Are the Giants the new Broncos? (1 Viewer)

[KoolKat]

Sorry if this is a Honda, I searched and didn't find anything on this.

It seems to me that the Giants O-Line and blocking scheme is the biggest factor in the recent success of their RBs. It reminds me a lot of the Denver situation. Guys like Ward, Bradshaw, Droughns, and Jacobs have all looked spectacular at times in their system, as was Barber. It appears to me that they are the new Broncos in this sense. I have a feeling that they could be the next team to have this ability to plug just about any RB in and be successful.

This is relevant to fantasy football, because I do not believe anyone should overvalue these guys due to their stats. You have to ask yourself, if Bradshaw or any of the others were on a different team, would they have the same success?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

sure seems like it, even though I didnt think their Oline was any good.

 

[Abraham]

Sorry if this is a Honda, I searched and didn't find anything on this.It seems to me that the Giants O-Line and blocking scheme is the biggest factor in the recent success of their RBs. It reminds me a lot of the Denver situation. Guys like Ward, Bradshaw, Droughns, and Jacobs have all looked spectacular at times, in their system as was Barber. It appears to me that they are the new Broncos in this sense. I have a feeling that they could be the next team to have this ability to plug just about any RB in and be successful. This is relevant to fantasy football, because I do not believe anyone should overvalue these guys due to their stats. You have to ask yourself, if Bradshaw or any of the others were on a different team, would they have the same success?

dON'T forget they also had Ryan Grant....perhaps the FO is just excellent at scouting RB talent?

 

[KoolKat]

Sorry if this is a Honda, I searched and didn't find anything on this.It seems to me that the Giants O-Line and blocking scheme is the biggest factor in the recent success of their RBs. It reminds me a lot of the Denver situation. Guys like Ward, Bradshaw, Droughns, and Jacobs have all looked spectacular at times, in their system as was Barber. It appears to me that they are the new Broncos in this sense. I have a feeling that they could be the next team to have this ability to plug just about any RB in and be successful. This is relevant to fantasy football, because I do not believe anyone should overvalue these guys due to their stats. You have to ask yourself, if Bradshaw or any of the others were on a different team, would they have the same success?

dON'T forget they also had Ryan Grant....perhaps the FO is just excellent at scouting RB talent?

That's a good point. Maybe it is a mixture of both.

 

[Rounders]

Or is it Coughlin? He knows how to run the ball. See how his teams did when he was in Jacksonville. He really understands how the running game is supposed to work.

 

[Dodge]

Coughlin was the WR Coach with Giants during the 80s.

 

[Rounders]

Coughlin was the WR Coach with Giants during the 80s.

I'm not following you here.

 

[dgreen]

Rushing under Coughlin:

Year  YPC  Rank  Primary RB1995  4.2	9   Stewart1996  3.8   15   Stewart1997  3.8   18   Means1998  4.3	4   Taylor1999  4.1   11   Stewart2000  4.2   12   Taylor2001  4.3	9   Mack2002  4.6	5   Taylor2004  4.5	5   Barber2005  4.7	3   Barber2006  4.7	6   Barber2007  4.6	4   Jacobs

 

[KoolKat]

Rushing under Coughlin:

Year  YPC  Rank  Primary RB1995  4.2	9   Stewart1996  3.8   15   Stewart1997  3.8   18   Means1998  4.3	4   Taylor1999  4.1   11   Stewart2000  4.2   12   Taylor2001  4.3	9   Mack2002  4.6	5   Taylor2004  4.5	5   Barber2005  4.7	3   Barber2006  4.7	6   Barber2007  4.6	4   Jacobs

Nice evidence. Apparently Coughlin's scheme, and perhaps scouting talent, is the largest factor in this situation. This is good to know, because as long as Coughlin is a coach, his RB should be considered more valuable. Does anyone know if he takes a hands on approach with the O-Line, and if not, who is the NYG O-Line coach?

 

[dgreen]

Coughlin's main RBs YPC under Coughlin vs. their career YPC:

Player		 w/TC  CareerJames Stewart  3.9	4.0Natrone Means  3.4	3.7Stacey Mack	4.0	3.8Fred Taylor	4.6	4.7Tiki Barber	5.0	4.7

 

[KoolKat]

Coughlin's main RBs YPC under Coughlin vs. their career YPC:

Player		 w/TC  CareerJames Stewart  3.9	4.0Natrone Means  3.4	3.7Stacey Mack	4.0	3.8Fred Taylor	4.6	4.7Tiki Barber	5.0	4.7

I think the first three RBs are a bit misleading, since the Jags were in their infancy when they were around, and are also inferior backs. Means was also at the end of his career when he came to the Jags. Regardless, they were all productive which adheres to the idea that Coughlin has a quality running scheme.

 

[Rounders]

DGreen, curious to know what the breakdown was between the pass/rush for each season of Coughlin, is that something you have access too?

 

[Dodge]

Coughlin was the WR Coach with Giants during the 80s.

I'm not following you here.

I was just throwing that out there, where some of his coaching background is.

 

[dgreen]

DGreen, curious to know what the breakdown was between the pass/rush for each season of Coughlin, is that something you have access too?

Pass	   PassYear   ATT  SCK  Plys  RATT1995   495   57   552   4101996   557   50   607   4311997   504   40   544   4541998   463   39   502   4871999   535   36   571   5142000   545   54   599   4812001   534   63   597   3722002   462   42   504   4552004   475   52   527   4242005   558   28   586   4692006   523   25   548   4552007   544   28   572   469

 

[pillowpants]

It's all kinds of factors.

First, the Giants front office did a very impressive job of landing the stable of RB's on the roster (and in GB).

Second, Coughlin is using the talent he has been given. The Giants run completely different plays for Jacobs than they do for Bradshaw. They are playing to the strengths of each back.

Third, The O-Line is underrated. Snee should be in Hawaii after the SB, Diehl may be the most versatile lineman in the league, O'Hara is a great leader...

 

[SSOG]

I don't think the Giants are the new Broncos. I think the Colts are.

 

[jwb]

I think it's more talent than scheme with the Giants. Jacobs and Bradshaw are quality backs, and Ward is no slouch either. This is far from Tatum and Mike Bell.

 

[FUBAR]

Rushing under Coughlin:

Year  YPC  Rank  Primary RB 1995  4.2	9   Stewart 1996  3.8   15   Stewart 1997  3.8   18   Means 1998  4.3	4   Taylor 1999  4.1   11   Stewart 2000  4.2   12   Taylor 2001  4.3	9   Mack 2002  4.6	5   Taylor 2004  4.5	5   Barber 2005  4.7	3   Barber 2006  4.7	6   Barber 2007  4.6	4   Jacobs

Nice evidence. Apparently Coughlin's scheme, and perhaps scouting talent, is the largest factor in this situation. This is good to know, because as long as Coughlin is a coach, his RB should be considered more valuable. Does anyone know if he takes a hands on approach with the O-Line, and if not, who is the NYG O-Line coach?

You'd think, but I wonder if there's a possibility of RBBC with Jacobs, Ward and Bradshaw. IIRC, Ward is a FA this off season, so that may help things.

 

[Bri]

sure seems like it, even though I didnt think their Oline was any good.

"No one" did. They never got any credit when Tiki was putting up massive #s either. The year Eli was a rook and Warner was there, they were one of the worst I've ever watched. Bledsoe and Couch's rookie year...that bad.They've been pretty solid though for a while.I didn't much care for that T that went to Tampa. Rosenthal? I really should know his name as he irked me so much. His concentration or focus was terrible some games. He could handle some star DE one week, then the next week some "nobody" gets 2 sacks and 6 pressures because of him.The Giants moved their excellent underrated G to T late in 06 and he's just a solid old fashioned tough do-what-it-takes linemen. He's no Pace or Ogden but he's tough as nails. I think that's been a quiet key to alot of their 07 success. Better running, more time for Eli etc.

 

[Avery]

sure seems like it, even though I didnt think their Oline was any good.

"No one" did. They never got any credit when Tiki was putting up massive #s either. The year Eli was a rook and Warner was there, they were one of the worst I've ever watched. Bledsoe and Couch's rookie year...that bad.

They've been pretty solid though for a while.

I didn't much care for that T that went to Tampa. Rosenthal? I really should know his name as he irked me so much. His concentration or focus was terrible some games. He could handle some star DE one week, then the next week some "nobody" gets 2 sacks and 6 pressures because of him.

The Giants moved their excellent underrated G to T late in 06 and he's just a solid old fashioned tough do-what-it-takes linemen. He's no Pace or Ogden but he's tough as nails. I think that's been a quiet key to alot of their 07 success. Better running, more time for Eli etc.

He was a good, not great, LT who was paid like a great LT and had perennial back problems, not good for an O-lineman.Part of the purge the Giants had last year of overpriced, mediocre and injured players.

A risky move that has seemed to pay off.

 

[Liquid Tension]

sure seems like it, even though I didnt think their Oline was any good.

Their OL has been an excellent run blocking unit but a poor pass protection unit. The pass protection has been better of late, but in general McKenzie is a good example of the line...road grader RB, but at times a turnstile at protection

 

[Donnybrook]

I think it's more talent than scheme with the Giants. Jacobs and Bradshaw are quality backs, and Ward is no slouch either. This is far from Tatum and Mike Bell.

In that case, I think that Titans are the new Broncos. That is to say that I am unimpressed with the Titans current RBs and feel that some undrafted RB could out perform them even though the Titans are currently #5 overall in rushing.

 

[SSOG]

I think it's more talent than scheme with the Giants. Jacobs and Bradshaw are quality backs, and Ward is no slouch either. This is far from Tatum and Mike Bell.

In that case, I think that Titans are the new Broncos. That is to say that I am unimpressed with the Titans current RBs and feel that some undrafted RB could out perform them even though the Titans are currently #5 overall in rushing.

The problem with this is Tennessee's rushing offense ranks 21st in the league in yards per attempt. Their high yardage rankings isn't the result of any special rushing prowess- quite the opposite, they're a below-average rushing team- they're just posting huge stats because they have an amazing defense, poor QB play, and the worst WR corps in the league. The Titans are really the new Titans- i.e. they're the reincarnation of the Eddie George "3 yards and a cloud of dust" Titans. Or maybe the Titans are the new Steelers- another team that amassed huge rushing totals based almost entirely on the number of attempts.Denver, by comparison, had a relatively down year, finishing the season only 9th in total yards... but they did it while ranking 5th in the league in yards per attempt.

 

[houndirish]

Ditto the poster who mentioned the Giants line has been bashed unneccesarily the last few seasons. All the talk in the preseason was the the o-line would be terrible. The only guy they lost was Petitgout, who as mentioned was good, not great, and certainly replaceable. Diehl had played every position on the line at some point in his young career and was up to the challenge. Diehl performed well in a division with good edge rushers (Cole, Ware and Carter). Snee is on the cusp of making a pro-bowl and is finally gaining acclaim as a good lineman, not a famous son in law. Even O'Hara, who was a castoff from Cleveland, has taken his game to a new level. Seubert was the best lineman on the team before his horrific injury a few years ago. This is a young, strong unit that is dominant at run blocking and above average at protecting the passer. Unlike previous seasons, the G-Men have capable backups in Whimper and Reugamer too.