"Assassin" Jack Tatum Passes Away at age 61 (1 Viewer)

[Raiderfan32904]

Back then, we had the game played at a fierce level, when blood and spittle dripped from the facemask, and the weak watched "Heidi" on TV. That was a beautiful game.

Hard to reconcile this attitude with the idea that you think that it's a travesty that a punter isn't in the Hall Of Fame.

It may be before your time, but for you to assume that because Guy was a punter and that modern day punters are #####s is to make a really misinformed observation. Ray Guy would cold #### a returner, and it made it even more impressive to see him get in the scrum with his lone bar facemask. Definitely a tough guy. He was the person that was responsible for the term "coffin corner". On field position alone, he was responsible for and extra 1-2 games won per year. Why not have a punter in the hall?

None of the actual stats support your assertions. He didn't even have the best net average of punters of his era. And seriously, how often would he get into a scrum? Once or twice a season? He's a freakin' punter.

Really you think that avg net matters? You must think a guy like Reggie Roby needs to be in the hall over Ray Guy. What makes more impact? A guy that booms all his kicks into the end zone and gets the net up, or the guy that can kick from the opponents 40, and pin them down inside thier own 5, for a net of 35? I think that you ask anyone with knowledge of football and they will take the field position over the average net seven days a week and twice on Sunday. And his being a tough guy. You seemed to allude to the idea that Ray Guy wasn't part of the tough guy image of the Raiders and that era. But he was one badass SOB, just like the rest of 'em. John Madden suffered no fools and no wussies. It was a different era, and stats could never tell the story about the character of Ray Guy or the pre-LA, Oakland Raiders.

 

[CalBear]

Really you think that avg net matters? You must think a guy like Reggie Roby needs to be in the hall over Ray Guy. What makes more impact? A guy that booms all his kicks into the end zone and gets the net up, or the guy that can kick from the opponents 40, and pin them down inside thier own 5, for a net of 35? I think that you ask anyone with knowledge of football and they will take the field position over the average net seven days a week and twice on Sunday.

Uh, that's exactly what I'm saying. If you boom the kick into the end zone from the opponent's 40, you get a net of 20. Pinning them at the 5 gives you a net of 35. If Guy actually was much better at pinning teams at the 5, he would have a much better net average. But he doesn't.And no, I don't think Reggie Roby belongs in the Hall, either, but he was definitely a better punter than Ray Guy. (Guy: 42.4 average, 33.8 net; Roby: 43.3 average, 34.0 net).

And his being a tough guy. You seemed to allude to the idea that Ray Guy wasn't part of the tough guy image of the Raiders and that era. But he was one badass SOB, just like the rest of 'em. John Madden suffered no fools and no wussies. It was a different era, and stats could never tell the story about the character of Ray Guy or the pre-LA, Oakland Raiders.

RAYDUUUUUHS, yes, I get it. Guy clearly belongs in the Oakland Raiders hall of fame. Just not the Hall for football players.

 

[Pisgah Flying Pigmen]

Really you think that avg net matters? You must think a guy like Reggie Roby needs to be in the hall over Ray Guy. What makes more impact? A guy that booms all his kicks into the end zone and gets the net up, or the guy that can kick from the opponents 40, and pin them down inside thier own 5, for a net of 35? I think that you ask anyone with knowledge of football and they will take the field position over the average net seven days a week and twice on Sunday.

Uh, that's exactly what I'm saying. If you boom the kick into the end zone from the opponent's 40, you get a net of 20. Pinning them at the 5 gives you a net of 35. If Guy actually was much better at pinning teams at the 5, he would have a much better net average. But he doesn't.And no, I don't think Reggie Roby belongs in the Hall, either, but he was definitely a better punter than Ray Guy. (Guy: 42.4 average, 33.8 net; Roby: 43.3 average, 34.0 net).

And his being a tough guy. You seemed to allude to the idea that Ray Guy wasn't part of the tough guy image of the Raiders and that era. But he was one badass SOB, just like the rest of 'em. John Madden suffered no fools and no wussies. It was a different era, and stats could never tell the story about the character of Ray Guy or the pre-LA, Oakland Raiders.

RAYDUUUUUHS, yes, I get it. Guy clearly belongs in the Oakland Raiders hall of fame. Just not the Hall for football players.

Were you around when Guy played? Roby was a great punter, but most everyone acknowledges Guy was the best of modern era. As to the stats, perhaps Guy's net is lower than perceived because he frequently was going for the corner instead of being able to air it out from his own end. Roby = 3-time pro-bowl, 2-time 1st team all-pro

Guy = 7-time pro-bowl, 3-time 1st team all-pro

Oh, and Guy is 7-time HOF finalist, Roby ???

 

[CalBear]

Were you around when Guy played? Roby was a great punter, but most everyone acknowledges Guy was the best of modern era. As to the stats, perhaps Guy's net is lower than perceived because he frequently was going for the corner instead of being able to air it out from his own end. Roby = 3-time pro-bowl, 2-time 1st team all-proGuy = 7-time pro-bowl, 3-time 1st team all-proOh, and Guy is 7-time HOF finalist, Roby ???

Yes, I was around when Guy played. He was a punter. He was pretty good. He wasn't significantly better than other good punters of his time, and he's certainly not nearly as good as today's punters. (If you want to go all RAYDUHS on me, Shane Lechler averages 6 yards per punt more than Guy, with a 5 yard per punt higher net).

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Were you around when Guy played? Roby was a great punter, but most everyone acknowledges Guy was the best of modern era. As to the stats, perhaps Guy's net is lower than perceived because he frequently was going for the corner instead of being able to air it out from his own end. Roby = 3-time pro-bowl, 2-time 1st team all-proGuy = 7-time pro-bowl, 3-time 1st team all-proOh, and Guy is 7-time HOF finalist, Roby ???

Yes, I was around when Guy played. He was a punter. He was pretty good. He wasn't significantly better than other good punters of his time, and he's certainly not nearly as good as today's punters. (If you want to go all RAYDUHS on me, Shane Lechler averages 6 yards per punt more than Guy, with a 5 yard per punt higher net).

Roby and even my boy Lechler have incredible averges because they played for teams that sucked. It's easy to get the average up there when you are punting on your half of the field. Ray Guy played on a juggernaut team that constantly attacked downfield and many drives ended up stalling around the 40. Don't try to count the lack of opportunities to boom kicks from his own endzone against him. That's not fair. What Ray Guy was...he was like an offensive weapon. He would be called into punt in a situation where a lot of teams would attempt a long field goal. Tom Flores and John Madden played the field position game. They knew that Ray Guy was money when it came to pinpointing the kicks in the corner. He'd kick a beautiful spriral that bounced out of bounds and you'd see the ref slowly pace down the sideline to a spot around the 3 yard line and mark the ball for change of possession. You could visibly see the guys in the other uniforms sulk as they buckled the chinstraps. This was a Raider team that went for the jugular, and the defense smelled blood down there. 3 point field goals are nice, but goalline stands in the opponents endzone were part of the Raiders intimidating style. It was like a pyschological warfare weapon having a Ray Guy punt for you. No other punter in NFL history can compare as a force/weapon.Bottom line, stat's don't tell the story of just how great Ray Guy was and I truly believe that until he gets in the hall, no other punter will get in.

 

[CalBear]

Were you around when Guy played? Roby was a great punter, but most everyone acknowledges Guy was the best of modern era. As to the stats, perhaps Guy's net is lower than perceived because he frequently was going for the corner instead of being able to air it out from his own end. Roby = 3-time pro-bowl, 2-time 1st team all-proGuy = 7-time pro-bowl, 3-time 1st team all-proOh, and Guy is 7-time HOF finalist, Roby ???

Yes, I was around when Guy played. He was a punter. He was pretty good. He wasn't significantly better than other good punters of his time, and he's certainly not nearly as good as today's punters. (If you want to go all RAYDUHS on me, Shane Lechler averages 6 yards per punt more than Guy, with a 5 yard per punt higher net).

Roby and even my boy Lechler have incredible averges because they played for teams that sucked. It's easy to get the average up there when you are punting on your half of the field. Ray Guy played on a juggernaut team that constantly attacked downfield and many drives ended up stalling around the 40. Don't try to count the lack of opportunities to boom kicks from his own endzone against him. That's not fair.

Ray Guy's 42.4 yards per punt would have slotted him in as the #24 punter this year. His 33.8 net would have been worst in the league. He would have a hard time making an NFL roster.To take a punter on a great offense, Pat McAfee on IND had a 44.3 average and 37.4 net.

What Ray Guy was...he was like an offensive weapon. He would be called into punt in a situation where a lot of teams would attempt a long field goal. Tom Flores and John Madden played the field position game. They knew that Ray Guy was money when it came to pinpointing the kicks in the corner. He'd kick a beautiful spriral that bounced out of bounds and you'd see the ref slowly pace down the sideline to a spot around the 3 yard line and mark the ball for change of possession. You could visibly see the guys in the other uniforms sulk as they buckled the chinstraps. This was a Raider team that went for the jugular, and the defense smelled blood down there. 3 point field goals are nice, but goalline stands in the opponents endzone were part of the Raiders intimidating style. It was like a pyschological warfare weapon having a Ray Guy punt for you. No other punter in NFL history can compare as a force/weapon.Bottom line, stat's don't tell the story of just how great Ray Guy was and I truly believe that until he gets in the hall, no other punter will get in.

Essentially the only thing supporting Guy as a HOF candidate is myth. You're saying he was a mythical figure, I get that. But you need more than myth to earn a spot in the Hall. Guy had 210 punts inside the 20 (not counting his first three years in the league, when the stat wasn't tracked) with 838 attempts in those years. So, one out of four of his punts landed inside the 20. Again, by today's standards that's not impressive at all; 2009's leader, Ben Graham, had 42 punts inside the 20 out of 86 attempts, and there are 25 punters who had better inside-20 ratios than 4:1.