At what point is it sexual harassment? (as a guy) (1 Viewer)

[TLEF316]

So a company we work with hosted an event yesterday that I decided to attend. In addition to the people from my office, there were a bunch of attendees from another branch office close by. One of them was that branch's equivalent of my boss' boss. He is an openly gay man in his 50's. I would describe him as pretty flamboyant, but not comically so.We're not talking about Nathan Lane from The Bird Cage, but you can tell that he's gay within 10 seconds of meeting him. NTTAWWT.

So everyone is hanging at the bar having a good time. Drinks were flowing for about 4 hours and everyone is obviously pretty loose at this point. The gentleman we're talking about starts getting a little bit handsy (hugging women, grabbing people's arms and shoulders, etc). He also made some comments about some of the women (or other women that weren't there) that an overly sensitive person MIGHT consider inappropriate. If he was a straight guy saying the same things, he'd probably be catching some #### for it.

I personally didn't consider anything he did/said to be bad at all. But it did get me thinking. At what point does it start to become a problem? Are there different standards for a gay man in this situation? If you were the target of any possible "harassment", at what point do you make an issue of it?

edit: Please see post # 5. Answer the poll under the assumption that YOU (presumably a guy) are the target of the potentially inappropriate behavior

 

[McGarnicle]

It's harassment if a woman says it is. Therefore it's advisable not to look at or speak to any woman in a workplace environment, ever.

 

[randall146]

I think the line between fun playfulness and sexual harassment depends both on the intent of the actor and the perception of the receiver. So there's automatically some difference between an "out" straight guy vs. an "out" gay guy. The gay guy is more likely to be saying the sexual stuff in jest and the woman is far more likely to perceive it that way

 

[dgreen]

Two criteria for sexual harassment:

1) Sexual in nature

2) Unwanted

In situations with an increasing number of people, the chances rapidly rise that someone will find the actions unwanted.

 

[TLEF316]

Just to be clear, the intent of the poll was to discuss how we (mostly guys) would react to the hypothetical situation of an openly gay man doing things to you that some might consider harassment.

I won't even pretend to try and understand how women would react to this.

 

[Clifford]

This is SOP where I work. People get drunk together and sexually inappropriate things are said all the time, always in fun, and no one ever really gives a crap.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

I would never report someone

 

[jon_mx]

If he was an old ugly guy, any suggestive comment is sexual harassment. If he is a hot hunk, it is never sexual harassment. The rest of us fall somewhere in between directly proportional to our respective hotness. Gay guys get a complete pass when it comes to women.

 

[Abraham]

Meh.

 

[McGarnicle]

Just to be clear, the intent of the poll was to discuss how we (mostly guys) would react to the hypothetical situation of an openly gay man doing things to you that some might consider harassment.

I won't even pretend to try and understand how women would react to this.

I would elbow the guy hard enough for him to know he'd better not do it again, probably have some choice words too depending on how much I'd had to drink.

 

[jon_mx]

Just to be clear, the intent of the poll was to discuss how we (mostly guys) would react to the hypothetical situation of an openly gay man doing things to you that some might consider harassment.

I won't even pretend to try and understand how women would react to this.

I would elbow the guy hard enough for him to know he'd better not do it again, probably have some choice words too depending on how much I'd had to drink.

And by choice words you mean like 'your place or mine'?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

"### grab" strikes me as being the first item that's clearly over the line. Even a touch-y person (the kind who gives hugs) should know better than to take it that far.

To put it a little differently, if I gave a female coworker a hug, that would be weird IMO (I'm not that sort of person), but it wouldn't be harassment. If I touched a female co-worker's leg (like she's sitting in a chair opposite me and I put my hand on her leg to get her attention or to emphasize a particular point), that would be weird too, but I could see somebody doing it innocently. I can't even conceive of a situation in which it would be remotely appropriate or explicable for me to grab somebody's ###. Keep doing that and it's a matter of when not if you get fired.

 

[17seconds]

Two criteria for sexual harassment:

1) Sexual in nature

2) Unwanted

In situations with an increasing number of people, the chances rapidly rise that someone will find the actions unwanted.

FYP

Seriously

The victim can pretty much define it however they want, at least in CA

 

[McGarnicle]

I consider it harassment if any woman makes any comment that is sexual in nature, even if it's really mild, but then refuses intercourse.

 

[glumpy]

"### grab" strikes me as being the first item that's clearly over the line. Even a touch-y person (the kind who gives hugs) should know better than to take it that far.

To put it a little differently, if I gave a female coworker a hug, that would be weird IMO (I'm not that sort of person), but it wouldn't be harassment. If I touched a female co-worker's leg (like she's sitting in a chair opposite me and I put my hand on her leg to get her attention or to emphasize a particular point), that would be weird too, but I could see somebody doing it innocently. I can't even conceive of a situation in which it would be remotely appropriate or explicable for me to grab somebody's ###. Keep doing that and it's a matter of when not if you get fired.

Agree entirely here. Historically I've always been a person who people tend to confide in, and maybe bacause of that there's always developed some levels of intimacy that could be deemed inappropriate--but there always has to be some restraint so that it doesn't become an issue. I am one who people seem to come to for an occasional hug.

 

[Jaysus]

The more people that grab my ### the better

 

[Bucks]

It's sexual harassment the first such event after I indicate it's unwanted then it's hostile work environment. Prior to that it's socializing and/or courtship.

 

[McGarnicle]

I had a female boss about 10 years ago, early 30's and really smoking hot. Former college cheerleader, blonde, petite, dressed upscale but just sexy enough to get away with. She was very smart and professional, but at the same time, she was well aware of the effect her looks had on men and she often played that up. Not in any kind of underhanded way, in fact she was one of the sweetest women I've ever worked with. She just had fun with it and I think it was an ego thing. Anyway, one day I was in her office going over a report, and at one point as I was explaining something she looked intently into my eyes, leaned back in her chair and put the tip of her pen in her mouth. She saw me take a hard swallow as she did this, and proceeded to lick the tip of the pen. Immediately, really without thinking, I took out my penis which was already about 80% erect.

So really, you have to take the full context of the situation into account.

 

[Black Box]

Just to be clear, the intent of the poll was to discuss how we (mostly guys) would react to the hypothetical situation of an openly gay man doing things to you that some might consider harassment.

I won't even pretend to try and understand how women would react to this.

Normally men would just deal with it on their own.

But if a man wanted to make a point that sexual harassment rules are largely arbitrary in nature, it might be worth making a big stink with HR.

 

[Sinn Fein]

When his #### hits your ###, thats amore

 

[mquinnjr]

I had a female boss about 10 years ago, early 30's and really smoking hot. Former college cheerleader, blonde, petite, dressed upscale but just sexy enough to get away with. She was very smart and professional, but at the same time, she was well aware of the effect her looks had on men and she often played that up. Not in any kind of underhanded way, in fact she was one of the sweetest women I've ever worked with. She just had fun with it and I think it was an ego thing. Anyway, one day I was in her office going over a report, and at one point as I was explaining something she looked intently into my eyes, leaned back in her chair and put the tip of her pen in her mouth. She saw me take a hard swallow as she did this, and proceeded to lick the tip of the pen. Immediately, really without thinking, I took out my penis which was already about 80% erect.

So really, you have to take the full context of the situation into account.

...continue....

 

[Keerock]

I had a female boss about 10 years ago, early 30's and really smoking hot. Former college cheerleader, blonde, petite, dressed upscale but just sexy enough to get away with. She was very smart and professional, but at the same time, she was well aware of the effect her looks had on men and she often played that up. Not in any kind of underhanded way, in fact she was one of the sweetest women I've ever worked with. She just had fun with it and I think it was an ego thing. Anyway, one day I was in her office going over a report, and at one point as I was explaining something she looked intently into my eyes, leaned back in her chair and put the tip of her pen in her mouth. She saw me take a hard swallow as she did this, and proceeded to lick the tip of the pen. Immediately, really without thinking, I took out my penis which was already about 80% erect.

So really, you have to take the full context of the situation into account.

 

[Cjw_55106]

I think the gay man and I are fine so long as he doesn't have both hands on my shoulders.

If it ever got to the point where I considered it harassment, I'd simply walk away.

 

[McGarnicle]

I had a female boss about 10 years ago, early 30's and really smoking hot. Former college cheerleader, blonde, petite, dressed upscale but just sexy enough to get away with. She was very smart and professional, but at the same time, she was well aware of the effect her looks had on men and she often played that up. Not in any kind of underhanded way, in fact she was one of the sweetest women I've ever worked with. She just had fun with it and I think it was an ego thing. Anyway, one day I was in her office going over a report, and at one point as I was explaining something she looked intently into my eyes, leaned back in her chair and put the tip of her pen in her mouth. She saw me take a hard swallow as she did this, and proceeded to lick the tip of the pen. Immediately, really without thinking, I took out my penis which was already about 80% erect.

So really, you have to take the full context of the situation into account.

...continue....

Damn conference calls rest of today...I'll try to find time this weekend.

 

[Foosball God]

I had a female boss about 10 years ago, early 30's and really smoking hot. Former college cheerleader, blonde, petite, dressed upscale but just sexy enough to get away with. She was very smart and professional, but at the same time, she was well aware of the effect her looks had on men and she often played that up. Not in any kind of underhanded way, in fact she was one of the sweetest women I've ever worked with. She just had fun with it and I think it was an ego thing. Anyway, one day I was in her office going over a report, and at one point as I was explaining something she looked intently into my eyes, leaned back in her chair and put the tip of her pen in her mouth. She saw me take a hard swallow as she did this, and proceeded to lick the tip of the pen. Immediately, really without thinking, I took out my penis which was already about 80% erect.

So really, you have to take the full context of the situation into account.

...continue....

Damn conference calls rest of today...I'll try to find time this weekend.

How the hell am I supposed to fap to this?

 

[DiStefano]

Just to be clear, the intent of the poll was to discuss how we (mostly guys) would react to the hypothetical situation of an openly gay man doing things to you that some might consider harassment.

I won't even pretend to try and understand how women would react to this.

At the point where I deck him, I think you could consider it harassment.

 

[Sarnoff]

He told me it would be just the tip

 

[CBusAlex]

To put it a little differently, if I gave a female coworker a hug, that would be weird IMO (I'm not that sort of person), but it wouldn't be harassment. If I touched a female co-worker's leg (like she's sitting in a chair opposite me and I put my hand on her leg to get her attention or to emphasize a particular point), that would be weird too, but I could see somebody doing it innocently. I can't even conceive of a situation in which it would be remotely appropriate or explicable for me to grab somebody's ###.

"Sorry, I dropped my pen down there."

 

[Juxtatarot]

Unless you're held down and raped, it's hard to complain about anything that happens after four hours in a bar.

 

[Quint]

Voted Suggestive Comment.

A couple of years ago I was pouring wine at a gay-centric event in Sonoma. There were about 30 men in the room and one in particular was 2.5 sheets to the wind. As I walked past his table to pour the next wine, he says to me, "I want to take you in the bathroom and S your D."

I said "no thanks" and continued to pour through the end of the dinner. On my way home I started thinking about how wildly inappropriate that comment had been, and I got a little offended. Sure, dude was drunk and may not have said that without the aid of alcohol, but it was still way out of bounds.

 

[jhib]

I had a female boss about 10 years ago, early 30's and really smoking hot. Former college cheerleader, blonde, petite, dressed upscale but just sexy enough to get away with. She was very smart and professional, but at the same time, she was well aware of the effect her looks had on men and she often played that up. Not in any kind of underhanded way, in fact she was one of the sweetest women I've ever worked with. She just had fun with it and I think it was an ego thing. Anyway, one day I was in her office going over a report, and at one point as I was explaining something she looked intently into my eyes, leaned back in her chair and put the tip of her pen in her mouth. She saw me take a hard swallow as she did this, and proceeded to lick the tip of the pen. Immediately, really without thinking, I took out my penis which was already about 80% erect.

So really, you have to take the full context of the situation into account.

...continue....

She lifted her phone, snapped a pic, and sued him for sexual harassment.

 

[McGarnicle]

Voted Suggestive Comment.

A couple of years ago I was pouring wine at a gay-centric event in Sonoma. There were about 30 men in the room and one in particular was 2.5 sheets to the wind. As I walked past his table to pour the next wine, he says to me, "I want to take you in the bathroom and S your D."

I said "no thanks" and continued to pour through the end of the dinner. On my way home I started thinking about how wildly inappropriate that comment had been, and I got a little offended. Sure, dude was drunk and may not have said that without the aid of alcohol, but it was still way out of bounds.

I don't understand why you would turn that down.

 

[Quint]

Voted Suggestive Comment.

A couple of years ago I was pouring wine at a gay-centric event in Sonoma. There were about 30 men in the room and one in particular was 2.5 sheets to the wind. As I walked past his table to pour the next wine, he says to me, "I want to take you in the bathroom and S your D."

I said "no thanks" and continued to pour through the end of the dinner. On my way home I started thinking about how wildly inappropriate that comment had been, and I got a little offended. Sure, dude was drunk and may not have said that without the aid of alcohol, but it was still way out of bounds.

I don't understand why you would turn that down.

i know. who turns down the unexpected BJ?

probably had something to do with my marriage and hetero-ness. next time though, i'm going for it.

 

[glock]

Two criteria for sexual harassment:

1) Sexual in nature

2) Unwanted

In situations with an increasing number of people, the chances rapidly rise that someone will find the actions unwanted.

 

[Gawain]

Voted Suggestive Comment.

A couple of years ago I was pouring wine at a gay-centric event in Sonoma. There were about 30 men in the room and one in particular was 2.5 sheets to the wind. As I walked past his table to pour the next wine, he says to me, "I want to take you in the bathroom and S your D."

I said "no thanks" and continued to pour through the end of the dinner. On my way home I started thinking about how wildly inappropriate that comment had been, and I got a little offended. Sure, dude was drunk and may not have said that without the aid of alcohol, but it was still way out of bounds.

I don't understand why you would turn that down.

i know. who turns down the unexpected BJ?

probably had something to do with my marriage and hetero-ness. next time though, i'm going for it.

But this was a customer, correct? Big difference there than with a co-worker/superior.

 

[SacramentoBob]

A gay dude hits on me and there's going to be a fight.

 

[jonessed]

Two criteria for sexual harassment:

1) Sexual in nature

2) Unwanted

In situations with an increasing number of people, the chances rapidly rise that someone will find the actions unwanted.

The hard part about "unwanted" is that not only can it be unwanted when the comment was made, but also, if the circumstances can be made out later to look unwanted.

It's really best to just be safe and interact with women in a very professional tone no matter the circumstances. Just don't go there.

Unfortunately, it's easy to do with people you work with regularly. I've never been accused of anything, but it's likely I've done something marginal. It's almost impossible not to at some point in your career.

 

[jonessed]

A gay dude hits on me and there's going to be a fight.

Don't ever work in the Bay Area.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

A gay dude hits on me and there's going to be a fight.

Same here. Gay guys fight over me all the time too.

 

[Keerock]

Voted Suggestive Comment.

A couple of years ago I was pouring wine at a gay-centric event in Sonoma. There were about 30 men in the room and one in particular was 2.5 sheets to the wind. As I walked past his table to pour the next wine, he says to me, "I want to take you in the bathroom and S your D."

I said "no thanks" and continued to pour through the end of the dinner. On my way home I started thinking about how wildly inappropriate that comment had been, and I got a little offended. Sure, dude was drunk and may not have said that without the aid of alcohol, but it was still way out of bounds.

I don't understand why you would turn that down.

i know. who turns down the unexpected BJ?

probably had something to do with my marriage and hetero-ness. next time though, i'm going for it.

Dentist doesn't discriminate.. why should you?

 

[lod01]

Flawed poll. Where is the 'only if she's fat and/or ugly' option?

Wait a minute. You are talking about gay dudes. I'm in the wrong thread.

 

[SacramentoBob]

A gay dude hits on me and there's going to be a fight.

Don't ever work in the Bay Area.

I don't look gay, so I figure it's a pretty low chance I have to knock some dude out.

 

[jonessed]

A gay dude hits on me and there's going to be a fight.

Don't ever work in the Bay Area.

I don't look gay, so I figure it's a pretty low chance I have to knock some dude out.

It doesn't matter.

 

[Henry Ford]

If she tells you she wants you to sit still while she strips your clothes off and runs her tongue all over your body, it isn't sexual harassment.

If she asks you if you want to split a hoagie for lunch, it's sexual harassment.

Hope that clears it up.

 

[Insein]

It's harassment if a woman says it is. Therefore it's advisable not to look at or speak to any woman in a workplace environment, ever.

Take off and nuke it from orbit. Its the only way to be sure.

 

[McGarnicle]

A gay dude hits on me and there's going to be a fight.

Don't ever work in the Bay Area.

I don't look gay, so I figure it's a pretty low chance I have to knock some dude out.

It doesn't matter.

In my experience living in midtown Atlanta they minded their own business. If they would occasionally hold eye contact a little too long, they quickly got the hint when I didn't do the same. It's completely a non-issue.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

This is a new way to come out of the closet, congrads on your new lifestyle choice TLEF

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Snitches get stitches

 

[Godsbrother]

It's harassment if a woman says it is. Therefore it's advisable not to look at or speak to any woman in a workplace environment, ever.

Best to avoid ANYTHING that could be considered offensive.

 

[Das Boot]

A gay dude hits on me and there's going to be a fight.

Whoa, whoa, simmer down, Sparky.