Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Brandon Lloyd Officially Traded to the Rams (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dgr81
- Start date
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I don't think he's done at 30 - just that he's only had one good season and he's 30 - and they'll need to offer him a big contract at 30 when they could just do so at the end of the year anyway. And if they missed out they could always sign some one else. It isn't like Llyodd's a sure bet to succeed after one good season out of 8.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Lloyd for a 6th rounder seems like a fair deal for the Rams.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
Bump Willis for Denver IMO. Tebow was used to working with him on the 2nd team reps. Thomas has not shown he can remain healthy for this team.
We're all trying to look into the crystal ball here. But I need to point out that you are wrong about Lloyd this year. Brandon Lloyd has dropped ONE pass in 32 targets in 2011. That merit alone gives him a free pass to be the Rams WR1 this year.
Why do you keep saying this? Don't you think that whichever team were to trade for Lloyd was going to be doing so only if they were able to lock him up to a contract past this year? There aren't many GM's in the league that are going to part with a draft pick for a 3 month rental of a player. So no, it's likely the Rams wouldn't have been able to sign him this offseason if they hadn't of parted with a 5th or 6th round pick for him.
Honestly, I think your assessment would be true to the other 30 teams not named STL or DEN...but considering he is going to the team of the guy who made him a star, at this point, he still holds a good deal of value. The reason I think lloyd has a chance is that he is better than the crew they are working with in STL currently. The only one with a previous track record is MSW and he was jettisoned from the Jags (of all teams) and waited a while to get signed this offseason. The rest are guys who we will not even remember being alive in five years...this STL WR crew reminds me of the early 2000s Bears receivers before Robinson stood up...potential with guys like Dez White and Macey Brooks, but 0 results.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
I'm not sure if this is fishing shtick or if you're always so misinformed.Brandon Lloyd has 1 drop this season. How is that "Too many drops..."? The Rams receivers lead the league in dropped passes. And they've already had their bye week.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He hasn't been locked up for a long term deal yet - so no that wasn't a stipulation to a trade. A contender may trade a 5th or 6th for a rental. Nevertheless, I guess my main point was that they could have signed him if he was available since he's a free agent. If not they could sign another free agent instead. I guess it depends on just how good one thinks Llyod is. Personally I'm not a big believer - last season just seemed like a perfect storm. I'm not syaing he has no talent. I just think there would be other equal options available to them.With that said, this deal wasn't all that bad b/c of the lateness of the pick.
Taking this point by point to refute the idiocy:
He wasn't bad at all playing for SF early in his career. "Bombing" is not 48/733/5.
Some subjectivity here, but Lloyd is more talnted than all of St Louis' current WRs. The only one I think has decent talent is Alexander and he has zero good knees.As for McDaniels not opening it up, Bradford is averaging 39 passes a game. Last year, through 13 games (excluding bye week + tebow stars in which he didn't play), Kyle Orton averaged 38 passes a game. So... no clue what you're talking about there
He's had one okay game, one good game and two bad games. I think the struggles of the Denver offense, Orton, and the lack of McDaniels have not helped things. All of that points to him moving to a better situation.Lloyd already has familiarity with McDaniels' offense, so the idea that it will "take him time to learn a new playbook" is pretty foolish.
Really?? Useless? Come here and eat crow soon please.
footballnerd
Footballguy
And hes going back to that offense he had so much success in last year
Last edited by a moderator:
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
What did the Rams give up to get Lloyd ?
I may have missed it.
I may have missed it.
bonesman
Footballguy
6th5th if Lloyd catches 30.
I was about to trade him, but glad I held.Top 15 WR moving forward.
KentGraham10
Footballguy
Tell me where I'm wrong about Lloyd:
1. He's going back to Josh McDaniels and the offense he put up his career year. Is it not the same offense? Watching the Rams this year, it's hard to tell since they've done so bad in the games I've watched, but you've got to think he's in a better situation with the Rams than he is with the Broncos.
2. When Sam Bradford locks onto a guy, he can make them produce. Wasn't Mark Clayton off to a hot start with Bradford last year? Isn't Lloyd at least a LITTLE better than Clayton in terms of talent? Lloyd is THE GUY for Bradford at this point, and you've got to think he will at least produce similar to Clayton (22 receptions, 300 yards, 2td in the first 4 games -> 88 receptions 1200 yards 8td over 16 games). EDIT: Forgot to throw in 85 reception PPR machine Amendola.
3. Brandon Lloyd's 2 bad games this year were against top 5 pass defenses. Against two mediocre defenses, Lloyd had 22 targets, 14 catches, 225 yards. The Browns (week 10), the Bengals (week 15) and the Steelers (week 16) are the only top 12 pass defenses he faces going forward, so isn't it logical to assume he will mimic closer to his 14 reception 225 yard, 2 game performance against mediocre pass defenses or closer to his performance against top 5 pass defenses?
The only con I see with Lloyd is his playoff schedule. Otherwise, I am on board the Brandon Lloyd train to St. Louis.
1. He's going back to Josh McDaniels and the offense he put up his career year. Is it not the same offense? Watching the Rams this year, it's hard to tell since they've done so bad in the games I've watched, but you've got to think he's in a better situation with the Rams than he is with the Broncos.
2. When Sam Bradford locks onto a guy, he can make them produce. Wasn't Mark Clayton off to a hot start with Bradford last year? Isn't Lloyd at least a LITTLE better than Clayton in terms of talent? Lloyd is THE GUY for Bradford at this point, and you've got to think he will at least produce similar to Clayton (22 receptions, 300 yards, 2td in the first 4 games -> 88 receptions 1200 yards 8td over 16 games). EDIT: Forgot to throw in 85 reception PPR machine Amendola.
3. Brandon Lloyd's 2 bad games this year were against top 5 pass defenses. Against two mediocre defenses, Lloyd had 22 targets, 14 catches, 225 yards. The Browns (week 10), the Bengals (week 15) and the Steelers (week 16) are the only top 12 pass defenses he faces going forward, so isn't it logical to assume he will mimic closer to his 14 reception 225 yard, 2 game performance against mediocre pass defenses or closer to his performance against top 5 pass defenses?
The only con I see with Lloyd is his playoff schedule. Otherwise, I am on board the Brandon Lloyd train to St. Louis.
Last edited by a moderator:
I'll preface this by saying I don't have the link... so don't ask.
I read a story earlier this year about Lloyd, and how he had sort of an awakening, or epiphany if you will, late in the 09 season, where he really looked at himself and wondered whether he was giving his best to be a good football player. One of those deals where the light finally goes on for a guy, and he realizes he isn't doing all he can to maximize his talent. The story talked about how he started thinking about what he would do after football, because he has some business interests outside of football, and he realized that he wanted to do more in football first, due to the limited time to get it done.
Lloyd was considered a bust because everyone saw the talent was there. 2010 might have been a perfect storm, but it was for more than the coach and the QB. Lloyd himself changed, and was a monster due to it.
Long story short, don't disregard Lloyd because he had 1 great season late in his career. The guy is talented, the system he is going back to now favors him, and if he and Bradford can get any kind of rapport, this could be a productive couple years for Lloyd (assuming the lock him up for a couple years).
I read a story earlier this year about Lloyd, and how he had sort of an awakening, or epiphany if you will, late in the 09 season, where he really looked at himself and wondered whether he was giving his best to be a good football player. One of those deals where the light finally goes on for a guy, and he realizes he isn't doing all he can to maximize his talent. The story talked about how he started thinking about what he would do after football, because he has some business interests outside of football, and he realized that he wanted to do more in football first, due to the limited time to get it done.
Lloyd was considered a bust because everyone saw the talent was there. 2010 might have been a perfect storm, but it was for more than the coach and the QB. Lloyd himself changed, and was a monster due to it.
Long story short, don't disregard Lloyd because he had 1 great season late in his career. The guy is talented, the system he is going back to now favors him, and if he and Bradford can get any kind of rapport, this could be a productive couple years for Lloyd (assuming the lock him up for a couple years).
Shutout
Footballguy
You apparently don't play fantasy football
Reggie Wayne is arguably the most consistently productive WR there has been in the last decade and because he is 32 he has been all but cremated and his ashes spread out to sea. People just have in their mind that after 30, the invisible wall is lurking somewhere.
Young 8
Footballguy
McDonald's
Shutout
Footballguy
Apparently John elway plays fantasy football. He just sold high on a 30 year old WR that he did not have under contract that has had one good year and in the process all but secured that his team will be squarely in the hunt for Andrew Luck.
I see what you did there Mr. Elway.
As far as people going gaga over Lloyd; I would temper those expectations. If nothing else, Bradford has not been able to stay upright this year and has taken a lot of hits and sacks. Asking him to stand in the pocket even longer for those perceived bombs to Lloyd is just another stressor.
I see what you did there Mr. Elway.
As far as people going gaga over Lloyd; I would temper those expectations. If nothing else, Bradford has not been able to stay upright this year and has taken a lot of hits and sacks. Asking him to stand in the pocket even longer for those perceived bombs to Lloyd is just another stressor.
Today seems like a day full of soap operas. My emotions are all being played. Lloyd may not be a good start in week 7 if AJ Feely is the QB. Bradford has a high ankle sprain!!!
"At his Monday press conference, Rams coach Steve Spagnuolo described Sam Bradford's lower-left leg injury as a "high ankle sprain."
Spagnuolo called Bradford "day to day," which isn't usually the way high ankle sprains are described. Spags did confirm that A.J. Feeley would get the first-team reps at Wednesday's practice. Bradford is in a walking boot, and his status for Week 7 against the Cowboys is in doubt. This takes some of the life out of newly acquired receiver Brandon Lloyd's appeal in fantasy leagues."
"At his Monday press conference, Rams coach Steve Spagnuolo described Sam Bradford's lower-left leg injury as a "high ankle sprain."
Spagnuolo called Bradford "day to day," which isn't usually the way high ankle sprains are described. Spags did confirm that A.J. Feeley would get the first-team reps at Wednesday's practice. Bradford is in a walking boot, and his status for Week 7 against the Cowboys is in doubt. This takes some of the life out of newly acquired receiver Brandon Lloyd's appeal in fantasy leagues."
bulger2holt
Footballguy
Sounds like LT Saffold has a pretty serious ankly injury. They are moving RT Jason Smith to LT and Goldberg to RT. ouch. I wouldn't touch Lloyd, Bradford, Clayton or any Rams player with a 10 foot, make that a 20 foot pole. Plus Bradford has a high ankle sprain too.
massraider
Footballguy
Great deal for both.
What's the downgrade here? Jason Smith or Goldberg?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
As an owner of Bradford, Lloyd, Decker, and Demaryus Thomas, I have to say this is about as good of an outcome as I could have hoped for. It somewhat makes up for Bradshaw and DeAngelo resigning with their respective teams.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
I could not be happier... With Bradford, Lloyd could do amazing things. They finally gave me something to root for this year. If Lloyd doesnt bring his anti Tebow anger to STL, I expect this to affect the whole team positively.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
As for all you doubters saying Bradford cant stay upright. If you were an opposing defense scheming against them, how many guys would you put in the box considering there WRs. He literally has nobody to throw to and they know it. In all 5 games I have watched bradford throw darts right to peoples hands and chests, to then see the ball fall harmlessly to the ground. They blitz Bradford because they know he has nobody to throw to. Once he has a consistent target, the entire offensive outlook is going to change. The line is not as bad as people are making it out to be, at least from a talent standpoint. I would not be surprised if you see a big second half turn around.
Last edited by a moderator:
bulger2holt
Footballguy
Best case scenario for the Rams is to win the Luck lotto and resign Lloyd to a 3 yr contract. Then trade Luck for a multitude of picks. Just write this year off. Too many injuries and too brutal of a first half schedule. The key is to let Sam mature and start planning for next year. They have talent and a multi billion dollar owner. This is just not their year.
Last edited by a moderator:
bulger2holt
Footballguy
They might be more competitive in the 2nd half, but with their top 3 CB's done for the year, they won't win many games.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
I think the defense will be better because of the improved offense. You think the defense is beyond repair this year? Seemed like Spags used the bend but dont break defense approach with this team for the most part, considering the lack of talent on the field for them. The bend but dont break defense tends to go out the window when your defense is worn out from being on the field so much. I know you watch the team a lot, what do you think?
Last edited by a moderator:
Football Jones
Footballguy
Dreams do come true, lol. 
3 out of 5
Footballguy
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
Horrible posting.
Assuming they like Lloyd and intend to resign him, you're missing a key point- they have his ear exclusively until the end of the season (barring tampering). They can offer him something now less than they would have to offer him in the offseason as a free agent. Lloyd would be wise to take a reasonable offer due to the risk of an injury (or lousy play) destroying his value, and he cant even reliably measure that value anyway until he is a free agent.
baconisgood
Footballguy
I know Lloyd owners are going nuts about this but there is a big problem in STL and that is the 9.7 sack percentage. A team that takes that many sacks is going to have problems moving the ball and Lloyd won't be in for all those nice redzone targets that he got last year. If STL doesn't fix what ails their o-line/Bradford's decision making there will be a lot of 4/55/0 on 9 targets games for Lloyd.
phillybirds
Footballguy
The Rams offense should probably look much better in the weeks to come.
Now with a healthy Steven Jackson, Clayton coming back, and Lloyd...I think there is reason for optimism if you are a Lloyd owner.
Now with a healthy Steven Jackson, Clayton coming back, and Lloyd...I think there is reason for optimism if you are a Lloyd owner.
phillybirds
Footballguy
I haven't seen much of the Rams this season, outside of week 1...but is it possible that a lot of those sacks are because he had no one to throw to?
baconisgood
Footballguy
Thats a lot of sacks and its on Bradford to throw the ball away rather than take the loss in the right amount of time. 10% is WAY to high- Colt McCoy doesn't exactly have a lot of weapons and has a 3.6% sack rate this year (down from 9.4% last season). You just can't take a sack every 10 plays.
Last edited by a moderator:
baconisgood
Footballguy
BTW Bradford had a 5.7% rate last season with- no one to throw to.
How does throwing the ball away if no-one is open help a WRs stats?
baconisgood
Footballguy
Throwing the ball away means losing a down instead of losing a down + losing 10 yards. 2nd and 10- more likely to get a first down than 2nd and 20. More first downs means more offensive plays and means better starting field position and more scores.
Last edited by a moderator:
phillybirds
Footballguy
Have you seen much of the Rams this season?I haven't so I'm speculating that the high sack percentage has something to do with having no weapons on offense (no Jackson, Amendola, Clayton, Lloyd). I think it seems reasonable to assume that it plays some role. But you're right that it needs to get better. Like I said, I think there is room here for optimism.
Last edited by a moderator:
Assuming those are first down sacks instead of 3rd down sacks trying to make a play to keep a drive alive. Moreover, the early down sacks ensure more passing plays on 2nd or 3rd down anyway. Sacks are often a consequence of playing from behind, and the Rams have been playing from behind.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Bradford and Lloyd might not be the other's savior, but it is a shot worth taking, and the Rams were smart to pull the trigger on this. For one, it finally gives Bradford a legitimate number 1 NFL WR, which he needs. They can't keep having him waste away and getting killed while having no one to throw to. Plus, if they mesh, it gives the Rams the chance to try to sign Lloyd to a long term deal before he reaches free agency. Given the low price tag, this was a no-brainer for the Rams.
phillybirds
Footballguy
I think if people are expecting the numbers he put up in Denver they will be disappointed. I'm just hoping for a solid WR2.
baconisgood
Footballguy
The bolded is just silly. The Rams are 26th in passing yards and last in passing TDs despite being 16th in attempts. Taking sacks hurts total TDs and total yards. To the italics- taking a 10 yard loss is bad on (virtually) ANY down and for at least the first 3/4ths of the game a throw away is preferable to a desperation play.
One
Not Allowed In Mexico
Lloyd/Bradford/McDaniels > Lloyd/Tebow/FoxI don't knwo about a savior of fantasy stats, but it helps Lloyd's value quite a bit. At least he'll be startable.
Football Jones
Footballguy
I don't necessarily think most people view this move as being a savior-type thing. I don't.What I do know is it's a HUGE step in the right direction. Bradford is easily the NFL's best young pure passer (as well as being a good athlete), but every QB needs help to produce. The Rams still need to improve their OL, but with Lloyd, a healthy Clayton/Amendola, & assuming Kendricks can improve, Bradford finally will have the help he needs to put up monster numbers (with better protection).You very well could see Bradford explode in 2012 (in a good way).
Solid #2 would be nice. Lloyds big year reminds me of that guy that had a huge 8 or 9 weeks in 2009 & everyone was saying what a star he would be with a real QB? Who was that guy?Oh yeah, that was MSW.
You're talking about completely differing subjects here. We are talking about how sacks affect WRs, not how they affect a QB or a teams chances of winning. You are claiming a heavily sacked team cant support a WR with good fantasy stats- the data is otherwise. Rodgers and Big Ben were both sacked 50 times in 2009 and threw 30 and 26 TDs respectively. David Carr was the most sacked QB in history, and Andre Johnson did some pretty good things with him. There are a lot of reasons sacks happen- not having a reliable WR is one of them, which would speak well to the potential of a reliable WR brought in. But regardless, a heavily sacked team is usually playing from behind- its a chicken and an egg issue, and teams playing from behind throw the ball a lot, which is obviously good for WRs. This isnt a causation issue, its correlation. Sacks may not help a WR directly (though its possible in some circumstances), but the fact that a QB is being sacked may indicate an offense that will be throwing the ball a lot, which appears to be true in St Louis.
Last edited by a moderator:
