Francisco Rodriguez, whose 47 saves were worth five ballot points, out of a possible 140.

Maybe it is time closers had their own comparable award. The potential inspiration for that is still among us -- San Diego's Trevor Hoffman, who with 524 saves has already surpassed the 511 wins by the pitcher whose name is on the Cy Young Award.

The AL Cy Young Award winner will be announced on Nov. 13.

THE FAVORITES:

Josh Beckett, Red Sox: Despite a fresh face (Daisuke Matsuzaka) and a cured arm (Curt Schilling), the cognoscenti tabbed Beckett as the key man on Boston's staff -- and he has delivered splendidly, also delivering on his potential. For the fourth consecutive season, he has raised his victory total and has become a smart pitcher -- not just a hotheaded hurler. Leading evidence of that is the drastic reduction in both walks (74 to 40) and home run yields (36 to 17).

C.C. Sabathia, Indians: He missed becoming Cleveland's first 20-game winner since Gaylord Perry (1974), but the big left-hander had already built a strong case for himself. He is certainly worthy, with an amazing strikeouts-to-walks ratio (209-37) for a tall lefty -- historically the mold for wildness. He posted career-highs in innings and strikeouts, while setting a single-season high with 19 wins. Nine of his wins followed Tribe losses.

Chien-Ming Wang, Yankees: If Cy Young balloting were like some cell phone plans, Wang would be an even stronger candidate thanks to rollover votes. He didn't receive a single first-place vote last year, even though he matched the winner's (Johan Santana) 19-6 record. So he then produced a carbon copy, for a two-year record of 38-13 (Santana is 34-19, Justin Verlander 35-15, Roy Halladay 32-12). But what makes Wang truly stand out is his responsibility for the Yankees' contention, through his remarkable consistency. He failed to go at least six innings only three times in 30 starts.

John Lackey, Angels: A rocky four-start stretch beginning in mid-August probably ejected the right-hander from possibly even the favorite's seat. He surrendered 26 hits and 13 runs in 17 2/3 innings around his clutch Aug. 27 shutout in Seattle. But remember that word "clutch," as well as "workhorse;" he went seven-plus innings in 18 of his last 28 starts. And his amazing 12-1 record against the other AL West teams is one of the main reasons that the Angels pulled away from the division.

THE WORTHY FIELD:

Fausto Carmona, Indians

Kelvim Escobar, Angels

Erik Bedard, Orioles

J.J. Putz, Mariners

Joe Borowski, Indians

Jonathan Papelbon, Red Sox

 
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' said:
THE WORTHY FIELD:

Fausto Carmona, Indians

Kelvim Escobar, Angels

Erik Bedard, Orioles

J.J. Putz, Mariners

Joe Borowski, Indians

Jonathan Papelbon, Red Sox
lol
 
' said:
THE WORTHY FIELD:

Fausto Carmona, Indians

Kelvim Escobar, Angels

Erik Bedard, Orioles

J.J. Putz, Mariners

Joe Borowski, Indians

Jonathan Papelbon, Red Sox
lol
Seriously, who writes this stuff.They have Wang as one of the favorites? And Carmona only a "worthy" candidate?

Sabathia should win this by the way. Those 40 extra innings and better K/BB numbers, as well as much worse run support sway my vote towards him.

 
:hifive:
SABATHIA TRIBE’S 1ST ‘CY’ WINNER IN 35 YEARSC.C. Sabathia of the Cleveland Indians was elected the American League Cy Young Award winner in balloting by the BBWAA. It marked only the second time in the 52-season history of the voting that a Cleveland pitcher was honored. The other was Gaylord Perry in 1972. Perry won a second Cy Young Award, in the National League, with the San Diego Padres in 1978.Sabathia was listed first on 19 of 28 ballots cast by two writers in each league city and second on eight to total 119 points, based on the 5-3-1 tabulation system. The lefthander, 27, who had a 19-7 record with a 3.21 ERA, led the AL in innings (241), was second in complete games (4), tied for second in victories and fifth in ERA and strikeouts (209) for the AL Central champion Indians.Boston Red Sox righthander Jose Beckett (20-7, 3.27 ERA) was listed first on eight ballots, second on 14 and third on four to finish with the runner-up total of 86 points. Beckett had the AL’s highest victory total and ranked sixth in ERA and seventh in strikeouts (194) for the AL East champion Red Sox, who went on to win the World Series. Voting is conducted based solely on regular-season play.The other first-place vote went to Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim righthander John Lackey (19-9, 3.01 ERA), who finished third overall with 36 points. Lackey led the league in ERA, was tied for the lead in shutouts (2), tied for second in victories and fifth in innings (224). Five other pitchers received votes.The vote:Player Club 1st 2nd 3rd Points C.C. Sabathia Cleveland Indians 19 8 — 119 Josh Beckett Boston Red Sox 8 14 4 86 John Lackey Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim 1 5 16 36 Fausto Carmona Cleveland Indians — 1 4 7 Eric Bedard Baltimore Orioles — — 1 1 Roy Halladay Toronto Blue Jays — — 1 1 Johan Santana Minnesota Twins — — 1 1 Justin Verlander Detroit Tigers — — 1 1
 
CLEVELAND -- The Cy Young questions sprang up midseason, as C.C. Sabathia consistently put together dominant performances for an Indians team in contention for a division title.

As those questions arose from reporters after each win, Sabathia shrugged them off. It was the team's success, not the individual glory, that he sought.

But individual glory caught up with the Indians' ace left-hander on Tuesday.

In voting conducted by members of the Baseball Writers Association of America, Sabathia beat Boston's Josh Beckett for his first American League Cy Young Award. He is only the second pitcher in Indians history to win the award -- the first being Gaylord Perry, who won it in 1972.

The 27-year-old Sabathia was rewarded for a regular season that saw him go 19-7 with a 3.21 ERA in 34 starts. The win total, ERA mark and number of starts were all career bests for Sabathia, as were his strikeout total of 209 and his innings total of 241, which led the Majors.

Sabathia, who twice faced Beckett head-to-head in the AL Championship Series and lost each time, bested Beckett in the Cy Young voting in large part because of that innings mark.

Though Beckett certainly had award-worthy credentials with a 20-7 record and 3.27 ERA in 30 starts for the AL East champion Red Sox, he was 40 1/3 innings shy of Sabathia's tally.

Furthermore, Sabathia didn't have the run support that Beckett had. While the Red Sox put together an average of 6.4 runs in Beckett's starts, the Indians afforded Sabathia an average of 5.1.

Had Sabathia's run support been stronger, he no doubt would have become the first Indians pitcher since Perry to win 20 games in a single season. Alas, Sabathia had nine starts in which he received a loss or no-decision while pitching five or more innings and giving up two earned runs or less.

Though that 20th victory eluded him, Sabathia polished his Cy Young credentials in other ways. He ranked second in the AL in complete games (four), fifth in strikeouts, tied for third in winning percentage (.731) and finished sixth in walks and hits per inning pitched (1.14). Toss in his second-place finish in the win column, and Sabathia was the only AL pitcher to rank in the top six in each of those categories.

"It feels good to have a consistent year all the way through," Sabathia said shortly after the season ended. "It was nice to stay healthy and be consistent and pitch well and be the guy I need to be in this clubhouse."

The Indians, who will try to negotiate a contract extension with Sabathia this winter, asked him to be that guy not long after his rookie season of 2001, when he won 17 games. But his temper and his reliance mainly on his upper-90s fastball prevented him from being the type of pure pitcher needed to anchor a rotation.

Until midseason 2005, that is. That's when Sabathia refocused his energy into throwing the opposition more breaking balls early in the count and began keeping his emotions in check.

He's been dominant ever since. From Aug. 1, 2005, through the end of the '07 regular season, Sabathia went 40-19 with a 3.06 ERA.

"I think he really feels confidence in all his pitches at any time," Tribe pitching coach Carl Willis said recently. "C.C.'s been here a long time, but still, at 27, to have that type of confidence in all your pitches is tremendous."

Unfortunately for the Indians, Sabathia couldn't keep up that dominance in October, as he went 1-2 with an 8.80 ERA in three starts against the Yankees and Red Sox.

When the Indians were ousted in the ALCS, Sabathia said the blame fell squarely on his shoulders, even though fellow 19-game winner Fausto Carmona had also struggled.

That attitude was consistent with the leadership mentality Sabathia took on for the Indians this season.

"You couldn't tell a difference when he walked out of the locker room, if he had won 1-0 or lost 1-0," manager Eric Wedge said recently. "That's leadership, and that's presence. His teammates saw that."

And now they're seeing Sabathia elevated to a new level of personal glory.

 
Awesome. Congrats to CC and the Tribe!

That run of starts he had where he was getting losses and no decisions, mixed in with a win maybe, was pretty sick. He should have won more games, not his fault though.

 
Should be Beckett hands down
Hands down? Sabathia had a better ERA, more strikeouts, pitched more innings, and issued fewer walks (despite the many more innings). If you think Beckett should have won, that is fine, but to say either should have been a hands down winner is just plain wrong. Remember, what happened in the playoffs DOES NOT MATTER.
 
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Should be Beckett hands down
Hands down? Sabathia had a better ERA, more strikeouts, pitched more innings, and issued fewer walks (despite the many more innings). If you think Beckett should have won, that is fine, but to say either should have been a hands down winner is just plain wrong. Remember, what happened in the playoffs DOES NOT MATTER.
:shrug: Sabathia won already. That should've ended any debate you wanted to start with my prediction.
 
Congrats to CC. He clearly deserved the award and is a far superior pitcher to the journeyman, Beckett :popcorn:

 
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Beckett had more run support (6.59 v. 5.64) but gave up fewer dingers (17 v. 20), it was a toss up, but CC's extra IP's amounted to 20% of Beckett's and his 4 CG's to Beckett's 1 CG was a standout as well so it made sense to award it to CC, congrats.

 
BBTangent down? :goodposting:
gravity-interactive.com down? :lmao: :lmao: Actually, it's not. Just the same site from 5 years ago.
Gravity Interactive is an award-winning Memphis-based web design and print design firm. Some of our services include HTML web design, flash web design, online advertisement design (including traditional banner ads as well as interactive flash advertisements), search engine optimization, and targeted email marketing. In addition, our print-based services include business card design, ad concept and layout, corporate identity and logo design. Please follow the directions above to visit our site and contact us to see how we can help satisfy your digital marketing needs.
:lmao:
 
Sabathia deserved it hands down. Beckett had a soft schedule.
For the record, this is wrong...if you look at the OPS of batters faced, Beckett faced much stronger competition.In the end the extra innings got the award for CC, and it is deserved I think. Having an additional 40 innings at that ERA is nothing to scoff at. Lackey should have had a few more votes then he received IMO, also
 
BBTangent down? :lmao:
gravity-interactive.com down? :popcorn: :lmao: Actually, it's not. Just the same site from 5 years ago.
Gravity Interactive is an award-winning Memphis-based web design and print design firm. Some of our services include HTML web design, flash web design, online advertisement design (including traditional banner ads as well as interactive flash advertisements), search engine optimization, and targeted email marketing. In addition, our print-based services include business card design, ad concept and layout, corporate identity and logo design. Please follow the directions above to visit our site and contact us to see how we can help satisfy your digital marketing needs.
:lmao:
:mellow: That site was never intended to be more than a side business from day one.... one that still pays quite well I might add... 5-figures in post-tax freelance "Spare time" money in Q4 alone this year. Not bad for a crappy little site I've not had to touch in 5 years :lmao:
 
BBTangent down? :stalker:
gravity-interactive.com down? :lmao: :lmao: Actually, it's not. Just the same site from 5 years ago.
Gravity Interactive is an award-winning Memphis-based web design and print design firm. Some of our services include HTML web design, flash web design, online advertisement design (including traditional banner ads as well as interactive flash advertisements), search engine optimization, and targeted email marketing. In addition, our print-based services include business card design, ad concept and layout, corporate identity and logo design. Please follow the directions above to visit our site and contact us to see how we can help satisfy your digital marketing needs.
:lmao:
:popcorn: That site was never intended to be more than a side business from day one.... one that still pays quite well I might add... 5-figures in post-tax freelance "Spare time" money in Q4 alone this year. Not bad for a crappy little site I've not had to touch in 5 years :lmao:
Sure. :lmao: Last time Pickles mentioned it to you, your response was something like "that site's still up?" Nice spin though.
 
Believe whatcha want Cappy.... Cunk (Rich) will confirm. I flew him up to Manhattan for 2 days to shoot most of the video for the DVDs :thumbup:

 
Far be it from me, of all people, to argue that stats don't matter, but in this case I think that that is partly true.

In watching most of Beckett's starts, he did have games where the Sox jumped out to big leads. In those situations, his job was to throw strikes and let the other team hit the ball. If he gave up a few runs it didn't matter. He's showed over the years that in close games or high profile games he can pitch as well as anyone.

IMO, the fact that he may have grooved a few pitches and allowed a few extra runs (especially HR) in games that were already out of reach dramatically HURT his Cy Young chances. He probably allowed 10 runs that really didn't matter in games that were all ready decided and was basically just chewing up innings to save the bullpen.

I know you can't not count those runs, but had he been going "all out" in those situations and been much more concerned about allowing any runs or hits, his ERA would have been in the 2.80 range. So while he was able to get a few easy victories, IMO that may have hurt his other peripheral numbers because he really didn't need to make every pitch count and he pitched differently with big leads.

And I'm not dissing C.C., just pointing out that their situations were not the same and IMO Beckett's numbers could have been better if the Sox needed him to go all out every inning.

 
Far be it from me, of all people, to argue that stats don't matter, but in this case I think that that is partly true.In watching most of Beckett's starts, he did have games where the Sox jumped out to big leads. In those situations, his job was to throw strikes and let the other team hit the ball. If he gave up a few runs it didn't matter. He's showed over the years that in close games or high profile games he can pitch as well as anyone.IMO, the fact that he may have grooved a few pitches and allowed a few extra runs (especially HR) in games that were already out of reach dramatically HURT his Cy Young chances. He probably allowed 10 runs that really didn't matter in games that were all ready decided and was basically just chewing up innings to save the bullpen. I know you can't not count those runs, but had he been going "all out" in those situations and been much more concerned about allowing any runs or hits, his ERA would have been in the 2.80 range. So while he was able to get a few easy victories, IMO that may have hurt his other peripheral numbers because he really didn't need to make every pitch count and he pitched differently with big leads.And I'm not dissing C.C., just pointing out that their situations were not the same and IMO Beckett's numbers could have been better if the Sox needed him to go all out every inning.
if we are playing woulda coulda shoulda,.... what if C.C. had gotten any run support during that 4 game stretch where he was allowing about a run per 9 innings and getting the loss?
 
Peter Gammons said the right man won the award. That's good enough for me. Congrats, CC!
Ring is next on C.C.'s list

Tuesday, November 13, 2007

Peter Gammons, ESPN.com

While C. C. Sabathia earned the Cy Young, Josh Beckett earned his place alongside Johan Santana as the best pitcher in baseball.

One of the reasons Beckett was good and reliable and fresh in October -- taking the role of a No. 1 starter, carrying his team through three straight series and winning a world championship for the second time in five years -- is because he didn't have to do what Sabathia did in the regular season. And the award is based solely on the regular season.

Sabathia threw 40 more innings, faced 143 more batters and threw 478 more pitches than Beckett. He picked up the slack with Jake Westbrook disabled, and Cliff Lee and Jeremy Sowers back in Buffalo, and deserves top 10 MVP votes for getting the Indians to a tie with the Red Sox for best record in baseball. But all those innings, batters and pitches showed in October. Velocity is never an indicator of wear or injury -- command is. And the man with the 5.24 to 1 strikeout to walk ratio was clearly gassed trying to deal with the hitting approach of Boston's hitters.

Beckett won one more game (20-19), but C.C. had the better ERA (3.21 to 3.27), threw more innings, had more quality starts (25-20), had the higher quality-start percentage (74 percent-67 percent) and had 1.05 runs per start less support. But as C.C. will tell you, he'll gladly trade the award next year for what Beckett has won twice this century -- a World Series ring.

The Red Sox are already looking at 2008 in terms of needing seven starting pitchers over the seven-month season (including October), but the Indians should be much deeper, too. They have Fausto Carmona, Westbrook, Paul Byrd, the impressive Aaron Laffey, Lee and Sowers (who was second in the AL in ERA in the second half of 2006), giving Eric Wedge the flexibility to trim the innings for Carmona and Sabathia.

Sabathia has worked diligently to earn this Cy Young, and a rare place in the game's hierarchy. He paid for that diligence and durability in October, and now has something else to shoot for -- Beckett's crown as the premier money pitcher in the sport. The Red Sox's ace is a 6-0, 1.73 ERA in 10 career playoff appearances (72 2/3 IP), and only Curt Schilling has more World Series rings in the 21st century. Between them, Schilling and Beckett are 16-1 in the postseason this decade, and their teams have won nine of the ten series in which they've pitched.
 
s_ezy said:
David Yudkin said:
Far be it from me, of all people, to argue that stats don't matter, but in this case I think that that is partly true.In watching most of Beckett's starts, he did have games where the Sox jumped out to big leads. In those situations, his job was to throw strikes and let the other team hit the ball. If he gave up a few runs it didn't matter. He's showed over the years that in close games or high profile games he can pitch as well as anyone.IMO, the fact that he may have grooved a few pitches and allowed a few extra runs (especially HR) in games that were already out of reach dramatically HURT his Cy Young chances. He probably allowed 10 runs that really didn't matter in games that were all ready decided and was basically just chewing up innings to save the bullpen. I know you can't not count those runs, but had he been going "all out" in those situations and been much more concerned about allowing any runs or hits, his ERA would have been in the 2.80 range. So while he was able to get a few easy victories, IMO that may have hurt his other peripheral numbers because he really didn't need to make every pitch count and he pitched differently with big leads.And I'm not dissing C.C., just pointing out that their situations were not the same and IMO Beckett's numbers could have been better if the Sox needed him to go all out every inning.
if we are playing woulda coulda shoulda,.... what if C.C. had gotten any run support during that 4 game stretch where he was allowing about a run per 9 innings and getting the loss?
Again, this trumps everything.
 
s_ezy said:
if we are playing woulda coulda shoulda,.... what if C.C. had gotten any run support during that 4 game stretch where he was allowing about a run per 9 innings and getting the loss?
Again, this trumps everything.
Kinda like these games?7-15 TOR - 8 IP - 2 ER - 9K - LOSS7-25 CLE - 8 IP - 1 ER - 7K - LOSS8-17 LAA - 7 IP - 1 ER - 8K - ND :popcorn: It doesn't trump much. I'm not saying CC didn't deserve the award. It was pretty much a tossup and the extra innings earned it for him... but don't act like Beckett got cushy run support all year long and got a win every time he deserved it. Beckett could have easily won 23 games this year. Just sayin :goodposting:
 
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s_ezy said:
David Yudkin said:
Far be it from me, of all people, to argue that stats don't matter, but in this case I think that that is partly true.In watching most of Beckett's starts, he did have games where the Sox jumped out to big leads. In those situations, his job was to throw strikes and let the other team hit the ball. If he gave up a few runs it didn't matter. He's showed over the years that in close games or high profile games he can pitch as well as anyone.IMO, the fact that he may have grooved a few pitches and allowed a few extra runs (especially HR) in games that were already out of reach dramatically HURT his Cy Young chances. He probably allowed 10 runs that really didn't matter in games that were all ready decided and was basically just chewing up innings to save the bullpen. I know you can't not count those runs, but had he been going "all out" in those situations and been much more concerned about allowing any runs or hits, his ERA would have been in the 2.80 range. So while he was able to get a few easy victories, IMO that may have hurt his other peripheral numbers because he really didn't need to make every pitch count and he pitched differently with big leads.And I'm not dissing C.C., just pointing out that their situations were not the same and IMO Beckett's numbers could have been better if the Sox needed him to go all out every inning.
if we are playing woulda coulda shoulda,.... what if C.C. had gotten any run support during that 4 game stretch where he was allowing about a run per 9 innings and getting the loss?
Again, this trumps everything.
Allowing 2 ER or less . . .Beckett No decisions 2Losses 2CCNo decisions 6Losses 3I'm not disputing that CC should have had more wins, but Beckett had a lower ERA and WHIP than Sabathia did the entire season until Beckett's final start in a game vs MIN that didn't matter at all (allowing 10 hits and 5 ER in 6 IP).If Beckett DIDN'T PITCH that game and had a lower ERA and WHIP than Sabathia did, would people be flip flopping and have said Beckett should have won?
 
I'm not disputing that CC should have had more wins, but Beckett had a lower ERA and WHIP than Sabathia did the entire season until Beckett's final start in a game vs MIN that didn't matter at all (allowing 10 hits and 5 ER in 6 IP).If Beckett DIDN'T PITCH that game and had a lower ERA and WHIP than Sabathia did, would people be flip flopping and have said Beckett should have won?
Very valid point here. Forgot about that. :lmao: Regardless.. I want to make it clear that my discussion here does not mean I don't think CC deserved it.. just talking baseball :thumbup:
 
s_ezy said:
David Yudkin said:
Far be it from me, of all people, to argue that stats don't matter, but in this case I think that that is partly true.

In watching most of Beckett's starts, he did have games where the Sox jumped out to big leads. In those situations, his job was to throw strikes and let the other team hit the ball. If he gave up a few runs it didn't matter. He's showed over the years that in close games or high profile games he can pitch as well as anyone.

IMO, the fact that he may have grooved a few pitches and allowed a few extra runs (especially HR) in games that were already out of reach dramatically HURT his Cy Young chances. He probably allowed 10 runs that really didn't matter in games that were all ready decided and was basically just chewing up innings to save the bullpen.

I know you can't not count those runs, but had he been going "all out" in those situations and been much more concerned about allowing any runs or hits, his ERA would have been in the 2.80 range. So while he was able to get a few easy victories, IMO that may have hurt his other peripheral numbers because he really didn't need to make every pitch count and he pitched differently with big leads.

And I'm not dissing C.C., just pointing out that their situations were not the same and IMO Beckett's numbers could have been better if the Sox needed him to go all out every inning.
if we are playing woulda coulda shoulda,.... what if C.C. had gotten any run support during that 4 game stretch where he was allowing about a run per 9 innings and getting the loss?
Again, this trumps everything.
Allowing 2 ER or less . . .Beckett

No decisions 2

Losses 2

CC

No decisions 6

Losses 3

I'm not disputing that CC should have had more wins, but Beckett had a lower ERA and WHIP than Sabathia did the entire season until Beckett's final start in a game vs MIN that didn't matter at all (allowing 10 hits and 5 ER in 6 IP).

If Beckett DIDN'T PITCH that game and had a lower ERA and WHIP than Sabathia did, would people be flip flopping and have said Beckett should have won?
All I'm saying is if we start going to the woulda/coulda/shoulda stuff, nothing trumps CC's tough luck stretch and the stats bolded above.I'm not sure what others would be saying. I personally don't think that would have changed the voting or many of the point of views in this thread.

Either way, both guys were very deserving. I'm sure Beckett is happy with his title.

 

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