Are you guys watching this $#!t on ESPN (1 Viewer)

[P Boy]

Where did I say T.O. had any leverage? I said you guys should quit acting like you get to decide what contract is fair for someone else. I said T.O. has the right to complain about the contract if he doesn't like it, especially since owners fail to honor contracts all the time. Get a grip. And get your facts straight.

Well, it is August. He has proven in the past that he will deliver when it counts. That's what he's done to earn the money. If the Eagles don't want to pay it, fine. Then just cut him or trade him. Seems like a very simple solution to me.

You clearly imply that Owens holds some kind of sway in this matter.The Eagles don't have to cut him, they don't have to trade him, and they may not have to pay him - those are your assertions above, if I have the facts straight. Thank goodness I recovered in time to get a grip.In fact, if push comes to shove they may not only not have to pay him but may recoup some of the guaranteed money that they paid out as a signing bonus because of his breach of contract.The Eagles hold the cards here. Owens & Rosenhaus do not.

 

[Pat Patriot]

All NFL teams honor their contracts.The way the contracts are now negotiated and written, every contract is a 1 year guaranteed deal with Club Options for each of the remaining years. The Club pays the player a signing bonus for the right to hold the option. When people say that a player is being cut, really the team is just deciding not to exercise the option.

 

[dickey moe]

As I've said in other threads I would happily take the Eagles' law suit against Owens. The CBA is part and parcel of every NFL contract being incorporated by reference. Even were it not general contract law presupposes that parties to personal service contracts will use good faith in making their best efforts to perform their side of the contract.

Owens and Rosenhaus (Who with a J.D. from Duke should know better) came out and stated in several public fora that they are unhappy with Owens binding contract, that they will attempt to appear to not blatantly violate it's concrete terms, while at the same time vowing to be unhappy and assuring the Eagles that they would be unhappy as well. In short they announced their intent to perform in bad faith.

Now we see that they are indeed performing in bad faith.

Can the Eagles win this case, most likely. As some have stated it's not a slam dunk, but courts are quite well versed in dealing with these types of issues and Owens and Rosenhaus have been their own worst enemies here. Rarely do courts being asked to rule on such matters have public vows from the party acting in bad faith that they intend to make the other party to the contract sorry that they are holding the first party to the contract terms.

The real issue here is not, of course, would the Eagles prevail. The issue is whether they would survive a motion for summary judgment and get their day in court. Taking the matter in the light most favorable to the Eagles as the moving party, as the court would have to do, the Eagles would survive the motion and get their day in court.

This would mean the Eagles organization would be allowed full discovery. They would get to do interrogatories and they would get to depose Owens, Rosenhaus, and any staff working for Rosenhaus. This would cost Owens and Rosenhaus tens of thousands of dollars to defend before even getting near motions or trial. All the while Owens endorsement opportunites and Rosenhaus' stature would diminish. Does anybody think other players are going to want an agent whose laundry is being aired publically in court and who has guided his marquee client not to riches, but rather to spending money to defend a lawsuit while the last productive years of his career are spent in petulent litigation.

The Eagles have it in their power to make Owens heal and come when called like the cur he is. They also have it in their power to break Rosenhaus. My guess is that this wil get explained to Owens who will then publically state he was taken in by this Svengali. Owens will throw Rosenhaus under the bus as a way of saving face. He will put this off on him. He will perform his contract and the Eagles will try to quietly deal him in the off season.

This is the only logical scenario where I could see TO playing in an Eagles uniform this year, and even then, it's a stretch.I still feel that Dodds' post best summed up the situation. I respect Bryant's opinions and email updates, but I just don't see TO playing football this year unless there's some kind of crazy trade where another owner is willing to take on TO's contract and take another chance with his behavior.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Way too many pages to read here. Not sure if this was talked about, but if Rosenhaus wasn't the negotiating agent that signed TO to the Eagles, has Drew made any money off TO? That could be Drew's ulterior motive for this circus, but I'm not sure how that works.

 

[rhawkins68]

This interview was so scripted on the TO side it was obvious. They had exactly the same talking points as the PTI interview, even down to the smirky little nasal laugh by Rosenhaus when TO said "My last name's not Reid."

This has been a ploy from the outset. Have TO show up at camp to say he's honoring his contract, then be a cancer to the team until he becomes happy. Well guess what TO, you're NEVER going to be happy until you are put on some serious psychiatric medication.

And memo to Chris Berman -- you are a total tool and a ##### interviewer.

Having not actually been on the field I don't know from sure, but from the interviews I've seen I don't believe "cancer to the team" is an accurate representation of TO in camp. As he stated in his interview, he's not ignoring anybody who addresses him...he's simply going out there and doing his job. If somebody speaks to him he listens. If the communication requires a reply, he replies. The "cancer" characterization is partially a product of the media...again this is from what I've heard via interviews of players, coaches and TO. I haven't seen anything to contradict this.

Then he is getting bad advice from his tool agent.That is if TO is really innocent in all this.

what specifically is the bad advice that is being given?TO reported to camp on time despite being vastly underpaid this year.

He's not underpaid. This was pointed out earlier in the thread.

 

[Jason Wood]

Way too many pages to read here. Not sure if this was talked about, but if Rosenhaus wasn't the negotiating agent that signed TO to the Eagles, has Drew made any money off TO?

That could be Drew's ulterior motive for this circus, but I'm not sure how that works.

Not could be but IS

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

There is so much speculation and circular logic in this thread it's making my head spin. Kudos to Dodds for laying out the logical view, and one that hits on the major points.

When TO announced he would show up to camp, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought, "OK, he was making a stink to see if it would work but now he's going to get down to business."

When TO came up lame with a groin pull, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought, "OK, it IS convenient that he's come up with an ethereal injury at the start of camp but TO is a work horse so he must really be hurt."

When TO wouldn't talk to McNabb, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought, "He's misplaced in his anger, but they're both professionals and know that their chances of winning a SB are far better together than apart."

When TO failed to show up for a MANDATORY autograph session, I though, "Hmmm, now that's not cool, all that does is disappoint the fans and has no bearing no his situation with the team."

But at some point, the rationalization of "TO's perspective" has to end. How any sane, rational person could look at his demeanor and hear his commentary over the last 36 hours and see someone who's honestly just playing a calculated game to get what he wants, is just someone that is wired entirely different than I am.

No offense Jason, but you must have been blinded by the Eagle green if you're now just figuring out he's wired totally different than you and most everyone. He's unbelievably selfish, ridiculously immature, and insanely good at the game of football.I cannot believe how he treats his coaches and his teammates. What he has done here is worse to me than what Ricky Williams did last year.

 

[Mystery Achiever]

How do you think Drew was able to keep a straight face when he said TO doesn't want to be a distraction?

 

[larz]

Might be nice if FBG donates a portion from every 2006 subscription fee to help feed TO's family.

 

[ericttspikes]

This is from a chat Mr. Rosenhaus did a few months back....

sean (nyc): don't you worry about your clients public image? TO is taking a beating.

Drew Rosenhaus : I always worry about that. It's one of the things you have to be concerned about. TO's image should not take a beating. You always have to do what you think is right and this is what he thinks is right for his family. It is not warranted for his image to suffer. He is doing what he thinks is right. When we get this resolved and he plays again in Philly or elsewhere, he will be adored. He is a future HOFer and I have every reason to believe he will resume his popularity. Fans forget off the field controversies quickly, as soon as you score that first TD. TO hasn't hurt anybody, he hasn't broken the law, etc. People should not be upset by what he is doing.

Thoughts on that?^^^Terrell Owens crossed the line last night saying he hasn't talked to Mcnabb.

Is he a definite future HOFer?He is currently 25th all time in receptions. Contemporaries ahead of him: Rice, Tim Brown, Harrison, Jimmy Smith, Bruce, McCardell, Rod Smith, Keyshawn.

He is currently tied for 23rd all time in receiving yards. Contemporaries ahead of him: Rice, Brown, Bruce, Jimmy Smith, and Harrison, and he is tied with Rod Smith.

He is currently 7th in receiving TDs. Contemporaries ahead of him: Rice, Brown, and Harrison. Plus, Moss trails him by 5 and will obviously end up with more.

Owens was born in 1973 and has played 9 seasons so far. It is likely that he will begin to decline soon. Meanwhile, there are only 19 modern era WRs in the HOF, and only 4 who began their careers in 1970 or later (Lofton, Largent, Stallworth, and Swann).

Rice, Moss, and Harrison are contemporaries who will get in before Owens. And I suspect Brown will get in as well, at least partly because his eligibility will come up before these other guys. Owens would probably have been next in line, but will the HOF take 5 guys from the same era, when they have previously been so selective?

So IMO, Owens was not a lock before this mess. And where a guy like Tim Brown will likely be helped by the fact that he represented himself, his team, and the NFL with class, Owens will be hurt by that if he is on the bubble.

Now consider how his chances are affected if he misses this season.

I agree. If Art Monk isn't in the Hall yet, Owens will never be.I can understand why Owens wants his money now. As soon as his skills dimish nobody is going to want this guy around anymore unlike players like Smith, Montana, Rice and Art Monk.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Offshoot question-- if Dan Snyder is willing to pay him, would the Eagles let TO go to a division rival?

NoThe eagles have already made a statement that if he doesn't play for them he will not play at all.

Plus, keep in mind that his signing bonus last year was amortized over 7 years for cap purposes. In order to cut or trade him now, 6 years' worth would hit the cap, though since it is after June 1 I believe they could split that cap hit over 2005 and 2006.I'm not sure what his signing bonus was... $8M?, $10M?... but there would be $6M to $9M that would hit the cap.

I assume the Eagles don't have that much free cap room right now, so they'd have to rework other contracts to enable themselves to do it.

this is an important point that i am not sure if the implications have rippled through yet... when you cut somebody with a big contract, i believe it accelerates the cap hit (see warner recently with rams, which hamstrung their cap in 2004)...there is a calclus that has to be taken into account, but surely at some point, it is cheaper to KEEP a player, than cut him.

he won't be cut or traded.

if he reports, there are two ways it can go... if he is belligerant & insubordinate, he will be put down... they won't tolerate the disruption to team chemistry, & frankly they don't need to. it sounds like they can suspend him without pay, citing him for conduct detrimental to team.

if he comes back & doesn't do anything else to cause him to get suspended, it is possible he could suit up... but that is obviously looking increasingly unlikely. owens is getting terrible advice, but what could we else could we expect... this whole chain of events was set in motion as soon as TO switched agents.

not saying it could have been easily predicted or seen from a distance like an impending trainwreck, but in retrospect easy to connect the dots.

lousyhoser only gets paid if can get renegotiated contract. and the eagles aren't going to renegotiate. they don't have to, they hold all the leverage, & it would set terrible precedent for others on team & future dealings they might have with hoser... they can cry all they want... it won't get them paid more... lousyhoser is COMPLETELY out of the equation.

all it will do is leave TO unpaid, with his career in jeopardy. the eagles can string this out into 2006.

edit/add - hadn't read far enuf at time of posting... mungo burrows post addresses this and states it WOULD be cheaper to cut him based on how bonus was amortized & spread out... i still think the eagles will refuse to do this.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Just wanted to copy in this prediction from a July thread about Owens reporting to camp.To me this is a clear indication of Owens plan to, in bad faith, use less than his best efforts while trying to appear to fulfill his contract. That he should say such a thing has to worry Rosenhaus, who, having graduated from Duke with a J.D. is aware of the light this would put his client in should any lawsuits ultimately arise from this situation.Further, this has to aggravate the Eagles to no end. When they structured Owens contract making most of his bonus a roster bonus rather than a signing bonus they showed their good faith. They basically, for cap reasons, pulled most of his cost into the first year. They left themselves vulnerable to Owens antics by not having the money in a signing bonus, which is recoverable, rather than in the roster bonus, which is not. To have Owens then make his demands when they treated him fairly and when they risked much on his future behavior and his not stabbing them in the back has to be beyond galling. You just know that before the made the unique arrangement with Owens that they had his word, his personal assurance he would not act this way. Owens has made this personal. He has betrayed the men who took a chance on him last year when his value was plummeting as a malcontent. He has insulted them, degraded his team mates, but also placed them in a situation where they cannot recover much of their investment. Having made it personal, and with the team in a no win situation as regards to the money they have paid him, they have very little to lose by taking a hard line. In fact doing so will likely serve them well in future player negotaiations.

 

[bakes]

Way too many pages to read here. Not sure if this was talked about, but if Rosenhaus wasn't the negotiating agent that signed TO to the Eagles, has Drew made any money off TO?

That could be Drew's ulterior motive for this circus, but I'm not sure how that works.

Not could be but IS

I think there may be more to it than just getting his cut of TO. My guess is that Rosenhaus is swinging for the fences here. If he can get TO out of a contract, moved to another team, and then signed for more money he can and would parlay that into being the Travel Agent - he'll send you anywhere you want to go. His stature among agents would be far in excess of where it currently stands.

 

[Bob Magaw]

TO said he doesn't want to talk to McNabb. TO also said at halftime last night that he thinks he & McNabb cannot be productive together on the field any more. This in addition to his derogatory comments about McNabb after the Super Bowl and also calling him a hypocrite on ESPN yesterday.

He kind of got away with bashing Garcia without too many repercussions, but I would venture to say that McNabb is one of the most respected players in the league and is a class act.

McNabb is going nowhere. He is the Eagles right now. IMO this part of TO's attitude is worse than his insubordination to the coaches and missing the autograph session. I think this is the most likely reason TO won't suit up for the Eagles again.

Way too many pages to read here. Not sure if this was talked about, but if Rosenhaus wasn't the negotiating agent that signed TO to the Eagles, has Drew made any money off TO?

That could be Drew's ulterior motive for this circus, but I'm not sure how that works.

Not could be but IS

I think there may be more to it than just getting his cut of TO. My guess is that Rosenhaus is swinging for the fences here. If he can get TO out of a contract, moved to another team, and then signed for more money he can and would parlay that into being the Travel Agent - he'll send you anywhere you want to go. His stature among agents would be far in excess of where it currently stands.

another good point...whether he is a loose cannon or got bad advice from lousy hoser or both, TO has got it into his thick, neanderthal skull that if he insults local institution & league icon mcnabb enuf, he will secure his release.

all it will do is bring about a state of affairs in which his only way to play & get paid... that being with the eagles... is barred from him... & he finds himself in a situation in which he is unemployed... & unemployable.

 

[Wheelhouse]

From the interview:

Owens: I have nothing to say to Donovan.

This can't be good.

 

[dotman]

Anyone wonder what his mother thinks?If she sees that interview and can't stop bragging about her picture being on TV?Or if she sees her grown son acting extremely childish?It might give some hints as to how he was raised. I'd bet it's not the latter.

 

[TheBigHouse]

Anyone wonder what his mother thinks?

If she sees that interview and can't stop bragging about her picture being on TV?

Or if she sees her grown son acting extremely childish?

It might give some hints as to how he was raised. I'd bet it's not the latter.

Actually, I believe that is his grandmother, Alice (who raised T.O. for a significant portion of his life and now suffers from Alzheimer's) and not his mother.

 

[Irish]

Listened to Mike & Mike on ESPN radio on my way to work this morning.

Sean Salisbury was subbing for Golic. He said he now believes the team can no longer take TO back.

Sal P. was on first. He said the following of interest:

The team waiver must be false, because if Joe Banner and the Eagles are lying about it, all TO would have to do is produce the document. Because they know this, there is no way they (the Eagles) would lie about it. Sal said they would be subject to a lawsuit if it was proven that they lied about it.

Mort was on next. He said the following of interest:

1. He said last year before the Super Bowl he spoke directly to Joe Banner, who told him "they were in the boat with TO", just as has been reported. Mort interprets this as confirmation that they did not require TO to sign a waiver, and believes Joe Banner's statements on this. He speculated that TO may have signed a waiver with his doctor but said it was only speculation.

2. He called Len Pasquarelli to find out about TO & Drew's claims that he isn't paid as a top 10 receiver. He said that Len's records show that he is a top 10 paid WR, whether you look at average salary for whole contract, average salary for first 2 years of contract, average salary for first 3 years of contract, or even just base salary for 2005. So in his view that claim is baseless.

3. He sees no NFL team that would be willing to (a) trade anything of value to the Eagles for TO and (b) pay TO the money he wants. He said there is always a chance Dan Snyder would do it, but Gibbs wouldn't. So that left no one.

4. He said he does not believe TO will play for the Eagles this year.

As I stated in one of the 100 TO threads, these so called experts and former players were saying the exact same thing about the possibility of Ricky Williams returning to the Dolphins.

 

[Limecuda]

Honestly, with his antics he is probably making more than any other team would give him. It would be hysterical to see him released to only be offered half of what he is to receive now.Being a Cowboys fan I have always hated the Eagles, but I support them 100% on dealing with this malcontent.

 

[Rev]

No surprise here. This is the kind of cancer that TO's always been. Teams put up with it when you have a bright and sucessful career ahead of you, but when you're pushing 33, it gets old really fast. DEPORT T.O!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Wilbur Wood]

Have an auction redraft league tonight. 10 teams, $260 cap. Start 1 QB, 2 RB, 4 WR, etc.Curious as to what folks think Owens' redraft auction market value is?While I'd certainly a flyer for a few bucks, my sense is that there will be at least 1 owner who thinks that he'll come back after the 1 week suspension and be productive which will push his value to about ~ $20. He went for $43 in this same league last year.

 

[Joe Bryant]

As I've said in other threads I would happily take the Eagles' law suit against Owens. The CBA is part and parcel of every NFL contract being incorporated by reference. Even were it not general contract law presupposes that parties to personal service contracts will use good faith in making their best efforts to perform their side of the contract.

Owens and Rosenhaus (Who with a J.D. from Duke should know better) came out and stated in several public fora that they are unhappy with Owens binding contract, that they will attempt to appear to not blatantly violate it's concrete terms, while at the same time vowing to be unhappy and assuring the Eagles that they would be unhappy as well. In short they announced their intent to perform in bad faith.

Now we see that they are indeed performing in bad faith.

Can the Eagles win this case, most likely. As some have stated it's not a slam dunk, but courts are quite well versed in dealing with these types of issues and Owens and Rosenhaus have been their own worst enemies here. Rarely do courts being asked to rule on such matters have public vows from the party acting in bad faith that they intend to make the other party to the contract sorry that they are holding the first party to the contract terms.

The real issue here is not, of course, would the Eagles prevail. The issue is whether they would survive a motion for summary judgment and get their day in court. Taking the matter in the light most favorable to the Eagles as the moving party, as the court would have to do, the Eagles would survive the motion and get their day in court.

This would mean the Eagles organization would be allowed full discovery. They would get to do interrogatories and they would get to depose Owens, Rosenhaus, and any staff working for Rosenhaus. This would cost Owens and Rosenhaus tens of thousands of dollars to defend before even getting near motions or trial. All the while Owens endorsement opportunites and Rosenhaus' stature would diminish. Does anybody think other players are going to want an agent whose laundry is being aired publically in court and who has guided his marquee client not to riches, but rather to spending money to defend a lawsuit while the last productive years of his career are spent in petulent litigation.

The Eagles have it in their power to make Owens heal and come when called like the cur he is. They also have it in their power to break Rosenhaus. My guess is that this wil get explained to Owens who will then publically state he was taken in by this Svengali. Owens will throw Rosenhaus under the bus as a way of saving face. He will put this off on him. He will perform his contract and the Eagles will try to quietly deal him in the off season.

Paging Mr. DW... Mr. Steinberg on line 3...

J

 

[Obie Wan]

Just wanted to copy in this prediction from a July thread about Owens reporting to camp.

To me this is a clear indication of Owens plan to, in bad faith, use less than his best efforts while trying to appear to fulfill his contract. That he should say such a thing has to worry Rosenhaus, who, having graduated from Duke with a J.D. is aware of the light this would put his client in should any lawsuits ultimately arise from this situation.

Further, this has to aggravate the Eagles to no end. When they structured Owens contract making most of his bonus a roster bonus rather than a signing bonus they showed their good faith. They basically, for cap reasons, pulled most of his cost into the first year. They left themselves vulnerable to Owens antics by not having the money in a signing bonus, which is recoverable, rather than in the roster bonus, which is not. To have Owens then make his demands when they treated him fairly and when they risked much on his future behavior and his not stabbing them in the back has to be beyond galling. You just know that before the made the unique arrangement with Owens that they had his word, his personal assurance he would not act this way.

Owens has made this personal. He has betrayed the men who took a chance on him last year when his value was plummeting as a malcontent. He has insulted them, degraded his team mates, but also placed them in a situation where they cannot recover much of their investment. Having made it personal, and with the team in a no win situation as regards to the money they have paid him, they have very little to lose by taking a hard line. In fact doing so will likely serve them well in future player negotaiations.

I think they fullyt expected to only get 1 year out of Owens and a Super bowl win to make it worthwhile.

They structcured his contract so they could easily take the cap hit if they had to dump him.

Highly likely that Eagles suspend TO for the year and take back a chuck of the signing bonus for conduct detrimental to the team.

 

[ookook]

Highly likely that Eagles suspend TO for the year and take back a chuck of the signing bonus for conduct detrimental to the team.

I agree, but I thnk they may have to pay him if they do not try to void his contract (and then he can go elsewhere, which they do not want).

Not sure they can suspecnd him and not pay him...pretty sure Keyshawn got $.

 

[allaces10]

Listened to Mike & Mike on ESPN radio on my way to work this morning.

Sean Salisbury was subbing for Golic. He said he now believes the team can no longer take TO back.

Sal P. was on first. He said the following of interest:

The team waiver must be false, because if Joe Banner and the Eagles are lying about it, all TO would have to do is produce the document. Because they know this, there is no way they (the Eagles) would lie about it. Sal said they would be subject to a lawsuit if it was proven that they lied about it.

Mort was on next. He said the following of interest:

1. He said last year before the Super Bowl he spoke directly to Joe Banner, who told him "they were in the boat with TO", just as has been reported. Mort interprets this as confirmation that they did not require TO to sign a waiver, and believes Joe Banner's statements on this. He speculated that TO may have signed a waiver with his doctor but said it was only speculation.

2. He called Len Pasquarelli to find out about TO & Drew's claims that he isn't paid as a top 10 receiver. He said that Len's records show that he is a top 10 paid WR, whether you look at average salary for whole contract, average salary for first 2 years of contract, average salary for first 3 years of contract, or even just base salary for 2005. So in his view that claim is baseless.

3. He sees no NFL team that would be willing to (a) trade anything of value to the Eagles for TO and (b) pay TO the money he wants. He said there is always a chance Dan Snyder would do it, but Gibbs wouldn't. So that left no one.

4. He said he does not believe TO will play for the Eagles this year.

I would like to see how lhucks, jwvcblah, and mnesvig spin, i mean, respond to this...

 

[P Boy]

I would like to see how jwvcblah, and mnesvig spin, i mean, respond to this...

LOL @ thinking they'll show up in this thread again. Too many facts have been exposed.

 

[Big Score]

I haven't seen anything or anyone yet that questions what TO was saying when Reid told him to shut up.

I'm actually quite curious about this myself. I wonder what TO said, that caused Reid to tell him to shut up?

 

[OldMilwaukee]

i think TO is wrong, but it can't be said that PHI didn't know there is a risk with a guy like that... just the prior year (2003) he was seen screaming at his OC on the sidelines at SF. this is the same guy who when he was wired for sound on NFL films was crowing... "i loves me some me"...

maybe it would be too strong to say that they were deluded, misguided & naive if they thought it would be "different" this time, possibly because they have strong leadership & a winning environment... maybe they were thinking he wouldn't be about himself & blend in with the team... BWAHAHAHAHA!

again & just for the record, i can't say i have respect for how he conducts himself or his methods, but if you go to war with a mercenary, don't be too surprised if at some point in the battle you find the gun turned against you.

or like martin sheen said to charlie in wall street...

"don't go to bed with no #####, & you won't wake up with one"...

the most despicable & reprehensible thing about TOs actions are that he feels compelled to use mcnabb to try & get himself out of a self-inflicted jam.

AS A PRO....I TAKE EXCEPTION TO THAT REMARK!

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

Too bad ROy Williams couldnt have tackled him a little harder

 

[Flying V]

I haven't seen anything or anyone yet that questions what TO was saying when Reid told him to shut up.

I'm actually quite curious about this myself. I wonder what TO said, that caused Reid to tell him to shut up?

Maybe it wasn't so much of what TO said. Reid probably just couldn't get a word in edgewise.

 

[RustyFA]

I was hoping Berman was going to ask, "T.O you are obviously a bright guy,  if the contract you have is so poor why did you agree to it just last year????"

EXACTLY.

TO didn't have a lot of options.

And, the Stupid TO Apologist Award goes to...LHUCKS!

Insult #3 in case the mods are around.

OOooooooooohh...I think he's telling

Yeah, it has that sort of kindergarten feel to it, doesn't it?It's ok, I admit...I crossed the line on that one. I probably could've conveyed the same sentiment without using the word "stupid."

Oh come on. This guy cuts people down every day. Don't apologize.

This is simply not true...a link would be nice, but I know you can't find one.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...ic=170905&st=35

 

[BeTheMatch]

Listened to Mike & Mike on ESPN radio on my way to work this morning.

Sean Salisbury was subbing for Golic.  He said he now believes the team can no longer take TO back.

Sal P. was on first.  He said the following of interest:

The team waiver must be false, because if Joe Banner and the Eagles are lying about it, all TO would have to do is produce the document.  Because they know this, there is no way they (the Eagles) would lie about it.  Sal said they would be subject to a lawsuit if it was proven that they lied about it.

Mort was on next.  He said the following of interest:

1. He said last year before the Super Bowl he spoke directly to Joe Banner, who told him "they were in the boat with TO", just as has been reported.  Mort interprets this as confirmation that they did not require TO to sign a waiver, and believes Joe Banner's statements on this.  He speculated that TO may have signed a waiver with his doctor but said it was only speculation.

2. He called Len Pasquarelli to find out about TO & Drew's claims that he isn't paid as a top 10 receiver.  He said that Len's records show that he is a top 10 paid WR, whether you look at average salary for whole contract, average salary for first 2 years of contract, average salary for first 3 years of contract, or even just base salary for 2005.  So in his view that claim is baseless.

3. He sees no NFL team that would be willing to (a) trade anything of value to the Eagles for TO and (b) pay TO the money he wants.  He said there is always a chance Dan Snyder would do it, but Gibbs wouldn't.  So that left no one.

4. He said he does not believe TO will play for the Eagles this year.

I would like to see how lhucks, jwvcblah, and mnesvig spin, i mean, respond to this...

Sure, no problem. I'll spin. Mort also says that Matt Jones will be a Hall of Famer. So I'd say you should take anything he says with a grain of salt.

 

[BeTheMatch]

As far as the ESPN interview, it was amazing from my standpoint.  I went from outright anger at the disrespect that Owens has for anyone not named Terrell Owens or Drew Rosenhaus to actually laughing outloud because the statements that Owens & Rosenhaus were making were so ludicrous.

After that showing, an NFL player would have to be a fool to hire Rosenhaus.  He dropped trou & revealed to the world what a snake oil salesman he really is.  This should be interesting to watch.  Owens & Rosenhaus' strategy appears to be doing anything that will generate so much outrage that they figure the Eagles will try to cut their losses & cave in to their demands.

Unlike what mnesvig asserts, however, the Eagles have all the leverage.  They have a signed contract for an expected level of behavior and performance.  Owens apparently doesn't have enough sense to realize that he is breaching that contract with his behavior.

I don't think Lurie is going to be the first one to blink here, and he can bring a lot more resources to bear if it comes to a courtroom brawl than Owens could ever imagine having.  And as I stated a while back in another thread, I'm firmly convinced that both Green Bay & Philadelphia are the league's chosen battlegrounds in trying to put a heavy leash on one Mr. Rosenhaus.

Where did I say T.O. had any leverage? I said you guys should quit acting like you get to decide what contract is fair for someone else. I said T.O. has the right to complain about the contract if he doesn't like it, especially since owners fail to honor contracts all the time. Get a grip. And get your facts straight.

Owners never fail to honor contracts. Give one example. Oh, before you do you might want to review contract law so you know what you are talking about. Paticularly spend some time understanding option contracts

You don't know what you're talking about. Contracts are not guaranteed. Ever heard of salary cap casualties? It happens every year.

 

[packersfan]

Listened to Mike & Mike on ESPN radio on my way to work this morning.

Sean Salisbury was subbing for Golic. He said he now believes the team can no longer take TO back.

Sal P. was on first. He said the following of interest:

The team waiver must be false, because if Joe Banner and the Eagles are lying about it, all TO would have to do is produce the document. Because they know this, there is no way they (the Eagles) would lie about it. Sal said they would be subject to a lawsuit if it was proven that they lied about it.

Mort was on next. He said the following of interest:

1. He said last year before the Super Bowl he spoke directly to Joe Banner, who told him "they were in the boat with TO", just as has been reported. Mort interprets this as confirmation that they did not require TO to sign a waiver, and believes Joe Banner's statements on this. He speculated that TO may have signed a waiver with his doctor but said it was only speculation.

2. He called Len Pasquarelli to find out about TO & Drew's claims that he isn't paid as a top 10 receiver. He said that Len's records show that he is a top 10 paid WR, whether you look at average salary for whole contract, average salary for first 2 years of contract, average salary for first 3 years of contract, or even just base salary for 2005. So in his view that claim is baseless.

3. He sees no NFL team that would be willing to (a) trade anything of value to the Eagles for TO and (b) pay TO the money he wants. He said there is always a chance Dan Snyder would do it, but Gibbs wouldn't. So that left no one.

4. He said he does not believe TO will play for the Eagles this year.

I would like to see how lhucks, jwvcblah, and mnesvig spin, i mean, respond to this...

Sure, no problem. I'll spin. Mort also says that Matt Jones will be a Hall of Famer. So I'd say you should take anything he says with a grain of salt.

Bad spin.Mort saying Matt Jones will be a Hall of Famer. What Mort reported in the post above is based on reporting and discussing the facts of the situation as relayed by multiple sources.

HUGE difference between the two.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Where did I say T.O. had any leverage? I said you guys should quit acting like you get to decide what contract is fair for someone else. I said T.O. has the right to complain about the contract if he doesn't like it, especially since owners fail to honor contracts all the time. Get a grip. And get your facts straight.

Well, it is August. He has proven in the past that he will deliver when it counts. That's what he's done to earn the money. If the Eagles don't want to pay it, fine. Then just cut him or trade him. Seems like a very simple solution to me.

You clearly imply that Owens holds some kind of sway in this matter.The Eagles don't have to cut him, they don't have to trade him, and they may not have to pay him - those are your assertions above, if I have the facts straight. Thank goodness I recovered in time to get a grip.

In fact, if push comes to shove they may not only not have to pay him but may recoup some of the guaranteed money that they paid out as a signing bonus because of his breach of contract.

The Eagles hold the cards here. Owens & Rosenhaus do not.

Where do I say TO has leverage? I said he has the right to not play for a salary he doesn't think is fair? That doesn't give him leverage. If the Eagles don't like the way he's expressing his dissatisfaction, they have options. TO really doesn't. If anything, I pointed out that it's the Eagles who have the leverage.

 

[LHUCKS]

I was hoping Berman was going to ask, "T.O you are obviously a bright guy,  if the contract you have is so poor why did you agree to it just last year????"

EXACTLY.

TO didn't have a lot of options.

And, the Stupid TO Apologist Award goes to...LHUCKS!

Insult #3 in case the mods are around.

OOooooooooohh...I think he's telling

Yeah, it has that sort of kindergarten feel to it, doesn't it?It's ok, I admit...I crossed the line on that one. I probably could've conveyed the same sentiment without using the word "stupid."

Oh come on. This guy cuts people down every day. Don't apologize.

This is simply not true...a link would be nice, but I know you can't find one.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...ic=170905&st=35

You can't be serious...that was obviously sarcastic.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

As far as the ESPN interview, it was amazing from my standpoint.  I went from outright anger at the disrespect that Owens has for anyone not named Terrell Owens or Drew Rosenhaus to actually laughing outloud because the statements that Owens & Rosenhaus were making were so ludicrous.

After that showing, an NFL player would have to be a fool to hire Rosenhaus.  He dropped trou & revealed to the world what a snake oil salesman he really is.  This should be interesting to watch.  Owens & Rosenhaus' strategy appears to be doing anything that will generate so much outrage that they figure the Eagles will try to cut their losses & cave in to their demands.

Unlike what mnesvig asserts, however, the Eagles have all the leverage.  They have a signed contract for an expected level of behavior and performance.  Owens apparently doesn't have enough sense to realize that he is breaching that contract with his behavior.

I don't think Lurie is going to be the first one to blink here, and he can bring a lot more resources to bear if it comes to a courtroom brawl than Owens could ever imagine having.  And as I stated a while back in another thread, I'm firmly convinced that both Green Bay & Philadelphia are the league's chosen battlegrounds in trying to put a heavy leash on one Mr. Rosenhaus.

Where did I say T.O. had any leverage? I said you guys should quit acting like you get to decide what contract is fair for someone else. I said T.O. has the right to complain about the contract if he doesn't like it, especially since owners fail to honor contracts all the time. Get a grip. And get your facts straight.

Owners never fail to honor contracts. Give one example. Oh, before you do you might want to review contract law so you know what you are talking about. Paticularly spend some time understanding option contracts

You don't know what you're talking about. Contracts are not guaranteed. Ever heard of salary cap casualties? It happens every year.

The sad thing is I don't think you are fishing.

 

[RustyFA]

I was hoping Berman was going to ask, "T.O you are obviously a bright guy,  if the contract you have is so poor why did you agree to it just last year????"

EXACTLY.

TO didn't have a lot of options.

And, the Stupid TO Apologist Award goes to...

LHUCKS!

Insult #3 in case the mods are around.

OOooooooooohh...I think he's telling

Yeah, it has that sort of kindergarten feel to it, doesn't it?

It's ok, I admit...I crossed the line on that one. I probably could've conveyed the same sentiment without using the word "stupid."

Oh come on. This guy cuts people down every day. Don't apologize.

This is simply not true...a link would be nice, but I know you can't find one.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...ic=170905&st=35

You can't be serious...that was obviously sarcastic.

I'm sorry then. I apologize.

 

[LHUCKS]

You can't be serious...that was obviously sarcastic.

I'm sorry then. I apologize.

 

[allaces10]

Listened to Mike & Mike on ESPN radio on my way to work this morning.

Sean Salisbury was subbing for Golic.  He said he now believes the team can no longer take TO back.

Sal P. was on first.  He said the following of interest:

The team waiver must be false, because if Joe Banner and the Eagles are lying about it, all TO would have to do is produce the document.  Because they know this, there is no way they (the Eagles) would lie about it.  Sal said they would be subject to a lawsuit if it was proven that they lied about it.

Mort was on next.  He said the following of interest:

1. He said last year before the Super Bowl he spoke directly to Joe Banner, who told him "they were in the boat with TO", just as has been reported.  Mort interprets this as confirmation that they did not require TO to sign a waiver, and believes Joe Banner's statements on this.  He speculated that TO may have signed a waiver with his doctor but said it was only speculation.

2. He called Len Pasquarelli to find out about TO & Drew's claims that he isn't paid as a top 10 receiver.  He said that Len's records show that he is a top 10 paid WR, whether you look at average salary for whole contract, average salary for first 2 years of contract, average salary for first 3 years of contract, or even just base salary for 2005.  So in his view that claim is baseless.

3. He sees no NFL team that would be willing to (a) trade anything of value to the Eagles for TO and (b) pay TO the money he wants.  He said there is always a chance Dan Snyder would do it, but Gibbs wouldn't.  So that left no one.

4. He said he does not believe TO will play for the Eagles this year.

I would like to see how lhucks, jwvcblah, and mnesvig spin, i mean, respond to this...

Sure, no problem. I'll spin. Mort also says that Matt Jones will be a Hall of Famer. So I'd say you should take anything he says with a grain of salt.

How do you know he wont be a hall of famer? Its called a prediction...some come true...some dont...because you dont agree with his opinion on a player, everything else he says is untrue on every other matter? Even if you are just trolling at this point...that was STILL a horrible effort...90% of what you have said in this thread is raw garbage...using your criteria...no one should even bother reading what you have to say...which I suspect is probably already the case anyway....honestly...quit before you hit rock bottom....Still waiting for LHUCKS to comment....

 

[djmich]

Could everyone just please take a freakin' breath here?

I'm not a T.O. apologist but I sure am sick and tired of Joe Blow Message Board Poster crying about how he doesn't make any money so why should T.O. be upset with 12 million.

We on this board cannot understand what that life is like and are in no position to say what he's doing is wrong and that we wouldn't do it. It's all relative. If he feels he's being underpaid compared to other people in his profession, it's his right to complain about it and ask for something to be done about it. The Eagles don't have to. That's up to them.

And I also strongly believe that no one on this message board knows the finer points of the contract T.O. signed and where he ACTUALLY ranks among WR salaries around the league. Contracts are not guaranteed by owners, so how can it be so terrible for a player to want to re-do deal? Owners cut players all the time and tear up contracts or force them to take paycuts. It goes both ways. That's a product of the system.

Is T.O. going about this the right way? Well, that's up to him and his agent to decide. If you don't like it, don't buy his jersey.

Well then why the hell do players sign contracts for more than one year?

 

[supa mann]

Sorry in advance if this is Honda, but I found McNabb's comments pretty funny.

McNabb on TO

More from McNabb

 

[LHUCKS]

Listened to Mike & Mike on ESPN radio on my way to work this morning.

Sean Salisbury was subbing for Golic.  He said he now believes the team can no longer take TO back.

Sal P. was on first.  He said the following of interest:

The team waiver must be false, because if Joe Banner and the Eagles are lying about it, all TO would have to do is produce the document.  Because they know this, there is no way they (the Eagles) would lie about it.  Sal said they would be subject to a lawsuit if it was proven that they lied about it.

Mort was on next.  He said the following of interest:

1. He said last year before the Super Bowl he spoke directly to Joe Banner, who told him "they were in the boat with TO", just as has been reported.  Mort interprets this as confirmation that they did not require TO to sign a waiver, and believes Joe Banner's statements on this.  He speculated that TO may have signed a waiver with his doctor but said it was only speculation.

2. He called Len Pasquarelli to find out about TO & Drew's claims that he isn't paid as a top 10 receiver.  He said that Len's records show that he is a top 10 paid WR, whether you look at average salary for whole contract, average salary for first 2 years of contract, average salary for first 3 years of contract, or even just base salary for 2005.  So in his view that claim is baseless.

3. He sees no NFL team that would be willing to (a) trade anything of value to the Eagles for TO and (b) pay TO the money he wants.  He said there is always a chance Dan Snyder would do it, but Gibbs wouldn't.  So that left no one.

4. He said he does not believe TO will play for the Eagles this year.

I would like to see how lhucks, jwvcblah, and mnesvig spin, i mean, respond to this...

Sure, no problem. I'll spin. Mort also says that Matt Jones will be a Hall of Famer. So I'd say you should take anything he says with a grain of salt.

How do you know he wont be a hall of famer? Its called a prediction...some come true...some dont...because you dont agree with his opinion on a player, everything else he says is untrue on every other matter? Even if you are just trolling at this point...that was STILL a horrible effort...90% of what you have said in this thread is raw garbage...using your criteria...no one should even bother reading what you have to say...which I suspect is probably already the case anyway....honestly...quit before you hit rock bottom....Still waiting for LHUCKS to comment....

I've been making it a point to avoid posts that have a negative tone.

 

[RayLewis]

let TO get his money, if peyton man gettin 30 mil, TO should get 11 mil up front at least, he got no guaranteed money so right now hes gettin paid like a best 50 WRs.

 

[gobolts21]

T.O. doesn't deserve a new contract. Philly did him a favor in getting him out of Baltimore, and he's one of the highest paid receivers already! nts. If there's anybody who deserves a new deal, it's Hines Ward.

 

[dickey moe]

let TO get his money, if peyton man gettin 30 mil, TO should get 11 mil up front at least, he got no guaranteed money so right now hes gettin paid like a best 50 WRs.

this has gotta be a jwvdcw alias.

 

[faulkfan]

Forget money. Forget respect. When you talk about TO, the one thing that you have to understand is that he is a narcissist. He wants to see himself on TV and have peoples attention. This poor guy should be pitied. He has money, fame and opportunity, but it isn't enough for him. The poor schmuck needs the constant warmth of the limelight to feel validated. Why in the heck else would he take off his shirt and lift weights and do situps for the cameras in his drive. Anyone who has studied psychology can see that he has inferiority issues that run deeper than you can imagine.I can't state enough that this man deserves our pity, because at some point he will disappear and no amount of money will be able to Console him. He makes Dennis Rodman look mentally stable.He is fighting a battle he can't win and he has aligned himself with a man who is his mental and psychological twin. DR and TO yearn to be seen so they can feel as though they somehow matter even though they don't. The best thing the Eagles can do is treat them both like an indignant child. Ignore the antics and continue to remind them of what is expected of them. TO has a contract to uphold and if he can't then he will continue to incur unpaid timeouts and team fines. Heck maybe they can even make money off him if they play their cards right.Owens has no shot at ever being happy without phsychological intervention. He might be making we Eagle fans miserable right now, but it isn't anything to what he's going to suffer when he is out of football in a few years and is nothing more than a side note in the book of sport freaks.