Am sitting out the 2008 fantasy season (1 Viewer)

[pinequick]

I've often wondered if pro athletes are fairly generalized as being thugs or are perhaps just a microcosm of society. With 32 NFL teams and between 55-80 players on a team at any given time you have between 1800-2600 players in the league at any given time. Really 1-2 arrests per day out of that population doesn't seem bad to me...Most of these guys are between the ages of 22-28. I wonder if you profiled 1800 men with similar demographics if you'd have roughly the same percentage of thugs & criminals or if leagues like the NFL are bound to have a higher % of thugs because of the large piles of money and free time many of these young men occupy.

1% of the US population is incarcerated in jail:http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/kho...s.53f256a0.html

With 53-man rosters, there are ~1,700 NFL players every season.

To hold to the national average, 17 would have to be jailed, which isn't even close. I'm not even sure that that many are arrested in a season (though it might be close or higher).

You have to divide the percent that are incarcerated by the average length of incarceration to come up with how many you would expect to go to jail in any given year.It's true that if you look at the demographics (in terms of age and race) then the NFL players are doing very well compared to those groups as a whole. On the other hand if you go by other demographics (employment status and income), I'm sure they're among the worst of their peers in those groups.

Yeah--throw a lot of money at a kid with a shaky background, and that will make everything okay.Come on, is that seriously the logic at work here?

 

[pinequick]

The topic hit a nerve, I see. Good. Not much going on until training camps open, anyway.

I've read all the posts. Many great points. I don't mind the inevitable criticism---even being labeled moronic (after all, this is the Shark Pool), and I appreciate the advice. I have enjoyed fantasy football and am usually the type to start preparing for drafts right after the prior season ends and later play in 3-4 leagues a year.

There is no denying how many "good guys" there are in the NFL. Yet, as mentioned earlier, the Warrick Dunns aren't normally hyped by the media, but some are. Pat Tillman comes to mind and is deservedly characterized as a hero. But, in promoting the games, the networks play up the "bad boys," the players who crave attention, and ones who want to re-negotiate their contract after one good season or else they aren't reporting to camp. But my chief concern is how prevalent bad/criminal behavior has become, and I don't think the media is over-reporting that. If anything, events like Jimmy Smith's suspicious surprise retirement and the Marshawn Lynch hit and run are downplayed. A guy earning millions, someone with responsibilities and the trust of their bosses, can't be selfish, consider themselves above the law, and hide behind agents and attorneys. It doesn't matter if you're 18 years old or 35 as far as right and wrong are concerned and too many athletes have been on scholarship for life (Reggie Bush), believing they'll always be protected, no matter what.

I wonder how many parents had to explain to kids with #7 Falcon jerseys why Vick is in jail. On this very site, there was a great amount of taunting toward the guy during the Ron Mexico fiasco. I guess you can poke fun at player stupidity or you can get irritated by it, especially when teams protect star players while sacrificing the marginal ones in trouble. It's only when the star who screws up has no more wiggle room, a la Vick, that teams decide to sever ties.

It wasn't my intention to deride anyone's passion for FF. Play on. I just believe we deserve more and we deserve better from these guys since a major group of them are looked up to by young fans who don't understand why their favorite player beat up his girlfriend or rammed her car while she and their baby were sitting in it. But maybe the type of player molded by the Vince Lombardis are a thing of the past. Society has become more tolerant of the Pac-Man Jones characters and more lenient toward those who lack personal integrity. For those current players with charities and so forth, they are doing a fine thing for society and it is probably in their nature to do so instead of being a PR thing. Very admirable.

Well, I might be back. Great words of wisdom earlier about when a thing ceases to be fun, it is best to take a break. It could lend perspective. Peace, brothers.

Clearly you believe that. It's just problematic for me that you have failed to provide any argument as to *why* you should reasonably expect "better" from these guys. How would you justify expecting more of these sub-set of people than a group of their peers selected from society? They should all--without exception--be model citizens because they make a lot of money (and have a boatload of media attention), is that it? Is that your argument?

 

[monessen]

The topic hit a nerve, I see. Good. Not much going on until training camps open, anyway.

I've read all the posts. Many great points. I don't mind the inevitable criticism---even being labeled moronic (after all, this is the Shark Pool), and I appreciate the advice. I have enjoyed fantasy football and am usually the type to start preparing for drafts right after the prior season ends and later play in 3-4 leagues a year.

There is no denying how many "good guys" there are in the NFL. Yet, as mentioned earlier, the Warrick Dunns aren't normally hyped by the media, but some are. Pat Tillman comes to mind and is deservedly characterized as a hero. But, in promoting the games, the networks play up the "bad boys," the players who crave attention, and ones who want to re-negotiate their contract after one good season or else they aren't reporting to camp. But my chief concern is how prevalent bad/criminal behavior has become, and I don't think the media is over-reporting that. If anything, events like Jimmy Smith's suspicious surprise retirement and the Marshawn Lynch hit and run are downplayed. A guy earning millions, someone with responsibilities and the trust of their bosses, can't be selfish, consider themselves above the law, and hide behind agents and attorneys. It doesn't matter if you're 18 years old or 35 as far as right and wrong are concerned and too many athletes have been on scholarship for life (Reggie Bush), believing they'll always be protected, no matter what.

I wonder how many parents had to explain to kids with #7 Falcon jerseys why Vick is in jail. On this very site, there was a great amount of taunting toward the guy during the Ron Mexico fiasco. I guess you can poke fun at player stupidity or you can get irritated by it, especially when teams protect star players while sacrificing the marginal ones in trouble. It's only when the star who screws up has no more wiggle room, a la Vick, that teams decide to sever ties.

It wasn't my intention to deride anyone's passion for FF. Play on. I just believe we deserve more and we deserve better from these guys since a major group of them are looked up to by young fans who don't understand why their favorite player beat up his girlfriend or rammed her car while she and their baby were sitting in it. But maybe the type of player molded by the Vince Lombardis are a thing of the past. Society has become more tolerant of the Pac-Man Jones characters and more lenient toward those who lack personal integrity. For those current players with charities and so forth, they are doing a fine thing for society and it is probably in their nature to do so instead of being a PR thing. Very admirable.

Well, I might be back. Great words of wisdom earlier about when a thing ceases to be fun, it is best to take a break. It could lend perspective. Peace, brothers.

Clearly you believe that. It's just problematic for me that you have failed to provide any argument as to *why* you should reasonably expect "better" from these guys. How would you justify expecting more of these sub-set of people than a group of their peers selected from society? They should all--without exception--be model citizens because they make a lot of money (and have a boatload of media attention), is that it? Is that your argument?

I thought I was done. I'll try again, since you are indignant. That is ironic, because my case is predicated on indignation. No, it would be absurd to expect all to be model citizens. However, there are personal conduct expectations incumbent on any NFL player as stipulated by the league and by teams. A significant number of players have admitted to making "bad choices," to the point those choices reflect patterns of bad behavior. An NFL player who violates those conduct expectations ends up hurting himself, his teammates, the organization, and the league. Not to mention those fans who have come to cheer for the player. I believe such players act selfishly and with short-sightedness.

This past season, for instance, two Steelers assaulted domestic partners in public. Think that is acceptable? The Rooneys dumped the expendable one, but kept James Harrison since he is more valuable to the team. But Harrison is likely on a short leash. So, yes, as a Steeler fan, I think I expect more from guys on that roster. The Bengals, in the same division, already have become the subject of many jokes because of their thugs and goofballs. Those characters haven't shown much character and there has been a backlash in that community, though we laugh about it on threads here. It's more disgraceful than funny.

Maybe William Bennett had it right in his book The Death Of Outrage. We the public have had our standards lowered over time to the point where former transgressions become tolerable. Just about anything goes, as long as no one is killed. I'm not talking about cell phones at the restaurant or rude telemarketers. I'm talking about young men who should be glad they are gifted enough to play in the NFL and then pee it away because of their hubris and inability to see anything except satisfying their egos and believing they aren't subject to consequences because of who they are. So, yes, my Shrek-character friend. I do expect more mature behavior because these players need to be held to a higher standard. They represent more than just themselves when they screw up whether they like it or not or even know that.

 

[Interseptopus]

Oh boy. Another fantasy owner trying to make himself into a martyr by not playing FF. No one will notice.

I agree, the NFL has turned out a lot of cry babies and thugs, but it's fairly simple- draft players who aren't like that. Draft someone you CAN cheer for.

Also, you're wrong about Travis Henry- he didn't father 9 kids with 9 different women in 2008. We just found out about #9 in 2008. He fathered the others in previous years.

If you want to quit playing FF for your own personal reasons fine. Trying to make yourself into a martyr by posting like this and making it into an issue... you're not quitting FF because of those reasons. You're quitting FF because you want to be a martyr. If you really meant what you said, this whole thread wouldn't have been neccessary for you to post

 

[AnonymousBob]

Okay, what do you define as a "bad guy"? That would go a very long ways to clearing up confusion.

Is it when they get arrested? When they do something that calls attention to themselves? Or is it whenever they do something you personally disagree with?

 

[monessen]

I apologize for the misplaced modifier on the Travis Henry baby track record. I typed without proofreading and didn't edit. If typos or grammatical errors are a crime here, we're all going to jail. Most seemed to know what I meant.

As for martyrdom, I ain't no better than nobody else and didn't claim to be. The only reason I wrote the last post is because ####'N Boots from Shrek asked me a question. So, I offered a reply. If, like the grammatical mistake about Henry's 9 kids, it upset you, I am sorry I made you so unhappy.

Look, all I want to do is sit this season, ok? I got ticked because the off-season featured a few more than usual knucklehead incidents and a lot of key people are looking the other way. If it offended you, that wasn't my intention.

Apart from the Henry correction, I don't know what prompted you to write, except to pile on. Hasn't this been dragged out enough? Do you want me to move to Tibet, repent, meditate, and maybe acquire greater wisdom so as to never criticize anything?

Am proofreading . . .looks ok . . . add reply.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Oh boy. Another fantasy owner trying to make himself into a martyr by not playing FF. No one will notice.I agree, the NFL has turned out a lot of cry babies and thugs, but it's fairly simple- draft players who aren't like that. Draft someone you CAN cheer for. Also, you're wrong about Travis Henry- he didn't father 9 kids with 9 different women in 2008. We just found out about #9 in 2008. He fathered the others in previous years.If you want to quit playing FF for your own personal reasons fine. Trying to make yourself into a martyr by posting like this and making it into an issue... you're not quitting FF because of those reasons. You're quitting FF because you want to be a martyr. If you really meant what you said, this whole thread wouldn't have been neccessary for you to post

Actually, you seem a little defensive. All the guy is saying is that he's a bit turned off by the product and wants a break. He didn't need to post that, but you didn't need to reply to it and most threads don't even need to exist. It's a football message board in June. Give him a break.I can see what he's saying, but I also agree with you. Nobody will notice so it's not going to accomplish anything. But that's one way of dealing with his disappointment. I know a guy who did basically the same thing, and he's watching the NFL a lot less. He watches more college football now. There are still trouble-makers, but with so many teams they're easier to avoid. All that doesn't bother me as much because I see the NFL as a product that I choose to support. I have a team I like but I don't "owe" them anything. If anything, they owe me a good product and reasonable merchandise prices. If I get it, they get my support. If not, they don't. If the team and the players are going to treat it like a business, then so am I.

 

[FUBAR]

Maybe William Bennett had it right in his book The Death Of Outrage. We the public have had our standards lowered over time to the point where former transgressions become tolerable. Just about anything goes, as long as no one is killed. I'm not talking about cell phones at the restaurant or rude telemarketers. I'm talking about young men who should be glad they are gifted enough to play in the NFL and then pee it away because of their hubris and inability to see anything except satisfying their egos and believing they aren't subject to consequences because of who they are. So, yes, my Shrek-character friend. I do expect more mature behavior because these players need to be held to a higher standard. They represent more than just themselves when they screw up whether they like it or not or even know that.

Herein lays the issue I have with your posts, the players are no worse today than they were 10-20-50 years ago. We just know more about it now.Do you think many of these guys are worse than Lawrence Taylor - just to name one well known example.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I've often wondered if pro athletes are fairly generalized as being thugs or are perhaps just a microcosm of society. With 32 NFL teams and between 55-80 players on a team at any given time you have between 1800-2600 players in the league at any given time. Really 1-2 arrests per day out of that population doesn't seem bad to me...Most of these guys are between the ages of 22-28. I wonder if you profiled 1800 men with similar demographics if you'd have roughly the same percentage of thugs & criminals or if leagues like the NFL are bound to have a higher % of thugs because of the large piles of money and free time many of these young men occupy.

1% of the US population is incarcerated in jail:http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/kho...s.53f256a0.html

With 53-man rosters, there are ~1,700 NFL players every season.

To hold to the national average, 17 would have to be jailed, which isn't even close. I'm not even sure that that many are arrested in a season (though it might be close or higher).

If the jailed population had access to the same legal representation and (to a lesser degree) star treatment, I don't think they'd all be in jail.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

The topic hit a nerve, I see. Good. Not much going on until training camps open, anyway.

I've read all the posts. Many great points. I don't mind the inevitable criticism---even being labeled moronic (after all, this is the Shark Pool), and I appreciate the advice. I have enjoyed fantasy football and am usually the type to start preparing for drafts right after the prior season ends and later play in 3-4 leagues a year.

There is no denying how many "good guys" there are in the NFL. Yet, as mentioned earlier, the Warrick Dunns aren't normally hyped by the media, but some are. Pat Tillman comes to mind and is deservedly characterized as a hero. But, in promoting the games, the networks play up the "bad boys," the players who crave attention, and ones who want to re-negotiate their contract after one good season or else they aren't reporting to camp. But my chief concern is how prevalent bad/criminal behavior has become, and I don't think the media is over-reporting that. If anything, events like Jimmy Smith's suspicious surprise retirement and the Marshawn Lynch hit and run are downplayed. A guy earning millions, someone with responsibilities and the trust of their bosses, can't be selfish, consider themselves above the law, and hide behind agents and attorneys. It doesn't matter if you're 18 years old or 35 as far as right and wrong are concerned and too many athletes have been on scholarship for life (Reggie Bush), believing they'll always be protected, no matter what.

I wonder how many parents had to explain to kids with #7 Falcon jerseys why Vick is in jail. On this very site, there was a great amount of taunting toward the guy during the Ron Mexico fiasco. I guess you can poke fun at player stupidity or you can get irritated by it, especially when teams protect star players while sacrificing the marginal ones in trouble. It's only when the star who screws up has no more wiggle room, a la Vick, that teams decide to sever ties.

It wasn't my intention to deride anyone's passion for FF. Play on. I just believe we deserve more and we deserve better from these guys since a major group of them are looked up to by young fans who don't understand why their favorite player beat up his girlfriend or rammed her car while she and their baby were sitting in it. But maybe the type of player molded by the Vince Lombardis are a thing of the past. Society has become more tolerant of the Pac-Man Jones characters and more lenient toward those who lack personal integrity. For those current players with charities and so forth, they are doing a fine thing for society and it is probably in their nature to do so instead of being a PR thing. Very admirable.

Well, I might be back. Great words of wisdom earlier about when a thing ceases to be fun, it is best to take a break. It could lend perspective. Peace, brothers.

Clearly you believe that. It's just problematic for me that you have failed to provide any argument as to *why* you should reasonably expect "better" from these guys. How would you justify expecting more of these sub-set of people than a group of their peers selected from society? They should all--without exception--be model citizens because they make a lot of money (and have a boatload of media attention), is that it? Is that your argument?

I think there's a sentiment that these guys should be a little more thankful for their situation. Enjoying the NFL is expensive; it would be nice if they threw in "good role models for your kids" as a bonus. Maybe it's not realistic, but it would help justify the cost. Seeing guys appreciate what they have and acting like decent citizens (the Mannings helping out natural disaster victims, for example) instead of spitting on their situation is preferable.

 

[texasheat]

Best of luck... Now go out there and make the world a better place!

 

[texasheat]

Here's hoping you reconsider.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Here's hoping you reconsider.

 

[radballs]

To the OP,

Enjoy your hiatus. The NFL and its true fans aren't going anywhere. Dip your big toe back in the water when you feel like there has been a significant shift in the morale of the NFL player base. And I assume you're saying that you are not only quitting FF but also not watching NFL games? Otherwise, there's some hypocrisy here.

 

[switz]

Maybe William Bennett had it right in his book The Death Of Outrage. We the public have had our standards lowered over time to the point where former transgressions become tolerable. Just about anything goes, as long as no one is killed. I'm not talking about cell phones at the restaurant or rude telemarketers. I'm talking about young men who should be glad they are gifted enough to play in the NFL and then pee it away because of their hubris and inability to see anything except satisfying their egos and believing they aren't subject to consequences because of who they are. So, yes, my Shrek-character friend. I do expect more mature behavior because these players need to be held to a higher standard. They represent more than just themselves when they screw up whether they like it or not or even know that.

Herein lays the issue I have with your posts, the players are no worse today than they were 10-20-50 years ago. We just know more about it now.Do you think many of these guys are worse than Lawrence Taylor - just to name one well known example.

This is simply not true. Sure there were a few players 20-50 years ago who were hard drinking, womanizers, etc. But how many were abusing drugs? Killing people? Raping people? etc.You want to chalk it up to a lack of reporting, but reality is the entire moral fabric of society has worn thin over the past 50 years.

 

[radballs]

You want to chalk it up to a lack of reporting, but reality is the entire moral fabric of society has worn thin over the past 50 years.

You're right. Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb were Saints.

 

[Lancer4Hire]

Maybe William Bennett had it right in his book The Death Of Outrage. We the public have had our standards lowered over time to the point where former transgressions become tolerable. Just about anything goes, as long as no one is killed. I'm not talking about cell phones at the restaurant or rude telemarketers. I'm talking about young men who should be glad they are gifted enough to play in the NFL and then pee it away because of their hubris and inability to see anything except satisfying their egos and believing they aren't subject to consequences because of who they are. So, yes, my Shrek-character friend. I do expect more mature behavior because these players need to be held to a higher standard. They represent more than just themselves when they screw up whether they like it or not or even know that.

Herein lays the issue I have with your posts, the players are no worse today than they were 10-20-50 years ago. We just know more about it now.Do you think many of these guys are worse than Lawrence Taylor - just to name one well known example.

This is simply not true. Sure there were a few players 20-50 years ago who were hard drinking, womanizers, etc. But how many were abusing drugs? Killing people? Raping people? etc.

You want to chalk it up to a lack of reporting, but reality is the entire moral fabric of society has worn thin over the past 50 years.

Lots of people say this, but there is no real evidence to support this.

 

[FUBAR]

Maybe William Bennett had it right in his book The Death Of Outrage. We the public have had our standards lowered over time to the point where former transgressions become tolerable. Just about anything goes, as long as no one is killed. I'm not talking about cell phones at the restaurant or rude telemarketers. I'm talking about young men who should be glad they are gifted enough to play in the NFL and then pee it away because of their hubris and inability to see anything except satisfying their egos and believing they aren't subject to consequences because of who they are. So, yes, my Shrek-character friend. I do expect more mature behavior because these players need to be held to a higher standard. They represent more than just themselves when they screw up whether they like it or not or even know that.

Herein lays the issue I have with your posts, the players are no worse today than they were 10-20-50 years ago. We just know more about it now.Do you think many of these guys are worse than Lawrence Taylor - just to name one well known example.

This is simply not true. Sure there were a few players 20-50 years ago who were hard drinking, womanizers, etc. But how many were abusing drugs? Killing people? Raping people? etc.You want to chalk it up to a lack of reporting, but reality is the entire moral fabric of society has worn thin over the past 50 years.

There were plenty abusing drugs. I don't know how many were killing people, but one of the old-timers "probably" did.

Rape - I don't know either, do you?

on the last comment. The 60's (almost 50 years ago now) was not a time of higher moral fabric.

 

[fatness]

You want to chalk it up to a lack of reporting, but reality is the entire moral fabric of society has worn thin over the past 50 years.

I don't think you're right. 50 years ago women and blacks were beaten routinely and it never made the news or the courts.

 

[TC]

Here's my elder view of today's NFL news. For longer than I've been a fan, professional athletes have been agressive. The difference between then and now is the media cares about reporting who does what.

A night out with the guys at a girly bar? Sure. It happens many weekends in each major city. The level between public violence and athlete violent is likely pretty level. (Sad but true) If you game my young man / son a monthly budget of $50,000. he might be in the police's spotlight, too. Such are the times.

 

[pinequick]

The topic hit a nerve, I see. Good. Not much going on until training camps open, anyway.

I've read all the posts. Many great points. I don't mind the inevitable criticism---even being labeled moronic (after all, this is the Shark Pool), and I appreciate the advice. I have enjoyed fantasy football and am usually the type to start preparing for drafts right after the prior season ends and later play in 3-4 leagues a year.

There is no denying how many "good guys" there are in the NFL. Yet, as mentioned earlier, the Warrick Dunns aren't normally hyped by the media, but some are. Pat Tillman comes to mind and is deservedly characterized as a hero. But, in promoting the games, the networks play up the "bad boys," the players who crave attention, and ones who want to re-negotiate their contract after one good season or else they aren't reporting to camp. But my chief concern is how prevalent bad/criminal behavior has become, and I don't think the media is over-reporting that. If anything, events like Jimmy Smith's suspicious surprise retirement and the Marshawn Lynch hit and run are downplayed. A guy earning millions, someone with responsibilities and the trust of their bosses, can't be selfish, consider themselves above the law, and hide behind agents and attorneys. It doesn't matter if you're 18 years old or 35 as far as right and wrong are concerned and too many athletes have been on scholarship for life (Reggie Bush), believing they'll always be protected, no matter what.

I wonder how many parents had to explain to kids with #7 Falcon jerseys why Vick is in jail. On this very site, there was a great amount of taunting toward the guy during the Ron Mexico fiasco. I guess you can poke fun at player stupidity or you can get irritated by it, especially when teams protect star players while sacrificing the marginal ones in trouble. It's only when the star who screws up has no more wiggle room, a la Vick, that teams decide to sever ties.

It wasn't my intention to deride anyone's passion for FF. Play on. I just believe we deserve more and we deserve better from these guys since a major group of them are looked up to by young fans who don't understand why their favorite player beat up his girlfriend or rammed her car while she and their baby were sitting in it. But maybe the type of player molded by the Vince Lombardis are a thing of the past. Society has become more tolerant of the Pac-Man Jones characters and more lenient toward those who lack personal integrity. For those current players with charities and so forth, they are doing a fine thing for society and it is probably in their nature to do so instead of being a PR thing. Very admirable.

Well, I might be back. Great words of wisdom earlier about when a thing ceases to be fun, it is best to take a break. It could lend perspective. Peace, brothers.

Clearly you believe that. It's just problematic for me that you have failed to provide any argument as to *why* you should reasonably expect "better" from these guys. How would you justify expecting more of these sub-set of people than a group of their peers selected from society? They should all--without exception--be model citizens because they make a lot of money (and have a boatload of media attention), is that it? Is that your argument?

I thought I was done. I'll try again, since you are indignant. That is ironic, because my case is predicated on indignation. No, it would be absurd to expect all to be model citizens. However, there are personal conduct expectations incumbent on any NFL player as stipulated by the league and by teams. A significant number of players have admitted to making "bad choices," to the point those choices reflect patterns of bad behavior. An NFL player who violates those conduct expectations ends up hurting himself, his teammates, the organization, and the league. Not to mention those fans who have come to cheer for the player. I believe such players act selfishly and with short-sightedness.

This past season, for instance, two Steelers assaulted domestic partners in public. Think that is acceptable? The Rooneys dumped the expendable one, but kept James Harrison since he is more valuable to the team. But Harrison is likely on a short leash. So, yes, as a Steeler fan, I think I expect more from guys on that roster. The Bengals, in the same division, already have become the subject of many jokes because of their thugs and goofballs. Those characters haven't shown much character and there has been a backlash in that community, though we laugh about it on threads here. It's more disgraceful than funny.

Maybe William Bennett had it right in his book The Death Of Outrage. We the public have had our standards lowered over time to the point where former transgressions become tolerable. Just about anything goes, as long as no one is killed. I'm not talking about cell phones at the restaurant or rude telemarketers. I'm talking about young men who should be glad they are gifted enough to play in the NFL and then pee it away because of their hubris and inability to see anything except satisfying their egos and believing they aren't subject to consequences because of who they are. So, yes, my Shrek-character friend. I do expect more mature behavior because these players need to be held to a higher standard. They represent more than just themselves when they screw up whether they like it or not or even know that.

I guess I'm just sort of at a loss w/ your argument. The NFL has knuckleheads--you bet. Bet fewer than one might expect, given the backgrounds of some of the guys in the league (and as others have mentioned ad nauseum, the 24-hour news cycle that now covers them).You take a kid from a broken background and throw a lot of money at him... and somehow a CONDUCT POLICY is supposed to fix his issues? A conduct policy gives you a right to feel indignant? Or that he makes a lot of money? That gives you the right?

You're just a lot more ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater on this one than I am, I guess. As others have mentioned above, you seem to be focusing on the negatives, the bad guys. And while you might argue "well, that's because there are a lot of them!"--that's sort of weak, when you use a reasonable standard by which to judge the NFL and its players. Given the subset of individuals involved, the allocation of resources, and the intense media scrutiny... the NFL fares fairly well in keeping its number of knuckleheads to a minimum, in my estimation.

 

[fatness]

I thought I was done. I'll try again, since you are indignant.

If you can't let go, you probably won't be sitting out the 2008 fantasy season.

 

[monessen]

Assorted thoughts---

Someone told me to "be a man." Another said I was trying to be a martyr. I can't reconcile that. Being a man in the context expressed is to imply that some resolve and fortitude ought to be displayed. Martyrs tend to exhibit those traits; they go out and fall on the sword. Of course, they're not always men. Joan of Arc comes to mind. I'm happy to be a man but am not attempting to be a martyr---just taking a break from fantasy 2008. Am not trying to persuade people not to play. But if someone doesn't think it takes guts (and probably some stupidity) to go on a fantasy football website to say he's taking a hiatus from the game, someone isn't being fair.

Second, I do agree the NFL is taking measures to limit knuckleheadedness. Najeh Davenport was cut by the Steelers recently. Remember Najeh? A few years ago, he was arrested for spending the night in a woman's dormitory closet and defecating in it. He didn't know the woman. She didn't know him. Yet, somehow and for some reason, he was there. Despite being fingered and found to have done this, Davenport (nicknamed "Dookie" by Pro Football Talk) claimed that authorities never produced the manure in question from that night. Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb were hard-living, roughhouse types. They didn't defecate in a college girl's closet at Barry University based on any documented reports. Knuckleheads do things like that. A team will pick up Najeh if he is healthy, and a fantasy owner will probably use him some week, hoping for at least a TD. Personally, I can't forget the manure. Am not sure the Steelers cut him due to poor play, and assume it is either about money or the guy is trouble. Why do so many teams, these days, place emphasis on character at the combine and when drafting? Probably to avoid Najehs. So, yes, maybe the league knows it has a problem with how the public views its athletes.

Cover-ups----Why was there a gun registered to Marvin Harrison found in a bucket at his car wash while he was there, not long after some people in Philly were shot at at 4am with Harrison at the scene, and nothing really done about it? Is there any investigation going on? Harrison is a star, yet the media has essentially stopped following the story. Why? For the contention that the media pounces on such news and overreports it, where are they? The media treated Tom Brady's social life with a chuckle, but here's another great player whose behavior off the field (and admittedly, it is his life) diminishes respect fans had for him. Strahan is a great player, but if half of his ex-wife's contentions are accurate, what kind of "man" is he? And why should anyone admire him? But he'll be a Hall of Famer because all we care about is productivity on the field---the very thing fantasy football is based on. And the media has long moved on from the Strahan domestic matter, which is personal anyway, because he is now a Super Bowl champ. I can't separate Strahan the man from Strahan the player, but maybe that's my hang-up.

Next, a gent recommended "well, don't draft troublemakers," but was rebuffed by another who said anyone drafting the troublemakers likely will win the league. You know, the second observer is probably correct and helps make my point. There are many fewer "All-American," milk-drinking, apple-cheeked players out there and many more thugs, fueled by the "sudden millionaire syndrome." And a lot can't handle the fame and fortune. Heck, teams even assign watchdogs to some players in order to keep them out of trouble.

I think those who are looking at the stats on criminal activity and the correlation to conduct the NFL today are mining the issue for data, and that makes sense to me. Mine is just a visceral reaction, but they may have some genuine supporting material.

Throwing out the baby with the bathwater to me means boycotting the NFL completely and not just boycotting fantasy. A few people argued my stance isn't authentic unless I go all out and follow that course of action. So, I'm not sure we all apply the metaphor the same way here. But Pinequick raised many incisive questions that make me concede my stance is possibly predicated more on impulse than reason. Not to sound patronizing, but that is perceptive of Pinequick. Interestingly, a lot of us make lineup decisions on Sundays on impulse more than reason. Sometimes, instinct is the ticket.

Last, I didn't know that I couldn't use the storybook swashbuckling cat's name from Shrek without being censored. Oops.

 

[FUBAR]

If I didn't at least somewhat respect your feelings / thoughts, I wouldn't respond here, so please take what I'm going to say in the most positive light possible.

Someone told me to "be a man." Another said I was trying to be a martyr. I can't reconcile that. Being a man in the context expressed is to imply that some resolve and fortitude ought to be displayed. Martyrs tend to exhibit those traits; they go out and fall on the sword. Of course, they're not always men. Joan of Arc comes to mind. I'm happy to be a man but am not attempting to be a martyr---just taking a break from fantasy 2008. Am not trying to persuade people not to play. But if someone doesn't think it takes guts (and probably some stupidity) to go on a fantasy football website to say he's taking a hiatus from the game, someone isn't being fair.

If you mean courage, we have different definitions of that word.If you mean the less popular meaning, audacity / arrogant disregard for conventional thought, I can agree.

Second, I do agree the NFL is taking measures to limit knuckleheadedness. Najeh Davenport was cut by the Steelers recently. Remember Najeh? A few years ago, he was arrested for spending the night in a woman's dormitory closet and defecating in it. He didn't know the woman. She didn't know him. Yet, somehow and for some reason, he was there. Despite being fingered and found to have done this, Davenport (nicknamed "Dookie" by Pro Football Talk) claimed that authorities never produced the manure in question from that night. Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb were hard-living, roughhouse types. They didn't defecate in a college girl's closet at Barry University based on any documented reports. Knuckleheads do things like that. A team will pick up Najeh if he is healthy, and a fantasy owner will probably use him some week, hoping for at least a TD. Personally, I can't forget the manure. Am not sure the Steelers cut him due to poor play, and assume it is either about money or the guy is trouble. Why do so many teams, these days, place emphasis on character at the combine and when drafting? Probably to avoid Najehs. So, yes, maybe the league knows it has a problem with how the public views its athletes.

You actually thin pooping in a closet is worse than many of the things Cobb did? It was stupid, noone will say otherwise, but I wouldn't quit a hobby over it.Just remember, players get more $ from your watching the game than playing FF.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

But if someone doesn't think it takes guts (and probably some stupidity) to go on a fantasy football website to say he's taking a hiatus from the game, someone isn't being fair.

This thread seemed prepared die and from my POV if you want to take a break from FF, I see no harm in that. However, this statement seemed a bit silly.

Second, I do agree the NFL is taking measures to limit knuckleheadedness. Najeh Davenport was cut by the Steelers recently. Remember Najeh? A few years ago, he was arrested for spending the night in a woman's dormitory closet and defecating in it. He didn't know the woman. She didn't know him. Yet, somehow and for some reason, he was there. Despite being fingered and found to have done this, Davenport (nicknamed "Dookie" by Pro Football Talk) claimed that authorities never produced the manure in question from that night. Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb were hard-living, roughhouse types. They didn't defecate in a college girl's closet at Barry University based on any documented reports.

Now who is not being fair...? Najeh Davenport had one incident that is notorious because of it's complete lunacy. Disgusting - yes. But a one tme incident that happened I believe 4 years ago. Ty Cobb was a bigot and racist to his core every day of his life. Do we want to compare the merits of which character we should be more disappointed in? Why is Davenport not eligible for forgiveness?

Cover-ups----Why was there a gun registered to Marvin Harrison found in a bucket at his car wash while he was there, not long after some people in Philly were shot at at 4am with Harrison at the scene, and nothing really done about it? Is there any investigation going on? Harrison is a star, yet the media has essentially stopped following the story. Why? For the contention that the media pounces on such news and overreports it, where are they? The media treated Tom Brady's social life with a chuckle, but here's another great player whose behavior off the field (and admittedly, it is his life) diminishes respect fans had for him. Strahan is a great player, but if half of his ex-wife's contentions are accurate, what kind of "man" is he? And why should anyone admire him? But he'll be a Hall of Famer because all we care about is productivity on the field---the very thing fantasy football is based on. And the media has long moved on from the Strahan domestic matter, which is personal anyway, because he is now a Super Bowl champ. I can't separate Strahan the man from Strahan the player, but maybe that's my hang-up.

Cover-ups are not exclusive to sports. They happen in all professions of power. It's basically as simple as that...

Next, a gent recommended "well, don't draft troublemakers," but was rebuffed by another who said anyone drafting the troublemakers likely will win the league. You know, the second observer is probably correct and helps make my point. There are many fewer "All-American," milk-drinking, apple-cheeked players out there and many more thugs, fueled by the "sudden millionaire syndrome." And a lot can't handle the fame and fortune. Heck, teams even assign watchdogs to some players in order to keep them out of trouble.

Truth be told, you can easily win a league without drafting documented trouble makers...

Throwing out the baby with the bathwater to me means boycotting the NFL completely and not just boycotting fantasy. A few people argued my stance isn't authentic unless I go all out and follow that course of action. So, I'm not sure we all apply the metaphor the same way here. But Pinequick raised many incisive questions that make me concede my stance is possibly predicated more on impulse than reason. Not to sound patronizing, but that is perceptive of Pinequick. Interestingly, a lot of us make lineup decisions on Sundays on impulse more than reason. Sometimes, instinct is the ticket.

I support your stance because I once too was disappointed in a sport - baseball. After 1994. I vowed not to be a fan like I was prior. Growing up, I was a HUGE baseball fan. So I took a leave from the game. To give up baseball back then seemed life changing. Granted everyone had to give it up at the time. But I didn't go back back then and really never did go back. The emotional bond I had with the sport wound up being severed. I did wind up playing rotisserie for a few years (I believe from 1997-2002 about...), but today, I barely follow the sport. I missed it at first, but I felt that to go back when they came back would be to endorse what they had just done (strike/cancel the World Series). For my piece of mind, I did not go back and when my anger subsided, I realized I really didn't need to be that much of a fan anymore.Giving up FF is fine if you feel you need to do so...I don't see why anyone would fault you. However, I do agree with those that say if you really feel angry about this - the true way to show your dissatisfaction is to quit the NFL and not just FF. To use your analogy about the baby and the bathwater - it's your baby and bathwater and what you are upset with represents the baby, not the bathwater. Throwing out the bathwater seems...empty and without much point. The NFL doesn't make any money directly off FF. It certainly helps market the product and improve the breadth and depths by which the sport is covered. But FF is an industry onto itself now (as evidenced by this site and others like it). Not that one mans actions would be felt in this scenario, but if your dissatisfaction is with a product - then boycott that product...not it's by-product.Like I said before, it's certainly your prerogative and if you think by taking a leave you can be re-energized about the NFL - then by all means.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Do whatever. There's nothing to back up your thoughts on things but your perception. What arrests this offseason killed your interest? You're going to do whatever you're going to do and you'll find some way to justify things even though your basis isn't nearly as powerful as you seem to think.

Again, as I asked before - what do you consider bad guys? If you're quitting because of all the arrests then I think we can assume these jailbirds are the ones you consider to be a "bad seed" that have lead to your fantasy football vacation.

As you agreed with an earlier poster, bad guys win your leagues? Really? Let's take a look at the top 20 at each position.

1 Tom Brady

2 Peyton Manning

3 Tony Romo

4 Drew Brees

5 Ben Roethlisberger

6 Carson Palmer

7 Matt Hasselbeck

8 Jay Cutler

9 Donovan McNabb

10 Eli Manning

11 David Garrard

12 Aaron Rodgers

13 Marc Bulger

14 Philip Rivers

15 Jason Campbell

16 Vince Young

17 Derek Anderson

18 Matt Schaub

19 Jon Kitna

20 Jake Delhomme

Who are the bad guys on that list? Vince Young because he's been pictured partying? That's all I can think of.

How about the running backs?

1 LaDainian Tomlinson

2 Adrian Peterson

3 Brian Westbrook

4 Steven Jackson

5 Joseph Addai

6 Marion Barber III

7 Frank Gore

8 Clinton Portis

9 Larry Johnson

10 Ryan Grant

11 Maurice Jones-Drew

12 Willis McGahee

13 Marshawn Lynch

14 Jamal Lewis

15 Ronnie Brown

16 Brandon Jacobs

17 Edgerrin James

18 Willie Parker

19 Reggie Bush

20 LenDale White

Jamal Lewis has been arrested and served time in prison. Reggie Bush got money in college. Uhm...Larry Johnson seems to be a bit of a dope. Who are the bad guys on this list?

1 Randy Moss

2 Reggie Wayne

3 Terrell Owens

4 Larry Fitzgerald

5 Andre Johnson

6 Chad Johnson

7 Braylon Edwards

8 T.J. Houshmandzadeh

9 Steve Smith

10 Torry Holt

11 Marques Colston

12 Plaxico Burress

13 Anquan Boldin

14 Santonio Holmes

15 Calvin Johnson

16 Brandon Marshall

17 Wes Welker

18 Dwayne Bowe

19 Roy Williams

20 Roddy White

Randy Moss had a run in with a meter maid, smoked (smokes) pot, T.O. is a headcase who doesn't get in trouble with the law, works hard and gives 100% on every play on the field. Chad Johnson is a loudmouth and a problem on a team that has historically been one of the worst franchises there are and a team that has driven numerous high quality talents from the franchise. That leaves us with the only guy who I believe is an actual bad guy on this list...Brandon Marshall. He's a bad seed/player/person there's no question about that.

These are the guys that will win you your league. Out of the 30 players listed, how many do you consider a bad guy? You can easily pass on the one or two you don't care for and can still win your league.

But again, continue with your nonsense reasoning for why you're not going to play. If you wanted to stop playing because you were simply burned out then I'd say congratulations, enjoy the time off. As far as there being thugs everywhere? As I posted earlier, there are a LOT more good guys in the league than there are bad guys.

 

[monessen]

I never said bad guys. I said "bad boys." And I used the phrase in quotation marks for a reason. The context had to do with who the perceived "good guys" were in the league and that the media likes to play up the "bad boys" mentality because that what gets plenty of coverage. If you go back and check those words in that intended context, I didn't necessarily get into player arrests. I was looking at ones who are willing to break some team rules or be obtrusive in some way in order to get attention. However, I don't think I'm alone in hearing about the police blotter year after year and not getting tired of it. Maybe you aren't at that saturation point yet.

As far as your top 20s go, you are strictly going with skill position players, which is the core of fantasy rosters, and probably why you went with those lists. Those guys don't tend to be quite as violent as defensive players, though I could pick at some of your names up there and tell you Steve Smith, Santonio Holmes, and Reggie Bush are not saints, except for Bush who is a Saint, though his issues go back to college. The skill position guys are more of the ego type. Have you known many players to crave attention to the degree where they wear the Spanish translation of their number on their backs?

I'm not doubting that there are more "good guys" in the league, but it's not the guy who shows up for OTAs that makes the papers, it's a sulking Plaxico Burress. Such characters end up being the faces of the league, for better or worse.

 

[comfortably numb]

 

[fatness]

Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb were hard-living, roughhouse types.

You're kidding, right? Would you call the exact same behavior by todays players the same thing?

In spring training in 1907, Cobb, considered a racist by many, fought a black groundskeeper over the condition of the Tigers' spring training field in Augusta, Ga., and ended up choking the man's wife when she intervened.

In New York he went into the stands after a heckling fan called him names. He punched, kicked and stomped the fan, who was missing one hand and part of the other because of a workplace accident. AL president Ban Johnson suspended Cobb.

ESPN

 

[monessen]

www.profootballtalk.com/turd-watch/police-blotter/

I'd like to let the thread die, and hope you do likewise. This is my final post on it, for the sanity of all involved. Check out the link above. If it doesn't work, since a certain 4-letter word may not go through, the PFT website will take you there.

And let's be glad Ty Cobb was on no one's fantasy team back in the day. The lesson I take from stories like Cobb's is that certain NFL athletes haven't always learned from the past. Adios!

 

[lod01]

Assorted thoughts---

Someone told me to "be a man." Another said I was trying to be a martyr. I can't reconcile that. Being a man in the context expressed is to imply that some resolve and fortitude ought to be displayed. Martyrs tend to exhibit those traits; they go out and fall on the sword. Of course, they're not always men. Joan of Arc comes to mind. I'm happy to be a man but am not attempting to be a martyr---just taking a break from fantasy 2008. Am not trying to persuade people not to play. But if someone doesn't think it takes guts (and probably some stupidity) to go on a fantasy football website to say he's taking a hiatus from the game, someone isn't being fair.

.

.

.

........

WOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!Oh wait that was 'To be the man, you got to beat the man'.

Odds you are in a league come Sept.: 99%

 

[Lauryn]

if nothing else, because he keeps egging the post on. he can't even stay away from the forum, is he really going to stay away from FF?like someone said earlier... leave if you want, you won't be missed.

 

[mdog1967]

Not that there haven't always been arrests, incidents, etc., in the NFL over the years, but this past off-season has really gotten to me. I don't know if anyone else has been similarly and especially disgusted.Yes, it is a violent sport and it isn't played by cub scouts. But the thugs, or what Chuck Noll used to call the "criminal element," now rule the league. And it isn't just troublemakers. There are scores of players whose enormous egos are such that you cannot root for them, even if they play for your favorite team or you own them in your fantasy league. I'm sick of the domestic violence, the gunplay, the DUI car-wrecks, the club fights at 3 am, the drugs, denials about cheating, and everything else that spin control player-agents try to minimize, while teams' front offices claim to be "gathering information" about the incident in question. Kudos to teams like the Bears for dumping Benson.I've played fantasy sports for 9 years and don't consider myself a baby or a wuss, though I'm opening myself to such criticism with this message. So be it, and good luck this year to you. But I'm not going to be cheering for anyone who fathered 9 kids with 9 women in 2008. Or staying up past midnight to see if some arrogant creep finally scored a TD and celebrated like a Super Bowl win. helping me topple my opponent that week.

If it makes you sleep better than good for you. I think the criminal element has always been there. In the past many incidents got swept under the rug by the local bubba Cop, Judge and Mayor. You should give some applause that today folks just are not going to put up with it because your a big celebrity. I am not sure that there is anymore going on today or not but I do believe folks don't like people getting away with it anymore.I would do what makes you happy, for me my moral compass ain't pegged enough to keep me from playing.

 

[cacksman]

Not that there haven't always been arrests, incidents, etc., in the NFL over the years, but this past off-season has really gotten to me. I don't know if anyone else has been similarly and especially disgusted.

Yes, it is a violent sport and it isn't played by cub scouts. But the thugs, or what Chuck Noll used to call the "criminal element," now rule the league. And it isn't just troublemakers. There are scores of players whose enormous egos are such that you cannot root for them, even if they play for your favorite team or you own them in your fantasy league.

I'm sick of the domestic violence, the gunplay, the DUI car-wrecks, the club fights at 3 am, the drugs, denials about cheating, and everything else that spin control player-agents try to minimize, while teams' front offices claim to be "gathering information" about the incident in question. Kudos to teams like the Bears for dumping Benson.

I've played fantasy sports for 9 years and don't consider myself a baby or a wuss, though I'm opening myself to such criticism with this message. So be it, and good luck this year to you. But I'm not going to be cheering for anyone who fathered 9 kids with 9 women in 2008. Or staying up past midnight to see if some arrogant creep finally scored a TD and celebrated like a Super Bowl win. helping me topple my opponent that week.

 

[chris1969]

I've often wondered if pro athletes are fairly generalized as being thugs or are perhaps just a microcosm of society. With 32 NFL teams and between 55-80 players on a team at any given time you have between 1800-2600 players in the league at any given time. Really 1-2 arrests per day out of that population doesn't seem bad to me...Most of these guys are between the ages of 22-28. I wonder if you profiled 1800 men with similar demographics if you'd have roughly the same percentage of thugs & criminals or if leagues like the NFL are bound to have a higher % of thugs because of the large piles of money and free time many of these young men occupy.

1% of the US population is incarcerated in jail:http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/kho...s.53f256a0.html

With 53-man rosters, there are ~1,700 NFL players every season.

To hold to the national average, 17 would have to be jailed, which isn't even close. I'm not even sure that that many are arrested in a season (though it might be close or higher).

Actually, your right. It isn't even close, but in the opposite direction you think it is. As far as arrests go, check out PFT and the Lions alone have 30 arrests. Tennessee has 25 and the Eagles and Broncos each have 22. That's just from an 1st of the year!It's hard to name a 1/2 dozen teams that don't have at least 1 player in jail. Not to mention the guys that buy themselves out of jail! OJ, don't take your arthritis medicine. It won't fit and they will acquit. I still believe that as bad as it is now, these same guys would do worse on the streets if the NFL didn't exist.

 

[walkwithme]

For the original poster if this hobby doesn't do it for you anymore due to any reason than you should probably sit out a season or wait for the athletes to live up to your moral standards. I hope you decide to give up the NFL as a whole and most major sports because if you dig hard enough you will find information on your favorite athletes and teams that will not live up to your standards.

 

[Novice2]

How does your leaguemates feel about you quiting on them?

Just say'n

 

[monessen]

Novice2,

If I answer your question, I'll be subjected to more criticism about keeping the thread alive. But I suppose even this reply would generate that criticism. hence the paradox.

My league mates understand; all have taken some time off certain seasons. I really just wanted to leave the thread a long while back, but people are taking their shots on my way out the door. And many are either are just redundant in their criticism, or are asking me specific questions. So it is darned if I do and darned if I don't in terms of posting. Lauryn Hill accuses that I keep egging this thread on, and I won't be missed. Well, I'd rather just GET OUT, and let others debate the criminal record part. I stand behind the PFT turd watch, and the notion that it's ok to take a hiatus when you're burned out on the game. And for those looking at top-20 lists and noting how few troublemakers are on it, please recall that guys like Vick, Ricky Williams, Koren Robinson, Onterrio Smith, and others might be on that list had they not self-destructed.

'Bye. For real this time, Lauryn Hill, et al. You needn't blow your cool. If you say "See, he's still posting." I'll read it in 2009.

 

[Truman]

The league is no different than it's always been. It's just more publicised now.

 

[switz]

Maybe William Bennett had it right in his book The Death Of Outrage. We the public have had our standards lowered over time to the point where former transgressions become tolerable. Just about anything goes, as long as no one is killed. I'm not talking about cell phones at the restaurant or rude telemarketers. I'm talking about young men who should be glad they are gifted enough to play in the NFL and then pee it away because of their hubris and inability to see anything except satisfying their egos and believing they aren't subject to consequences because of who they are. So, yes, my Shrek-character friend. I do expect more mature behavior because these players need to be held to a higher standard. They represent more than just themselves when they screw up whether they like it or not or even know that.

Herein lays the issue I have with your posts, the players are no worse today than they were 10-20-50 years ago. We just know more about it now.Do you think many of these guys are worse than Lawrence Taylor - just to name one well known example.

This is simply not true. Sure there were a few players 20-50 years ago who were hard drinking, womanizers, etc. But how many were abusing drugs? Killing people? Raping people? etc.You want to chalk it up to a lack of reporting, but reality is the entire moral fabric of society has worn thin over the past 50 years.

There were plenty abusing drugs. I don't know how many were killing people, but one of the old-timers "probably" did.

Rape - I don't know either, do you?

on the last comment. The 60's (almost 50 years ago now) was not a time of higher moral fabric.

Sorry, you're counter argument is weak. Very weak. Sure, maybe "one" player was involved in murder. But there are numerous NFL players today involved in murders. Rape? Also, numerous NFL players have been accused of, even indicted for rape. Not so much in the 50s.To say that the moral fabric is the same today means you haven't lived long enough to know the difference. Ask someone who lived in the 50s... people didn't lock their houses, alarm systems were unheard of, there were no shootings in schools. The work carjacking meant raising your car with a jack to fix a flat tire. There were some horror movies, but there wasn't the continuous stream of gruesome dissembling of bodies as entertainment. There were drugs, but it wasn't viewed as "normal" to do drugs. Teeanage pregnancy was not all that common and abortion was not viewed as an option for an upstanding person.

Were there problems then that have been fixed? Sure... racism, although still alive and well in this country, is not "accepted" anymore. Segregation by decree was done away with. Minority rights in general have been vastly improved.

For whomever said that women were beaten... yes they were, but it happens even more so today unfortunately. Children were beaten, that happens even more so today.

Yes, morals have declined. Maybe it's hard for us to face that, because it implies in some way we are at fault. Perhaps we think that greater freedom, due to less morality, is a good thing. But just because someone doesn't want to believe something is true, it doesn't make it false.

 

[Warhogs]

monessen,

I took a year off from fantasy football 6-7 years ago but for very different reasons. I was just not enjoying it anymore. Not because of the bad press on players. It had become too important in my life and for no real reason and that made it no fun anymore. I came back refreshed and with a bit of a different view of things. I now enjoy it again.

I'm just curious what you are planning to do with the added time. I hate to keep the post alive but I would find this information interesting.

 

[fatness]

To say that the moral fabric is the same today means you haven't lived long enough to know the difference. Ask someone who lived in the 50s.

I don't need to ask anyone. I grew up them. Unless you did too, stop pretending to be the expert on those times. You're off base in your rosy picture of those times. You may be just repeating or embellishing what you've been told or what you read or what you'd like to believe.Women got beaten, the police seldom came, and when they did it led to a "stern talk" and nothing else. Kids got beaten and nobody spoke of it. Parents got drunk and kids grew up afraid of them. Black kids got beaten in schools. Jewish kids got beaten in schools. Not one word of any of this was in the newspaper or on TV or on the radio. Dirty secrets that everyone knew and no one spoke of. There was no internet, with the resulting anonymity to report anything, true or false. On the flip side, within homogeneous communities and schools, things seemed quite comfy and safe. You could leave your keys in the car, you knew your neighbors because everyone lived there a long time and was "known". Neither you nor I know about teen pregnancies or abortions then. Those things were just never, never spoken of even in secret. Girls just dropped out of school and never were seen again. Today everything is reported, whether it happened or not. And people gravitate to news of what's wrong, and believe that it's somehow overwhelming the world. It's not, any more than it ever did. People believe the world is in moral decline. My parents believed this. Their parents believed this. That's more a statement of personal exasperation than it is any kind of objective comparison. I'm old enough to see that.

 

[AnonymousBob]

monessen,

What was the point of this thread? Why did you think we'd care that you are inexplicably holding athletes to some high moral standard? You're quitting. Good for you. PM me your address and I'll mail you a gold star.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

monessen,

What was the point of this thread? Why did you think we'd care that you are inexplicably holding athletes to some high moral standard? You're quitting. Good for you. PM me your address and I'll mail you a gold star.

With gold about $940 an ounce, I'd condsider retiring depending on the weight of the star.