Assani's Poker Thread (6 Viewers)

[munga30]

actually went and played some live poker last night! Had 3 somewhat interesting hands to discuss, which I posted in today's blog:

http://www.leggopoker.com/blogs/IcyPots/

1. check-call

1. You have the second nuts. If you check-call, you give him a chance to get to showdown for free with any of the non nut hands, but pay him off when he has the nuts. That seems like a bad idea to me. I think it's less likely villain will shove the river with KT, 22, 55, 99, or TT on a KT259 board with no flushes than that he'd call a shove with the third or fourth nuts. If you plan on calling his all in no matter what, you should be the one who bets.

Hand 1: I agree with Truck that k/c is a better line. Assani's own analysis says TT (or 22/55 I suppose) would have given more action. Discount those in villian's range and QJ way outnumbers 99 combos and the latter won't call 100% of the time. Doesn't matter that villian gets to show down KT "for free" if he won't call with it. Assani's range looks very polarized (QJ/KK/bluff) after epraise/pot/pot/allin, and I think it's difficult for Assani to have bluffing hands left in his range that KT beats (AAxx but that's going to be very infrequent, if at all). So I think it's very unlikely that KT calls. So I think we give villian a chance to make a smaller mistake (valuebetting a worse hand and/or bluffing) more frequently and we do better overall.

 

[Lehigh98]

Hey Assani,

I'm planning a poker-centric trip out there for a few days in late April.

Haven't been out there for a year or so and haven't been keeping up with 2+2 or room review sites.

I know its not your game but any input on the current state of 1/2NL out there?

Hearing anything on where the good spots are to make some $ or what the good websites are now to check this out?

Thanks!

 

[Alias]

Hey Assani,I'm planning a poker-centric trip out there for a few days in late April.Haven't been out there for a year or so and haven't been keeping up with 2+2 or room review sites.I know its not your game but any input on the current state of 1/2NL out there?Hearing anything on where the good spots are to make some $ or what the good websites are now to check this out?Thanks!

I just got back, your best bets IMHO are:MGM 1-2: lot's of tourists, few locals from what I could tellWynn 1-3: allows $500 buy-in, really plays like 2-5, lots of donks playing way over their heads in this game, 15-20 PF raises were commonjust value bet, keep the bluffing to a minimum, don't chase draws, play position, TAG etc...

 

[Dexter Manley]

I've got that same Magic-Bird poster hanging on my living room wall.

 

[Assani Fisher]

You had the almost nuts at that point with only 1 more card to go....what were you worried about? Edit to add: Nevermind, I see that he could have had A 10.

IMO, if he has it, he has it. It's just a sick cooler at the end of the day. Stick it in there and hope it holds. NH

Its a "sick cooler" for HE, but for PLO or PLO8 2nd nut full house will run into nut full house(or even quads) on a fairly regular basis. Moreover, I think we have to realize what my cold call on the flop tells him: I have an ace, and most likely I have 3 live cards for a full house.I've played with him before, and I think its +EV to sit with him, but hes still a $5/10 regular, so hes definitely a thinking player. I suppose you could argue that theres more combos of AK than AT and you could also argue that he'd play that way with AQ.....so yeah overall I guess I agree with you guys and I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing here, but I dunno, I still kinda feel as if it was a spot I had to stop and think about before acting.

 

[Assani Fisher]

actually went and played some live poker last night! Had 3 somewhat interesting hands to discuss, which I posted in today's blog:

http://www.leggopoker.com/blogs/IcyPots/

1. check-call

1. You have the second nuts. If you check-call, you give him a chance to get to showdown for free with any of the non nut hands, but pay him off when he has the nuts. That seems like a bad idea to me. I think it's less likely villain will shove the river with KT, 22, 55, 99, or TT on a KT259 board with no flushes than that he'd call a shove with the third or fourth nuts. If you plan on calling his all in no matter what, you should be the one who bets.

Hand 1: I agree with Truck that k/c is a better line. Assani's own analysis says TT (or 22/55 I suppose) would have given more action. Discount those in villian's range and QJ way outnumbers 99 combos and the latter won't call 100% of the time. Doesn't matter that villian gets to show down KT "for free" if he won't call with it. Assani's range looks very polarized (QJ/KK/bluff) after epraise/pot/pot/allin, and I think it's difficult for Assani to have bluffing hands left in his range that KT beats (AAxx but that's going to be very infrequent, if at all). So I think it's very unlikely that KT calls. So I think we give villian a chance to make a smaller mistake (valuebetting a worse hand and/or bluffing) more frequently and we do better overall.

I think this is a fairly interesting spot tbh. I may post about it on 2p2, as I'm really not a PLO hi only expert at all and I'm sure I could get some decent thoughts there.I'll link the thread if/when I post it.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Hey Assani,I'm planning a poker-centric trip out there for a few days in late April.Haven't been out there for a year or so and haven't been keeping up with 2+2 or room review sites.I know its not your game but any input on the current state of 1/2NL out there?Hearing anything on where the good spots are to make some $ or what the good websites are now to check this out?Thanks!

Imo the best place to play as far as having good dealers, good comps, good staff, etc. is Wynn with the Venetian as a close second(with no other casino really all that close). If you just want to play in the softest possible $1/2 games then MGM may be the best bet, although really its just going to be dumb luck of whether or not you happen to get a few total idiots at your table, and you can find idiots at $1/2 at every casino(as I said, its just a matter of getting lucky and running into them when you're playing).As for websites, check out allvegaspoker.com. They have tournament listings, user reviews, professional reviews, and a message board. You should be able to get all the info you need there.edited to add: twoplustwo B&M forum isn't bad either, but definitely search before starting a new topic there because I'm sure those questions have been asked before.

 

[Assani Fisher]

I've got that same Magic-Bird poster hanging on my living room wall.

nice...I'm gonna start a thread soon specifically about that here on fbg. Will link to it in this thread.

 

[Assani Fisher]

actually went and played some live poker last night! Had 3 somewhat interesting hands to discuss, which I posted in today's blog:

http://www.leggopoker.com/blogs/IcyPots/

1. check-call

1. You have the second nuts. If you check-call, you give him a chance to get to showdown for free with any of the non nut hands, but pay him off when he has the nuts. That seems like a bad idea to me. I think it's less likely villain will shove the river with KT, 22, 55, 99, or TT on a KT259 board with no flushes than that he'd call a shove with the third or fourth nuts. If you plan on calling his all in no matter what, you should be the one who bets.

Hand 1: I agree with Truck that k/c is a better line. Assani's own analysis says TT (or 22/55 I suppose) would have given more action. Discount those in villian's range and QJ way outnumbers 99 combos and the latter won't call 100% of the time. Doesn't matter that villian gets to show down KT "for free" if he won't call with it. Assani's range looks very polarized (QJ/KK/bluff) after epraise/pot/pot/allin, and I think it's difficult for Assani to have bluffing hands left in his range that KT beats (AAxx but that's going to be very infrequent, if at all). So I think it's very unlikely that KT calls. So I think we give villian a chance to make a smaller mistake (valuebetting a worse hand and/or bluffing) more frequently and we do better overall.

I think this is a fairly interesting spot tbh. I may post about it on 2p2, as I'm really not a PLO hi only expert at all and I'm sure I could get some decent thoughts there.I'll link the thread if/when I post it.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38/omaha...37/#post9547493

Hopefully that'll generate some decent discussion.

 

[Assani Fisher]

somewhat interesting hand that just occured. I had been pretty aggro with preflop raises and automatic c-bets. Thoughts on the flop call and play on subsequent streets?

PokerStars Game #26320484249: Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit ($1/$2) - 2009/03/24 17:53:50 ET

Table 'Underhill' 9-max Seat #9 is the button

Seat 1: Fedigan221 ($203.70 in chips)

Seat 2: greenteaguy ($116 in chips)

Seat 3: tkbowler ($54.70 in chips)

Seat 4: zky5 ($181 in chips)

Seat 5: oscar ($308.85 in chips)

Seat 6: mrcmcc ($158.60 in chips)

Seat 7: jwvdcw ($321.45 in chips)

Seat 8: mesanjohn ($199 in chips)

Seat 9: pqmr ($24 in chips)

Fedigan221: posts small blind $1

greenteaguy: posts big blind $2

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [8h Qd 2c Ac]

tkbowler: folds

zky5: folds

oscar: folds

mrcmcc: folds

jwvdcw: raises $4 to $6

mesanjohn: folds

pqmr: folds

Fedigan221: folds

greenteaguy: calls $4

*** FLOP *** [Jd Ks 5h]

greenteaguy: checks

jwvdcw: bets $8

greenteaguy: raises $8 to $16

jwvdcw: calls $8

*** TURN *** [Jd Ks 5h] [3d]

greenteaguy: bets $18

jwvdcw: calls $18

*** RIVER *** [Jd Ks 5h 3d] [8s]

greenteaguy: bets $76 and is all-in

jwvdcw: calls $76

*** SHOW DOWN ***

greenteaguy: shows [3s 2d 7s Ah] (HI: a pair of Threes; LO: 8,5,3,2,A)

jwvdcw: shows [8h Qd 2c Ac] (HI: a pair of Eights; LO: 8,5,3,2,A)

jwvdcw collected $115 from pot

greenteaguy collected $57.50 from pot

jwvdcw collected $57.50 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $233 | Rake $3

Board [Jd Ks 5h 3d 8s]

Seat 1: Fedigan221 (small blind) folded before Flop

Seat 2: greenteaguy (big blind) showed [3s 2d 7s Ah] and won ($57.50) with HI: a pair of Threes; LO: 8,5,3,2,A

Seat 3: tkbowler folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 4: zky5 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 5: oscar folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 6: mrcmcc folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 7: jwvdcw showed [8h Qd 2c Ac] and won ($172.50) with HI: a pair of Eights; LO: 8,5,3,2,A

Seat 8: mesanjohn folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 9: pqmr (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Eagerly waiting for the optimal pickup basketball strategy.

 

[bostonfred]

I don't love the flop call. You really need to think there's a good chance he gets all in on a scary board or that you can push him off on a later street. If you catch a ten on the turn, you're willing to get all in but he may not be because he can't catch a low and there will be three to broadway on the board. You have no flush draw. A 3, 4, 6, 7, or 8 on the turn gives you a redraw to a chop pot, but you have to think you're way behind for high, and you won't get a lot of chips in with anything short of running low cards or a ten. As it turns out it was a bluff raise and you were ahead, but you couldn't know that, and you were way behind just about any pair.

So your odds of catching a card that will make you continue after the turn (a low card or ten) are 50/50, but your odds of catching the nut high are a little less than 1 in 8 (counting running flush cards) and catching running low cards that don't counterfeit your A2 are about 1 in 8.5, but almost certainly lead to a chop (again, ignoring his actual hand).

To call 8 to win 131, you have to expect him to get all in when you catch the nuts on the turn on a three broadway board with no redraw to the low possible. And you're committing to putting money in the pot on the turn if you pick up a redraw to the low. I don't think the stacks were quite deep enough, or the pot big enough, to make this a profitable call.

 

[Your Mother]

Re: the 5/10 PLO hand...

The key piece of info. for me was that this guy's fishy and is prone to be making bluffs. Had you read him as being a solid player, I would just bet out, or maybe consider c/f'ing. It seems like some people in the 2p2 thread are discounting that info., or ignoring it altogether. I don't have any experience at these stakes, but I've found that bad players love to call down to the river, and then try to pounce if you check 5th, interpreting it as a sign of weakness. The c/c has always been a profitable play for me with medium-ish strength hands.

That said, I don't think betting is horrible. I think it's pretty close. And I agree with you that folding here in a live game doesn't seem like a good option at all. I think you're correctly widening your range of what you'd call down to account for this guy's looseness/fishiness.

 

[Your Mother]

I don't love the flop call. You really need to think there's a good chance he gets all in on a scary board or that you can push him off on a later street. If you catch a ten on the turn, you're willing to get all in but he may not be because he can't catch a low and there will be three to broadway on the board. You have no flush draw. A 3, 4, 6, 7, or 8 on the turn gives you a redraw to a chop pot, but you have to think you're way behind for high, and you won't get a lot of chips in with anything short of running low cards or a ten. As it turns out it was a bluff raise and you were ahead, but you couldn't know that, and you were way behind just about any pair. So your odds of catching a card that will make you continue after the turn (a low card or ten) are 50/50, but your odds of catching the nut high are a little less than 1 in 8 (counting running flush cards) and catching running low cards that don't counterfeit your A2 are about 1 in 8.5, but almost certainly lead to a chop (again, ignoring his actual hand). To call 8 to win 131, you have to expect him to get all in when you catch the nuts on the turn on a three broadway board with no redraw to the low possible. And you're committing to putting money in the pot on the turn if you pick up a redraw to the low. I don't think the stacks were quite deep enough, or the pot big enough, to make this a profitable call.

I agree with Fred re: the flop.Villain's very tricky here repping a high hand, the check/min-raise is very clever. You've got this bluff beat, but not much else in his range. I'd dump it to the raise, or check a fair number of flops like this and just take the free card.

 

[munga30]

Hand 1: I agree with Truck that k/c is a better line. Assani's own analysis says TT (or 22/55 I suppose) would have given more action. Discount those in villian's range and QJ way outnumbers 99 combos and the latter won't call 100% of the time. Doesn't matter that villian gets to show down KT "for free" if he won't call with it. Assani's range looks very polarized (QJ/KK/bluff) after epraise/pot/pot/allin, and I think it's difficult for Assani to have bluffing hands left in his range that KT beats (AAxx but that's going to be very infrequent, if at all). So I think it's very unlikely that KT calls. So I think we give villian a chance to make a smaller mistake (valuebetting a worse hand and/or bluffing) more frequently and we do better overall.

I think this is a fairly interesting spot tbh. I may post about it on 2p2, as I'm really not a PLO hi only expert at all and I'm sure I could get some decent thoughts there.I'll link the thread if/when I post it.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38/omaha...37/#post9547493

Hopefully that'll generate some decent discussion.

From the 2+2 thread:"given your reads and the stack/pot ratios i think you have to go for a crai on the turn, by potting the turn you give yourself an awkward river decision, where only your live reads can help you"

This is the answer, I think. Given the psb on the turn, I'm starting to waver between check-call and check-fold. Check-raising the turn solves that problem. Yes, it gives QJ an opp at a free card, but since that's the only draw out there and it will be super easy to see if it gets there, I think it's worth the missed value from KT the portion of draws that call a turn psb.

 

[Your Mother]

Hand 1: I agree with Truck that k/c is a better line. Assani's own analysis says TT (or 22/55 I suppose) would have given more action. Discount those in villian's range and QJ way outnumbers 99 combos and the latter won't call 100% of the time. Doesn't matter that villian gets to show down KT "for free" if he won't call with it. Assani's range looks very polarized (QJ/KK/bluff) after epraise/pot/pot/allin, and I think it's difficult for Assani to have bluffing hands left in his range that KT beats (AAxx but that's going to be very infrequent, if at all). So I think it's very unlikely that KT calls. So I think we give villian a chance to make a smaller mistake (valuebetting a worse hand and/or bluffing) more frequently and we do better overall.

I think this is a fairly interesting spot tbh. I may post about it on 2p2, as I'm really not a PLO hi only expert at all and I'm sure I could get some decent thoughts there.I'll link the thread if/when I post it.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38/omaha...37/#post9547493

Hopefully that'll generate some decent discussion.

From the 2+2 thread:"given your reads and the stack/pot ratios i think you have to go for a crai on the turn, by potting the turn you give yourself an awkward river decision, where only your live reads can help you"

This is the answer, I think. Given the psb on the turn, I'm starting to waver between check-call and check-fold. Check-raising the turn solves that problem. Yes, it gives QJ an opp at a free card, but since that's the only draw out there and it will be super easy to see if it gets there, I think it's worth the missed value from KT the portion of draws that call a turn psb.

Phew, it took me a couple minutes to figure out what a "crai" was.

 

[Assani Fisher]

interesting hand...would take me a while to explain all of my reads on DaveBreal, as hes a high stakes reg and a good LAG player, but those reads definitely factored in here

PokerStars Game #26367808804: Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit ($2/$4) - 2009/03/25 22:45:19 ET

Table 'Carnegia' 9-max Seat #8 is the button

Seat 1: jwvdcw ($400 in chips)

Seat 2: Exit4afilm2 ($352.45 in chips)

Seat 3: Veron7777 ($219.60 in chips)

Seat 4: GeometryWars ($540.45 in chips)

Seat 5: davebreal ($971.85 in chips)

Seat 6: Missadoon ($80 in chips)

Seat 7: alphagav ($130.85 in chips)

Seat 8: NAIRO ($153.60 in chips)

Seat 9: i stravinsky ($263.75 in chips)

i stravinsky: posts small blind $2

jwvdcw: posts big blind $4

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [Ad Kc 2s Ts]

Exit4afilm2: folds

Veron7777: folds

GeometryWars: calls $4

davebreal: calls $4

Missadoon: folds

alphagav: folds

Veron7777 leaves the table

NAIRO: folds

i stravinsky: calls $2

jwvdcw: checks

*** FLOP *** [4c Tc 7d]

Sabre31 joins the table at seat #3

i stravinsky: checks

jwvdcw: bets $12

GeometryWars: calls $12

davebreal: raises $955.85 to $967.85 and is all-in

i stravinsky: folds

jwvdcw: calls $384 and is all-in

GeometryWars: folds

Uncalled bet ($571.85) returned to davebreal

*** TURN *** [4c Tc 7d] [8h]

*** RIVER *** [4c Tc 7d 8h] [3s]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

jwvdcw: shows [Ad Kc 2s Ts] (HI: a pair of Tens; LO: 7,4,3,2,A)

davebreal: mucks hand

jwvdcw collected $408.50 from pot

jwvdcw collected $408.50 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $820 | Rake $3

Board [4c Tc 7d 8h 3s]

Seat 1: jwvdcw (big blind) showed [Ad Kc 2s Ts] and won ($817) with HI: a pair of Tens; LO: 7,4,3,2,A

Seat 2: Exit4afilm2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 3: Veron7777 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 4: GeometryWars folded on the Flop

Seat 5: davebreal mucked [Jc 6c Ac 8c]

Seat 6: Missadoon folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 7: alphagav folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 8: NAIRO (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 9: i stravinsky (small blind) folded on the Flop

 

[r0llin_game]

interesting hand...would take me a while to explain all of my reads on DaveBreal, as hes a high stakes reg and a good LAG player, but those reads definitely factored in herePokerStars Game #26367808804: Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit ($2/$4) - 2009/03/25 22:45:19 ETTable 'Carnegia' 9-max Seat #8 is the buttonSeat 1: jwvdcw ($400 in chips) Seat 2: Exit4afilm2 ($352.45 in chips) Seat 3: Veron7777 ($219.60 in chips) Seat 4: GeometryWars ($540.45 in chips) Seat 5: davebreal ($971.85 in chips) Seat 6: Missadoon ($80 in chips) Seat 7: alphagav ($130.85 in chips) Seat 8: NAIRO ($153.60 in chips) Seat 9: i stravinsky ($263.75 in chips) i stravinsky: posts small blind $2jwvdcw: posts big blind $4*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jwvdcw [Ad Kc 2s Ts]Exit4afilm2: folds Veron7777: folds GeometryWars: calls $4davebreal: calls $4Missadoon: folds alphagav: folds Veron7777 leaves the tableNAIRO: folds i stravinsky: calls $2jwvdcw: checks *** FLOP *** [4c Tc 7d]Sabre31 joins the table at seat #3 i stravinsky: checks jwvdcw: bets $12GeometryWars: calls $12davebreal: raises $955.85 to $967.85 and is all-ini stravinsky: folds jwvdcw: calls $384 and is all-inGeometryWars: folds Uncalled bet ($571.85) returned to davebreal*** TURN *** [4c Tc 7d] [8h]*** RIVER *** [4c Tc 7d 8h] [3s]*** SHOW DOWN ***jwvdcw: shows [Ad Kc 2s Ts] (HI: a pair of Tens; LO: 7,4,3,2,A)davebreal: mucks hand jwvdcw collected $408.50 from potjwvdcw collected $408.50 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $820 | Rake $3 Board [4c Tc 7d 8h 3s]Seat 1: jwvdcw (big blind) showed [Ad Kc 2s Ts] and won ($817) with HI: a pair of Tens; LO: 7,4,3,2,ASeat 2: Exit4afilm2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: Veron7777 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: GeometryWars folded on the FlopSeat 5: davebreal mucked [Jc 6c Ac 8c]Seat 6: Missadoon folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: alphagav folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 8: NAIRO (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 9: i stravinsky (small blind) folded on the Flop

That does look like a pretty awful shove. I understand he has the nut flush draw, and a low draw, but the low draw ain't even to the nuts, and he's outted himself of 2 additional flush outs. That's a pretty sick read and one sick hold.

 

[Assani Fisher]

proof PLO8 games are good imo.....

PokerStars Game #26374574088: Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2009/03/26 5:31:45 ET

Table 'Fricke III' 9-max Seat #1 is the button

Seat 1: skill_vacuum ($55.10 in chips)

Seat 2: DBHolden ($74.75 in chips)

Seat 3: BadBoyLaz ($59.55 in chips)

Seat 4: par72bb ($20.90 in chips)

Seat 5: jwvdcw ($171.05 in chips)

Seat 6: sansai_ramen ($104 in chips)

Seat 8: k a |2 k y ($100 in chips)

DBHolden: posts small blind $0.50

BadBoyLaz: posts big blind $1

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [2d Kd Ah 7s]

par72bb: calls $1

jwvdcw: raises $3.50 to $4.50

sansai_ramen: folds

k a |2 k y: folds

skill_vacuum: folds

DBHolden: folds

BadBoyLaz: folds

par72bb: calls $3.50

*** FLOP *** [Tc Kc 4h]

par72bb: checks

jwvdcw: bets $8

par72bb: calls $8

*** TURN *** [Tc Kc 4h] [2s]

par72bb: checks

jwvdcw: bets $9

par72bb: calls $8.40 and is all-in

Uncalled bet ($0.60) returned to jwvdcw

*** RIVER *** [Tc Kc 4h 2s] [Jc]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

par72bb: shows [5d Jd Jh Th] (HI: three of a kind, Jacks)

jwvdcw: mucks hand

par72bb collected $41.20 from pot

No low hand qualified

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $43.30 | Rake $2.10

Board [Tc Kc 4h 2s Jc]

Seat 1: skill_vacuum (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 2: DBHolden (small blind) folded before Flop

Seat 3: BadBoyLaz (big blind) folded before Flop

Seat 4: par72bb showed [5d Jd Jh Th] and won ($41.20) with HI: three of a kind, Jacks

Seat 5: jwvdcw mucked [2d Kd Ah 7s]

Seat 6: sansai_ramen folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 8: k a |2 k y folded before Flop (didn't bet)

 

[bostonfred]

That does look like a pretty awful shove. I understand he has the nut flush draw, and a low draw, but the low draw ain't even to the nuts, and he's outted himself of 2 additional flush outs. That's a pretty sick read and one sick hold.

He's also got 5s and 9s to the straight, and all of his outs except the 9s are live to at least a chop, because he's got the nut flush draw and the 5 gives him a better low than anyone with a set or a wrap could have. As it turns out, he also has jacks against Assani's pair of tens. Assani's all-in call with a bare pair of tens and a bare A2 with no protection is not a great situation. Sure, he might be ahead with TPTK on the flop, and he might be the only one with the A2 draw, but he's so vulnerable with both of those holdings. I'd be interested in hearing more about this read, because I don't see it.

 

[Lehigh98]

I just got back, your best bets IMHO are:

MGM 1-2: lot's of tourists, few locals from what I could tell

Wynn 1-3: allows $500 buy-in, really plays like 2-5, lots of donks playing way over their heads in this game, 15-20 PF raises were common

just value bet, keep the bluffing to a minimum, don't chase draws, play position, TAG etc...

Imo the best place to play as far as having good dealers, good comps, good staff, etc. is Wynn with the Venetian as a close second(with no other casino really all that close). If you just want to play in the softest possible $1/2 games then MGM may be the best bet, although really its just going to be dumb luck of whether or not you happen to get a few total idiots at your table, and you can find idiots at $1/2 at every casino(as I said, its just a matter of getting lucky and running into them when you're playing).

Thanks for the responses guys, two more questions...1. The guys I'm going with subscribe to the "don't play before dinner on weekdays" theory.

On our last trip, it seemed like they had something as the daytime crowd was pretty old and rocky.

I sometimes use the "use the east coast jetlag to get up early and catch people at the end of all nighters" myself.

Any thoughts or strategies on times to play or avoid at Wynn, Venetian, and MGM?

2a. Have there been any good books released on 1/2NL over the past couple of years?

(The last one I picked up was Angel Largay's No-Limit Texas Hold'em: A Complete Course .)

Edit to add 2b...

Are there any good poker podcasts or video downloads I could take with me and watch on the long flight over specific to small no limit games and strategy? Haven't really explored this in the past but with the explosion of podcasting and YouTube I'm guessing there might be something out there?

Thanks again!

 

[r0llin_game]

That does look like a pretty awful shove. I understand he has the nut flush draw, and a low draw, but the low draw ain't even to the nuts, and he's outted himself of 2 additional flush outs. That's a pretty sick read and one sick hold.

He's also got 5s and 9s to the straight, and all of his outs except the 9s are live to at least a chop, because he's got the nut flush draw and the 5 gives him a better low than anyone with a set or a wrap could have. As it turns out, he also has jacks against Assani's pair of tens. Assani's all-in call with a bare pair of tens and a bare A2 with no protection is not a great situation. Sure, he might be ahead with TPTK on the flop, and he might be the only one with the A2 draw, but he's so vulnerable with both of those holdings. I'd be interested in hearing more about this read, because I don't see it.

Whoops missed the wrap lol.

 

[Mike Shanahan Fan]

Since most of the poker talk is now concentrated in this thread, I'll post a hand up here for comment and discussion:

Qualifier for a tournament, where 7 people move on, 8 left. Blinds are 2K/4K with antes of 400.

You are UTG +2 with 44K left, which is good for 5th out of 8th in chips. The small stack (25K) and the big stack (80K) have folded ahead of you. BB has 72K, and everyone else you have covered or are close enough to cripple them. You pick up JJ.

Fold or push? Or standard-raise to 3x? What is the plan if we're called/raised? If we push, we win a little over 9K if nobody calls. If we call and win, we can fold the rest of the way. If we get called and lose, we're in serious trouble or we're out.

Thoughts?

 

[moderated]

Since most of the poker talk is now concentrated in this thread, I'll post a hand up here for comment and discussion:Qualifier for a tournament, where 7 people move on, 8 left. Blinds are 2K/4K with antes of 400.You are UTG +2 with 44K left, which is good for 5th out of 8th in chips. The small stack (25K) and the big stack (80K) have folded ahead of you. BB has 72K, and everyone else you have covered or are close enough to cripple them. You pick up JJ.Fold or push? Or standard-raise to 3x? What is the plan if we're called/raised? If we push, we win a little over 9K if nobody calls. If we call and win, we can fold the rest of the way. If we get called and lose, we're in serious trouble or we're out. Thoughts?

easy fold.

 

[eoMMan]

Since most of the poker talk is now concentrated in this thread, I'll post a hand up here for comment and discussion:Qualifier for a tournament, where 7 people move on, 8 left. Blinds are 2K/4K with antes of 400.You are UTG +2 with 44K left, which is good for 5th out of 8th in chips. The small stack (25K) and the big stack (80K) have folded ahead of you. BB has 72K, and everyone else you have covered or are close enough to cripple them. You pick up JJ.Fold or push? Or standard-raise to 3x? What is the plan if we're called/raised? If we push, we win a little over 9K if nobody calls. If we call and win, we can fold the rest of the way. If we get called and lose, we're in serious trouble or we're out. Thoughts?

easy fold.

Not with JJ....I'd call or raise here. Probably 3x raise. I doubt you'll get pushed all in unless someone is sitting on a bigger pocket pair. If you do get a call and there are no overs on the flop, I'd push all in.

 

[moderated]

Since most of the poker talk is now concentrated in this thread, I'll post a hand up here for comment and discussion:Qualifier for a tournament, where 7 people move on, 8 left. Blinds are 2K/4K with antes of 400.You are UTG +2 with 44K left, which is good for 5th out of 8th in chips. The small stack (25K) and the big stack (80K) have folded ahead of you. BB has 72K, and everyone else you have covered or are close enough to cripple them. You pick up JJ.Fold or push? Or standard-raise to 3x? What is the plan if we're called/raised? If we push, we win a little over 9K if nobody calls. If we call and win, we can fold the rest of the way. If we get called and lose, we're in serious trouble or we're out. Thoughts?

easy fold.

Not with JJ....I'd call or raise here. Probably 3x raise. I doubt you'll get pushed all in unless someone is sitting on a bigger pocket pair. If you do get a call and there are no overs on the flop, I'd push all in.

It's a satellite with only one person needing to go out to qualify for the tourney and he has almost double the small stack.Easy fold, no need to risk anything here.

 

[Mike Shanahan Fan]

Since most of the poker talk is now concentrated in this thread, I'll post a hand up here for comment and discussion:Qualifier for a tournament, where 7 people move on, 8 left. Blinds are 2K/4K with antes of 400.You are UTG +2 with 44K left, which is good for 5th out of 8th in chips. The small stack (25K) and the big stack (80K) have folded ahead of you. BB has 72K, and everyone else you have covered or are close enough to cripple them. You pick up JJ.Fold or push? Or standard-raise to 3x? What is the plan if we're called/raised? If we push, we win a little over 9K if nobody calls. If we call and win, we can fold the rest of the way. If we get called and lose, we're in serious trouble or we're out. Thoughts?

easy fold.

Not with JJ....I'd call or raise here. Probably 3x raise. I doubt you'll get pushed all in unless someone is sitting on a bigger pocket pair. If you do get a call and there are no overs on the flop, I'd push all in.

Calling's out. I'd much rather just fold. Even a 3x raise gives a big stack an opening to see a flop against me and try to end it.My thinking was that if I took this one down, I could shut it down safely and wait for someone else to go out. And I knew I had tremendous fold equity + a strong hand. I didn't want to slow down and get passed by the other players below me, it wouldn't have been that difficult for them to win a hand or two.

 

[moderated]

Since most of the poker talk is now concentrated in this thread, I'll post a hand up here for comment and discussion:Qualifier for a tournament, where 7 people move on, 8 left. Blinds are 2K/4K with antes of 400.You are UTG +2 with 44K left, which is good for 5th out of 8th in chips. The small stack (25K) and the big stack (80K) have folded ahead of you. BB has 72K, and everyone else you have covered or are close enough to cripple them. You pick up JJ.Fold or push? Or standard-raise to 3x? What is the plan if we're called/raised? If we push, we win a little over 9K if nobody calls. If we call and win, we can fold the rest of the way. If we get called and lose, we're in serious trouble or we're out. Thoughts?

easy fold.

Not with JJ....I'd call or raise here. Probably 3x raise. I doubt you'll get pushed all in unless someone is sitting on a bigger pocket pair. If you do get a call and there are no overs on the flop, I'd push all in.

Calling's out. I'd much rather just fold. Even a 3x raise gives a big stack an opening to see a flop against me and try to end it.My thinking was that if I took this one down, I could shut it down safely and wait for someone else to go out. And I knew I had tremendous fold equity + a strong hand. I didn't want to slow down and get passed by the other players below me, it wouldn't have been that difficult for them to win a hand or two.

So did you end up screwing yourself?

 

[Mike Shanahan Fan]

Since most of the poker talk is now concentrated in this thread, I'll post a hand up here for comment and discussion:Qualifier for a tournament, where 7 people move on, 8 left. Blinds are 2K/4K with antes of 400.You are UTG +2 with 44K left, which is good for 5th out of 8th in chips. The small stack (25K) and the big stack (80K) have folded ahead of you. BB has 72K, and everyone else you have covered or are close enough to cripple them. You pick up JJ.Fold or push? Or standard-raise to 3x? What is the plan if we're called/raised? If we push, we win a little over 9K if nobody calls. If we call and win, we can fold the rest of the way. If we get called and lose, we're in serious trouble or we're out. Thoughts?

easy fold.

Not with JJ....I'd call or raise here. Probably 3x raise. I doubt you'll get pushed all in unless someone is sitting on a bigger pocket pair. If you do get a call and there are no overs on the flop, I'd push all in.

Calling's out. I'd much rather just fold. Even a 3x raise gives a big stack an opening to see a flop against me and try to end it.My thinking was that if I took this one down, I could shut it down safely and wait for someone else to go out. And I knew I had tremendous fold equity + a strong hand. I didn't want to slow down and get passed by the other players below me, it wouldn't have been that difficult for them to win a hand or two.

So did you end up screwing yourself?

BB (77K) called with AQ and won to end the tourney.I have no doubt in my mind that the call with AQ is really terrible on the bubble of a qualifier. Even calling with AA here is questionable. I'm not second-guessing myself from a results standpoint or trying to justify a play that bubbled me, I think it's a legitimately tough call. This did happen on CakePoker, not Stars, and the play there isn't as good. Which possibly should've leaned me towards a fold, given that I wouldn't have enough fold equity, and there's a better chance a smaller stack would've done something rash and gotten eliminated. But everyone was playing very cautiously once it was down to the last table.

 

[moderated]

BB (77K) called with AQ and won to end the tourney.I have no doubt in my mind that the call with AQ is really terrible on the bubble of a qualifier. Even calling with AA here is questionable. I'm not second-guessing myself from a results standpoint or trying to justify a play that bubbled me, I think it's a legitimately tough call. This did happen on CakePoker, not Stars, and the play there isn't as good. Which possibly should've leaned me towards a fold, given that I wouldn't have enough fold equity, and there's a better chance a smaller stack would've done something rash and gotten eliminated. But everyone was playing very cautiously once it was down to the last table.

it was a very easy fold. You had 3 others with less chips then you and had the short stack almost doubled. Also you had no chips invested in the pot (outside of the antes).Honestly i really can't see any justification for you to get involved in the hand in the first place.His play may with AQ may have been bad, but you even getting involved in the first place is far worse.Lots of people play horrible at the end of satellites so all you can do is learn from it and not make boneheaded mistakes like that again.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

A shove with JJ is not awful, but it really depends on the players left behind. If they are somewhat thinking players, it is good, but if they are terrible, then the shove is bad. And I don't think you'll make many mistakes by assuming everyone is awful unless proven otherwise.

 

[Mike Shanahan Fan]

BB (77K) called with AQ and won to end the tourney.I have no doubt in my mind that the call with AQ is really terrible on the bubble of a qualifier. Even calling with AA here is questionable. I'm not second-guessing myself from a results standpoint or trying to justify a play that bubbled me, I think it's a legitimately tough call. This did happen on CakePoker, not Stars, and the play there isn't as good. Which possibly should've leaned me towards a fold, given that I wouldn't have enough fold equity, and there's a better chance a smaller stack would've done something rash and gotten eliminated. But everyone was playing very cautiously once it was down to the last table.

it was a very easy fold. You had 3 others with less chips then you and had the short stack almost doubled. Also you had no chips invested in the pot (outside of the antes).Honestly i really can't see any justification for you to get involved in the hand in the first place.His play may with AQ may have been bad, but you even getting involved in the first place is far worse.Lots of people play horrible at the end of satellites so all you can do is learn from it and not make boneheaded mistakes like that again.

1) You're dead wrong about my push being worse than his call. His call is indisputably bad: he can fold all the way through and win anyway, if he loses he puts himself in danger of being knocked out. My push is open for debate. You are being results-oriented.2) I did have a chip lead on three others, but the blinds are so high that it would've been easy to get bumped down to the bottom. I had 11 BB left, the short-stack had 7 BB left, and the other two were around 9-10 BB. And each orbit woiuld've costed me around 2.5BB. If the blinds are 500/1K, I would've dumped it, or made a standard raise with very little commitment behind it. Relatively speaking, my lead on the other three players below me was very thin.

 

[moderated]

1) You're dead wrong about my push being worse than his call. His call is indisputably bad: he can fold all the way through and win anyway, if he loses he puts himself in danger of being knocked out. My push is open for debate. You are being results-oriented.2) I did have a chip lead on three others, but the blinds are so high that it would've been easy to get bumped down to the bottom. I had 11 BB left, the short-stack had 7 BB left, and the other two were around 9-10 BB. And each orbit woiuld've costed me around 2.5BB. If the blinds are 500/1K, I would've dumped it, or made a standard raise with very little commitment behind it. Relatively speaking, my lead on the other three players below me was very thin.

you don't understand satellite play.where's assani fisher to end this debate.

 

[culdeus]

Seat 1: jwvdcw (big blind) showed [Ad Kc 2s Ts] and won ($817) with HI: a pair of Tens; LO: 7,4,3,2,A

yikes

 

[Mike Shanahan Fan]

1) You're dead wrong about my push being worse than his call. His call is indisputably bad: he can fold all the way through and win anyway, if he loses he puts himself in danger of being knocked out. My push is open for debate. You are being results-oriented.2) I did have a chip lead on three others, but the blinds are so high that it would've been easy to get bumped down to the bottom. I had 11 BB left, the short-stack had 7 BB left, and the other two were around 9-10 BB. And each orbit woiuld've costed me around 2.5BB. If the blinds are 500/1K, I would've dumped it, or made a standard raise with very little commitment behind it. Relatively speaking, my lead on the other three players below me was very thin.

you don't understand satellite play.where's assani fisher to end this debate.

You're wrong. I fully understand the point is to qualify, which drastically changes the normal poker equations. I've open-folded QQ deep in satellites before. I am a very strong satellite player, it suits my style much better than a standard tourney. But I was no lock to qualify here.If you were in the BB in this situation with AQ, and an MP pushes in for 44K, and you have 75-ish left, with blinds at 2K/4K, would you call? I would insta-fold. I would insta-fold literally anything in this spot, actually.I'd be willing to make a bet that Assani believes that the AQ call is worse than the JJ push.

 

[Lehigh98]

I just got back, your best bets IMHO are:

MGM 1-2: lot's of tourists, few locals from what I could tell

Wynn 1-3: allows $500 buy-in, really plays like 2-5, lots of donks playing way over their heads in this game, 15-20 PF raises were common

just value bet, keep the bluffing to a minimum, don't chase draws, play position, TAG etc...

Imo the best place to play as far as having good dealers, good comps, good staff, etc. is Wynn with the Venetian as a close second(with no other casino really all that close). If you just want to play in the softest possible $1/2 games then MGM may be the best bet, although really its just going to be dumb luck of whether or not you happen to get a few total idiots at your table, and you can find idiots at $1/2 at every casino(as I said, its just a matter of getting lucky and running into them when you're playing).

Thanks for the responses guys, two more questions...1. The guys I'm going with subscribe to the "don't play before dinner on weekdays" theory.

On our last trip, it seemed like they had something as the daytime crowd was pretty old and rocky.

I sometimes use the "use the east coast jetlag to get up early and catch people at the end of all nighters" myself.

Any thoughts or strategies on times to play or avoid at Wynn, Venetian, and MGM?

2a. Have there been any good books released on 1/2NL over the past couple of years?

(The last one I picked up was Angel Largay's No-Limit Texas Hold'em: A Complete Course .)

Edit to add 2b...

Are there any good poker podcasts or video downloads I could take with me and watch on the long flight over specific to small no limit games and strategy? Haven't really explored this in the past but with the explosion of podcasting and YouTube I'm guessing there might be something out there?

Adding a 3...

Which would be the best room to go and play while watching the NFL Draft?

(Good setup with TV's and maybe even the volume up to hear the discussion)

Thanks again!

 

[guru_007]

1) You're dead wrong about my push being worse than his call. His call is indisputably bad: he can fold all the way through and win anyway, if he loses he puts himself in danger of being knocked out. My push is open for debate. You are being results-oriented.2) I did have a chip lead on three others, but the blinds are so high that it would've been easy to get bumped down to the bottom. I had 11 BB left, the short-stack had 7 BB left, and the other two were around 9-10 BB. And each orbit woiuld've costed me around 2.5BB. If the blinds are 500/1K, I would've dumped it, or made a standard raise with very little commitment behind it. Relatively speaking, my lead on the other three players below me was very thin.

you don't understand satellite play.where's assani fisher to end this debate.

You're wrong. I fully understand the point is to qualify, which drastically changes the normal poker equations. I've open-folded QQ deep in satellites before. I am a very strong satellite player, it suits my style much better than a standard tourney. But I was no lock to qualify here.If you were in the BB in this situation with AQ, and an MP pushes in for 44K, and you have 75-ish left, with blinds at 2K/4K, would you call? I would insta-fold. I would insta-fold literally anything in this spot, actually.I'd be willing to make a bet that Assani believes that the AQ call is worse than the JJ push.

I hate the JJ push more than the AQ call. way out of position, the only time you are going to get called (probably) is by a hand that is crushing yours (AA, KK) or maybe a hand that is at least a coin flip to yours (AK). Although I don't think I would call with AQ, the BB did have you covered, and although his hand was questionable, he's not that weak. In an all or nothing satellite play like this, I think I'd be much more inclined to fold jj out of position then I would be to push. I know the blinds are creeping up there, but you're still in relatively good position to win, and I'd much rather play a hand in position, or wait for a better spot.

 

[spOOfy]

1) You're dead wrong about my push being worse than his call. His call is indisputably bad: he can fold all the way through and win anyway, if he loses he puts himself in danger of being knocked out. My push is open for debate. You are being results-oriented.2) I did have a chip lead on three others, but the blinds are so high that it would've been easy to get bumped down to the bottom. I had 11 BB left, the short-stack had 7 BB left, and the other two were around 9-10 BB. And each orbit woiuld've costed me around 2.5BB. If the blinds are 500/1K, I would've dumped it, or made a standard raise with very little commitment behind it. Relatively speaking, my lead on the other three players below me was very thin.

you don't understand satellite play.where's assani fisher to end this debate.

You're wrong. I fully understand the point is to qualify, which drastically changes the normal poker equations. I've open-folded QQ deep in satellites before. I am a very strong satellite player, it suits my style much better than a standard tourney. But I was no lock to qualify here.If you were in the BB in this situation with AQ, and an MP pushes in for 44K, and you have 75-ish left, with blinds at 2K/4K, would you call? I would insta-fold. I would insta-fold literally anything in this spot, actually.I'd be willing to make a bet that Assani believes that the AQ call is worse than the JJ push.

Does it really matter if the AQ call was worse? Who cares about that? We all know it was a risky, bad call. The thing you were asking about is whether your play of JJ was correct or not. Results-oriented or not, it was a bad play. If you came in hoping someone would you back up your play, you're wrong. As moderated has clearly stated, you were ahead of 3 players and were double the shortstack. There's no reason to risk it with a push here. The chances that all 3 players move ahead of you is a slim chance, but sure, it could happen. Then deal with that then. You'll have plenty of hands before that happens, and then maybe you can make a play like this.Lots of people make this mistake in sats. I, myself, have done this very thing you did. It's just not worth the push. Obviously, if you were the shortstack, it's the right play. Maybe even the 2nd shortest stack, although then it could depend on other chips stacks and whatnot. But in this spot, I think you need to fold it.

 

[Mike Shanahan Fan]

1) You're dead wrong about my push being worse than his call. His call is indisputably bad: he can fold all the way through and win anyway, if he loses he puts himself in danger of being knocked out. My push is open for debate. You are being results-oriented.2) I did have a chip lead on three others, but the blinds are so high that it would've been easy to get bumped down to the bottom. I had 11 BB left, the short-stack had 7 BB left, and the other two were around 9-10 BB. And each orbit woiuld've costed me around 2.5BB. If the blinds are 500/1K, I would've dumped it, or made a standard raise with very little commitment behind it. Relatively speaking, my lead on the other three players below me was very thin.

you don't understand satellite play.where's assani fisher to end this debate.

You're wrong. I fully understand the point is to qualify, which drastically changes the normal poker equations. I've open-folded QQ deep in satellites before. I am a very strong satellite player, it suits my style much better than a standard tourney. But I was no lock to qualify here.If you were in the BB in this situation with AQ, and an MP pushes in for 44K, and you have 75-ish left, with blinds at 2K/4K, would you call? I would insta-fold. I would insta-fold literally anything in this spot, actually.I'd be willing to make a bet that Assani believes that the AQ call is worse than the JJ push.

I hate the JJ push more than the AQ call. way out of position, the only time you are going to get called (probably) is by a hand that is crushing yours (AA, KK) or maybe a hand that is at least a coin flip to yours (AK). Although I don't think I would call with AQ, the BB did have you covered, and although his hand was questionable, he's not that weak. In an all or nothing satellite play like this, I think I'd be much more inclined to fold jj out of position then I would be to push. I know the blinds are creeping up there, but you're still in relatively good position to win, and I'd much rather play a hand in position, or wait for a better spot.

You're discounting the rather large (and rather probable) benefit of winning the hand without a call, which would take me from 11BB to about 14BB. Given that there were two others lurking around 9-10BB, and a short-stack at 6-7 BB, that's a pretty signficant gain. The BB had a 99% chance of winning if he folded all the way through. If he calls against an 11BB push and loses, he's dropped down to 7th, and cannot afford to sit on his laurels and hope someone else busts first. This is a chance you would take?If you don't push with JJ, which hands do you push with? If you're in auto-fold mode, how many BB's would you need to be ground down to before you start playing hands again? Do you think it's impossible that the three players ahead of me could've moved past me?

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

Do you think it's impossible that the three players ahead of me could've moved past me?

Impossible? No. Unlikely? Yes. You have to play the odds and not risk your chips in that spot. It was just a bad choice, we all make them. I play a lot of Double or Nothings which has a bubble structure like satellites do and I can tell you that I would fold JJ there 100% of the time. I would probably fold KK as well.

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

BTW there are currently 87 players on pace for SNE. From 2+2

87 players on pace

714,365

540,516 marchinvest2

527,903

503,705

458,390

450,962

415,457 spacegravy

408,108

405,728

396,909

373,564

372,236

371,430 stevie444

368,948 driverseati

357,325

355,040

354,278

338,045 RaSZi

336,822 slammedfire

330,965

327,335 dbeckham7467

326,379

325,246

318,353

315,961 nanonoko

310,446

308,464 knife420

301,092

714K is just ridiculous. If he kept that pace up he could buy 5 Porsches from the VIP store by the end of the year.

 

[guru_007]

You're discounting the rather large (and rather probable) benefit of winning the hand without a call, which would take me from 11BB to about 14BB. Given that there were two others lurking around 9-10BB, and a short-stack at 6-7 BB, that's a pretty signficant gain. The BB had a 99% chance of winning if he folded all the way through. If he calls against an 11BB push and loses, he's dropped down to 7th, and cannot afford to sit on his laurels and hope someone else busts first. This is a chance you would take?If you don't push with JJ, which hands do you push with? If you're in auto-fold mode, how many BB's would you need to be ground down to before you start playing hands again? Do you think it's impossible that the three players ahead of me could've moved past me?

nah, I understand that benefit - however in a satelite where 1-7th pay the same, and 8th pays zero, I don't necessarily need to accumulate chips to win the thing. Again, I'm not saying I would have made the call as the BB, but I don't hate the move - and a chance to knock out the last player while not being knocked out myself, is sometimes a chance you have to take. You mentioned everyone was playing over caustiously so maybe the BB thought you were making a move. He's ahead of a lot of hands, and unless you show AA, KK, or AK, he's got at least a fighting chance against everything else.As for what hands I would push with, it would depend. I'd look to attack middle and short stacks with most any live hand, so long as I could isolate. From early - middle position, honestly, I'd need AA to push. I still have 11 BB's, and I'm not near desperation mode yet.I certainly can understand your play - and you're probably right in that the BB needs to lay down most every hand - I just don't love the push there. There were smaller stacks who were way more desperate to gain chips around.How many BB's would I need to be down to before playing strong hands? That's a good question, and a lot would depend on the other players and the action that was going around. In this form of satellite I'd probably wait till I had 6 or so BB's before I started opening up my starting hand push requirements.

 

[Assani Fisher]

That does look like a pretty awful shove. I understand he has the nut flush draw, and a low draw, but the low draw ain't even to the nuts, and he's outted himself of 2 additional flush outs. That's a pretty sick read and one sick hold.

He's also got 5s and 9s to the straight, and all of his outs except the 9s are live to at least a chop, because he's got the nut flush draw and the 5 gives him a better low than anyone with a set or a wrap could have. As it turns out, he also has jacks against Assani's pair of tens. Assani's all-in call with a bare pair of tens and a bare A2 with no protection is not a great situation. Sure, he might be ahead with TPTK on the flop, and he might be the only one with the A2 draw, but he's so vulnerable with both of those holdings.

I'd be interested in hearing more about this read, because I don't see it.

Basically I think hes practically never doing that with a true huge hand like set+A2 and I think he waits til the turn to push a set to avoid being an underdog against a huge combo draw. I haven't looked up the percentages of our hands against each other, but I'd assume I was a slight favorite(I'm busy multitabling now...anyone care to look it up?) or even if I'm an underdog then I'm getting the right price, and I thought that sort of hand was far and away most likely part of his range.I could go further into my history with him, but thats the quick answer.

 

[Assani Fisher]

I just got back, your best bets IMHO are:MGM 1-2: lot's of tourists, few locals from what I could tellWynn 1-3: allows $500 buy-in, really plays like 2-5, lots of donks playing way over their heads in this game, 15-20 PF raises were commonjust value bet, keep the bluffing to a minimum, don't chase draws, play position, TAG etc...

Imo the best place to play as far as having good dealers, good comps, good staff, etc. is Wynn with the Venetian as a close second(with no other casino really all that close). If you just want to play in the softest possible $1/2 games then MGM may be the best bet, although really its just going to be dumb luck of whether or not you happen to get a few total idiots at your table, and you can find idiots at $1/2 at every casino(as I said, its just a matter of getting lucky and running into them when you're playing).

Thanks for the responses guys, two more questions...1. The guys I'm going with subscribe to the "don't play before dinner on weekdays" theory.On our last trip, it seemed like they had something as the daytime crowd was pretty old and rocky.I sometimes use the "use the east coast jetlag to get up early and catch people at the end of all nighters" myself.Any thoughts or strategies on times to play or avoid at Wynn, Venetian, and MGM?

You are way way overthinking things. Any answers you get on this question are going to be based off playing maybe once or twice during the daytime and once or twice during the nighttime at a particular casino. Its just way too small of a sample size, and my guess is that your friends have made their evaluations based upon a very small sample size as well. You'd have to play at one particular casino at least 100 times before having a true idea of when the games are soft there.Imo just go play whenever you feel like it. I'd worry more about playing at a time of day when you know that you're on your game rather than trying to find when the game is the absolute softest.

 

[Assani Fisher]

I think the JJ push is ok....tough spot, but I don't hate it. I think some people are underestimating two things:

1. The blinds are really high and our stack can be gone quickly

2. In a satellite in which nobody is a big stack, it can oftentimes be easy for a shortstack to steal the blinds because nobody wants to be the one to risk their own chips and call his shove

I understand that you don't need to accumulate chips because 1st through 7th all pay the same, but we could often times find ourself as the shortstack if we just sit back and do nothing while the shorties push wildly.

I'm not saying its an auto-push, and I don't hate folding. But I wouldn't call pushing a horrible play either.

Imo the call with AQ by the BB is ridiculously bad.

 

[Assani Fisher]

where's assani fisher to end this debate.

Heh, I've been wrong plenty of times before. Your opinions are just as valid as mine.

 

[Assani Fisher]

btw the PLO hand has gotten a ton of responses on 2p2:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38/omaha...bb-deep-443337/

 

[Mike Shanahan Fan]

I think the JJ push is ok....tough spot, but I don't hate it. I think some people are underestimating two things:

1. The blinds are really high and our stack can be gone quickly

2. In a satellite in which nobody is a big stack, it can oftentimes be easy for a shortstack to steal the blinds because nobody wants to be the one to risk their own chips and call his shove

I understand that you don't need to accumulate chips because 1st through 7th all pay the same, but we could often times find ourself as the shortstack if we just sit back and do nothing while the shorties push wildly.

I'm not saying its an auto-push, and I don't hate folding. But I wouldn't call pushing a horrible play either.

Imo the call with AQ by the BB is ridiculously bad.

Which is exactly why I posted it, it's one that could go either way.100% right about the supposed chip advantage as well. Being in "5th" doesn't mean much when you have 11 BB, and there are two other players right behind you with 9-10BB.

 

[Assani Fisher]

With that said...as other said, if the rest of the table is full of morons then I may lean towards folding because:

1. You're more likely to get called by an idiot with AQ type hand like you did

2.Those same idiots aren't going to let the shortstacks liberally steal the blinds, so just sit back and wait for one of them to be eliminated

 

[eoMMan]

Assani or anyone, has anyone played the $12 180 person turbo NL MTT's on Stars? Any tips/strategies on these or links to tips/strategies?

Being a turbo tourney with only 180 people, it goes fast and seems like you'll run into at least one coinflip if you're going to make the final table.