Are ACL injuries no longer a killer the next season? (1 Viewer)

[trader jake]

Edit to add:

CLE WR Braylon Edwards

TEN WR Brandon Jones

CHI WR Mark Bradley

NE DB Rodney Harrison

DAL OL Flozell Adams

-------------------------

MIA QB Daunte Culpepper

CIN QB Carson Palmer

NO RB Deuce McAllister

DEN WR Javon Walker

CPepp hasn't play well so far, Carson is playing effectively way ahead of schedule while Deuce and Javon have looked better than many projected. McAllister and Walker suffered their injuries early in the season and were expected to be back to start the year while Culpepper's injury was so bad that his return to start the year was a bit of a surprise. Palmer playing from week 1 on is just crazy considering he suffered his injury in the playoffs.

Had medical technology advanced to the point where players who suffer ACL injuries can be reasonably expected to return to form the following year? What other players suffered ACL injuries last season?

 

[SteelerMurf]

Daunte CulpepperCarson PalmerDeuce McAllisterJavon WalkerCPepp hasn't play well so far, Carson is playing effectively way ahead of schedule while Deuce and Javon have looked better than many projected. McAllister and Walker suffered their injuries early in the season and were expected to be back to start the year while Culpepper's injury was so bad that his return to start the year was a bit of a surprise. Palmer playing from week 1 on is just crazy considering he suffered his injury in the playoffs.Had medical technology advanced to the point where players who suffer ACL injuries can be reasonably expected to return to form the following year? What other players suffered ACL injuries last season?

You are about 50/50 on that list. Deuce hasn't missed a step and neither has Walker. But nobody can say Palmer and Culpepper are playing with their normal confidence or mobility. I think their injuries were later in the year than the others so that may be a factor too.

 

[Sigfawn]

Daunte CulpepperCarson PalmerDeuce McAllisterJavon WalkerCPepp hasn't play well so far, Carson is playing effectively way ahead of schedule while Deuce and Javon have looked better than many projected. McAllister and Walker suffered their injuries early in the season and were expected to be back to start the year while Culpepper's injury was so bad that his return to start the year was a bit of a surprise. Palmer playing from week 1 on is just crazy considering he suffered his injury in the playoffs.Had medical technology advanced to the point where players who suffer ACL injuries can be reasonably expected to return to form the following year? What other players suffered ACL injuries last season?

You are about 50/50 on that list. Deuce hasn't missed a step and neither has Walker. But nobody can say Palmer and Culpepper are playing with their normal confidence or mobility. I think their injuries were later in the year than the others so that may be a factor too.

Deuce has missed a step. He's not nearly as fast or explosive. Bush is helping to keep him fresh. Deuce will not smell 300 carries. On pace for 240, probably ends up near low 200s.Walker got hurt very early. He looks good. Palmer does not look normal.Cpepp does not look normal.So 1 of 4, and he was hurt the earliest. I still say it's about the same.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Add Braylon Edwards and Brandon Jones to the list. Both look close to, or even at, 2005 form. Mark Bradley has not been as fortunate.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

Daunte CulpepperCarson PalmerDeuce McAllisterJavon WalkerCPepp hasn't play well so far, Carson is playing effectively way ahead of schedule while Deuce and Javon have looked better than many projected. McAllister and Walker suffered their injuries early in the season and were expected to be back to start the year while Culpepper's injury was so bad that his return to start the year was a bit of a surprise. Palmer playing from week 1 on is just crazy considering he suffered his injury in the playoffs.Had medical technology advanced to the point where players who suffer ACL injuries can be reasonably expected to return to form the following year? What other players suffered ACL injuries last season?

You are about 50/50 on that list. Deuce hasn't missed a step and neither has Walker. But nobody can say Palmer and Culpepper are playing with their normal confidence or mobility. I think their injuries were later in the year than the others so that may be a factor too.

Deuce has missed a step. He's not nearly as fast or explosive. Bush is helping to keep him fresh. Deuce will not smell 300 carries. On pace for 240, probably ends up near low 200s.Walker got hurt very early. He looks good. Palmer does not look normal.Cpepp does not look normal.So 1 of 4, and he was hurt the earliest. I still say it's about the same.

Deuce is averaging almost 5 yards per carry and has looked pretty freakin' good when busting off long runs. Palmer doesn't look normal, but he looks decent, certainly capable of starting.CPepp doesn't look normal - as traderjake acknowledged above, CPepp had a pretty severe injury, WAY beyond a normal ACL.[edited because Bloom beat me to the punch on Braylon]

 

[The Jerk]

Daunte CulpepperCarson PalmerDeuce McAllisterJavon WalkerCPepp hasn't play well so far, Carson is playing effectively way ahead of schedule while Deuce and Javon have looked better than many projected. McAllister and Walker suffered their injuries early in the season and were expected to be back to start the year while Culpepper's injury was so bad that his return to start the year was a bit of a surprise. Palmer playing from week 1 on is just crazy considering he suffered his injury in the playoffs.Had medical technology advanced to the point where players who suffer ACL injuries can be reasonably expected to return to form the following year? What other players suffered ACL injuries last season?

You are about 50/50 on that list. Deuce hasn't missed a step and neither has Walker. But nobody can say Palmer and Culpepper are playing with their normal confidence or mobility. I think their injuries were later in the year than the others so that may be a factor too.

Deuce has missed a step. He's not nearly as fast or explosive. Bush is helping to keep him fresh. Deuce will not smell 300 carries. On pace for 240, probably ends up near low 200s.Walker got hurt very early. He looks good. Palmer does not look normal.Cpepp does not look normal.So 1 of 4, and he was hurt the earliest. I still say it's about the same.

I agree with the 1 out of 4, although it's possible Palmer's problems are more related to non-physical aspects of his recovery (compounded by injuries and ineffectiveness on his OL).Medical technology constantly improves, but their are still limits set by human physiology.

 

[cormanman]

While not related to the QBs listed above, in Dallas Flozell Adams is actually one of the better tackels in the league (or at least he was). He is clearly not back to 100% from his ACL tear in week 6 of last season. His lateral quickness is clearly impaired.

I think players can get back up and around sooner, but I still think that most are not back to 100% until at least 18 months later. All that said, it seems that most players get back to 75% faster than they used to.

 

[trader jake]

So what matters most: severity of the injury, what part of the season the injury occurs in, the position they play, age, other?

The quarterbacks have been slower to recover while the RB's and WR's (who would seem to be more effected by a knee injury) are having relative success coming back.

 

[ATC1]

So what matters most: severity of the injury, what part of the season the injury occurs in, the position they play, age, other?The quarterbacks have been slower to recover while the RB's and WR's (who would seem to be more effected by a knee injury) are having relative success coming back.

Palmer had what's called an unhappy triad in which the MCL, ACL and miniscus is damaged. I think he looks incredible from that type of injury late in the playoffs.Culpepper's injury was actually the ACL, PCL and MCL. 3 of the 4 ligaments, so basically his knee was held together by one ligament, and skin. I was amazed that he was able to play at the begining of the season, but soon saw that he was not ready to come back at all.Deuce, Walker, Edwards looks great. I don't think it's the surgery getting tons better, but the medical staff getting familiar with the protocal and what to expect from this type of injury. All the things mentioned above takes into factor. Of all the guys the last guy I thought I would see playing this season is Rodney Harrison. He had a multiple ligament tear, he is old, plays the position were quick reaction and cuts are needed the most, but he has great work ethic.

 

[trader jake]

Of all the guys the last guy I thought I would see playing this season is Rodney Harrison. He had a multiple ligament tear, he is old, plays the position were quick reaction and cuts are needed the most, but he has great work ethic.

I'm beginning to believe that wotk ethic is is the most important variable with an ACL rehab. When I read that Culpepper was yapping more about his contract than his rehab I wrote him off this season. I guess running in a WalMart parking lot didn't do the trick after all.

 

[jonessed]

Of all the guys the last guy I thought I would see playing this season is Rodney Harrison. He had a multiple ligament tear, he is old, plays the position were quick reaction and cuts are needed the most, but he has great work ethic.

I'm beginning to believe that wotk ethic is is the most important variable with an ACL rehab. When I read that Culpepper was yapping more about his contract than his rehab I wrote him off this season. I guess running in a WalMart parking lot didn't do the trick after all.

I think this says a lot about Brees and his injury. The guy has a positive attitude and an amazing work ethic. For him to come back and lead the Saints to 5-1 after a major injury to his throwing shoulder shows a lot of determination.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Of all the guys the last guy I thought I would see playing this season is Rodney Harrison. He had a multiple ligament tear, he is old, plays the position were quick reaction and cuts are needed the most, but he has great work ethic.

I'm beginning to believe that wotk ethic is is the most important variable with an ACL rehab. When I read that Culpepper was yapping more about his contract than his rehab I wrote him off this season. I guess running in a WalMart parking lot didn't do the trick after all.

I think this says a lot about Brees and his injury. The guy has a positive attitude and an amazing work ethic. For him to come back and lead the Saints to 5-1 after a major injury to his throwing shoulder shows a lot of determination.

Not to hijack to the Brees/shoulder issue, but what makes Brees performance (physically) even more impressive is that Miami chose C-pep over Brees because they thought Brees carried more physical risk. My guess is that they would like a do over on that one.

 

[culdeus]

Of all the guys the last guy I thought I would see playing this season is Rodney Harrison. He had a multiple ligament tear, he is old, plays the position were quick reaction and cuts are needed the most, but he has great work ethic.

I'm beginning to believe that wotk ethic is is the most important variable with an ACL rehab. When I read that Culpepper was yapping more about his contract than his rehab I wrote him off this season. I guess running in a WalMart parking lot didn't do the trick after all.

Yes and No. When you tear your ACL they give you usually two options. You can get the uber mega strong ACL or you can splice in some other tissue (usually hip muscle) and it will be weaker. The strong ligament is from a dead person (usually) and requires an extrodinary amount of rehab to make it "come alive" again. Pro athletes always opt for the stronger one as it in many ways is superior to the one you are born with except for the small issue of the fact that it is stiff as hell. Alot of times if you don't rehab it right or the surgery doesn't go well they have to put you back under anesthesia and do some extreme stretches on your knee to get it tracked right or loosened up. So most of the time it's not always rehab, but mostly good luck whether you get a "good one" or not.

 

[Otis]

My GB Righetti has been talking about starting this exact same thread for a couple weeks now. We came to the same conclusion at a bar one night.

 

[ATC1]

Of all the guys the last guy I thought I would see playing this season is Rodney Harrison. He had a multiple ligament tear, he is old, plays the position were quick reaction and cuts are needed the most, but he has great work ethic.

I'm beginning to believe that wotk ethic is is the most important variable with an ACL rehab. When I read that Culpepper was yapping more about his contract than his rehab I wrote him off this season. I guess running in a WalMart parking lot didn't do the trick after all.

Yes and No. When you tear your ACL they give you usually two options. You can get the uber mega strong ACL or you can splice in some other tissue (usually hip muscle) and it will be weaker. The strong ligament is from a dead person (usually) and requires an extrodinary amount of rehab to make it "come alive" again. Pro athletes always opt for the stronger one as it in many ways is superior to the one you are born with except for the small issue of the fact that it is stiff as hell. Alot of times if you don't rehab it right or the surgery doesn't go well they have to put you back under anesthesia and do some extreme stretches on your knee to get it tracked right or loosened up. So most of the time it's not always rehab, but mostly good luck whether you get a "good one" or not.

I think most of the time it has to do with the rehab and not the surgery. There can be problems wit the surgery, but we are talking about the highest regaurded othropedic doctors doing surgery on professional athletes. They must perform the same surgery hundreds of times. Usually if someone needs t be put under for manipulation it's because of severe scar tissue or uncontrolable swelling as the result of a not so aggressive rehab. The swelling could be caused from meniscus damage that was not fixed during the surgery. Either way the knee would get scoped first to clean out the scar tissue or fix the miniscus damage.

 

[Callas Disregard]

Edit to add:CLE WR Braylon EdwardsTEN WR Brandon JonesCHI WR Mark BradleyNE DB Rodney HarrisonDAL OL Flozell Adams-------------------------MIA QB Daunte CulpepperCIN QB Carson PalmerNO RB Deuce McAllisterDEN WR Javon WalkerHad medical technology advanced to the point where players who suffer ACL injuries can be reasonably expected to return to form the following year? What other players suffered ACL injuries last season?

There's one critical point that no one's mentioned. How many RBs are on that list? I only see one. ACLs are much more important to RBs than to other positions. Deuce certainly has lost a step this year.

 

[Righetti]

My GB Righetti has been talking about starting this exact same thread for a couple weeks now. We came to the same conclusion at a bar one night.

maybe both threads can be mergedsame topic from a few weeks ago

I was updating it after every week to see how far along they have come

week 1

Culpepper: 18/262/0 2 picks 3/8/0 rushing

Palmer: 13/126/0

Deuce: 22/90/0

Javon: 3/41/0

Braylon 2/23/0

week 2

Culpepper 23/250/1 1 pick 1/7/0 rushing

Palmer 24/352/2 plus 2 picks

Deuce 12/47/2 plus 1/24

javon 5/79/0 2/21/0 rushing

Braylon 4/110/0

week 3

Culpepper: 17/168/0 6/5/1 rushing

Palmer 18/193/4 2 int

Deuce 19/81/0 4/13

javon 3/130/2

Braylon 5/116/1

week 4

Braylon goes 6/75/0

Javon on a bye

Culpepper 23/249/1 0/0/0 rushing

Palmer 20/245/0

Deuce 11/39/1 plus 1/8/0

week 5

Palmer Bye

CulPepper DNP injury Shoulder

Braylon 3/27

Deuce 15/123/1 plus 1/8/0

Javon 5/63

week 6

culpepper DNP

Braylon Bye

Palmer 24/261/1

Deuce: 12/64/0 6/36

Javon 4/75/0 plus 1/29

 

[gzilla]

Deuce has missed a step. He's not nearly as fast or explosive.

I disagree with this completely. Deuce has looked more impressive this year than he has since 2003. I agree that Bush helps him. But, the knee doesn't look like it's a factor at all.I don't think anything has changed. A large portion of overcoming an ACL injury is mental. Deuce is mentally tough and that may be the largest factor.

 

[LC512]

Anyone claiming that Deuce has "lost a step" this year has either not watched him play, or needs to get their prescription checked.

He's as fast and explosive as he was in 2003. He's running with power, speed, and moves. He's a legitimate top 5 running back in the NFL at this point, just like he was in '02 and '03. It's just that he's got Reggie to take some of the load off of him.

Watch the first play of this video and tell me he's lost a step

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVL0cvS5yTw

 

[Big Score]

Yes and No. When you tear your ACL they give you usually two options. You can get the uber mega strong ACL Achilles tendon or you can splice in some other tissue (usually hip muscle) and it will be weaker. The strong ligament is from a dead person (usually) and requires an extrodinary amount of rehab to make it "come alive" again. Pro athletes always opt for the stronger one as it in many ways is superior to the one you are born with except for the small issue of the fact that it is stiff as hell.

Fixed & just as a human interest FYI, Palmer opted for an Achilles Tendon, donated to the Musculoskeletal Transplant Foundation tissue bank & frozen to -70 degrees F, or freeze dried, then stored at Baylor College of Medicine since 2004 by the late Mrs Julie De Rossi who was hit & killed by a drunk driver.

Palmer had his surgery mid / late January this year.

 

[trader jake]

Anyone claiming that Deuce has "lost a step" this year has either not watched him play, or needs to get their prescription checked.

He's as fast and explosive as he was in 2003. He's running with power, speed, and moves. He's a legitimate top 5 running back in the NFL at this point, just like he was in '02 and '03. It's just that he's got Reggie to take some of the load off of him.

Watch the first play of this video and tell me he's lost a step

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVL0cvS5yTw

I'd agree that Deuce has looked better than he did in 04 or 05 before he suffered his injury. The surrounding cast plays a large role with Deuce's success.Glad to read that Otis and Righetti are doing some of their FBG's brainstorming while drinking.

 

[Kleck.]

I have always been under the opinion that no two injuries are alike, and no two players are alike. There may be some similarities, but you really need to take each player/injury on a case by case bassis when determining recovery time.

 

[Tornacl]

Of all the guys the last guy I thought I would see playing this season is Rodney Harrison. He had a multiple ligament tear, he is old, plays the position were quick reaction and cuts are needed the most, but he has great work ethic.

I'm beginning to believe that wotk ethic is is the most important variable with an ACL rehab. When I read that Culpepper was yapping more about his contract than his rehab I wrote him off this season. I guess running in a WalMart parking lot didn't do the trick after all.

From personal experience (hence the name), I couldn't agree more.Personally, I think that CPepp's agility and mobility had already declined considerably since entering the NFL, and that was before the knee injury. Add to that the speculation that he was more concerned with the contract than with actually being able to play well enough to justify the contract, and its no surprise to me he's been struggling.