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"Assassin" Jack Tatum Passes Away at age 61 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter kremenull
- Start date
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
As a bronco fan, hated him, as strictly a football fan, loved him. I think he definitely deserves to be in the Hall. RIP.
TommyGilmore
Footballguy
And of course the first thing that comes to mind is Darryl Stingley.
kremenull
Footballguy
That's not the first thing to me.....It's Sammie White of the Vikings going across the middle in the Super Bowl.......Whaaaaaack!ETA: Just found it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gARi1MIyPRc
With his signature trademark of standing over the demolished opponent.....Epic!
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
RIP big fella. One of my favorite Raiders growing up.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
A list of notable Raiders not in the HOF:1. Ray Guy, a mortal lock IMO, a travesty 2. Tim Brown3. Jim Plunkett, 2 time SB champ4. Lester Hayes, 5. Tom Flores6. Cliff Branch. my personal favorite and childhood hero7. Todd ChristensenThe NFL voting committee has a strong bias against voting deserving Raiders into the hall. Jack "the assassin" Tatum was also one of the greats, although I understand him not being a HOF. His spirit is reincarnated in young Raiders saftey Mike Mitchell. RIP Jack, loved the fear and intimidation you struck in the guys in the white unis as they looked up and trembled at the beasts across the field in Silver and Black. A special ode for Mr. Jack Tatum, all time Raider legend, narrated by the late great John Facenda:The Autumn Wind is a pirateBlustering in from seaWith a rollicking song he sweeps alongswaggering boisterouslyHis face is weather beatenHe wears a hooded sashWith his silver hat about his headAnd a bristly black moustacheHe growls as he storms the countryA villain big and boldAnd the trees all shake and quiver and quakeAs he robs them of their goldThe Autumn wind is a RaiderPillaging just for funHe'll knock you 'round and upside downAnd laugh when he's conquered and won.
pghrob
Footballguy
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
southeastjerome
Footballguy
I wonder if anyone danced around him when he died as he did when he paralyzed Stingley.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Any reason you left off Ken Stabler?
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I guess if you look at the stats, Snake just falls short of the requirements. He was famous and is a folk hero of sorts. I think the others have legitimate claims to HOF status based on statistics and accolades. I loved him as a boy watching him play in the Oakland Coliseum. It was tough to leave Snake off my short list as I am a huge Alabama fan. But I have heard from friends who knew and met him, and all I heard was he was a major ##### in real life. I guess that has something to do with it.I think that Tatum also should be HOF now that I think about it, when you think of hard hitting safeties, only his name and Ronnie Lott come to mind universally. No one dared go over the middle back then, and receivers all had "short arms" cuz they knew Tatum was going to meet them and they would crumple to the ground.A lot of critisism he had was unfair, as he just played the game as the rules were dictated at the time. He always felt bad about the Stingley hit. He never meant to paralyze him. At the time he hit him and celebrated, he didn't know the damage he caused. He carried the weight of that regret to his dying day.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Looks like Stabler has gotten plenty of HOF consideration. HOF balloting performance to date . . .Ray Guy - 7-time finalist, 5-time semi-finalistTim Brown - 1 time finalistJim Plunkett - 0 finals, 0 semi-finalsLester Hayes - 4-time finalist, 6-time semi-finalistTom Flores - 0 finals, 0 semi-finalsCliff Branch - 2-time semifinalistTodd Christensen - 0 finals, 0 semi-finalsKen Stabler - 3-time finalist, 6-time semi-finalist
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Incredibly inaccurate.
DropKick
Footballguy
Fixed.
Tatum played when football was a contact sport. QB's were faiir game and it was wonderful. My favorite memory is Lester Hayes, with gobs of stickum dripping from his hands, lined up outside. Great memories. Thank Jack for playing the game the way it was inteded.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Well said coachjim.Those were the days, weren't they? Now punks like Tom Brady have a skirt on them if they get pushed down and get a grass stain on their knee. Back then, we had the game played at a fierce level, when blood and spittle dripped from the facemask, and the weak watched "Heidi" on TV. That was a beautiful game. I truly beleive the rule changes made were in direct response to the Raiders intimidating style. Basically a lot of "haters" changed the rules because the rest of the teams were afraid and wanted to level the playing field. They couldn't ever be as badass as the Raiders.
CB31
Footballguy
I have a feeling this is going to turn into a "Back in my day, when men were men" vs. "New School" affair pretty soon.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
One more thought on why there are so many deserving Raiders not enshrined in the HOF. I believe that the NFL is waiting for Al Davis to pass on, so that he wont get the priviledge to announce the inducteess in canton. But Al will never die. He's got another 20 years in him. Only the good die young.
and another thing regarding Tatum. I love this interview of HOF great Willie Brown on Jack Tatum:
Willie Brown on Jack Tatum
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Tuesday, July 27th, 2010 at 4:59 pm in Oakland Raiders.
A transcription of Raiders’ Hall of Fame cornerback Willie Brown talking about the passing of former teammate and Pro Bowl safety Jack Tatum:
Q: Was Jack’s passing a surprise? Had some issues with diabetes, but had he been ill?
Brown: No, not to my knowledge. He was on a list for a kidney transplant for the last two or three months, I guess. I saw him at Fred Biletnikoff’s golf tournament. We hung out the night before, went to some places up there, had a good time together. But was surely a surprise to hear he had passed away this morning because, you know, a great guy, Jack, we played together when he first came to the Raiders. He was my roommate the first year, he hung out with me, I made him do all the dirty work, you know, that needed to be done. But he’s just a great guy, a truly, truly great Raider. You talk about all the guys who are Mr. Raider, and he fit in that same category, as one of the guys who would be Mr. Raider.
Q: Was there a better hitter in the NFL as a defensive back?
Brown: He and Ronnie Lott. You pick them. They are probably the two I ever played against or have seen play the game. None better. Jack took care of me in terms of knowing he’d be in the post position. I didn’t’ worry about guys running posts or slants. I could sit outside because if you go inside you’ll get your head taken off. I just kind of played that way. Jack was the type of guy who was very smart. He studied a lot. He knew things would happen before they would happen.
Q: Did most people realize after time that he was playing by the rules and Stingley was an unfortunate accident?
Brown: Well no, they really don’t. Talk to people in New England, they don’t realize. Talk to the fans here in Oakland and they understand football probably a little bit better than the folks back there because that’s part of the game. Now the impact, the hit, all those things, that could happen to anybody at any given time. Jack, he hit me and tore my biceps in my arm. ‘Don’t worry about me, just take care of whatever you have to take care of.’ He was just that type of player. He wasn’t the type of person who was really out trying to maim anybody or hurt anybody. He was just doing his job. That’s the way he played the game.
Q: Did that hit hurt him in later years?
Brown: I’m sure when you play against a former player or whoever. You want to do your job No. 1. You want to hurt him but you want to hurt him to get him out of the game but hope he’d be back next week. You don’t want to end his career, Jack was that type of guy. You’re not trying to end somebody’s career. He was just doing his job. Unfortunate things happen in football. You see it all the time. You see guys having heat stroke on the football field. That’s just part of life.
Q: What was he like off field?
Brown: Very mild, very quiet. Very, very quiet. Jack didn’t say much so you didn’t bother him. He didn’t say much so you didn’t ask him a whole bunch of questions. You just leave him alone. Very good in the community, not only in the state of California. He did a lot of things back in Ohio and in his hometown Passaic. He did some things in the south. Jack was all over, doing things in the community.
Q: A coach once said guys today don’t know the old-timers but they all knew Jack Tatum?
Brown: No question about it. Because of his reputation in the league over the years. You can’t help but to know him when you talk about good hitters, great hitters, great safeties. Jack Tatum is ranked right up there as the No. 1 guy.
Q: Do you have a favorite hit?
Brown: The one that is favorite to me is in the Super Bowl when we played the Minnesota Vikings. But he hit a former Grambling-ite, Sammy White. I told Sammy, ‘Don’t go inside Sammy.’ That’s probably one of the greatest hits I’ve ever seen.
Q: How intimidated were opponents of him?
Brown: Not only against him but most teams were intimidated when they see the Silver and Black come on the field. That’s how we wanted them to feel. We wanted them to feel like ‘hey, we’re going to kick your ### today.’ The way we walked, the way we talked and the leadership. When you see Al Davis walk along the sideline, that’s kind of intimidating to guys to see him walking up and down the sideline before we started the game. Teams they did, they knew the type of reputation we had back there. Not only with the defensive backs but the linebackers and the defensive line.
Q: In NBA they changed rules because of Wilt, was that case with Jack?
Brown: I can give you 25 changes in the league caused by the Raiders. I can. All the teams could not handle the things that we were doing. We were so far ahead, Al Davis was so far ahead of other teams, other owners, other coaches. He had us way beyond what you can imagine. They saw that it looked like the Raiders had an advantage of the game situation and then they wanted to change because we had so many great players on the team. They said well it was unfair. Other teams started to complaining it was unfair to have a corner like Willie Brown beating the hell out of somebody and then you have a Jack Tatum, a George Atkinson, Skip Thomas and those kind of guys. They just feel they had a disadvantage going against us so that’s why they changed some of the rules.
Q: Did his hitting overshadow his other skills?
Brown: Yeah. Surely Jack should be in the Hall of Fame. There’s no question, no doubt about it. It’s unfortunate it looks like that he will probably get in now after his death which I hate to see. He should have got in a long time ago. There is so many things that he has done that overshadowed some of the things that people see. When you’re playing back in the middle you have one job to do, that’s stop the long pass right down the middle. He did that better than anybody that I could think of.
and another thing regarding Tatum. I love this interview of HOF great Willie Brown on Jack Tatum:
Willie Brown on Jack Tatum
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Tuesday, July 27th, 2010 at 4:59 pm in Oakland Raiders.
A transcription of Raiders’ Hall of Fame cornerback Willie Brown talking about the passing of former teammate and Pro Bowl safety Jack Tatum:
Q: Was Jack’s passing a surprise? Had some issues with diabetes, but had he been ill?
Brown: No, not to my knowledge. He was on a list for a kidney transplant for the last two or three months, I guess. I saw him at Fred Biletnikoff’s golf tournament. We hung out the night before, went to some places up there, had a good time together. But was surely a surprise to hear he had passed away this morning because, you know, a great guy, Jack, we played together when he first came to the Raiders. He was my roommate the first year, he hung out with me, I made him do all the dirty work, you know, that needed to be done. But he’s just a great guy, a truly, truly great Raider. You talk about all the guys who are Mr. Raider, and he fit in that same category, as one of the guys who would be Mr. Raider.
Q: Was there a better hitter in the NFL as a defensive back?
Brown: He and Ronnie Lott. You pick them. They are probably the two I ever played against or have seen play the game. None better. Jack took care of me in terms of knowing he’d be in the post position. I didn’t’ worry about guys running posts or slants. I could sit outside because if you go inside you’ll get your head taken off. I just kind of played that way. Jack was the type of guy who was very smart. He studied a lot. He knew things would happen before they would happen.
Q: Did most people realize after time that he was playing by the rules and Stingley was an unfortunate accident?
Brown: Well no, they really don’t. Talk to people in New England, they don’t realize. Talk to the fans here in Oakland and they understand football probably a little bit better than the folks back there because that’s part of the game. Now the impact, the hit, all those things, that could happen to anybody at any given time. Jack, he hit me and tore my biceps in my arm. ‘Don’t worry about me, just take care of whatever you have to take care of.’ He was just that type of player. He wasn’t the type of person who was really out trying to maim anybody or hurt anybody. He was just doing his job. That’s the way he played the game.
Q: Did that hit hurt him in later years?
Brown: I’m sure when you play against a former player or whoever. You want to do your job No. 1. You want to hurt him but you want to hurt him to get him out of the game but hope he’d be back next week. You don’t want to end his career, Jack was that type of guy. You’re not trying to end somebody’s career. He was just doing his job. Unfortunate things happen in football. You see it all the time. You see guys having heat stroke on the football field. That’s just part of life.
Q: What was he like off field?
Brown: Very mild, very quiet. Very, very quiet. Jack didn’t say much so you didn’t bother him. He didn’t say much so you didn’t ask him a whole bunch of questions. You just leave him alone. Very good in the community, not only in the state of California. He did a lot of things back in Ohio and in his hometown Passaic. He did some things in the south. Jack was all over, doing things in the community.
Q: A coach once said guys today don’t know the old-timers but they all knew Jack Tatum?
Brown: No question about it. Because of his reputation in the league over the years. You can’t help but to know him when you talk about good hitters, great hitters, great safeties. Jack Tatum is ranked right up there as the No. 1 guy.
Q: Do you have a favorite hit?
Brown: The one that is favorite to me is in the Super Bowl when we played the Minnesota Vikings. But he hit a former Grambling-ite, Sammy White. I told Sammy, ‘Don’t go inside Sammy.’ That’s probably one of the greatest hits I’ve ever seen.
Q: How intimidated were opponents of him?
Brown: Not only against him but most teams were intimidated when they see the Silver and Black come on the field. That’s how we wanted them to feel. We wanted them to feel like ‘hey, we’re going to kick your ### today.’ The way we walked, the way we talked and the leadership. When you see Al Davis walk along the sideline, that’s kind of intimidating to guys to see him walking up and down the sideline before we started the game. Teams they did, they knew the type of reputation we had back there. Not only with the defensive backs but the linebackers and the defensive line.
Q: In NBA they changed rules because of Wilt, was that case with Jack?
Brown: I can give you 25 changes in the league caused by the Raiders. I can. All the teams could not handle the things that we were doing. We were so far ahead, Al Davis was so far ahead of other teams, other owners, other coaches. He had us way beyond what you can imagine. They saw that it looked like the Raiders had an advantage of the game situation and then they wanted to change because we had so many great players on the team. They said well it was unfair. Other teams started to complaining it was unfair to have a corner like Willie Brown beating the hell out of somebody and then you have a Jack Tatum, a George Atkinson, Skip Thomas and those kind of guys. They just feel they had a disadvantage going against us so that’s why they changed some of the rules.
Q: Did his hitting overshadow his other skills?
Brown: Yeah. Surely Jack should be in the Hall of Fame. There’s no question, no doubt about it. It’s unfortunate it looks like that he will probably get in now after his death which I hate to see. He should have got in a long time ago. There is so many things that he has done that overshadowed some of the things that people see. When you’re playing back in the middle you have one job to do, that’s stop the long pass right down the middle. He did that better than anybody that I could think of.
CB31
Footballguy
Well you didn't expect Brown to say anything bad about him on the day of his passing, did you? Not saying he lied about everything (obviously some of it is true), but if you're trying to prove how great of a guy Assassin was, a sugarcoated interview with a friend on the day of his passing probably isn't the most objective piece out there.
Andy Herron
Footballguy
Let's not forget that previous to his NFL career Tatum was one of the greatest Buckeyes ever as well.
Woody Hayes initially recruited Tatum as a running back, but then assistant coach Lou Holtz convinced Woody to move him to safety. By his senior year Tatum had actually received votes for the Heisman.
Woody Hayes initially recruited Tatum as a running back, but then assistant coach Lou Holtz convinced Woody to move him to safety. By his senior year Tatum had actually received votes for the Heisman.
Nigel
Footballguy
you're right, not strong enough a word - awful guy
identikit
Footballguy
Weiner Dog
Footballguy
I have two boys. If one of them paralyzed another person...whether in football, baseball or baking cupcakes...and did not apologize and/or (worst yet) show no remorse, I would be a very disappointed father.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
A lot of ignorance in this thread. Tatum tried to reach out to Stingley several times - presumably to apologize - but Stingley's family never permitted Tatum to contact him.Not sure what's more appalling... people spitting on this man's grave, or clueless people spitting on this man's grave.I have two boys. If one of them paralyzed another person...whether in football, baseball or baking cupcakes...and did not apologize and/or (worst yet) show no remorse, I would be a very disappointed father.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Tatum began a charitable group to help kids with diabetes and raised more than $1.4 million to fight the disease in the Columbus area. This was a person who had very little money of his own at the end of his life.AWFUL GUY....
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
People just don't know. They just hate.A lot of ignorance in this thread. Tatum tried to reach out to Stingley several times - presumably to apologize - but Stingley's family never permitted Tatum to contact him.Not sure what's more appalling... people spitting on this man's grave, or clueless people spitting on this man's grave.
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Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
You know, maybe times have passed me by. But I don't remember when it was ok in today's society to talk bad about someone at the time of their death. If you can't say something kind about the deceased, hold your silence in respect. (at the very very least). The rest of us will understand your silence.
Do you remember the game Howie Long played with a BROKEN LEG. Those were indeed the days. Jack Lambert slobbering with his teeth out looking over the middle trying to figure a way to put the QB on a stretcher.
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CB31
Footballguy
Having a charity doesn't mean you're a good guy. Michael Vick has a charity golf tournament, along with being the principal of the Michael Vick Foundation and the Vick Foundation. Not saying that Tatum wasn't a good guy or didn't try to apologize (I can't read his soul or know his intentions), but just saying that he had a charity doesn't mean he wasn't a bad guy.
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Last time I checked being a nice guy was not a prerequisite to play in the NFL. Conrad Dobler was perhaps the dirtiest player ever. Was he a nice guy? Probably not but who cares. Football is a contact sport. It is a tough game for tough kids.
CB31
Footballguy
I don't disagree with that at all. In fact, it probably lends itself to those that say that Tatum wasn't a good guy. I was just saying that having a charity doesn't mean you're a saint, as the one guy implied. I don't think what I said disagreed with anything that you're saying.
I totally agree with you. Having a charity just means you have a smart CPA to keep you from paying tax dollars the the IRS.
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Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Nobody implied he was a saint. But he was misunderstood. He played in a different era under different rules. Those too young to have seen him play should refrain from commenting. He suffered through ailments his later years (lost five toes on both feet and eventually a leg was amputated) At the very least he deserves some dignity. I hope that when you die, someone doesn't bring up that you weren't a saint. Who the heck is one? Pope John Paul II?, Mother Teresa? You are no one to judge.
Weiner Dog
Footballguy
A lot of ignorance in this thread. Tatum tried to reach out to Stingley several times - presumably to apologize - but Stingley's family never permitted Tatum to contact him.Not sure what's more appalling... people spitting on this man's grave, or clueless people spitting on this man's grave.I have two boys. If one of them paralyzed another person...whether in football, baseball or baking cupcakes...and did not apologize and/or (worst yet) show no remorse, I would be a very disappointed father.
Stingley was paralyzed in the late-70's. There was no effort to meet until nearly 20 years later...when Tatum was pushing his book agenda. Coincidence? Don't get me wrong...Tatum did nothing wrong with the hit that paralyzed Stingley. It was his actions (or lack thereof) after the hit that I question.
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Serenity Now
Footballguy
Some people don't deserve the respect.Feel free not to paint all New England fans as those who don't understand that the hit was legal but unfortunate. Tatum is hated by New England fans for his classless behavior after the incident and for years beyond it. I don't know what your source is on him trying to see Stingley, but there are plenty of others that say he didn't. Except for that time when he needed material for his book, of course. Then Stingley refused to see him.
CB31
Footballguy
You obviously missed where I specifically pointed out that I couldn't judge his soul or read his mind. And yeah, "saint" was too strong an adjective. But I never said he was a bad guy anywhere; just that what you pointed to as proof that he was a good guy (the charities and the interview) aren't the strongest points of evidence that he was a good guy. I'll say it again...I CAN'T SEE WHAT HE WAS THINKING OR WHAT HE WANTED TO DO. But just because he had a charity and a friend gave a glowing interview does not mean he was a nice guy. He may have been understood, I dunno; he may not have been. We just don't have the ability to know for sure.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Tatum was a scumbag and lowlife. If most of you were just saying RIP or sad to see him go I wouldnt even bother posting. But if you are going to post about what a great guy he is then I am going to disagree with you vehemently and not let it pass.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Here, have a cookie.
CalBear
Footballguy
Hard to reconcile this attitude with the idea that you think that it's a travesty that a punter isn't in the Hall Of Fame.
Insomniac
Footballguy
The gripe I have with Tatum is that he wrote 3 books to profit off the notoriety he gained from crippling Stingley.
The play itself was pretty common at the time. If Stingley had just got a bad concussion nobody would remember it at all. It was an unlucky play.
As for the conflicting stories about Tatum trying to visit Stingley at the time it doesn't matter to me. Members of Stingely's family denied they prevented Tatum from seeing him. There's no reason to blindly trust either side.
.
It's definitely true that when Tatum last tried to set up a meeting - in front of cameras - that he "forgot" to tell Stingley that his 3rd book would be coming out right after the meeting. Will McDonough found out about it and told Stingley and that was it for any potential meeting.
The play itself was pretty common at the time. If Stingley had just got a bad concussion nobody would remember it at all. It was an unlucky play.
As for the conflicting stories about Tatum trying to visit Stingley at the time it doesn't matter to me. Members of Stingely's family denied they prevented Tatum from seeing him. There's no reason to blindly trust either side.
.
It's definitely true that when Tatum last tried to set up a meeting - in front of cameras - that he "forgot" to tell Stingley that his 3rd book would be coming out right after the meeting. Will McDonough found out about it and told Stingley and that was it for any potential meeting.
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Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
It may be before your time, but for you to assume that because Guy was a punter and that modern day punters are #####s is to make a really misinformed observation. Ray Guy would cold #### a returner, and it made it even more impressive to see him get in the scrum with his lone bar facemask. Definitely a tough guy. He was the person that was responsible for the term "coffin corner". On field position alone, he was responsible for and extra 1-2 games won per year. Why not have a punter in the hall?CalBear said:
CalBear
Footballguy
None of the actual stats support your assertions. He didn't even have the best net average of punters of his era. And seriously, how often would he get into a scrum? Once or twice a season? He's a freakin' punter.
Gary Davenport
Footballguy
So rather than just disagree with the folks lauding him, you think the proper course is to label him a "scumbag" and "lowlife", presumably over one split-second that happened over thirty years ago.That says a helluva lot more about you than it does about Tatum.Stay Classy.Pat Patriot said:
