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Anti-Fascist (resistance movement) are ummmm......Fascist (1 Viewer)

J

jon_mx

Footballguy
Aren't leftist embarrassed that the violence and anti-free speech activities are coming from the left?  When CNN is pointing out the pro-Trump rally is peaceful and speaking out against hate and all the violence in Portland is happening from the leftist protesters.  At what point is the left going to realize all their hysteria (and yes, it is hysteria folks) is not helping their cause.  It must be embarrassing to see it is the Trump rally people who are the grown-ups in the room.  The left will not win the middle until they start acting mature.  

 
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jon_mx said:
Aren't leftist embarrassed that the violence and anti-free speech activities are coming from the left?  When CNN is pointing out the pro-Trump rally is peaceful and speaking out against hate and all the violence in Portland is happening from the leftist protesters.  At what point is the left going to realize all their hysteria (and yes, it is hysteria folks) is not helping their cause.  It must be embarrassing to see it is the Trump rally people who are the grown-ups in the room.  The left will not win the middle until they start acting mature.  
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Reports from Portland are that it was both alt-left (Antifa) v. alt-right groups being responsible for the violence, not just coming from the left as you claim:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/violence-erupts-in-portland-as-alt-right-anti-fascists-square-off_us_5932c1ebe4b075bff0f3dc8c

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/04/portland-oregon-alt-right-rally-antifa

And the anti-fascist Antifa group is as representative of the left as the Westboro Baptist Church is representative of the right.

 
jon_mx said:
That is how CNN is reporting it.  
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:no:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/04/us/portland-protests/

The many extremes of Portland collide in protest

Tensions continued to build one week after a deadly stabbing in Portland, Oregon, as large crowds gathered downtown Sunday for dueling protests.

Read More

Hundreds of supporters of US President Donald Trump converged on Terry D. Schrunk Plaza for a rally billed by organizers as a "Trump Free Speech" demonstration. They were slightly outnumbered by a mixed assemblage of counterprotesters across the street led by a group of self-described anti-fascists who viewed the free speech rally as a promotion of racism.

The groups were separated by a wall of heavily armed officers from local and federal police agencies in protective body armor. At least two people were arrested shortly after the demonstrations began, Portland Police said without providing details. [...]

 
squistion said:
:no:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/04/us/portland-protests/

The many extremes of Portland collide in protest

Tensions continued to build one week after a deadly stabbing in Portland, Oregon, as large crowds gathered downtown Sunday for dueling protests.

Read More

Hundreds of supporters of US President Donald Trump converged on Terry D. Schrunk Plaza for a rally billed by organizers as a "Trump Free Speech" demonstration. They were slightly outnumbered by a mixed assemblage of counterprotesters across the street led by a group of self-described anti-fascists who viewed the free speech rally as a promotion of racism.

The groups were separated by a wall of heavily armed officers from local and federal police agencies in protective body armor. At least two people were arrested shortly after the demonstrations began, Portland Police said without providing details. [...]
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The people throwing rocks and bricks and balloons filled with stinky liquids are ALL coming from the protesters from the left.  

 
Homer J Simpson said:
So AntiFa is an accurate representation of the left in your eyes, jon?

Get a clue, dude.
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Exactly. And AntiFa has been roundly condemned by nearly everyone on the left - In fact, I can't recall even one member of Congress, Senate, DNC or even Democrats on the state/local level who have expressed any approval or support for what these anarchists are doing.

 
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Homer J Simpson said:
So AntiFa is an accurate representation of the left in your eyes, jon?

Get a clue, dude.
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The problem is these anti fascist are successfully able to infiltrate the protests and become the voice of the left.  The leftist protestors are having their message hi-jacked, and are doing way to little to stop it.  The lefts hatred of Trump is providing both empathy for this movement and encouraging it.  Your anti-Trump message is getting drowned out by these violent thugs, and the difference to the public between the rhetoric is not all that distinguishable.  A decapitated Trump, no big deal.  Except that maybe there are thousands of nuts who take it seriously. 

 
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jon_mx said:
The problem is these anti fascist are successfully able to infiltrate the protests and become the voice of the left.  The leftist protestors are having their message hi-jacked, and are doing way to little to stop it.  The lefts hatred of Trump is providing both empathy for this movement and encouraging it.  Your anti-Trump message is getting drowned out by these violent thugs, and the difference to the public between the rhetoric is not distinguishable.  
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They. Are. Not. The. Voice. Of. The. Left.

 
Dedfin said:
jon_mx said:
Aren't leftist embarrassed that the violence and anti-free speech activities are coming from the left?  
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You mean besides the guy that stabbed and killed 2 people?  Trumpkin.
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The Portland killer is a straight up whackjob, nothing more. He may have showed support for Trump, but he also was known to have claimed to support both Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein (and he was a registered Libertarian), along with supporting lots of crazy fringe stuff that has nothing to do with any political party. Linking him to Trump is tenuous at best, IMO.

 
Chaka said:
When will people realize this isn't a binary situation?
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I need to drive this home a little more. @jon_mx, sorry to call you out personally but it's your thread so...y'know, I have seen you post enough over the years and I know you are more than intelligent enough to be are aware of how stupid it is to try and paint this as simply being a "left" situation and holding the entire "left" responsible.  We could spend years, and have, pointing to examples from the "left" or "right" demonstrating whatever point either positive or negative we want to paint an entire population with but the reality is, and we all know it, that: 1) there is no binary "left" or "right" and 2) whatever issue we are desperately trying to use as the wedge between that 1 & 0 is causing far more harm than good. You are not converting anyone and only driving the wedges between us further.  Frankly I find it reckless and irresponsible and it needs to stop.  It is coming to a head and it is threatening the Republic that I am pretty sure you truly want to stand.

Here is a small example of how this binary mentality misses the point entirely: There are a large segment of democrats who own guns and are members of the NRA, there are large segments of republican gun owners who are support reasonable gun controls. But in our daily lives it has become "You're a democrat so you hate guns and want the Government to confiscate my guns!" and "You're a republican so you want to shoot anyone who looks at you crosswise with an RPG!" The absurdity of that should be obvious, but it isn't anymore. People follow the path of least resistance an hold onto the simplest fallacy.

Here is a personal example of where this mentality prevents people from seeing reality: I am certain that the very small number of people at FBG who have read and remembered enough of my posting history since...geez 2003 I think; don't believe that I have been a registered Republican my entire voting life. Here is my voting history:

1988: George HW Bush

1992: George HW Bush

1996: Ross Perot

2000: George W Bush

2004: I honestly don't remember. This is where I first became truly disillusioned with my party. I felt W betrayed me by invading Iraq when I believed, correctly, that Afghanistan was the hotbed of the terrorist threat against America and if we were going to start sending troops abroad that is where our focus should have been.

2008: John McCain

2012: Ron Paul

2016: Hillary Clinton (It hurt to do this on so many levels I can't even begin to explain).

That's God's truth right there. At worst I had been an occasional wide-eyed small government libertarian but in 2016 I saw, what I perceive to be a legitimate threat to our Republic and I put nation over party. I don't like Hillary but I saw her as being about as dangerous to the Republic as Paul Ryan, who I would have voted for before Hillary or Trump (although my opinion of Ryan has changed dramatically over the past 120 days) How many of you ( @jon_mx, @MaxThreshold, @HellToupee, etc) believe me?  Be honest, I won't be offended.

So we are sitting around failing to recognize that we have far more in common than what divides us and we spend the majority of our time fighting each over over whatever singular issue that is driving the day and all the time we are losing sight of the people who are driving these wedges between us and stealing our Republic from us. And the fact that it has become such a binary left/right situation has put us in a position where we actually could lose the very freedoms that allow us to have these fights in the first place.

We should be uniting against common threats instead of bickering over whether the sky is teal or aquamarine. I guarantee you that if you were transported from 1780 or 1980 directly into 2017 we would be united together against what is happening today.

But, please go back to bickering over how a group of violent college students, or an insane racist who went stabby/murdery represents an entire massive segment of our population.

Have fun in the gulag. I will be waiting for you happily telling you how I told you so.

 
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Chaka said:
When will people realize this isn't a binary situation?
Click to expand...
In this case it was binary as there were two competing rallies.  Each side needs to be responsible for how it's members react.  I was not grouping all leftists as violent.  If you want to complain about over generalizing people into groups, I would suggest visiting the Trump-haters threads.  Not that it doesn't happen elsewhere, but those are the worst. 

Now my criticism here is that the leftist group ahead of time realized those anti-fascist were going to bring the violence, but did not do enough to prevent it or try to separate themselves from it with a clear message of being peaceful.  Right or wrong the whole group is going to be cast as violent.  The right in this case in particular, did  a much better job with their protest at getting the message out about behaving.  

At sone point the left needs to realize when you spew a bunch of hateful rhetoric, you are going to fuel a hateful and violent movement.  

 
The left is responsible for all the hateful rhetoric.

JFC

What ####### country do you live in?

Donald Trump won the Presidency by running a campaign of fear and hate mongering. He appealed to the lowest of instincts of voters across the country. He blamed large swaths of people as being the cause of everyone's problems. We need bans on Muslims. We need to build the wall. Etc etc etc.

And now you're trying to defend this dooshbag by saying a few morons on the left are representative of this imaginary hate filled left?

Incredible.

 
skycriesmary said:
No, that's about right, both ridiculous comparisons.
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Let me point you out just a few differences.  The Westboro folks are just a small inbreeded group who protest by themselves and are denounced by everyone.   These anti-fascist rhetoric matches those of the Trump-haters and they protest along with the left.  The left needs to weed these folks out or continue to be branded by them.  

 
cap'n grunge said:
The left is responsible for all the hateful rhetoric.

JFC

What ####### country do you live in?

Donald Trump won the Presidency by running a campaign of fear and hate mongering. He appealed to the lowest of instincts of voters across the country. He blamed large swaths of people as being the cause of everyone's problems. We need bans on Muslims. We need to build the wall. Etc etc etc.

And now you're trying to defend this dooshbag by saying a few morons on the left are representative of this imaginary hate filled left?

Incredible.
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The bad thing is the left is coming off even worse than the Donald because of the violent acts.  Own it and do something about it or risk getting eight years of Trump. 

 
jon_mx said:
The bad thing is the left is coming off even worse than the Donald because of the violent acts.  Own it and do something about it or risk getting eight years of Trump. 
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This could happen because the voters that are progressives have higher principles, so if faced with the decision of voting for someone who represents violence will either vote 3rd party or just stay home, while voters that are conservatives lack these principles and understand that any means justifies their ends, so Republican votes always stay with the party.  In many senses, Democrats and Republicans operate by very different rules.  We've seen this in Montana recently.  We saw it in the 2016 election.  We will see it again.  Whether it's enough to win the next set of elections we will see, but it is absolutely certain those that vote for Republican do not care about decency, the promotion of violence, or much of anything else.  The important thing is to get the seat occupied by an (R).  So yeah, I agree with you.  8 years of Trump could very well happen.

 
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Dedfin said:
This could happen because the voters that are progressives have higher principles, so if faced with the decision of voting for someone who represents violence will either vote 3rd party or just stay home, while voters that are conservatives lack these principles and understand that any means justifies their ends, so Republican votes always stay with the party.  In many senses, Democrats and Republicans operate by very different rules.  We've seen this in Montana recently.  We saw it in the 2016 election.  We will see it again.  Whether it's enough to win the next set of elections we will see, but it is absolutely certain those that vote for Republican do not care about decency, the promotion of violence, or much of anything else.  The important thing is to get the seat occupied by an (R).  So yeah, I agree with you.  8 years of Trump could very well happen.
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:lol:  whatever there sport  

 
Part fight club, part Western-pride fraternity, the Alt-Knights and similar groups recruit battalions of mainly young white men for one-off confrontations with their ideological enemies — the black-clad left-wing militants who disrupted President Trump’s inauguration and have protested against the appearances of conservative speakers on college campuses.

Along with like-minded groups like the Proud Boys, a clan of young conservative nationalists, and the Oath Keepers, an organization of current and former law-enforcement officers and military veterans, they mobilized on social media to fight in New Orleans over the removal of Confederate monuments; on the streets of Berkeley, Calif., where clashes between the left and right have increasingly become a threat for law enforcement; and at a raucous May Day rally in Los Angeles.

Both sides have issued a call to arms this weekend for an event being billed as a “Trump Free Speech Rally” in Portland, Ore., which is already on edge after a man was charged in the murder of two people who tried to intercede last week as he hurled anti-Islamic insults at two women on a train. “This is a war,” declared the Proud Boys’ founder, Gavin McInnes, in a column this week.
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“These are new people to us,” said Heidi Beirich, the Intelligence Project director for the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks extremist movements.  Typically, the far-right groups they study will demonstrate but avoid confrontation, acting in a “defensive crouch,” she added.

“But saying, ‘We’re going to show up and we’re intending to get in fights,’ that’s a new thing,” Ms. Beirich said.

Some groups like the Proud Boys have initiation rituals that include violent hazing and require an oath of fealty to Western culture. Their followers thrive on hyper-masculinity and celebrate when one of their brethren hits a leftist agitator. They mock Islam and purport to be soldiers against a “war on Whites,” while being mindful not to embrace overt white supremacy. Roger J. Stone Jr., a longtime associate of Mr. Trump’s, has taken the Proud Boy oath.

The Alt-Knights were initially conceived as a paramilitary wing of the Proud Boys, designed to provide protection for audiences listening to conservative speakers like Ann Coulter and Milo Yiannopoulos, whose public events have been canceled because of threats of violence.

The groups openly post on Facebook and Twitter to spout Islamophobic and anti-immigrant speech, recruit new members and mobilize followers to go to demonstrations where violence might erupt, taking advantage of the porous standards that social media companies set for offensive and violent speech.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/us/politics/white-nationalists-alt-knights-protests-colleges.html

 
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