Browns Do Over (1 Viewer)

[Anarchy99]

As an off shoot of the GOAT thread, let’s do the following. 

The Browns went 1-31 over the past two seasons. For this discussion, leave everything exactly the same. Same coaches. Same players. Same schedule. Same set of current rules. 

But for this exercise, you can replace ONE PLAYER on the roster with any player in NFL history. Assume that player is in full health in the prime of his career. Jimmy Garoppolo today or Tom Brady three years from now. Take JIm Brown or Jerry Rice. Johnny Unitas or Joe Montana. Tim Tebow or Lawrence Taylor. 

The challenge is to nominate the player that would give Cleveland the most wins over the past two years and advance the farthest in the post season. 

So you ya got? What would you predict their record would be? Would the Browns make the playoffs and how far would they advance?

Remember, the rest of the team and the coaches stay the same, as do the other teams in the NFL. 

 

[fred_1_15301]

Peyton Manning.  He's coaching proof.

 

[Statorama]

I saw Walter Payton flat out carry a horrible team to the playoffs in 1977.  

His "supporting" cast on offense:

QB - Vince Evans / Bob Avellini

FB - Roland Harper

WR - Brian Baschnagel, James Scott

TE - Robin Earl

I compare the current Browns to that group very favorably.  

 

[Soulfly3]

Any decent QB. And I mean ANY, and the Browns win 6 games this season,easily 

This seems like a thread for ppl who didnt actually watch the browns, but just see 0-16

 

[lsutigers]

Fun!

I nominate Steve Young.  It would almost have to be a mobile QB to lift the offense.  While they haven't had historically bad o-lines or defense, I think with the right QB that they could have won an extra 5-6 games in one of the weaker divisions in the NFL over the timespan with one of the easiest OOC schedules.  Hard to see a single Defensive player making enough impact to lift the team.

 

[dutch]

Dan Marino

 

[petekrum]

Any nomination other than a QB is pretty naive. As soulfly said any great QB and they win a half dozen games. No player puts them in the playoffs the last two years.

 

[bostonfred]

Early in his career Brady played with less talent around him on offense and led the team to titles. He likes wee receivers like Corey Coleman, they've got an emerging stud tight end and a running back that can catch, and he has the winning mentality that the team is missing. 

 

[Godsbrother]

Tim Couch

 

[Cjw_55106]

Any decent QB. And I mean ANY, and the Browns win 6 games this season,easily 

This seems like a thread for ppl who didnt actually watch the browns, but just see 0-16

I'd like to see the list of games they "easily" win with just a decent QB. 

 

[Koya]

Fun!

I nominate Steve Young.  It would almost have to be a mobile QB to lift the offense.  While they haven't had historically bad o-lines or defense, I think with the right QB that they could have won an extra 5-6 games in one of the weaker divisions in the NFL over the timespan with one of the easiest OOC schedules.  Hard to see a single Defensive player making enough impact to lift the team.

I like this. First QB I thought of was Randall Cunningham - hardly as great as those listed in the OP, but his legs could win a couple games on their own - with such a general lack of talent, a pure passer, no matter how great, would still be somewhat limited.

That said, Young brings that aspect to the table along with an awesome passing arm.

If we go pure passers, I'd go Brady - great mobility in the pocket and he has done some tremendous work with pretty crappy receiver cores. 

 

[Statorama]

Any nomination other than a QB is pretty naive. 

I can only report what I saw, and that was Walter Payton being the only offensive weapon on a team that went to the playoffs.  I watched week after week as defenses put 8 in the box to stop the guy and he still ran for 1800 yards.  If you didn't watch the Bears that season my words aren't doing it justice.  Payton was a machine but even he couldn't plow them past the eventual SuperBowl champs (Dallas) in the playoffs.  But he got them there by himself.  It was a wonder to behold.

Is Kizer any worse than Bob Avellini (started all 14 games, 11 TD / 18 INT)

Marino was my second choice.

 

[-OZ-]

I can only report what I saw, and that was Walter Payton being the only offensive weapon on a team that went to the playoffs.  I watched week after week as defenses put 8 in the box to stop the guy and he still ran for 1800 yards.  If you didn't watch the Bears that season my words aren't doing it justice.  Payton was a machine but even he couldn't plow them past the eventual SuperBowl champs (Dallas) in the playoffs.  But he got them there by himself.  It was a wonder to behold.

Is Kizer any worse than Bob Avellini?

Marino was my second choice.

Payton

Barry Sanders

Trent Richardson

Any of 'em really.

 

[Godsbrother]

I can only report what I saw, and that was Walter Payton being the only offensive weapon on a team that went to the playoffs.  I watched week after week as defenses put 8 in the box to stop the guy and he still ran for 1800 yards.  If you didn't watch the Bears that season my words aren't doing it justice.  Payton was a machine but even he couldn't plow them past the eventual SuperBowl champs (Dallas) in the playoffs.  But he got them there by himself.  It was a wonder to behold.

Is Kizer any worse than Bob Avellini?

Marino was my second choice.

The Steelers in the 80s went to that playoffs with some pretty crappy offensive weapons.  I especially like the 1989 team:

QBs Todd Blackledge & Bubby Brister
RBs: Merril Hoge & Dwight Stone 
WRs: Louis Lipps & Weegie Thompson
TE: Mike Mularkey

Louie Lipps was the only decent weapon on the team.  Hard to believe not only made the playoffs but actually won one and was beating a John Elway led Denver Broncos late in the game on the road before losing 24-23.  

The difference here is they had a HoF coach 

 

[Statorama]

The Steelers in the 80s went to that playoffs with some pretty crappy offensive weapons.  I especially like the 1989 team:

QBs Todd Blackledge & Bubby Brister
RBs: Merril Hoge & Dwight Stone 
WRs: Louis Lipps & Weegie Thompson
TE: Mike Mularkey

Louie Lipps was the only decent weapon on the team.  Hard to believe not only made the playoffs but actually won one and was beating a John Elway led Denver Broncos late in the game on the road before losing 24-23.  

The difference here is they had a HoF coach 

Yeah those Steeler teams were terrible in Tecmo Bowl.

Good call on the coach.  Makes a HUGE difference.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I'll go with John Elway - rocket arm and very mobile. His WRs and running game were never any good in his prime and he still brought them to Super Bowls.

 

[Raging weasel]

Peyton Manning.  He's coaching proof.

My choice as well as he would just audible out of whatever craptastic play Hue called.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I actually was hoping this was about whom the Browns could have drafted differently. Matt Ryan and Julio Jones would have been a good start plus the added benefit of getting them out of Atlanta.

But as to the actual question - give me Jim Brown. The man was a human wrecking machine. Have to adjust for time and all that but if you're going all time, team changing drafts that's where it starts. 104 yards rushing, 1+ TD per game guaranteed.

 

[travdogg]

Any decent QB. And I mean ANY, and the Browns win 6 games this season,easily 

This seems like a thread for ppl who didnt actually watch the browns, but just see 0-16

I think Kizer gets WAY too much blame for this season. He played like a rookie QB should play, he was put into nothing but awful situations by an embarrassing coach. I 100% believe that if the Browns had drafted Wentz or Watson, that both those guys would be looked at as terrible picks right now. 

I agree the Browns are nowhere near an 0-16 talent team, but the coach was a much bigger problem than the QB. I think if I could upgrade any one position from history for the Browns, it wouldn't be a player, it'd be a coach. Maybe bring back Paul Brown. Other than that, I guess Peyton Manning, because he'd just ignore Jackson and run his offense, and they'd be much better for it. 

 

[ghostguy123]

It would HAVE to be a QB.  It would have to be a QB who doesnt need a good coach to be great.

Manning is my choice.  The Browns have a good Oline which would be even better with Manning putting them in the right scheme and also not doing stupid stuff in the pocket.  

I fully believe Manning in his prime takes the 2017 Browns to the playoffs about half the time if you did 100 simulations.  

The D is middle of the road and good enough to keep the team in games when a HOF great QB is playing behind a good line with decent RBs, even with very poor WRs most of the year. 

 

[Pipes]

Aaron Rodgers.  He leads the Packers to 10-11 wins every year and if you look at their rosters objectively, without factoring in the QB, I don't think the Packer's roster is really that much better. 

 

[lsutigers]

I actually was hoping this was about whom the Browns could have drafted differently. Matt Ryan and Julio Jones would have been a good start plus the added benefit of getting them out of Atlanta.

Not to threadjack (but I'm going to do it anyway), I had the same question.  Not as to "whom they could have drafted differently", as we can do that exercise and produce an all pro caliber difference with pretty much any team.  But how about: "who was selected with the very next pick"

20171Myles GarrettDETexas A&M (Trubisky)
201725Jabrill PeppersSAFMichigan (T. McKinley)
201729David NjokuTEMiami (Fla.) ((TJ Watt))
201615Corey ColemanWRBaylor (Taylor Decker)
201512Danny SheltonDTWashington (Andrus Peat)
201519Cameron ErvingTFlorida State (Nelson Agholor)
20148Justin GilbertCBOklahoma State (Anthony Barr)
201422Johnny ManzielQBTexas A&M (Dee Ford)
20136Barkevious MingoOLBLSU (Jonathan Cooper)
20123Trent RichardsonRBAlabama (Matt Kahlil)
201222Brandon WeedenQBOklahoma State (Riley Reiff)
201121Phillip TaylorDTBaylor (Anthony Castonozo)
20107Joe HadenCBFlorida (Rolando McClain)
200921Alex MackCCalifornia (Percy Harvin)
2008No Pick--
20073Joe ThomasOTWisconsin (Gaines Adams)
200722Brady QuinnQBNotre Dame (Dwayne Bowe)
200613Kamerion WimbleyOLBFlorida State (Broderick Bunkley)
20053Braylon EdwardsWRMichigan (Cedric Benson)
20046Kellen WinslowTEMiami (Fla.) (Roy Williams the WR)
200321Jeff FaineCNotre Dame (Rex Grossman)
200216William GreenRBBoston College (Philip Buchanon)
20013Gerard WarrenDTFlorida (Justin Smith)
20001Courtney BrownDEPenn State (LaVar Arrington)
19991Tim CouchQBKentucky (Donovan McNabb)

While it's still too early to tell with 2017 (and maybe 2016), one could argue that Cleveland loses every single comparison except Joe Thomas.  And loses some of those horrifically.  It really does lend to the "does Cleveland's culture and aura make a bust" or "does Cleveland draft busts" argument.

 

[beer 30]

Whenever I see a conversation like this the easy answer for me is Joe Montana. In his prime there was nobody I'd trust more to win a game.

 

[Statorama]

While it's still too early to tell with 2017 (and maybe 2016), one could argue that Cleveland loses every single comparison except Joe Thomas.  And loses some of those horrifically.  It really does lend to the "does Cleveland's culture and aura make a bust" or "does Cleveland draft busts" argument.

Joe Haden was a pretty good pick too.  

Wow, could a team have had worse luck picking QBs?  That was one bad pick after another.

Also, said out loud "They had Kellen Winslow? ..... Oh wait, not the good one, they had the other one."  SOULJA

 

[DocHolliday]

Whenever I see a conversation like this the easy answer for me is Joe Montana. In his prime there was nobody I'd trust more to win a game.

My answer as well.   

 

[dickey moe]

Any QB of roughly the quality of Donovan McNabb or better.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Aaron Rodgers.  He leads the Packers to 10-11 wins every year and if you look at their rosters objectively, without factoring in the QB, I don't think the Packer's roster is really that much better. 

Packers are terible without aaron. Hundley isnt an nfl calbre qb and they won 2 games in aarons absence

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The Drive - 31 years ago.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Whenever I see a conversation like this the easy answer for me is Joe Montana. In his prime there was nobody I'd trust more to win a game.

In his first season in KC Montana led the Chiefs to their first conference championship game since 1969. He was injured and had to leave the game. They haven't been back since.

.

 

[rockaction]

I'd go with Aaron Rodgers as someone mentioned upthread. I don't think anybody plays quarterback better than him. He turns the Browns into 8-8 immediately.  

 

[ghostguy123]

I am not just gonna pick the best QB ever.  It needs to be the "right" QB.  It needs to be a QB who can completely ignore Hue and run his own offense.  I think Peyton was the best at that, and would give this team the best chance, and take them to the playoffs.  

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'd go with Aaron Rodgers as someone mentioned upthread. I don't think anybody plays quarterback better than him. He turns the Browns into 8-8 immediately.  

Plus he was someone whom the Browns could have drafted to change their future course. Instead they drafted Braylon Edwards and went with Trent Dilfer at QB.

 

[rockaction]

Plus he was someone whom the Browns could have drafted to change their future course. Instead they drafted Braylon Edwards and went with Trent Dilfer at QB.

Wow. I remember Rodgers falling, but look at this link.  Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, and Cadillac Williams at RB before Rodgers. And Alex Smith. Now remember, Auburn was awesome the year before, but this is ridiculous.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NFL_Draft

 

[-OZ-]

Plus he was someone whom the Browns could have drafted to change their future course. Instead they drafted Braylon Edwards and went with Trent Dilfer at QB.

man, what a career he had.  Actually started really strong then bust.  He's example A whenever I think of trading for a young guy thinking I'll be set for years to come... 

I was an owner and a fan, so disappointing.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

The challenge is to nominate the player that would give Cleveland the most wins over the past two years and advance the farthest in the post season. 

Without the bolded part: Manning

With the bolded part: Brady

 

[Doug B]

The Steelers in the 80s went to that playoffs with some pretty crappy offensive weapons ... 

Louie Lipps was the only decent weapon on the team. 

Since there's a few Saints Guys in this thread, I gotta mention that Lipps is an East St John HS product.

 

[travdogg]

Packers are terible without aaron. Hundley isnt an nfl calbre qb and they won 2 games in aarons absence

I actually thought Hundley wasn't awful for a guy who hadn't started a game before and was thrown into a very difficult situation. I think he's an NFL QB for sure, though obviously not a franchise guy. He was a solid backup. The issue is the Packers are so dependent on Rodgers elite QB play, that anything short of that turns wins into losses. Its not Hundley that was awful, it was the drop off from Rodgers to Hundley is what I'm trying to say. Hundley's play wouldn't have stood out as so bad on a team that wasn't as reliant on their QB. For example if Hundley was starting for the Vikings instead, his play doesn't stand out as much because they don't ask their QB to do everything.

 

[msudaisy26]

I'd like to see the list of games they "easily" win with just a decent QB. 

They probably split in the division and go 3 - 3, then you can make a case for these games, Colts. Titans, Packers, Jets. 

 

[Cjw_55106]

They probably split in the division and go 3 - 3, then you can make a case for these games, Colts. Titans, Packers, Jets. 

Just because the games were close doesn’t mean they “easily” win with a decent QB. In fact, in some of those games, their QB played fine. 

 

[msudaisy26]

Just because the games were close doesn’t mean they “easily” win with a decent QB. In fact, in some of those games, their QB played fine. 

True, but I don't want to argue it. I watched them play the Lions and they looked like the better team with a horrible qb and they lost by 14. If I wanted to argue it, I would say they win that game by 10 + if they have decent qb play. 

 

[kutta]

I know you said “player,” but I’d take Sean McVay. What he’s done with LA is mind blowing. You gotta think that a great coach could turn that roster into a winning team.

If I HAVE to take a player, I’d take Peyton. I don’t think he’s the GOAT for QB’s, but I do think he’s the closest thing to a player/coach we’ve ever seen, and it seems like he would get the most out of everyone.

 

[Grahamburn]

Wow. I remember Rodgers falling, but look at this link.  Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, and Cadillac Williams at RB before Rodgers. And Alex Smith. Now remember, Auburn was awesome the year before, but this is ridiculous.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NFL_Draft

Trading for Jon Gruden and then his subsequent drafts when he had full player control pretty much nuked Tampa's future after the Super Bowl.  I fear for the Raiders.

 

[rockaction]

I know you said “player,” but I’d take Sean McVay. What he’s done with LA is mind blowing. You gotta think that a great coach could turn that roster into a winning team.

If I HAVE to take a player, I’d take Peyton. I don’t think he’s the GOAT for QB’s, but I do think he’s the closest thing to a player/coach we’ve ever seen, and it seems like he would get the most out of everyone.

I went pure player in my pick, but Peyton is an excellent choice for exactly this reason.  

Trading for Jon Gruden and then his subsequent drafts when he had full player control pretty much nuked Tampa's future after the Super Bowl.  I fear for the Raiders.

Yeah, that's a really good point. You basically got one year and a Super Bowl out of Gruden and then nothing.  

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The challenge is to nominate the player that would give Cleveland the most wins over the past two years and advance the farthest in the post season. 

Gavin Escobar.

 

[Rove!]

I'll go with John Elway - rocket arm and very mobile. His WRs and running game were never any good in his prime and he still brought them to Super Bowls.

Elway, is another guy like Peyton, that had a lousy coach for most of his career...guy was money ....I like this pick

 

[RaiderBones]

Tim Tebow