Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
We saw Cutler give it a game effort before being lost to injury. Ditto Collins.
What do you guys think is the problem?
What do you guys think is the problem?
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Bears Offense: what have we learned? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Nightly Mistake
- Start date
twistd
Footballguy
Cutler was holding on to the ball way too long. Martz was calling plays that took way too long to develop. Todd Collins has no business in the NFL. The offensive line blows. They have no legitimate tackles. They thought that bringing in Mike Tice would improve this o-line. Turns out he can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. The Bears really don't know how to handle or develop QBs. This system is a poor fit for the Bears. You have a weak o-line, and a system that creates turnovers. Cutler had 26 interceptions last year. And you bring in a system that increases your interceptions. This was a hail mary pass that isn't going to work. Cutler won't survive the year. I think the season is downhill from here. I didn't draft any Bears offensive players. Turns out that was the smart thing to do.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I learned that Todd Collins should retire post-haste.
Sister Havana
Footballguy
The offensive line is truly offensive.
Sammy Traveller
Footballguy
Don't be so defensive, Bears fan.
a terrifyingly informative point
Hmmm! Isn't that what they used to say about Cedric Benson when he played for the Bears? Now that Cedric plays somewhere else, he isn't so bad. Is it Forte that's bad or the O-Line?
Mad Mike Martz
Footballguy
<------Mike Martz=bad fit for Chicago.
His scheme worked great for the Greatest Show on Turf. But not many teams have personnel equal to Bruce/Holt/Faulk/Proehl/Warner in their primes.
His scheme worked great for the Greatest Show on Turf. But not many teams have personnel equal to Bruce/Holt/Faulk/Proehl/Warner in their primes.
yeah I see Forte getting hit often in the back field ... this oline does little blocking in any facet of the game.
Abrantes
Footballguy
I'm not a big Forte backer, but that's pretty extreme. He is an acceptable RB who struggles to make something out of nothing, so he'll have a hard time running behind this OL.
timschochet
Footballguy
I honestly don't think we learned anything. I think the Giants were embarrassed by the last few games, and they had something to prove on a cold Sunday night at home. We all must have seen this a hundred times when a team turns it on at home at night. Nothing was going to stop that Giants D-Line tonight. They just had a superb night.
I tend to agree. There's no doubt the Chicago OL isn't very good, but it kind of snow balled tonight. Indy's OL looked like crap in week 1 and they had their way with this same Giants DL. The Bears OL did just fine holding up against Dallas with Ware rushing the QB. It's just one of those games.
YouthofToday
Footballguy
Cutler looked shell shocked out there. After the first possession he seemed to clam up and zone out -- it was if he was holding on to the ball too long to make the point to somebody how bad the oline is.
Unbelievable the Bears did not address this problem in the offseason in a substantial way.
Unbelievable the Bears did not address this problem in the offseason in a substantial way.
Ya, that concussion may have happened a lot earlier than the play at the end of the half...either that or diabetic issues or something. We've been waiting for them to address the line almost as long as we had been waiting for a quarterback it feels like.
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Football Critic
Footballguy
Has Martz heard of the Shotgun?
Really? that was the worse display of football I have seen in quite sometime.
Mike Tice should not only be fired, but should be banned from the league for horrible fundamentals.
...and lets not blame just the line, since when has Cutler (or anyone not name P. Manning) been able to hold on to the ball for 6 seconds, and not get popped? Lose the tude Cutler, and play football.
Is it me or does it seem like Cutler is that kid that if you dont give him a treat before nap time, he will pout for a week?
Really? that was the worse display of football I have seen in quite sometime.
Mike Tice should not only be fired, but should be banned from the league for horrible fundamentals.
...and lets not blame just the line, since when has Cutler (or anyone not name P. Manning) been able to hold on to the ball for 6 seconds, and not get popped? Lose the tude Cutler, and play football.
Is it me or does it seem like Cutler is that kid that if you dont give him a treat before nap time, he will pout for a week?
OMG! Ponies!
Footballguy
OL or not, Forte has been declining ever since 2008. and in 2008, his 3.9 ypc wasn't impressive to begin with.2009, 3.6 ypc.2010 2.7 ypc.his receptions from week 1 through week 4 have dropped every week (7, 5, 2), but remained constant from week 3 to week 4 at 2. so whatever your opinion of Forte is as a talent, it seems pretty clear to me that he is not an effective runner.
Football Critic
Footballguy
Bolded statement shows me a lack of understanding footballNo Oline = No production
Good Oline = Good production
Declining since 2008? He was a rookie then, and had a bad knee last year, hmmmm..... Do you watch football, or just tune into NFL Live?
Was he effective week 1? calm down, its only week 4
the branded hand
Footballguy
this
this
and this...9 sacks in the first half! NINE!!! The o-line sucked so bad last night a new stat line for defensive players could have been created... stolen hand-offs.
FavreCo
Footballguy
No idea why others can't figure this out. I've been saying this since his flop as HC of STL. Every QB he has 'is the best he has ever been around'. S. Hill, O'Sullivan, Kitna (who he said was better than Warner). The idiot gets his QB's killed. Martz is a winner only when he has HOF talent at the skill psoitions. He can't adjust to the personnel he has.
NatronIsMean
Footballguy
9 sacks first half. That's all the analysis you need to do. And no - the fault does not lie with Cutler. He could have avoided perhaps 2-3 of those sacks by getting rid of the ball early, but that's not what Martz wants or those plays asked for. Without the offense breaking down Cutler would have needed eyes in the back of his head and Vick-like mobility last night. Just utter failure of our offensive line against the Giants D-line...
switz
Footballguy
Benson still isn't great... his YPC is on par with what it was in Chicago, he's just on a team that will continue to use him even if his YPC is low.Thing is, last night Chester Taylor looked a lot faster than Forte, granted he only has a handful of carries, but Forte seemed to dance and run laterally a lot, whereas Taylor ran straight ahead and got past the line quick.
However, I agree, the OL is terrible... but the running game isn't helping it at all.. at least the threat of a ground game would prevent DL from pinning their ears back and teeing off on the QB... they can do that and still tackle Forte cuz he's so slow taking off with the ball
switz
Footballguy
Actually that is EXACTLY what Martz's offense calls for. Quick decision, quick release. That's what Warner was so good at, and it's what Cutler is so bad at. The Earl Bennett play (where Bennett was wide open, and Cutler refused to check down) is a perfect example of where Warner would have gotten the ball to the open WR and let the WR rack up YAC, a la Boldin and Bruce in previous incarnations of the system.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Reminded me of Green Bay last year.
Both with the QB holding the ball...and the coach/OC refusing to adjust to quicker drops. Though, seemed Cutler even stood in there on a few 3 step drops.
Mindblowing though that you see these 15-20+ yard routes over and over when your QB is getting hammered back there.
Finally with Collins in there they went to quicker drops and passes and low and behold they gave up fewer sacks in the 2nd half.
Both with the QB holding the ball...and the coach/OC refusing to adjust to quicker drops. Though, seemed Cutler even stood in there on a few 3 step drops.
Mindblowing though that you see these 15-20+ yard routes over and over when your QB is getting hammered back there.
Finally with Collins in there they went to quicker drops and passes and low and behold they gave up fewer sacks in the 2nd half.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Yes and no...his offense is also quite vertical with plays that do take a while to develop...thats why no matter where he went, his QBs got sacked a lot. I think it was close to an average of 40 times a season for Martz QBs (as an OC)
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I kept thinking last night if the Bears switched to Chester Taylor running the ball and continuing to look for Olsen, and considering the bears defense was playing pretty darn well itself, that CHI had a shot at winning that game. But Martz seemed just plain inflexible in his game plan. After Cutler got sacked 3 times you would think there would be an adjustment in the gameplan.Also considering Cutler is the centerpiece of the whole offense you'd think Martz would find a way to stop throwing him into rush-heavy situations.
What terrible offensive in-game coaching.
switz
Footballguy
Running the ball? 2.9 YPC is not effective, and that was his best YPC of the year.He had one 89 yard reception week one, and that's about all he's done all year.
pantagrapher
Footballguy
Early on, I was hoping to see the same kind of adjustment they made against Dallas. It just never happened. That was as bad as I've ever seen that o-line and running game look. And I did get the feeling that Cutler was frustrated and ready for the next sack going into each play. A few times he did have time to throw, he couldn't get rid of it and I wondered if he was just afraid of having his arm tomahawked from behind. There was one play in particular where he lost his footing at the end of his drop, but still had time to throw, he just couldn't seem to recover his footwork and was ready to go down.
The offensive problem started with that line. There's no question about it. And either the personnel couldn't implement an adjustment or Martz never tried to adjust. I doubt the latter after the Dallas game.
The offensive problem started with that line. There's no question about it. And either the personnel couldn't implement an adjustment or Martz never tried to adjust. I doubt the latter after the Dallas game.
dansav
Footballguy
Did Forte do something to you personally Switz? It seems you really dislike him.
switz
Footballguy
No, not at all. I just don't understand why people continue to tout him as a great RB.It's not like he's lacked opportunity, he's just not done much with the opportunity given. He'd be great as a third down RB, because he's an excellent receiver. He's just a poor runner, currently running behind a bad OL.
When people say "he was effective" I don't need to have something personal against a player to point out they're incorrect. It's just a statement of facts, not opinions.
Football Critic
Footballguy
Who saying hes great? Some are saying, hes not horrible....and most of this is not his fault.No, not at all. I just don't understand why people continue to tout him as a great RB.It's not like he's lacked opportunity, he's just not done much with the opportunity given. He'd be great as a third down RB, because he's an excellent receiver. He's just a poor runner, currently running behind a bad OL.
az_prof
Footballguy
The problem is that on a fantasy board "effective" means--did he get me 15 or more fantasy points. So, he could run crappy but he caught a few passes and wracked up ppr points, and he was "effective." But as a real NFL back, he wasn't and isn't. I agree with Switz, Forte is an average to below average starting NFL back.No, not at all. I just don't understand why people continue to tout him as a great RB.It's not like he's lacked opportunity, he's just not done much with the opportunity given. He'd be great as a third down RB, because he's an excellent receiver. He's just a poor runner, currently running behind a bad OL.
switz
Footballguy
But 40 times a season is just over 2 per game, not 9 like last night. The thing with Martz's offense is that on there are a lot of vertical plays, but on every single play there is a short option. The reason Faulk had so many receptions in StL is because Warner would use the short option as soon as he saw the vertical routes were not open. In Chicago, Olsen and Forte have been used this year as short options, but Cutler locks onto the deep routes more often than not. Martz system requires a QB with very very quick recognition of how a play will develop, and a very quick release, and honestly Cutler is just not a quick enough decision maker for Martz's system.
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That isn't true- the Bears were playing max protect quite a bit last night, so there were times when only 2 receivers were in patterns. If your line cant block 4 guys with 8 and give your QB 5 seconds to throw the ball, its going to be a very long night no matter what you do. And even in a more normal set, if the check down guys are covered what then? Of if its 3rd and 12? The guy is out there trying to make plays... obviously he made some bad decisions, but the circumstances were about as brutal as you will ever see a QB face. No running game and rushers just running practically free on every single play. My question is what happened to the screen pass last night? Its been totally effective this season, they have 2 great backs for it, and its the basic recipe for slowing down an aggressive pass rush. Say what you want but Martz didn't do this offense any favors. If you are going to abandon the run you at least need to make designed pass plays to your running backs that have the effect of a run. I didn't understand the play calling at all.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
Its 2.5 per game. And you don't get to 40 without a 4-5 sack game.And yes, not like 9 last night...that is a huge issue.
But again...big sack numbers are not new with a Martz offense.
And I agree that you have to have the quick recognition...and it does not look like Cutler can handle that.
That Ross blitz seemed to expose that for sure...
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
- o-line gives up mad sacks and penalties
- Cutler stinks on 3rd down
- turnover prone
- no running game
None of that has changed in the last 20 Bears games though so I guess I didn't actually learn anything new last night.
- Cutler stinks on 3rd down
- turnover prone
- no running game
None of that has changed in the last 20 Bears games though so I guess I didn't actually learn anything new last night.
FallenHero32
Footballguy
Lovie should have been fired at the end of last year and an entire new coaching staff brought in to start fresh. It basically comes down to Lovie having the final say on all personnel issues and his failure to address key points in the bears, mainly the O-Line, WR core, and Safety/CB position. O-Line being the biggest issue of them all, as without a halfway decent O-Line you have no run OR pass game, especially in a system that Martz runs. The Lovie regime rarely makes in game or even in season adjustments, and when they do, its only because they are left with little to no choice or it is so painfully obvious not to address the issue would cost him his job.In all honesty, what we saw last night was the Bears I have been expecting. My hope for this season is to finish at best 6-10 so that coaching changes can happen that will allow this team to move forward instead of trying to re-create the miracle Superbowl run year that we had.Lovie doesn't have the final say in personnel, Jerry Angelo does. Which is to say the whole front office needs to go as well. Their neglect of the o-line and misfire on draft picks over the years is criminal. Its not just the high round picks either- good teams build their depth in the middle rounds and the Bears are terrible at that. Which is why there are guys coming off the street and starting on that o-line.
That isn't true- the Bears were playing max protect quite a bit last night, so there were times when only 2 receivers were in patterns. If your line cant block 4 guys with 8 and give your QB 5 seconds to throw the ball, its going to be a very long night no matter what you do. And even in a more normal set, if the check down guys are covered what then? Of if its 3rd and 12? The guy is out there trying to make plays... obviously he made some bad decisions, but the circumstances were about as brutal as you will ever see a QB face. No running game and rushers just running practically free on every single play.
My question is what happened to the screen pass last night? Its been totally effective this season, they have 2 great backs for it, and its the basic recipe for slowing down an aggressive pass rush. Say what you want but Martz didn't do this offense any favors. If you are going to abandon the run you at least need to make designed pass plays to your running backs that have the effect of a run. I didn't understand the play calling at all.
I thought the league standard was closer to 3 seconds. In three seconds W.R.'s can cover nearly 30 yards. Am I misinformed about the league standard? 5 seconds seems an eternity.
My question is what happened to the screen pass last night? Its been totally effective this season, they have 2 great backs for it, and its the basic recipe for slowing down an aggressive pass rush. Say what you want but Martz didn't do this offense any favors. If you are going to abandon the run you at least need to make designed pass plays to your running backs that have the effect of a run. I didn't understand the play calling at all.
I thought the league standard was closer to 3 seconds. In three seconds W.R.'s can cover nearly 30 yards. Am I misinformed about the league standard? 5 seconds seems an eternity.
