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Better record (1 Viewer)

Husker

Footballguy
Yes, I know the answer. These are the same record.

In my main league, the team with the lesser tie breaker (division record) is claiming he should make the playoffs based on the better season record. He is claiming the 7-7 is a better record than 6-6-2. He is being nice about it (good guy), but can someone provide some support to help me here? I'm sure the NFL counts a tie as 1/2 win and 1/2 loss, but I'm having trouble substanting that argument.

78.3% of the people on this Board are smarter than me, so I am requesting help.

 
See Here or look at my highlight below

-QG

NFL Tiebreaking Procedures

(March 20, 2002) -- With the NFL realigning into eight four-team divisions to accommodate the arrival of the Houston Texans, the league adopted new tiebreaking rules.

Common opponents will now be the third tiebreaker within a division after head-to-head games and division record because each of the four teams will have 14 common games in the 16-game schedule. The owners also moved the strength-of-victory tiebreaker ahead of the strength-of-schedule tiebreaker.

The six postseason participants from each conference will now be seeded as follows:

1. The division champion with the best record.

2. The division champion with the second-best record.

3. The division champion with the third-best record.

4. The division champion with the fourth-best record.

5. The Wild Card club with the best record.

6. The Wild Card club with the second-best record.

The following procedures will be used to break standings ties for postseason playoffs and to determine regular-season schedules.

NOTE: Tie games count as one-half win and one-half loss for both clubs.

TO BREAK A TIE WITHIN A DIVISION

If, at the end of the regular season, two or more clubs in the same division finish with identical won-lost-tied percentages, the following steps will be taken until a champion is determined.

Two Clubs

1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).

2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.

3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.

4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.

5. Strength of victory.

6. Strength of schedule.

7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.

8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.

9. Best net points in common games.

10. Best net points in all games.

11. Best net touchdowns in all games.

Three or More Clubs

(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated during any step, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of the two-club format).

1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games among the clubs).

2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.

3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.

4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.

5. Strength of victory.

6. Strength of schedule.

7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.

8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.

9. Best net points in common games.

10. Best net points in all games.

11. Best net touchdowns in all games.

TO BREAK A TIE FOR THE WILD-CARD TEAM

If it is necessary to break ties to determine the two Wild-Card clubs from each conference, the following steps will be taken.

1. If the tied clubs are from the same division, apply division tie breaker.

2. If the tied clubs are from different divisions, apply the following steps.

Two Clubs

1. Head-to-head, if applicable.

2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.

3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.

4. Strength of victory.

5. Strength of schedule.

6. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.

7. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.

8. Best net points in conference games.

9. Best net points in all games.

10. Best net touchdowns in all games.

11. Coin toss.

Three or More Clubs

(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)

1. Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two Wild-Card participants.

2. Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)

3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.

4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.

5. Strength of victory.

6. Strength of schedule.

7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.

8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.

9. Best net points in conference games.

10. Best net points in all games.

11. Best net touchdowns in all games.

12. Coin toss

When the first Wild-Card team has been identified, the procedure is repeated to name the second Wild-Card, i.e., eliminate all but the highest-ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. In situations where three or more teams from the same division are involved in the procedure, the original seeding of the teams remains the same for subsequent applications of the tie breaker if the top-ranked team in that division qualifies for a Wild-Card berth.

OTHER TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURES

1. Only one club advances to the playoffs in any tie-breaking step. Remaining tied clubs revert to the first step of the applicable division or Wild-Card tie breakers. As an example, if two clubs remain tied in any tie-breaker step after all other clubs have been eliminated, the procedure reverts to step one of the two-club format to determine the winner. When one club wins the tie breaker, all other clubs revert to step 1 of the applicable two-club or three-club format.

2. In comparing division and conference records or records against common opponents among tied teams, the best won-lost-tied percentage is the deciding factor since teams may have played an unequal number of games.

3. To determine home-field priority among division titlists, apply Wild-Card tie breakers.

4. To determine home-field priority for Wild-Card qualifiers, apply division tie breakers (if teams are from the same division) or Wild-Card tie breakers (if teams are from different ivisions).

TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURE FOR SELECTION MEETING

If two or more clubs are tied in the selection order, the strength-of-schedule tie breaker is applied, subject to the following exceptions for playoff clubs:

1. The Super Bowl winner is last and the Super Bowl loser next-to-last.

2. Any non-Super Bowl playoff club involved in a tie shall be assigned priority within its segment below that of non-playoff clubs and in the order that the playoff clubs exited from the playoffs. Thus, within a tied segment a playoff club that loses in the Wild-Card game will have priority over a playoff club that loses in the Divisional playoff game, which in turn will have priority over a club that loses in the Conference Championship game. If two tied clubs exited the playoffs in the same round, the tie is broken by strength of schedule.

If any ties cannot be broken by strength of schedule, the divisional or conference tie breakers, whichever are applicable, are applied. Any ties that still exist are broken by a coin flip.

Scoreboard

Standings

Stats

 
Look back to 2002 NFL Standings. Atlanta finished with a record of 9-6-1 and had a win% of 59.4% which is equal to 9.5/16

 
Yes, I know the answer. These are the same record.
Not to be a you know what, but if you know the answer then why are you asking. Both teams have a winning percenage of .500. Therefore you must go to whatever tie breaking rules that are written for your league. Next year you can make the first tie breaker be # of wins giving the 7-7 team the first tie breaker. You can't do that (fairly) for this season unless it is already written. Sorry for the 7-7 team, that sucks, but it is what it is.
 
Tell the 7-7-0 guy that his record is actually worse since he has more loses. Maybe that will put it in perspective for him on why its even.

 
Yes, I know the answer. These are the same record. In my main league, the team with the lesser tie breaker (division record) is claiming he should make the playoffs based on the better season record. He is claiming the 7-7 is a better record than 6-6-2. He is being nice about it (good guy), but can someone provide some support to help me here? I'm sure the NFL counts a tie as 1/2 win and 1/2 loss, but I'm having trouble substanting that argument.78.3% of the people on this Board are smarter than me, so I am requesting help.
It's a tie. Go to your tie breaker rules. Doesn't matter if he's a nice guy or not, he's wrong.
 
Yes, I know the answer. These are the same record.
Not to be a you know what, but if you know the answer then why are you asking. Both teams have a winning percenage of .500. Therefore you must go to whatever tie breaking rules that are written for your league. Next year you can make the first tie breaker be # of wins giving the 7-7 team the first tie breaker. You can't do that (fairly) for this season unless it is already written. Sorry for the 7-7 team, that sucks, but it is what it is.
:goodposting: Since both teams have the same winning percentage, your currently defined tie breaking rules should apply. Next year you can make the first tiebreaker number of wins and then resort to whatever you have today. But this year? Too bad, so sad.
 
Thanks to Quiz Guy. In fairness, I made a mistake by claiming "that's how the NFL does it" without having the documentation prepared. I think that fanned the flames. Now I have exactly what I need. That is why this Board is great.

By the way, the guy has now conceded and apologized before I even responded. All is good. It's nice to be in leagues with good people.

 
Thanks to Quiz Guy. In fairness, I made a mistake by claiming "that's how the NFL does it" without having the documentation prepared. I think that fanned the flames. Now I have exactly what I need. That is why this Board is great.By the way, the guy has now conceded and apologized before I even responded. All is good. It's nice to be in leagues with good people.
Of course the easiest solution is, no ties during the year. Have a weekly tie breaker for individual games. Then you have no 6-6-2 records.
 
Tell the 6-6-2 guy he's too much of a waffler to get to be in the playoffs in your league...

2 ties :useless:

He can't decide if he wants to win or lose...

 
Tell the 6-6-2 guy he's too much of a waffler to get to be in the playoffs in your league...

2 ties :thumbup:

He can't decide if he wants to win or lose...
But make sure he understands what you are saying. You don't want him to walk away thinking you just offered to take him to IHOP for waffles. That could make things uncomfortable when you don't deliver.
 
This is why a good commish has all the tiebreakers set up for the end of the season and their is no issue.

Kissing your sister twice in one season, nice job by that team.

 
Had their records been 8-4-2 and 9-5, then you could have a legit debate over which record was better (in the NFL, the 2 teams would be tied; in other systems, the 8-4-2 team would have a better record).

 
Had their records been 8-4-2 and 9-5, then you could have a legit debate over which record was better (in the NFL, the 2 teams would be tied; in other systems, the 8-4-2 team would have a better record).
How would 8-4-2 be the better record in "other systems" over a 9-5 record?
 
2 ties by the same team in one season?

Decimal scoring down?

My league had one tie in our first season, and then we've gone to decimal scoring ever since.

Seriously...do you still get all your stats done by hand with the USA Today from the next day?

 
Had their records been 8-4-2 and 9-5, then you could have a legit debate over which record was better (in the NFL, the 2 teams would be tied; in other systems, the 8-4-2 team would have a better record).
How would 8-4-2 be the better record in "other systems" over a 9-5 record?
Some scoring systems would declare the ties to be null, so 8-4 > 9-5.
Which ones?
Stupid ones.
 
2 ties by the same team in one season?

Decimal scoring down?

My league had one tie in our first season, and then we've gone to decimal scoring ever since.

Seriously...do you still get all your stats done by hand with the USA Today from the next day?
:fishing: 99 yards > 90 yards and should be rewarded as such. Even worse, if you are 20 yards per point league, 99 and 80 yards would both give you 4 points! Ridiculous. I despise whole point leagues.
 
2 ties by the same team in one season?

Decimal scoring down?

My league had one tie in our first season, and then we've gone to decimal scoring ever since.

Seriously...do you still get all your stats done by hand with the USA Today from the next day?
:shrug: We certainly started the league that way in 1992 (hand figuring scores). I remember it well. Actually, I kind of like ties in the regular season. It throws a monkey wrench in the standings.

 
Had their records been 8-4-2 and 9-5, then you could have a legit debate over which record was better (in the NFL, the 2 teams would be tied; in other systems, the 8-4-2 team would have a better record).
How would 8-4-2 be the better record in "other systems" over a 9-5 record?
Some scoring systems would declare the ties to be null, so 8-4 > 9-5.
Which ones?
Stupid ones.
The NFL prior to 1972?
 
Had their records been 8-4-2 and 9-5, then you could have a legit debate over which record was better (in the NFL, the 2 teams would be tied; in other systems, the 8-4-2 team would have a better record).
How would 8-4-2 be the better record in "other systems" over a 9-5 record?
Some scoring systems would declare the ties to be null, so 8-4 > 9-5.
Which ones?
Stupid ones.
The NFL prior to 1972?
Yes, the NFL's system prior to 1972 was stupid. Unless you think 1-0-15 is better than 15-1-0.
 
If you don't have tie breaker rules this year, see if those 2 guys played head to head. If so then flip a coin on the following:

winner of head to head goes to playoffs

owner with most season pts goes to playoffs

Since there is no rule in place you'll just leave it to dumb luck (coin toss) but will be based on some tangible method for determining a tie breaker at least.

 
Before decimal scoring, we used overall record winning percentage (Win%) to break ties. This was deliberatly done to make one win better than two ties.

Win% = (# wins) / (total games played)

Therefore 7 wins, 7 losses = 7/14 = 0.500

Therefore 6 wins, 6 losses, 2 ties = 6/14 = 0.429

 
Before decimal scoring, we used overall record winning percentage (Win%) to break ties. This was deliberatly done to make one win better than two ties.Win% = (# wins) / (total games played)Therefore 7 wins, 7 losses = 7/14 = 0.500Therefore 6 wins, 6 losses, 2 ties = 6/14 = 0.429
But the winning percentage of 6-6-2 is .500, not .429. Unless you're saying a tie equals a loss for both teams.
 
Before decimal scoring, we used overall record winning percentage (Win%) to break ties. This was deliberatly done to make one win better than two ties.Win% = (# wins) / (total games played)Therefore 7 wins, 7 losses = 7/14 = 0.500Therefore 6 wins, 6 losses, 2 ties = 6/14 = 0.429
So, in your world, 6-6-2 is worse than 6-7. :lmao:
 
Before decimal scoring, we used overall record winning percentage (Win%) to break ties. This was deliberatly done to make one win better than two ties.Win% = (# wins) / (total games played)Therefore 7 wins, 7 losses = 7/14 = 0.500Therefore 6 wins, 6 losses, 2 ties = 6/14 = 0.429
Wow, I can't even begin to tell you how bad that is from both a mathematical and logical perspective.
 
Had their records been 8-4-2 and 9-5, then you could have a legit debate over which record was better (in the NFL, the 2 teams would be tied; in other systems, the 8-4-2 team would have a better record).
How would 8-4-2 be the better record in "other systems" over a 9-5 record?
Some scoring systems would declare the ties to be null, so 8-4 > 9-5.
Which ones?
Stupid ones.
The NFL prior to 1972?
Yes, the NFL's system prior to 1972 was stupid. Unless you think 1-0-15 is better than 15-1-0.
Hell Yeah!That first team went undefeated!
 
To get the "winning percentage" for ANY team - you do the following math:

Team A - 8-4-2

Team B - 9-5-0

Both teams played 14 games

1. Divide wins by total games played (A: 8/14 = .571; B: 9/14 = .643)

2. Divide non-losses by total games played (A: 10/14 = .714; B: 9/14 = .643)

3. Add the two numbers together and divide by 2 (A = .643 B = .643)

This formula is the ONLY way to determine winning percentage. You cannot simply ignore the ties.

 

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