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Barack Obama's support among African-Americans (1 Viewer)

timschochet

Footballguy
I did not put this in the Obama thread for two reasons: first, because it is really more about society in general than specifically about Obama or any issue he stands for, and second, because I realize this could be a very volatile topic, even though I think it needs to be discussed.

The percentage of African Americans who support Obama's candidacy is now 90%. We can therefore assume that at least part of this support is based on identity politics: they are voting for him, at least in part, because he is a Black man.

This by itself should be troubling to no one. It is not racist, at least in my opinion, for Black people to want to see a Black man accomplish what only white men have up to this point in the history of our country. Indeed, from a purely historical standpoint, Senator Obama's election would be a milestone that all thinking people should be proud of, and it's quite proper for African Americans to be especially proud and happy if this happens.

What's problematic is what takes place afterward. If elected, Obama will immediately become the most prominent African-American in the history of this nation, even surpassing Martin Luther King. As has happened to every president in my lifetime and before, he will be subject to an immediate barrage of criticism from every part of this country, some of it so vitriolic it will border on hatred. That's how we roll in politics in this country.

My concern is that African-Americans (and others) will regard all such criticisms, including the valid ones, through a racial lens. Unfortunately, there is precedence to suggest that whenever criticism is directed at a prominent Black person in this country, it has been seen as racist by many within the African-American community no matter how justifiable that criticism is (recent examples include Barry Bonds and Michael Vick).

In a way, I understand this phenomenon, partly. I was raised a Jew, and to this day I (and many of my Jewish friends) are immediately suspicious of any criticism of prominent Jews or of Israel. Is it anti-Semitic? we always wonder before we hear anything else, as an automatic reflex. And Jews did not suffer any of the trials and tribulations of African-Americans in this country. There is a reason that they look at many things through a racial lens, and that reason is for the most part justifiable.

But if the majority of African-Americans do respond to criticism of Obama in a racial way, what effect will that have? Will it become political taboo to criticize Obama? Will those of us who do have to constantly fear being charged with racism? (The way that certain people in the Michelle Obama thread were immediately charged with it). And if so, what dampening effect will this have on free speech in this country during an Obama administration?

Please do not take this as an argument for voting against Barack Obama. It isn't. I will not vote for Senator Obama, but my reasons are substantive, I have stated them elsewhere and will continue to do so. If someone used this argument to in order to convince you to vote against the man, I would regard that as racist, and my response might very well be to vote for him just to prove a point.

But that doesn't clear up the issue I have stated. It looks more and more like Obama has at least a 50-50 chance of being our next president. If he is, how should we deal with this issue? Or, if you think its not an issue at all and that I'm just being delusional, please tell me so.

 
This is not something you can create a game plan for, so there really is no use worrying about it.

 
But if the majority of African-Americans do respond to criticism of Obama in a racial way, what effect will that have? Will it become political taboo to criticize Obama? Will those of us who do have to constantly fear being charged with racism? (The way that certain people in the Michelle Obama thread were immediately charged with it). And if so, what dampening effect will this have on free speech in this country during an Obama administration?
you're worried now about free speech after 8 years of this administration and the neo-con movement?
 
But if the majority of African-Americans do respond to criticism of Obama in a racial way, what effect will that have? Will it become political taboo to criticize Obama? Will those of us who do have to constantly fear being charged with racism? (The way that certain people in the Michelle Obama thread were immediately charged with it). And if so, what dampening effect will this have on free speech in this country during an Obama administration?
you're worried now about free speech after 8 years of this administration and the neo-con movement?
Although it has nothing to do with this issue, you do raise a very good point.
 
Two things I've learned in this thread, timschochet hates the Patriots and African Americans.
If you response to this thread is that I hate African Americans, then you have read nothing that I have written here, and it confirms my worst fears.
 
You're right. It's going to happen. But the only way out is through. President Obama is also going to receive criticism based solely on his race instead of substantive critiques. That's going to happen too. Neither should be a reason to vote against the man. And neither requires a specific plan of action more than a recognition that it will happen and his administration, the press, and the public should try to keep discussions focused on substantive issues as much as possible. That's the best response.

 
You're right. It's going to happen. But the only way out is through. President Obama is also going to receive criticism based solely on his race instead of substantive critiques. That's going to happen too. Neither should be a reason to vote against the man. And neither requires a specific plan of action more than a recognition that it will happen and his administration, the press, and the public should try to keep discussions focused on substantive issues as much as possible. That's the best response.
I agree with you Orange Crush. But have you noticed the immediate response to this thread? I'm already being accused of hating African-Americans!
 
I think you raise some interesting points. Unfortunately much of the knee jerk reaction you're wary of from the African American community is justifiable based on the history of race in our country, as you also note.

So while I agree that we'll face some uncomfortable and awkward moments over the next 8 years of an Obama presidency due to race being played, it's something we should have already overcome decades ago. Prolonging it only makes it worse.

 
The percentage of African Americans who support Obama's candidacy is now 90%. We can therefore assume that at least part of this support is based on identity politics: they are voting for him, at least in part, because he is a Black man.
What % of African-Americans voted for Kerry? Gore? Clinton in 1996? Clinton in 1992? Were any of those guys black? What was your point again?
 
I think you raise some interesting points. Unfortunately much of the knee jerk reaction you're wary of from the African American community is justifiable based on the history of race in our country, as you also note.So while I agree that we'll face some uncomfortable and awkward moments over the next 8 years of an Obama presidency due to race being played, it's something we should have already overcome decades ago. Prolonging it only makes it worse.
I agree with this as well. You and Orange Crush make me hopeful.
 
You're right. It's going to happen. But the only way out is through. President Obama is also going to receive criticism based solely on his race instead of substantive critiques. That's going to happen too. Neither should be a reason to vote against the man. And neither requires a specific plan of action more than a recognition that it will happen and his administration, the press, and the public should try to keep discussions focused on substantive issues as much as possible. That's the best response.
I agree with you Orange Crush. But have you noticed the immediate response to this thread? I'm already being accused of hating African-Americans!
Have you noticed that whenever race was an issue in this race, Obama has tended to kinda shrug it off?Like early on when, wasn't it Biden, said he was an articulate and clean black candidate, Obama didn't get all in a tuff about it and just shrugged it off and stood up for the guy?I'm not saying he won't speak out on important stuff, but it's clear to me that he doesn't want to make his campaign about race, and I imagine the same would be done with his presidency.
 
You're right. It's going to happen. But the only way out is through. President Obama is also going to receive criticism based solely on his race instead of substantive critiques. That's going to happen too. Neither should be a reason to vote against the man. And neither requires a specific plan of action more than a recognition that it will happen and his administration, the press, and the public should try to keep discussions focused on substantive issues as much as possible. That's the best response.
I agree with you Orange Crush. But have you noticed the immediate response to this thread? I'm already being accused of hating African-Americans!
Have you noticed that whenever race was an issue in this race, Obama has tended to kinda shrug it off?Like early on when, wasn't it Biden, said he was an articulate and clean black candidate, Obama didn't get all in a tuff about it and just shrugged it off and stood up for the guy?I'm not saying he won't speak out on important stuff, but it's clear to me that he doesn't want to make his campaign about race, and I imagine the same would be done with his presidency.
I agree, but as I wrote, the thread wasn't about Obama, but the rest of us. Still, I'm heartened by some of the responses to this thread.
 
You are leaving out of the equation how Obama responds to criticism.

I think the reason Bill Clinton's approval ratings stayed above 60% during the impeachment is that he refused to take the bait and debate the Clinton haters, but instead kept his eye on the ball and did his job, and kept his public comments focused on the job.

Obama has run a disciplined campaign and has avoided comments on race issues, like the repeated comments by cable network reporters trying to break everything down into racial group voting analysis. He's responded to criticism on the merits, and even dealt with the "he's secretly a Muslim" baloney head on without whining about false criticism.

 
The percentage of African Americans who support Obama's candidacy is now 90%. We can therefore assume that at least part of this support is based on identity politics: they are voting for him, at least in part, because he is a Black man.
What % of African-Americans voted for Kerry? Gore? Clinton in 1996? Clinton in 1992? Were any of those guys black? What was your point again?
Pretty sure Clinton was black in '92.
 
The percentage of African Americans who support Obama's candidacy is now 90%. We can therefore assume that at least part of this support is based on identity politics: they are voting for him, at least in part, because he is a Black man.
What % of African-Americans voted for Kerry? Gore? Clinton in 1996? Clinton in 1992? Were any of those guys black? What was your point again?
Pretty sure Clinton was black in '92.
Woof-woof said Arsenio Hall.
 
You're right. It's going to happen. But the only way out is through. President Obama is also going to receive criticism based solely on his race instead of substantive critiques. That's going to happen too. Neither should be a reason to vote against the man. And neither requires a specific plan of action more than a recognition that it will happen and his administration, the press, and the public should try to keep discussions focused on substantive issues as much as possible. That's the best response.
I agree with you Orange Crush. But have you noticed the immediate response to this thread? I'm already being accused of hating African-Americans!
Have you noticed that whenever race was an issue in this race, Obama has tended to kinda shrug it off?Like early on when, wasn't it Biden, said he was an articulate and clean black candidate, Obama didn't get all in a tuff about it and just shrugged it off and stood up for the guy?I'm not saying he won't speak out on important stuff, but it's clear to me that he doesn't want to make his campaign about race, and I imagine the same would be done with his presidency.
I agree, but as I wrote, the thread wasn't about Obama, but the rest of us. Still, I'm heartened by some of the responses to this thread.
Yeah, but I think the rest of us will follow his lead, more or less. There will still be the reactionary racially sensitive side, and there will be the proactive racially insensitive side, but I believe the heart of america falls in the 95% in the middle, and they will receive their cues from president obama on how to respond to certain comments.I agree with the below post that's on the same topic.
You are leaving out of the equation how Obama responds to criticism. I think the reason Bill Clinton's approval ratings stayed above 60% during the impeachment is that he refused to take the bait and debate the Clinton haters, but instead kept his eye on the ball and did his job, and kept his public comments focused on the job. Obama has run a disciplined campaign and has avoided comments on race issues, like the repeated comments by cable network reporters trying to break everything down into racial group voting analysis. He's responded to criticism on the merits, and even dealt with the "he's secretly a Muslim" baloney head on without whining about false criticism.
 
I'd say this is a valid consideration. My response would be that this could be - should be - a good thing for the continued integration of the good ol' US of A. Blacks will have to learn to accept criticism of a black President w/out filtering it through racial lens. Whites will need to accept the unprecedented leadership of a black President. This could be a wonderful success ...or a huge failure. But I am also intrigued by the viewpoint of the rest of the world ...the effect on relationships with African nations, and Islamic nations and factions. All in all, if Obama gets elected - ;)

 
But I am also intrigued by the viewpoint of the rest of the world ...the effect on relationships with African nations, and Islamic nations and factions. All in all, if Obama gets elected - ;)
A President Obama should be able to reach out to his fellow Muslims. I can see where he'd be a real asset in that regard.
 
that this could be - should be - a good thing for the continued integration of the good ol' US of A. Blacks will have to learn to accept criticism of a black President w/out filtering it through racial lens. Whites will need to accept the unprecedented leadership of a black President.
Thus tims post is another reason to vote FOR Obama. :pics:
 
But if the majority of African-Americans do respond to criticism of Obama in a racial way, what effect will that have? Will it become political taboo to criticize Obama? Will those of us who do have to constantly fear being charged with racism? (The way that certain people in the Michelle Obama thread were immediately charged with it). And if so, what dampening effect will this have on free speech in this country during an Obama administration?
you're worried now about free speech after 8 years of this administration and the neo-con movement?
Although it has nothing to do with this issue, you do raise a very good point.
whatever.how do you think obama's race has impacted his presidential campaign thusfar? early on, there was the concern that he wasn't "black enough" and hillary had support among the AA community. that has since changed but only in one part. the AA community has come up to support him. i believe the subsequent questions of race, his "blackness", et al have quieted because no one has felt the need to revisit them. he's not trading on his racial identity after all.

 
I'd say this is a valid consideration. My response would be that this could be - should be - a good thing for the continued integration of the good ol' US of A. Blacks will have to learn to accept criticism of a black President w/out filtering it through racial lens. Whites will need to accept the unprecedented leadership of a black President. This could be a wonderful success ...or a huge failure. But I am also intrigued by the viewpoint of the rest of the world ...the effect on relationships with African nations, and Islamic nations and factions. All in all, if Obama gets elected - :pics:
Absolutely, this could be a very good thing for the nation. It would be a very interesting thing indeed, on many levels, for him to make it there.
 
I'd say this is a valid consideration. My response would be that this could be - should be - a good thing for the continued integration of the good ol' US of A. Blacks will have to learn to accept criticism of a black President w/out filtering it through racial lens. Whites will need to accept the unprecedented leadership of a black President. This could be a wonderful success ...or a huge failure. But I am also intrigued by the viewpoint of the rest of the world ...the effect on relationships with African nations, and Islamic nations and factions. All in all, if Obama gets elected - :pics:
But your belief that this could or should be a "good thing" and a "wonderful success" could itself be part of the issue. All of us, not just African-Americans, will not percieve Barack Obama as just another President of the United States. There's no way you cannot be cognizant of his skin color. Most of us want to see an African American be a successful president. Certainly no one wants to see him fail. But does that mean we will overlook or go along with policies that we disagree with because we want so badly for him not to fail? I include myself among the people I'm talking about: if he is indeed elected, I certainly want him to succeed.
 
I'd say this is a valid consideration. My response would be that this could be - should be - a good thing for the continued integration of the good ol' US of A. Blacks will have to learn to accept criticism of a black President w/out filtering it through racial lens. Whites will need to accept the unprecedented leadership of a black President. This could be a wonderful success ...or a huge failure. But I am also intrigued by the viewpoint of the rest of the world ...the effect on relationships with African nations, and Islamic nations and factions. All in all, if Obama gets elected - :popcorn:
But your belief that this could or should be a "good thing" and a "wonderful success" could itself be part of the issue. All of us, not just African-Americans, will not percieve Barack Obama as just another President of the United States. There's no way you cannot be cognizant of his skin color. Most of us want to see an African American be a successful president. Certainly no one wants to see him fail. But does that mean we will overlook or go along with policies that we disagree with because we want so badly for him not to fail? I include myself among the people I'm talking about: if he is indeed elected, I certainly want him to succeed.
A: His becoming president can be a positive step no matter what his +/- ratio ultimately is.
 
But if the majority of African-Americans do respond to criticism of Obama in a racial way, what effect will that have? Will it become political taboo to criticize Obama? Will those of us who do have to constantly fear being charged with racism? (The way that certain people in the Michelle Obama thread were immediately charged with it). And if so, what dampening effect will this have on free speech in this country during an Obama administration?
you're worried now about free speech after 8 years of this administration and the neo-con movement?
Although it has nothing to do with this issue, you do raise a very good point.
whatever.how do you think obama's race has impacted his presidential campaign thusfar? early on, there was the concern that he wasn't "black enough" and hillary had support among the AA community. that has since changed but only in one part. the AA community has come up to support him. i believe the subsequent questions of race, his "blackness", et al have quieted because no one has felt the need to revisit them. he's not trading on his racial identity after all.
I don't think Obama's race has impacted or will impact the election in anything but a positive way, (with the sole possible exception of the troubling Latino-African-American rift within the Democratic party.) As I wrote, his presence thus far and his triumph if elected will be a great day for all Americans, a proof to ourselves that we have "made it" as a nation. The concerns I am writing about regard what happens afterwards, not with the man per se, but with our reaction to him.
 
The concerns I am writing about regard what happens afterwards, not with the man per se, but with our reaction to him.
We would hope that he is treated fairly. He can earn his own merits and demerits. If he deserves criticism, so be it. Or if he earns praise, then so be it also.
 

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