Biggest NFL HOF Snub (1 Viewer)

[Despyzer]

Don Coryell

St. Louis Cardinals:

Three years before Coryell: 8-5-1, 4-9-1, 4-9-1

With Coryell (1973-77): 4-9-1, 10-4-1, 11-3, 10-4, 7-7 (two division titles)

Three years after Coryell: 6-10, 5-11, 5-11

San Diego Chargers:

Three years before Coryell: 2-12, 6-8, 7-7

With Coryell (1978-1986): 9-7, 12-4, 11-5, 6-3, 6-10, 7-9, 8-8, 4-12 (three division titles)

Three years after Coryell: 8-7 (scrubs year), 6-10, 6-10

Notables on his coaching tree:

John Madden

Joe Gibbs

Bill Walsh

An offensive visionary - developed the timing route which led to the West Coast offense.

 

[Eviloutsider]

Was he a great coach, yes.

Was he the best coach, no.

Was Guy a great punter, yes.

Was he the best, yes.

Biggest Snub=Guy

 

[Chase Stuart]

Don Coryell

St. Louis Cardinals:

Three years before Coryell: 8-5-1, 4-9-1, 4-9-1

With Coryell (1973-77): 4-9-1, 10-4-1, 11-3, 10-4, 7-7 (two division titles)

Three years after Coryell: 6-10, 5-11, 5-11

San Diego Chargers:

Three years before Coryell: 2-12, 6-8, 7-7

With Coryell (1978-1986): 9-7, 12-4, 11-5, 6-3, 6-10, 7-9, 8-8, 4-12 (three division titles)

Three years after Coryell: 8-7 (scrubs year), 6-10, 6-10

Notables on his coaching tree:

John Madden

Joe Gibbs

Bill Walsh

An offensive visionary - developed the timing route which led to the West Coast offense.

As a HC, his record was 28 games over .500. That's good, but hardly incredible. His 3-6 playoff record isn't doing him any favors, either.

 

[Despyzer]

As a HC, his record was 28 games over .500. That's good, but hardly incredible. His 3-6 playoff record isn't doing him any favors, either.

But look at the horrible franchises he had to work with! That HAS to count for something. Can you name another coach that led the hapless to Cardinals to back-to-back division titles? Or the way-below-average Chargers to three consecutive division titles?

 

[DPRugby]

Was he a great coach, yes.Was he the best coach, no.Was Guy a great punter, yes.Was he the best, yes.Biggest Snub=Guy

And I'm a Charger homer.Don couldn't coach defense to save his life. Had San Diego had a D back in the early 80s they would have won a few SBs.

 

[Phurfur]

As a HC, his record was 28 games over .500. That's good, but hardly incredible. His 3-6 playoff record isn't doing him any favors, either.

But look at the horrible franchises he had to work with! That HAS to count for something. Can you name another coach that led the hapless to Cardinals to back-to-back division titles? Or the way-below-average Chargers to three consecutive division titles?

I didn't know this, I just looked it up. Look at the horrible franchise Lombardi started with.Vince Lombardi took over the Packers in 1959 after a 1-10-1 season. The team hadn't had a winning season in 11 years.1959 - the team goes 7-51960 - the team goes 8-4 and claimed the Western Title. Lost the Championship game to Philly 17-131961 - the team goes 11-3 and wins the western title. They beat the Giants 37-0 in the championship gameThey would go on to win 5 Championships in 6 years. Now that is a HOF coach.

 

[Despyzer]

I didn't know this, I just looked it up. Look at the horrible franchise Lombardi started with.Vince Lombardi took over the Packers in 1959 after a 1-10-1 season. The team hadn't had a winning season in 11 years.1959 - the team goes 7-51960 - the team goes 8-4 and claimed the Western Title. Lost the Championship game to Philly 17-131961 - the team goes 11-3 and wins the western title. They beat the Giants 37-0 in the championship gameThey would go on to win 5 Championships in 6 years. Now that is a HOF coach.

Are you saying that Coryell isn't worthy of the hall because of Lombardi's accomplishments? How many franchises did Lombardi do that with?

 

[Phurfur]

I didn't know this, I just looked it up. Look at the horrible franchise Lombardi started with.Vince Lombardi took over the Packers in 1959 after a 1-10-1 season. The team hadn't had a winning season in 11 years.1959 - the team goes 7-51960 - the team goes 8-4 and claimed the Western Title. Lost the Championship game to Philly 17-131961 - the team goes 11-3 and wins the western title. They beat the Giants 37-0 in the championship gameThey would go on to win 5 Championships in 6 years. Now that is a HOF coach.

Are you saying that Coryell isn't worthy of the hall because of Lombardi's accomplishments? How many franchises did Lombardi do that with?

No not at all. I was just pointing out that most coaches start with bad franchises that is why they are hired. When I saw Lombardi's record I thought it was really remarkable.I do feel it is too easy to get into the HOF and thus diminishes its value but with HOF standards of today Coryell deservers to be in. He was an innovator and helped change the game to what we have today.

 

[Despyzer]

I was just pointing out that most coaches start with bad franchises that is why they are hired. When I saw Lombardi's record I thought it was really remarkable.

I agree with you completely about Lombardi's accomplishments. Very remarkable.I have a little quibble about your other remark though. I think most coaches start off with bad teams, but not necessarily bad franchises. How many truly bad franchises are there? The Cardinals have to be near the top of that list... and the Chargers aren't all that far behind.

 

[mr. furley]

I didn't know this, I just looked it up. Look at the horrible franchise Lombardi started with.Vince Lombardi took over the Packers in 1959 after a 1-10-1 season. The team hadn't had a winning season in 11 years.1959 - the team goes 7-51960 - the team goes 8-4 and claimed the Western Title. Lost the Championship game to Philly 17-131961 - the team goes 11-3 and wins the western title. They beat the Giants 37-0 in the championship gameThey would go on to win 5 Championships in 6 years. Now that is a HOF coach.

Are you saying that Coryell isn't worthy of the hall because of Lombardi's accomplishments? How many franchises did Lombardi do that with?

in fairness to Vince he did only coach one season with the Redskins and then he died. there is that.

 

[David Yudkin]

I haven't figured out why Ken Stabler isn't in. The record for the teams he played for once he became a starter was 104-54-1 (.657). He led the Raiders to a SB victory and in 11 years as a starter only had one losing season (two if you count the strike season). He did throw quite a few interceptions but his teams made the playoffs 7 times. He also ranked in the Top 10 in passing yards and passing TD 7 times in each category.

 

[Despyzer]

in fairness to Vince he did only coach one season with the Redskins and then he died. there is that.

Excuses, excuses...

 

[Chase Stuart]

I haven't figured out why Ken Stabler isn't in. The record for the teams he played for once he became a starter was 104-54-1 (.657). He led the Raiders to a SB victory and in 11 years as a starter only had one losing season (two if you count the strike season). He did throw quite a few interceptions but his teams made the playoffs 7 times. He also ranked in the Top 10 in passing yards and passing TD 7 times in each category.

Stabler should not get in before Ken Anderson.He had 28 more INTs than TDs, and only had two terrific years, '74 and '76.Here's how my AY/A system scores his career:

1970	-271971	-1191972	701973	4931974	7891975	21976	8261977	2091978	-1491979	2971980	-3861981	-2541982	-811983	-4851984	-267

Now '74 and '76 were without a doubt remarkable years. '73 was very good too, but that's it. And he had some awful years at the end of his career.

 

[Buttmonkey]

How about the Hall of Shame:

Rae Carruth, Ryan Leaf, Bosworth, that linebacker for Green Bay that slammed Jim McMahan into the ground about 4 minutes after the play was over, and who can leave off Lawrence Phillips

 

[stevegamer]

It's not a QB, that's for sure.

I liked Ken Anderson a lot - he's not a Hall of Famer, and neither is Stabler. Anderson reminds me of Dave Krieg: solid numbers without any significant success.

As for Stabler, record as starter isn't all it's cracked up to be, see the Bears for recent examples. Their was a ton of elite talent on those teams, and Stabler was the fortunate guy who got to play QB. Good, sometimes very good, but not great.

 

[Chase Stuart]

It's not a QB, that's for sure.I liked Ken Anderson a lot - he's not a Hall of Famer, and neither is Stabler. Anderson reminds me of Dave Krieg: solid numbers without any significant success.

Anderson >>>> KriegAnderson had a lot of significant success, I'm not sure where you're going with that.

 

[massraider]

THe best player on those Raider teams still not in the Hall is Jack Tatum. And that includes Cliff Branch.

 

[stevegamer]

It's not a QB, that's for sure.I liked Ken Anderson a lot - he's not a Hall of Famer, and neither is Stabler. Anderson reminds me of Dave Krieg: solid numbers without any significant success.

Anderson >>>> KriegAnderson had a lot of significant success, I'm not sure where you're going with that.

One SB appearance, no rings. More than Krieg, but still not enough sizzle to make it as a QB - the positon where you need either great numbers (Moon, Marino), rings (Aikman, Bradshaw), or being close to rings with really good numbers: (Kelly, Tarkenton).Krieg had some pretty decent stats when he retired. So did Testaverde. Anderson's better than both of them, but he isn't going to be enshrined in the HoF.

 

[stevegamer]

THe best player on those Raider teams still not in the Hall is Jack Tatum. And that includes Cliff Branch.

I think it's Guy, and then Tatum/Branch in some combo based on how ell the outperformed their peers. I agree Tatum & Branch had more game effect, though.

 

[massraider]

THe best player on those Raider teams still not in the Hall is Jack Tatum. And that includes Cliff Branch.

I think it's Guy, and then Tatum/Branch in some combo based on how ell the outperformed their peers. I agree Tatum & Branch had more game effect, though.

My attitude is if a Jan Stenerud or Vinitiari are going to get in, then Guy should, sure. But I can't get too fired up about it. Leaving aside the kicking argument, the fact that Tatum isn't even considered is absurd.

 

[redman]

He's not the only one like this, but LB Chris Hanburger went to nine (yes, 9) Pro Bowls and was considered one of the best LB's of his era. They outlawed the clothesline tackle because of how violently he did it. Despite that, he's never been nominated.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I was thinking Steve Tasker.....

 

[Despyzer]

I was thinking Steve Tasker.....

You and his mother both.

 

[Workhorse]

Gino Cappelletti.

 

[softball]

I haven't figured out why Ken Stabler isn't in. The record for the teams he played for once he became a starter was 104-54-1 (.657). He led the Raiders to a SB victory and in 11 years as a starter only had one losing season (two if you count the strike season). He did throw quite a few interceptions but his teams made the playoffs 7 times. He also ranked in the Top 10 in passing yards and passing TD 7 times in each category.

Bingo!I am a Giants fan, but always use Stabler as the example of why Phil Simms is NOT a HOFr, his numbers aren't nearly as good and they each have 1 SB victory

 

[MarshallRob]

1) Don Coryell's offenses were nothing like the West Coast Offense. Here's a good article on the differences. In addition to Coryell's record he might deserve some credit as an innovator.

2) Here's a recent FBG thread on the possible reasons Stabler is not in the Hall of Fame. Someone posted an interesting book excerpt concerning Stabler's work ethic. Basically he was the anti-Peyton Manning.

3) Here's a recent FBG thread on Ray Guy and the Hall of Fame. Doug Drinen posted some numbers showing Guy was not a particularly dominant punter.

4) Lester Hayes was better than Jack Tatum.

 

[The Ref]

Andre Tippett.

--He was drafted by the New England Patriots in the 1st round of the 1982 draft.

--Tippett is a member of the NFL’s 1980s all-decade team. The five other linebackers on the team are already in the Hall of Fame (Lawrence Taylor, Mike Singletary, Harry Carson, Ted Hendricks and Jack Lambert.)

--Tippett was selected to five Pro Bowls in his career, earning the nod in five straight seasons from 1984-88.

--From 1984-85, Tippett recorded the highest two-season sack total by a linebacker in NFL history, totaling 35.0 sacks during the two seasons. His 18.5 sacks in 1984 are the third most by any linebacker in a single season, while his 16.5 sacks in 1985 are tied for the sixth most by any linebacker in NFL history. He achieved the feat despite playing primarily on the strong side, lining up opposite of a tight end, in an era where most successful pass-rushers lined up on the weak side.

--Tippett ranked seventh on the all-time sacks list at the time of his retirement following the 1993 season.

--Tippett ranked third among linebackers on the all-time sacks list at the time of his retirement following the 1993 season.

--Over his career, Tippett recorded 100 sacks in 151 games, an average of 0.662 sacks per game. The mark currently ranks fourth in NFL history among linebackers.

--Tippett was named the NFL’s linebacker of the year by the NFL Players Association for three straight seasons from 1985-87. He was also named to the Associated Press All-NFL First Team on two occasions (1985, 1987).

--Tippett holds the Patriots’ franchise record with 100.0 career sacks. He also owns the top three single-season sack performances in Patriots history (18.5 in 1984, 16.5 in 1985 and 12.5 in 1987).

--Tippett recovered 17 opponents’ fumbles during his career, tying him for first on the Patriots’ all-time list (Steve Nelson). He also forced 14 fumbles in his career.

--Tippett spent his entire 11-year career with the Patriots and was a member of three playoff teams, including the 1985 AFC Champions.

--Tippett was selected to the Patriots’ 35th Anniversary Team in 1994 and was selected to the Patriots Team of the Century in 2000.

--After not recording a sack as a rookie in 1982, Tippett finished either first or second on the team in sacks in each of his final 10 seasons. He led the team in sacks six times and finished second on the team four times.

--Tippett recorded 30 multiple-sack games in his career and sacked a total of 37 different quarterbacks

 

[Eviloutsider]

Jerry Kramer?

 

[My_Favorite_Team_is]

Gino Cappelletti.

Andre Tippett. --He was drafted by the New England Patriots in the 1st round of the 1982 draft.--Tippett is a member of the NFL’s 1980s all-decade team. The five other linebackers on the team are already in the Hall of Fame (Lawrence Taylor, Mike Singletary, Harry Carson, Ted Hendricks and Jack Lambert.)--Tippett was selected to five Pro Bowls in his career, earning the nod in five straight seasons from 1984-88.--From 1984-85, Tippett recorded the highest two-season sack total by a linebacker in NFL history, totaling 35.0 sacks during the two seasons. His 18.5 sacks in 1984 are the third most by any linebacker in a single season, while his 16.5 sacks in 1985 are tied for the sixth most by any linebacker in NFL history. He achieved the feat despite playing primarily on the strong side, lining up opposite of a tight end, in an era where most successful pass-rushers lined up on the weak side.--Tippett ranked seventh on the all-time sacks list at the time of his retirement following the 1993 season.--Tippett ranked third among linebackers on the all-time sacks list at the time of his retirement following the 1993 season.--Over his career, Tippett recorded 100 sacks in 151 games, an average of 0.662 sacks per game. The mark currently ranks fourth in NFL history among linebackers.--Tippett was named the NFL’s linebacker of the year by the NFL Players Association for three straight seasons from 1985-87. He was also named to the Associated Press All-NFL First Team on two occasions (1985, 1987).--Tippett holds the Patriots’ franchise record with 100.0 career sacks. He also owns the top three single-season sack performances in Patriots history (18.5 in 1984, 16.5 in 1985 and 12.5 in 1987).--Tippett recovered 17 opponents’ fumbles during his career, tying him for first on the Patriots’ all-time list (Steve Nelson). He also forced 14 fumbles in his career.--Tippett spent his entire 11-year career with the Patriots and was a member of three playoff teams, including the 1985 AFC Champions.--Tippett was selected to the Patriots’ 35th Anniversary Team in 1994 and was selected to the Patriots Team of the Century in 2000.--After not recording a sack as a rookie in 1982, Tippett finished either first or second on the team in sacks in each of his final 10 seasons. He led the team in sacks six times and finished second on the team four times.--Tippett recorded 30 multiple-sack games in his career and sacked a total of 37 different quarterbacks

 

[massraider]

4) Lester Hayes was better than Jack Tatum.

You are high.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I was thinking Steve Tasker.....

You and his mother both.

There might be a couple of more people thinking about him. Dr. Z mentioned him last season and I believe that Peter King did as well. Both are on the committee. :(

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Who lead the Packer Sweep?

Who won 5 Chamionships?

Who, along with Ken Bowmen, lead Starr into the endzone in the Icebowl?

Who carried Lombardi, in respect from the field of glory and who laid him to rest?

Who wrote two best sellers about the game?

Who has handfulls of awards and all time team honors?

Who continues to honor his sport by working to benefit the oldtimers of the game who have fallen on hard times?

The very story of the NFL can not be told without the man.