Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
Not trying to be insulting. That what it reads like to me. Which reason do you think means he should do time?
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Alec Baldwin killed a woman on set with prop gun (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sinn Fein
- Start date
encaitar
Footballguy
It is a funny world.
Who fired the gun that killed a woman on the set? Alec Baldwin.
Who didn't pay attention during the mandatory gun safety briefing? Alec Baldwin.
Who was in charge of the set where two previous gun misfires had already occurred that caused seasoned professionals to quit due to safety concerns? Alec Baldwin.
The idea that he should be assigned some of the blame doesn't seem like "people just want someone they've heard of to hold responsible" to me.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
For the most part, I don't really want to dive into some of the fray going on here, but there have been other fatalities in previous movie productions (shootings, accidents, drownings, crashes, stunts gone wrong) where I am sure there were issues in lack of firearms training, inexperienced people not fully qualified for the roles they had on set, poor safety practices, improper maintenance of equipment, crew members walking off productions, etc. But I don't seem to remember times where individuals were criminally charged in those incidents. I am sure there most likely were sizable civil suits, insurance claims, and big dollar settlements. Obviously one fatality is one too many, but I'm curious why those incidents didn't merit the scrutiny and infuriation that the Baldwin case has. Why weren't criminal charges filed in those other tragedies?
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
That’s not the way movie sets work.
Lebron James is an executive producer on various projects. He has nothing to do with the day to day operations. AB as an actor is only focused on acting. All of the producer duties were most likely handled by his subordinates.
encaitar
Footballguy
I assume the circumstances weren't the same. I don't recall another movie set death where multiple safety violations had occurred in the few days before. I don't recall another movie set death where the actor was pointing the gun at a person and pulling the trigger without direct instructions to do so. Again, just reading what occurred IN THIS CASE ALONE, it seems he bears a portion of the guilt. I can't speak to other cases that haven't been as scrutinized.
However, saying he shouldn't be charged because no one else ever has been in an accidental movie death is not a valid reason to me.
Runkle
Footballguy
The first/most recent incident that comes to mind for me is the Gregg Allman movie "Midnight Rider", where a production assistant named Sarah Jones was struck by a train and killed while filming on a set near train tracks, in Georgia in 2014. The director/producer Randall Miller, writer/producer Jody Savin, executive producer Jay Sedrish, and assistant director Hillary Schwartz were all charged with involuntary manslaughter. The director pled guilty and got a 10-year sentence, of which he served one year in prison and was granted probation for the remainder. Sedrish pled guilty and got 10 years probation. The charges against Savin were dismissed as part of the plea deals for the director (her husband). The assistant director pled guilty and also received 10 years probation.
Afterwards the "Safety for Sarah" campaign started, to raise awareness of safety issues on set. Most union crews are given frequent reminders of protocols and I still see "Saftey for Sarah" bumper stickers on equipment, vehicles, and office doors. Many in the industry are aware of the event and that the producers and assistant director faced criminal charges.
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encaitar
Footballguy
If LeBron James were the executive producer of a project that had multiple safety issues and didn't change anything about it despite knowing about those failures, he'd likely be under similar scrutiny.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
That's not really what I was saying. I was wondering what determines if charges are or aren't filed, and from the incidents that I vaguely remember, most of the other times charges weren't filed (or if they were, they were either dropped or plead out). Many times, financial settlements were reached or civil actions were filed.
I will use a different example which also didn't make sense to me. I know someone who had a brother that was killed in a car accident. The crash was minor, but the gas tank exploded and that eliminated any chance of surviving. The family took the manufacturer to court and in the discovery process found all sorts of reports and internal communication that identified the issue and reported it all the way up to the CEO. That led to number crunching and risk assessment to try to figure out just how many vehicles were impacted and what to do about it.
That spelled out that there was a known design flaw where minor accidents could result in fatalities. Production was briefly stopped and the problem was addressed and corrected, but they decided not to do anything about the cars that were already on the market. By their math, not enough vehicles were impacted so they did not initiate a recall or a transportation safety bulletin. The family got an eight figure settlement, but even with the paper trail that named names and what they all knew, law enforcement would not investigate further.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Nope. That’s just not the way the business works. Simply because AB was on site as an actor/director/grip/electrcian/craft services/whatever does not mean that he’s acting as the producer on site. ESPECIALLY if he’s the executive producer.
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
BLOCKED_PUNT
Footballguy
Well the actual quote was
If you have to edit a quote then maybe the quote doesn't mean what you want it to. You say it makes no sense but unless ghostguy123 is an account of yours or he's a friend that you talk to outside of this site then you have no idea what he meant or what he believes. Earlier, he gave the example of a nurse that kills thier patient (commits involuntary manslaughter) would not see prision time. Does every charge of involuntary manslaughter result in prision time? probably not or maybe it does, dunno not a lawyer. What I think he thinks or believes is that drunk driving and an accidental medical related death do not make one a criminal amd shouldn't result in jail time. And honestly, I can sorta get on board. Accidents happen and throwing someone in jail does ???? In the eyes of the law, both a car accident while DUI and a medical accident are involuntary manslaughter. Now drunk driving, as you point out, is seen as an intentional act but I would not be surprised if he (and many others) don't see it as anything more than an accident. He's welcome to come in here and explain himself further. Although it would be interesting to see what he thinks about the armorer going to jail.
I ABHOR drunk driving so I think it explains my initial hostile reaction and I just thought he was either unaware that drunk driving was a crime or that he doesn't consider it a "criminal act".
I guess my stance is that a women lost her life, its sad and nothing is going to remedy that.
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
I don't think we have enough info for this.
Runkle
Footballguy
Since the trial was halted, we simply don't know how much of a role Baldwin had. Some producers are "in name only", some are deep into the day-to-day. There could be a dozen with the title on a movie. The liability of each would have been a matter of fact for the jury to determine.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Executive Producer vs Producer | 8 Key Differences (Film) - Celtx Blog
What is the difference between an executive producer vs a producer? Although they share a title, they have very different roles. Learn more!
blog.celtx.com
BLOCKED_PUNT
Footballguy
Rust (2024) - IMDb
Rust (2024) cast and crew credits, including actors, actresses, directors, writers and more.
www.imdb.com
he was a producer not ep
culdeus
Footballguy
And producers are in charge of bringing the bullets?Rust (2024) - IMDb
Rust (2024) cast and crew credits, including actors, actresses, directors, writers and more.
he was a producer not ep
TennesseeJed
Footballguy
The criminal trial is over - the civil trial will be next …
BLOCKED_PUNT
Footballguy
I think it's the prop master, which was also the armorer.
If this was a snarky comment about Baldwin being inno b/c he wasn't the prop master in charge of supplies....I was just replying to bigbottom whom I thought wanted to know if Baldwin was a producer or an ep.
If this was a snarky comment about Baldwin being inno b/c he wasn't the prop master in charge of supplies....I was just replying to bigbottom whom I thought wanted to know if Baldwin was a producer or an ep.
Dezbelief
Footballguy
The civil trial has already been settled. The movie has already been finished in another state. The judge in Alec Baldwin’s trial ruled that mentioning his producer role be excluded during the trial. The purposely withheld evidence explains how the bullets got in the gun. Alec Baldwin’s criminal case was dismissed in such way as that he won't be tried again with the same charges. The armorer has a chance of getting her conviction reversed by the withheld evidence. It's all out there in the interwebs. I will not provide links. Do your own homework if you care. Please don't quote me I am done engaging in this thread.
TennesseeJed
Footballguy
When you are done chastising everyone on the internet for not doing their research - maybe take some time to read:
Alec Baldwin Thanks Supporters, but Still Faces Lawsuits in ‘Rust’ Shooting
Attorney Gloria Allred vowed on Saturday to press ahead with a civil suit against Alec Baldwin on behalf of Halyna Hutchins' family.
variety.com
TennesseeJed
Footballguy
More research for you - if you have the time:
An attorney for the family of Rust cinematographer Halyna Hutchins said that Alec Baldwin's involuntary manslaughter case being dismissed "only strengthens our resolve to pursue justice in the civil case."
On Saturday, July 13, attorney Gloria Allred spoke to reporters outside of a courthouse in Santa Fe, New Mexico — one day after Baldwin's case was dismissed with prejudice by Judge Mary Marlowe Sommer. Allred said that she "respectfully disagrees" with the dismissal, per CBS News.
"The dismissal only strengthens our resolve to pursue justice in the civil case that we have filed against him in Santa Fe, New Mexico," said Allred, who represents the late cinematographer's parents and sister.
The attorney added that the news was "devastating to the family in Ukraine who mourn [Halyna's] loss every day" and that they intend to "fight to the end," per the outlet. Allred does not represent Halyna's widower, Matthew Hutchins, who previously settled a wrongful death lawsuit that he filed in 2022. Matthew previously said he believed his wife's death was a "terrible accident" and that he had "no interest in engaging in recriminations or attribution of blame (to the producers or Mr. Baldwin)."
In footage from her announcement, shared by KCAL-TV, Allred also said she was "dedicated" to holding Baldwin, 66, and the "entire Rust production accountable" in the civil lawsuit, which she noted was "not affected by the decision of the court yesterday in the criminal case."
"Our case is important, because we believe that everyone — yes, even celebrities like Alec Baldwin and producers — should follow accepted safety protocols so that all crew members have a safe workplace," Allred said.
An attorney for the family of Rust cinematographer Halyna Hutchins said that Alec Baldwin's involuntary manslaughter case being dismissed "only strengthens our resolve to pursue justice in the civil case."
On Saturday, July 13, attorney Gloria Allred spoke to reporters outside of a courthouse in Santa Fe, New Mexico — one day after Baldwin's case was dismissed with prejudice by Judge Mary Marlowe Sommer. Allred said that she "respectfully disagrees" with the dismissal, per CBS News.
"The dismissal only strengthens our resolve to pursue justice in the civil case that we have filed against him in Santa Fe, New Mexico," said Allred, who represents the late cinematographer's parents and sister.
The attorney added that the news was "devastating to the family in Ukraine who mourn [Halyna's] loss every day" and that they intend to "fight to the end," per the outlet. Allred does not represent Halyna's widower, Matthew Hutchins, who previously settled a wrongful death lawsuit that he filed in 2022. Matthew previously said he believed his wife's death was a "terrible accident" and that he had "no interest in engaging in recriminations or attribution of blame (to the producers or Mr. Baldwin)."
In footage from her announcement, shared by KCAL-TV, Allred also said she was "dedicated" to holding Baldwin, 66, and the "entire Rust production accountable" in the civil lawsuit, which she noted was "not affected by the decision of the court yesterday in the criminal case."
"Our case is important, because we believe that everyone — yes, even celebrities like Alec Baldwin and producers — should follow accepted safety protocols so that all crew members have a safe workplace," Allred said.
CGRdrJoe
Footballguy
A snipet from an article recently put out about the Brandon Lee death on the set of the crow drawing parrells to this
www.theguardian.com
“And a practice in which the first assistant director, oftentimes the key grip, the prop master are all involved with the actor, making certain a weapon is cold when it’s cold, is hot when it’s hot, and there is nothing in the barrel or chamber that could be ejected.
“To see that in the almost 30 years between the movies we hadn’t improved upon that was certainly devastating. I will say that I find it tragic and beyond belief that Alec Baldwin has been held any bit responsible for this. As a producer with more than 30 years’ experience and numerous action films under his belt, I can assure you that there is no place in the world in which an actor is responsible for the weapon they’re handling.”
‘It was a horrific night’: 30 years on from the on-set death of Brandon Lee
The actor was killed in a freak accident on the set of The Crow, a tragedy that still haunts those who worked alongside
“And a practice in which the first assistant director, oftentimes the key grip, the prop master are all involved with the actor, making certain a weapon is cold when it’s cold, is hot when it’s hot, and there is nothing in the barrel or chamber that could be ejected.
“To see that in the almost 30 years between the movies we hadn’t improved upon that was certainly devastating. I will say that I find it tragic and beyond belief that Alec Baldwin has been held any bit responsible for this. As a producer with more than 30 years’ experience and numerous action films under his belt, I can assure you that there is no place in the world in which an actor is responsible for the weapon they’re handling.”
