Bears Offense: what have we learned? (1 Viewer)

[CalBear]

Jay Cutler fun fact: He has not QBed a team to a winning record since his senior year in high school (8 seasons and counting).

 

[coyote5]

Jay Cutler fun fact: He has not QBed a team to a winning record since his senior year in high school (8 seasons and counting).

So the Bears need to draft Greg McElroy, he hasn't lost since middle school. Problem solved!

 

[whitem0nkey]

In Jay Cutler's last year in Denver, he was sacked 11 times on 627 pass plays in 16 games. He's been sacked 12 times in last game & a half.

Important to note that Jay Cutler has started 57 straight games

Bears on pace for just 44 rushing first downs this year. Last year they had 71, fewest for the team in a 16 game season.

My fear is that last night's bears team closer to reality than Bears we saw first three weeks.

10 sacks allowed by Bears matches most ever by Mike Martz offense. Eagles got Lions for 10 on 9/23/07.

but what I did not learn but already knew its the Oline. its as simple as that. If the bears had and avg. line they would look immensely better on offense.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Was [Forte] effective week 1? calm down, its only week 4

Running the ball? 2.9 YPC is not effective, and that was his best YPC of the year.He had one 89 yard reception week one, and that's about all he's done all year.

Did Forte do something to you personally Switz? It seems you really dislike him.

No, not at all. I just don't understand why people continue to tout him as a great RB.

I wonder the same thing about Felix Jones...

 

[sho nuff]

In Jay Cutler's last year in Denver, he was sacked 11 times on 627 pass plays in 16 games. He's been sacked 12 times in last game & a half.Important to note that Jay Cutler has started 57 straight gamesBears on pace for just 44 rushing first downs this year. Last year they had 71, fewest for the team in a 16 game season.My fear is that last night's bears team closer to reality than Bears we saw first three weeks.10 sacks allowed by Bears matches most ever by Mike Martz offense. Eagles got Lions for 10 on 9/23/07.but what I did not learn but already knew its the Oline. its as simple as that. If the bears had and avg. line they would look immensely better on offense.

Thats what you get trusting a guy from Tennessee Tech as your LT signed,a proud TTU grad who realizes our football team was never worth watching

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

In Jay Cutler's last year in Denver, he was sacked 11 times on 627 pass plays in 16 games. He's been sacked 12 times in last game & a half.Important to note that Jay Cutler has started 57 straight gamesBears on pace for just 44 rushing first downs this year. Last year they had 71, fewest for the team in a 16 game season.My fear is that last night's bears team closer to reality than Bears we saw first three weeks.10 sacks allowed by Bears matches most ever by Mike Martz offense. Eagles got Lions for 10 on 9/23/07.but what I did not learn but already knew its the Oline. its as simple as that. If the bears had and avg. line they would look immensely better on offense.

To me, Chester Taylor makes more sense as a starter.Any Bears fans saying this?

 

[healthpellets]

Declining since 2008? He was a rookie then, and had a bad knee last year, hmmmm..... Do you watch football, or just tune into NFL Live?Was he effective week 1? calm down, its only week 4

the "bad knee" doesn't explain his sub par 3.9 ypc in 2008.nor does it explain his dismal ypc in 2010.was he effective week 1? boy, was he ever. 37% of his YTD rushing yards came in week 1. 72% of his YTD receiving yards came in week 1.43% of his entire YTD receiving yards came on ONE BUSTED PLAY in week one against the Lions.if you want to ride this Matt Forte express all the way to the ground, be my guest.

 

[switz]

I wonder the same thing about Felix Jones...

Probably because Felix Jones has looked great in limited opportunities, as compared to Forte who has looked average at best with a lot of opportunity.

 

[healthpellets]

a final thought on Forte: in 2010, 6 GL opportunities, zero rushing TDs.

 

[cvnpoka]

<------Mike Martz=bad fit for Chicago.His scheme worked great for the Greatest Show on Turf. But not many teams have personnel equal to Bruce/Holt/Faulk/Proehl/Warner in their primes.

dont forget orlando pace

 

[whitem0nkey]

bears were 0-13 on 3rd down.

 

[mbuehner]

I thought the league standard was closer to 3 seconds. In three seconds W.R.'s can cover nearly 30 yards. Am I misinformed about the league standard? 5 seconds seems an eternity.

It depends on how many steps the drop is in a given play. You can't make a 7 step drop in 3 seconds. If you are in max protect you have 2 tight ends plus a running back in pass protection, generally your 2 WRs are running deep posts or corner patterns. Because your line is wider than usual the pocket is expected to be deeper, so the QB can make the seven steps and then step back up into his throw. This is not a set designed to get the ball out in 3 seconds, the receivers wont have made their break yet.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

We saw Cutler give it a game effort before being lost to injury. Ditto Collins.

What do you guys think is the problem?

9 sacks first half. That's all the analysis you need to do. And no - the fault does not lie with Cutler. He could have avoided perhaps 2-3 of those sacks by getting rid of the ball early, but that's not what Martz wants or those plays asked for.

Actually that is EXACTLY what Martz's offense calls for. Quick decision, quick release. That's what Warner was so good at, and it's what Cutler is so bad at. The Earl Bennett play (where Bennett was wide open, and Cutler refused to check down) is a perfect example of where Warner would have gotten the ball to the open WR and let the WR rack up YAC, a la Boldin and Bruce in previous incarnations of the system.

Yes and no...his offense is also quite vertical with plays that do take a while to develop...thats why no matter where he went, his QBs got sacked a lot. I think it was close to an average of 40 times a season for Martz QBs (as an OC)

But 40 times a season is just over 2 per game, not 9 like last night. The thing with Martz's offense is that on there are a lot of vertical plays, but on every single play there is a short option. The reason Faulk had so many receptions in StL is because Warner would use the short option as soon as he saw the vertical routes were not open. In Chicago, Olsen and Forte have been used this year as short options, but Cutler locks onto the deep routes more often than not. Martz system requires a QB with very very quick recognition of how a play will develop, and a very quick release, and honestly Cutler is just not a quick enough decision maker for Martz's system.

Actually it seemed to me there not many instances where underneath, short or outlet patterns were being run.There was no adjustment by Martz, and it's not just a "system" thing. With that kind of rush most decent OC/head coaches would have gone to the better runner, Taylor, and taken heat off his QB with screens, flats, outlets, cross patterns, slants, etc.

Martz does not even seem to understand that the passing game is an extension of the running game.

The thread is right; Martz had Warner, had some of the greatest success ever, and somehow he took from that the lesson that HE was one of the NFL's greats and that HIS system was genius, not that Warner was one of the all-time greats and that Warner was a genius.

 

[mbuehner]

Here's a copy of the 2000 Rams playbook if anyone is interested. Its 411 pages long and includes descriptions of how to huddle up ("Y and H close out huddle facing each other- hands on knees - good squared up position. Eyes on QB!"), the dimensions of the field including hash marks etc, and of course all the different formations, packages, and derivatives.

 

[switz]

Actually it seemed to me there not many instances where underneath, short or outlet patterns were being run.

They were being run. On the sack that knocked Cutler out, the commentators showed Bennett open on a short route. And on the INT Cutler threw, his target was on a short route. Those are two examples everyone should be aware of, but on the rest of the plays there were short routes being run as well as some deeper stuff. Could they have run more draws and threw some screens in, yeah, for sure, and that's on Martz. But ignoring the guys that were on the shorter routes is on Cutler.

 

[videoguy505]

Jay Cutler fun fact: He has not QBed a team to a winning record since his senior year in high school (8 seasons and counting).

Serious Question: In the pregame show, I thought I heard Martz claim that his pre-draft evaluation of Cutler ranked him as the best QB prospect he'd rated, ever. The highest score on the Martz scale...If that's true, what variable is being measured? What possible evaluation scale runs from "0 to Jay Cutler at the top"? What is he looking at? What Cutlerishness are the other QBs missing?

 

[switz]

Jay Cutler fun fact: He has not QBed a team to a winning record since his senior year in high school (8 seasons and counting).

Serious Question: In the pregame show, I thought I heard Martz claim that his pre-draft evaluation of Cutler ranked him as the best QB prospect he'd rated, ever. The highest score on the Martz scale...If that's true, what variable is being measured? What possible evaluation scale runs from "0 to Jay Cutler at the top"? What is he looking at? What Cutlerishness are the other QBs missing?

It's pretty meaningless. Martz says that about pretty much every QB he coaches...

 

[CalBear]

If that's true, what variable is being measured? What possible evaluation scale runs from "0 to Jay Cutler at the top"? What is he looking at? What Cutlerishness are the other QBs missing?

His 40-grocery-bag time is off the charts. Good thing, he'll be needing those skills soon.

 

[Clifford]

I learned that I'll think twice before starting any Bears against teams with a strong DL. I had to avert my eyes today, 'cause their OL is even worse than I expected based on preseason performances.

What was the difference between the guys that lined up last night and the guys that lined up against GB? That's what I want to know. Looked like two totally different sets of players. The guys that played GB did a great job of stopping Clay Mathews. #######g Rainbow Brite could have gotten three sacks against them last night.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I wonder the same thing about Felix Jones...

Probably because Felix Jones has looked great in limited opportunities, as compared to Forte who has looked average at best with a lot of opportunity.

Key word is limited....probably a reason for that. Oh and that 4.0 YPC is really GREAT this year.

 

[switz]

I wonder the same thing about Felix Jones...

Probably because Felix Jones has looked great in limited opportunities, as compared to Forte who has looked average at best with a lot of opportunity.

Key word is limited....probably a reason for that. Oh and that 4.0 YPC is really GREAT this year.

You can guess at the reason all you want, but it probably lies somewhere between coaches who want to use all three RBs, and coaches who want to pass all the time. Neither one of those speak to Jones talent.On the other hand, even at 4.0 YPC thus year, it's better than any year by Forte.

 

[mbuehner]

Actually it seemed to me there not many instances where underneath, short or outlet patterns were being run.

They were being run. On the sack that knocked Cutler out, the commentators showed Bennett open on a short route. And on the INT Cutler threw, his target was on a short route. Those are two examples everyone should be aware of, but on the rest of the plays there were short routes being run as well as some deeper stuff. Could they have run more draws and threw some screens in, yeah, for sure, and that's on Martz. But ignoring the guys that were on the shorter routes is on Cutler.

That was not always true. Instead of getting the ball out of Cutler's hands faster with a quick pass/screen pass game, Martz instead went to a max protection scheme, which obviously meant less receivers running routes. If you watch the sack highlights you can see seven and eight blockers... excuse me 'blockers' in several of the plays. A lot of those plays, particularly toward the end of the half, there were 2 or 3 receivers in patterns. Martz offense is predicated on flooding zones and doing other things to attack specific areas of the field or positions. It just doesn't work with subpar WRs trying to win matchups, and that's on Martz. I'm not saying Cutler didn't miss some open guys, but you can't say that EVERY sack there was an open receiver he missed. One thing on that Bennett clip everyone is pointing to- it was 3rd down and Bennett was short of the sticks and there was a linebacker waiting at the marker. Now should you make the open throw and let your guy make a play instead of throwing into double coverage? Of course- but its not quite as clear cut as you guys make it sound, generally the first rule is to run your pattern to the first down, which is what Olsen did. I can understand not trusting Earl Bennett to get you that first down and going to the guy you do trust. It was the wrong thing to do against that coverage, but its not too tough to pick apart any QB from any game and say he should have done X instead of Y. Its a fast game.

 

[switz]

Actually it seemed to me there not many instances where underneath, short or outlet patterns were being run.

They were being run. On the sack that knocked Cutler out, the commentators showed Bennett open on a short route. And on the INT Cutler threw, his target was on a short route. Those are two examples everyone should be aware of, but on the rest of the plays there were short routes being run as well as some deeper stuff. Could they have run more draws and threw some screens in, yeah, for sure, and that's on Martz. But ignoring the guys that were on the shorter routes is on Cutler.

That was not always true. Instead of getting the ball out of Cutler's hands faster with a quick pass/screen pass game, Martz instead went to a max protection scheme, which obviously meant less receivers running routes. If you watch the sack highlights you can see seven and eight blockers... excuse me 'blockers' in several of the plays. A lot of those plays, particularly toward the end of the half, there were 2 or 3 receivers in patterns. Martz offense is predicated on flooding zones and doing other things to attack specific areas of the field or positions. It just doesn't work with subpar WRs trying to win matchups, and that's on Martz. I'm not saying Cutler didn't miss some open guys, but you can't say that EVERY sack there was an open receiver he missed. One thing on that Bennett clip everyone is pointing to- it was 3rd down and Bennett was short of the sticks and there was a linebacker waiting at the marker. Now should you make the open throw and let your guy make a play instead of throwing into double coverage? Of course- but its not quite as clear cut as you guys make it sound, generally the first rule is to run your pattern to the first down, which is what Olsen did. I can understand not trusting Earl Bennett to get you that first down and going to the guy you do trust. It was the wrong thing to do against that coverage, but its not too tough to pick apart any QB from any game and say he should have done X instead of Y. Its a fast game.

That's a good post, you make some valid points. Of course the protection scheme changed and removed some guys from being out on a pattern. But that happened after Cutler had already taken a number of sacks from (at least partially) holding the ball too long. I don't put it all on Cutler like some here do, but I also don't absolve him completely like some others do.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I wonder the same thing about Felix Jones...

Probably because Felix Jones has looked great in limited opportunities, as compared to Forte who has looked average at best with a lot of opportunity.

Key word is limited....probably a reason for that. Oh and that 4.0 YPC is really GREAT this year.

You can guess at the reason all you want, but it probably lies somewhere between coaches who want to use all three RBs, and coaches who want to pass all the time. Neither one of those speak to Jones talent.On the other hand, even at 4.0 YPC thus year, it's better than any year by Forte.

Because the chance of that has to be 0% in Switz's world.

Just like Forte's struggles running the football aren't linked to the OL at all.

 

[Touchdown There]

I've learned that any Defense with a decent front 7 is worth starting against the Bears

I thought the same thing when they played Dallas in the first quarter. Your statement is a nugget of fantasy gold.

 

[switz]

I wonder the same thing about Felix Jones...

Probably because Felix Jones has looked great in limited opportunities, as compared to Forte who has looked average at best with a lot of opportunity.

Key word is limited....probably a reason for that. Oh and that 4.0 YPC is really GREAT this year.

You can guess at the reason all you want, but it probably lies somewhere between coaches who want to use all three RBs, and coaches who want to pass all the time. Neither one of those speak to Jones talent.On the other hand, even at 4.0 YPC thus year, it's better than any year by Forte.

Because the chance of that has to be 0% in Switz's world.

Just like Forte's struggles running the football aren't linked to the OL at all.

Wait, I thought Forte struggled because he was injured, no wait, before that it was because he had no QB... Now it's the OL? Can you make up your mind?

 

[cubbie5150]

bears were 0-13 on 3rd down.

Not exactly a fluke either... They were something like 1-11 on 3rd down @ Dallas... Common denominator? Cowboys & Giants good D-lines...