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Browns hire Rob Chudzinski as new HC (1 Viewer)

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
Browns have hired Jags EDIT: 'PANTHERS' OC Rob Chudzinski as their new HC.

Some of the tweets that came out to judge the immediate gut reaction.

Jason Cole‏@JasonColeYahoo

Chud hire by Browns is solid work. Smart guy, hard worker, understated.

Ian Rapoport‏@RapSheet

Could turn @PhilTaylor98 into a star... RT @MaryKayCabot: Look for the #Browns to switch to a 3-4 attack defense.

P. Schrager‏@PSchrags

Here's what I know on CLE situation-- Chud is HC, Norv is coming with him, Norv's son Scott Turner is too...D will move to a 3-4 scheme.

Retweeted by Ian Rapoport

Ian Rapoport‏@RapSheet

I'll never forget @bweeden3 telling me: "I'm an aggressive thrower." If Norv Turner does land with #Browns, he'll let him really throw.

I'm sure we'll hear more by tomorrow but its great news that Norv Turner is coming with him and Ian Rappaport is of the opinion that it means Brandon Weeden will get the green light next year to test his arm.

Not loving the switch back to the 3-4 as it seems to stifle the talents of both DE Jabaal Sheard and MLB D'Qwell Jackson. Sheaed will inevitably be switched to one of the OLB positions as a stand-up 3-4 DE. Probably great news for rookie LB James-Michael Johnson and TJ Ward and as stated DT Phil Tayloer but also look for DT/DE Billy Wynn to be a great fit on the D-line. Oh and I shouldn't forget OLB Craig Robertson, he's a very good cover LB and was making strides at the end of the season.

I would imagine they are counting on OLB Scott Gocong to make a full recovery and he's a solid fit at one of the OLB positions but the team needs depth and very likley will be look at LB for their top pick at draft time.

Love the fact Chud is a lifelong Browns fan, comes from the area and has already coached two times for the Browns so he really wants to be successful and Norv Turner is the real deal as an OC.

Biggest curiousities now are who will they get for DC and GM/Pro Personnel director.

Hope Sheard can make the adjustment since he's the only one who can rush the passer.

D'Q sharing the inside with JMJ will hurt his IDP status but TJ Ward will likely get a bump since he's a nice fit to move up into the box in run support.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Former Panthers OC, not Jags
Oops.People are questioning if Sheard will be able to make the switch from 4-3 DE to 3-4. From NFL.com's Adam Caplain.

caplannfl

Don't know that he can't play OLB. RT @iamdugan: @caplannfl can Sheard play 3-4 end?He def can't play OLB.

1/10/13 10:45 PM

He thinks the switch to the 3-4 is a good idea.

caplannfl

While the Browns where somewhat stingy on defense, they were still not very aggressive. Move to 3-4 could be the right decision.

1/10/13 10:42 PM

 
I've seen where fans where excited to see one guy depart, and another set of fans were excited to see the same guy arrive but I've never seen it happened with two hires on the same team. Lottsa relieved Carolina and San Diego fans, and just as many excited Browns fans.

 
I've seen where fans where excited to see one guy depart, and another set of fans were excited to see the same guy arrive but I've never seen it happened with two hires on the same team. Lottsa relieved Carolina and San Diego fans, and just as many excited Browns fans.
No one has ever liked Norv Turner as HC but they have liked him very much as an OC and he comes to Cleveland as Chud's OC.I didn't like Shurmur because he never acted and took control or acted like the head coach when he was on the sidelines. He actually tried to be both HC AND OC his first year and held onto his play sheet like a binkie. He TRIPPED OVER a ref in his very first game and got a fifteen yard penalty.That was bad but this year... HE DID IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!Chud won't be the OC he will be the HC and Norv will be his OC. No NFL HC is going to take the play calling away from Norv Turner so Chud will run the show.Joe Banner was part of the group that hired Andy Ried and say what you will about Andy but he coached for 14 years in a rough town and he took that team to the SB and a couple of NFC Championship games. Ried was an unknown when he was hired. I like Chud since he grew up in NE Ohio and he's a life-long Browns fan. THAT does grab a piece of my heart right off the bat. I love he brings in Norv Turner and that he WON'T be calling the plays. I'll give him lots of leeway and support, just wanna see how the GM/Pro Personnel side settles since I loved what Tom Heckertt did and I'm curious about who Chud gets as his DC.
 
I like the hire and I think this will be an improvement over what the Browns coaching staff of 2012 on the offensive side of the ball. The complaints I have heard about Chud seem to be that he may micromanage too much on offense. Norv Turner on the other hand usually strips things down to what players do best and lets them get very good at running those plays. This sounds like a great combination to me, the HC has innovative offensive game theory and a grissled veteran OC who can take the best of that and practice it to excellent execution. I think the Browns have enough talent in Richardson and Gordon along with some good pieces on the offensive line to get better and be more balanced on offense.Although the reporters are saying the Browns switch to 3-4 I am still not buying it yet.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Typical Browns. Hire guy whose idea of how to build an offense happens to fit the mold of the guys currently in place, who sucked. And in the same note blow up a perfectly good defense. Browns logic.

 
Some insight into Rob Chudzinski, explains why he got this opportunity.

My link

Panthers OC Rob Chudzinski: More than a 'grinder'

Offensive coordinator has orchestrated remarkable turnaround for Panthers

Posted: Friday, Sep. 07, 2012

Rob Chudzinski calls a better game than he talks.

The Carolina Panthers’ offensive coordinator – a sought-after head-coaching candidate this past offseason after directing Carolina’s offensive resurgence – speaks in generalities when discussing what his innovative scheme might look like in year two with Cam Newton at the controls.

The man known in NFL circles as “Chud” talks about improving techniques and fundamentals, finding complements to packages that were successful last year and staying ahead of defensive coordinators who have had an offseason to study Newton and Chudzinski’s multi-layered attack.

“That’s one of the things we’ve stressed with our guys. Every year’s a new season and you have to start from scratch,” Chudzinski said during a recent interview. “You start at the bottom and you have to climb the mountain to get to where you want to be.”

Chudzinski wants to be where just about every assistant coach at any level wants to be – in the office with the nice view, plush carpet and HEAD COACH nameplate on the door.

Chudzinski nearly got there last winter, when he interviewed with Jacksonville, Tampa Bay and St. Louis after the Panthers jumped from last in the league in offense to seventh in his first season. Ultimately, Chudzinski lost out to Mike Mularkey, Greg Schiano and Jeff Fisher, respectively.

They were Chudzinski’s first interviews for a head-coaching position; Panthers coach Ron Rivera said they won’t be his last.

In the meantime, Chudzinski – referred to as a “genius” by one of his Panthers players and a “grinder” by another – has work to do on this August afternoon. Glancing at his watch less than 10 minutes into a scheduled interview, Chudzinski tells a reporter he has to get going.

The Panthers are more than two weeks away from their first regular-season game. But Chudzinski has practice tape to watch, opponents to study and a playbook to cram more plays into.

Effort and intelligence

Panthers tight end Greg Olsen breaks coaches into two categories: those who outwork their opponents and those who outthink them. Then there’s Chudzinski.

“There’s usually two kinds of guys. The grinder, who guts his way through because he just outworks everyone. And then there’s just the smart guy, who just naturally has a mind for putting things together and anticipating defenses and tendencies,” Olsen said. “Chud is the combination of both.”

Olsen, who, like Chudzinski, is a former University of Miami tight end, said Chudzinski sees things during games and has a knack for calling the right play against different defensive alignments. But it’s more than having a high football IQ.

“He has the mind to call and anticipate what a coverage is going to be. And we happen to get the perfect call,” Olsen said. “Well, it’s not by accident. It’s because he studies and puts the time in to get all his studies and reports on his piece of paper for gameday because of the hours he puts in.

“It’s rare you find a guy that has both of those qualities.”

Chudzinski worked his way up the coaching ladder rung by rung. He advanced from graduate assistant to tight ends coach to offensive coordinator during 10 years at his alma mater.

He was Miami’s coordinator under in 2001 when the Hurricanes won the national championship. The next season Miami set school records for points, total yards and rushing touchdowns.

Chudzinski followed Butch Davis to Cleveland in 2004, and went to San Diego the following season after the Browns fired Davis. When Chudzinski returned as the Browns’ coordinator under Romeo Crennel in 2007, he looked to be on the fast track to a head-coaching job.

With quarterback Derek Anderson, tight end Kellen Winslow Jr. and two other offensive players earning Pro Bowl berths, the Browns went 10-6 and finished eighth in total offense and scoring.

But Cleveland bottomed out the next year amid injuries to several key players, including Anderson, who is Newton’s backup with the Panthers. Crennel was fired and Chudzinski accepted the tight ends position in San Diego, reuniting with Norv Turner and Rivera, the Chargers’ defensive coordinator.

When the Panthers hired Rivera in 2011, his first choice to run the offense was Chudzinski.

‘Sky is the limit’

With Rivera’s background as a defensive coach, he wanted someone who could oversee the offense while Rivera was on the defensive field. Rivera has given Chudzinski nearly full autonomy.

During the season, the two meet early in the week to go over the offensive game plan. If Chudzinski has a couple of new or trick plays he’s considering using, he has Rivera look at them during walkthroughs before practice.

Rivera said he has yet to veto a Chudzinski call.

“With Chud, there are no lines. It’s just go out and do it, which I think is great,” Rivera said. “He has a progression of learning and the way he teaches things. He starts with simple, basic things and from there the sky is the limit.”

After struggling with accuracy during the preseason, Newton flourished in Chudzinski’s system, a mix of the zone-read package similar to what Newton ran at Auburn and a vertical stretch passing attack that Chudzinski developed in Cleveland and San Diego.

The scheme played to Newton’s strengths as a runner and passer. He broke Peyton Manning’s rookie passing record, scored more rushing touchdowns in a single season than any quarterback in history and became the first player to throw for 4,000 yards and run for 500 in a season.

But it wasn’t just Newton.

Steve Smith produced his first 1,000-yard receiving season since 2008, and DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart teamed with Newton to become the first trio in league history to rush for 700 yards each.

As a team, the Panthers led the league in plays of 20 yards or more (90), and scored 48 touchdowns a year after finishing with a franchise low of 17 in John Fox’s final season. The Panthers’ leap from 32nd to seventh in total offense was the biggest one-year improvement since St. Louis improved 26 spots in 1999.

“He’s really just a genius,” Stewart said of Chudzinski. “He spends a lot of time with the offense trying to create ways for players to be successful. That’s what a good offensive coordinator and coach is all about. He does a good job of explaining what he wants, and what he expects out of us individually and collectively.”

Stewart believes the Panthers only scratched the surface last season of what they can do offensively. Without OTAs and minicamp, the Panthers arrived in Spartanburg following the lockout with three weeks to install a new offense.

The learning curve was steep.

“To be honest, it took probably until Week 8 or Week 9 to really grasp the whole offense,” wide receiver Brandon LaFell said. “Going out there and being comfortable, knowing where to line up and not thinking about what I’ve got to do at the line of scrimmage, but knowing exactly what I need to do in the huddle.”

Chudzinski said the Panthers should benefit from having a true offseason “to go back to the basics, re-install things and get better at the core of what we’re doing.”

The Panthers will add to what they’re doing, as well. Asked at training camp if the playbook was thicker this year, Stewart smiled and nodded.

Time will come

Chudzinski only needs to walk down the hall in the coaches offices at Bank of America Stadium to find a great resource on the process of becoming a head coach. Rivera interviewed for nine NFL head coaching positions before the Panthers hired him.

Before his first interview last winter, Chudzinski talked to Rivera about what to expect.

“We talked about the things he needed to be prepared for, the questions he’ll get, all those kinds of things,” Rivera said. “Believe me, I was very happy that he got the opportunity. I was torn that he got the opportunity. And I know he’s going to get that opportunity again. He’s a dynamic person.”

The knock on some coordinators is that they’re Xs-and-Os guys who lack the attributes needed to be a successful head coach, namely leadership ability and communication and organizational skills.

Rivera said that’s not the case with Chudzinski.

“He’s dynamic, a sharp guy. He thinks outside the box. And I know his time’s coming,” Rivera said. “The big key is it’s got to be the right situation, the right fit. You don’t take jobs to take jobs. I’ve learned that over the last few years.”

Panthers offensive quality control Scott Turner spends as much time with Chudzinski as anyone on the staff, and sits next to him in the press box when Chudzinski is calling plays. Turner, son of Chargers coach Norv Turner, said Chudzinski has the makeup to be a head coach.

“Chud’s got the ability to do whatever he wants in this profession,” Turner said. “I’ve been very impressed working for him and seeing what he does. I don’t think there’s any limitations on his coaching career.”

But on this muggy August day, as players file past him on their way to the stadium after practice, Chudzinski has other things on his mind.

“It was a great experience. I was very flattered to have the opportunity to do that and be able to talk and meet a number of people at those organizations that I talked with,” he said. “Obviously, if the opportunity ever comes, great. But I’m enjoying every minute of this and being with this group of guys and coming to work every day.”

And with that, Chudzinski goes back to work, ducking into a stadium door and heading upstairs to his office. There is tape to watch, plays to draw and defensive coordinators around the league trying to stop him.
 
Funny column given how awful his offense was for the first 10 games this season.
Yes I cannot help but think of how the Bucs totally owned the Panthers when they played week 1. I think the experience of pizza face will be a great resource and balance to him though.
 
Well Norv Turner is the OC, not Chud.

Here's a rundown of how Norv Turner's offense operates.

Its a virtical-stretch, think old-school 'air Coryell' Sid Gillman.

This is from a few years back when Norv was coaching for the Raiders.

My link

Football 101 > Coryell Offense

The Basics of the Coryell Offense

by Edweirdo. Thanks Eye_Patch for the info on Sid Gillman!

posted on 2005/05/05

Raiders head coach Norv Turner runs an offensive system known as the Coryell offense, which Don Coryell devised and brought to the NFL as head coach of the San Diego Chargers in the late 1970s. Simply put, the Coryell offense is the antithesis of the West Coast offense ("WCO"). In recent years, the explosive offenses of the Rams and the Chiefs have brought the Coryell offense back into the spotlight of the NFL. This article discusses:

1.How the Coryell offense differs from the West Coast offense

2.A brief history of the Coryell offense

3.What are the personnel requirements for the Coryell offense

4.What are the advantages of the Coryell offense

How the Coryell offense differs from the West Coast offense

The WCO has the following characteristics:

•It is a "ball-control" offense, predicated on the ability of the QB to achieve a high completion percentage

•The receivers often run precise short-to-intermediate routes and a lot of crossing routes and slants. The receivers are expected to pick up yards after the catch

•The QB takes more 3- and 5-step drops as opposed to 7-step drops

•When the QB and WRs are on the same page, it can be difficult to disrupt the rhythm of the offense

•It relies heavily on the receiving skills of backs coming out of the backfield

The Coryell offense has the following characteristics:

•It is a "stretch-the-field vertically" offense, predicated on the complementary effects of throwing deep and running the football

•The receivers often run intermediate-to-long routes

•The QB takes more 5- and 7-step drops

•It emphasizes maximum pass protection, to protect the QB until the receivers get open downfield

•It is committed to the power running game. The running game opens up opportunities for big downfield completions, and vice versa. Mike Martz, in an interview with Dr. Z of CNN/SI said:

That's another thing that's critical to the system. Power running. You've got to be able to run the ball when you go to a three-wide receiver set, and you've got to run with power. By that I mean behind zone blocking, which is a big departure from the San Francisco system. Theirs was man-blocking, with a lot of cut-blocks and misdirection. Ours is straight power. Not many people realize this, but if we hadn't have gotten Marshall we were prepared to go with another excellent zone-blocking runner, Robert Holcombe. It takes a certain type, a guy who can run with power, who's good at picking his way through. Stephen Davis is doing that in Washington now, and that's a big reason why their offense is so good...The good thing about zone-block running is that you can keep pounding away. You don't have the negative yardage plays.

A brief history of the Coryell offense

The Coryell offense didn't start with Coryell. Sid Gillman was the innovator of the vertical game back in the 1960s. Many members of Gillman's staff, including Al Davis and **** Vermiel have been adherents to the vertical game ever since. Coryell adapted Gillman's ideas into the system that now bears his name.

There are several notable implementers of the Coryell offense in the league today: Joe Gibbs in WAS, Mike Martz in STL, Norv Turner in OAK, and **** Vermeil in KC. Many of these coaches are connected in the coaching tree, starting with Gillman or Coryell. Gibbs served on Coryell's staff in SD and brought the system to Washington. Turner served on Ernie Zampese's staff on the LA Rams and brought the system to Dallas. Martz served on Turner's staff in Washington.

What are the personnel requirements for the Coryell offense

The personnel requirements are significantly different between the Coryell O and WCO. In the Coryell O:

QBs must be able to throw deep with accuracy. They are typically pocket passers with big arms. Examples of solid Coryell QBs are the Cowboys' HOFer Troy Aikman (6-4 220) and former Ram Kurt Warner (6-2 200)

WRs must be able to stretch the field. The name of the game is speed and separation. By contrast, the WCO favors physical possession receivers, such as Jerry Rice. Examples of solid Coryell WRs are the Rams' Torry Holt (6-0 195) and the Raiders' Randy Moss (6-4 205)

•RBs carry a heavy load and tend to have good power. Norv Turner in particular has preferred to feed the ball to a feature back (Emmitt Smith in DAL, Terry Allen in WAS, Stephen Davis in WAS, LaDainian Tomlinson in SD, Ricky Williams in MIA). So the Raiders went out in FA and signed former Jet LaMont Jordan (5-10 230) to a big 5 year / $27.5 MM deal to be that workhorse RB. Examples of solid Coryell RBs are former Redskin John Riggins (6-2 230), former Cowboy Emmitt Smith (5-9 215), and the Chiefs' Priest Holmes (5-9 213)

TEs tend to be strong blockers; they are relied upon heavily in pass protection and in paving the way for RBs in the ground game. In general, the WCO favors TEs with receiving over blocking skills (e.g. the Jets' Doug Jolley) whereas the Coryell O favors the reverse, although obviously a TE who can do both can fit into any system. This explains, in part, why 2004 rookie 7th rounder Courtney Anderson (6-6 270), with his size and ability to run-block, was able to leap-frog former 2nd rounders Doug Jolley (6-4 250) and Teyo Johnson on the Raiders depth chart

OL tend to be big and physical compared to their WCO counterparts. Some WCO teams have gotten by with smaller OL (e.g. the Niners in the 1990s and the Broncos of recent years), because the linemen are able to block at angles and only need to maintain pass protection for a short period of time. Coryell OL are road graders in the running game, but they must also pass protect on drawn-out deep passing plays. Examples of solid Coryell OLs are the Cowboys' massive (at the time) championship OL in the 1990s and the Chiefs' OL in recent years

Arguably the best Coryell offense ever was the Rams' "Greatest Show on Turf" team in 1999. They had an awesome set of wideouts (Bruce, Holt, Hakim, and Proehl), a strong OL, and Faulk and Warner in their prime.

The Raiders have assembled the ingredients to run the Coryell system effectively: a strong-armed accurate deep thrower in Collins; 4 excellent deep threats with Moss, Porter, Curry, and Gabriel at WR; an explosive power back in Jordan; a power-blocking TE in Anderson; and a big, talented offensive line.

What are the advantages of the Coryell offense

Run correctly, it is simply an explosive offense, capable of big plays at any time. It puts opposing defenses in a bind: does the defense defend the deep ball, thereby weakening its run support, or does it defend the run, thereby leaving itself vulnerable to big plays downfield?

There are some folks, including Al Davis, who feel that defenses have caught up with the WCO, esp with systems such as the Dungy Cover 2 defense. In Dungy's system, the WRs are bumped from their timing routes by press coverage by the CBs, the LBs are fast and have strong coverage ability, and the DL is quick and disruptive. These elements all counter strengths of the WCO.

Norv Turner's strong experience and belief in the Coryell system played a huge part in his landing the head coaching gig for the Raiders in 2004. The vertical game is back in Oakland, baby!

Reader Comments

If you have feedback / comments for this article, email me at edweirdosraiders@gmail.com. I may add them to this page.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Cleveland plus Norv Turner. Maybe they're trying to get northern Ohio to undergo gravitational collapse from a critical mass of suckage.

 
I'd love to see the Browns win their division for a change. That said, it better be year one before Chud out works and out thinks his team into total confusion.

 
Well Norv Turner is the OC, not Chud.

Here's a rundown of how Norv Turner's offense operates.

Its a virtical-stretch, think old-school 'air Coryell' Sid Gillman.

This is from a few years back when Norv was coaching for the Raiders.

My link

Football 101 > Coryell Offense

The Basics of the Coryell Offense

by Edweirdo. Thanks Eye_Patch for the info on Sid Gillman!

posted on 2005/05/05

Raiders head coach Norv Turner runs an offensive system known as the Coryell offense, which Don Coryell devised and brought to the NFL as head coach of the San Diego Chargers in the late 1970s. Simply put, the Coryell offense is the antithesis of the West Coast offense ("WCO"). In recent years, the explosive offenses of the Rams and the Chiefs have brought the Coryell offense back into the spotlight of the NFL. This article discusses:

1.How the Coryell offense differs from the West Coast offense

2.A brief history of the Coryell offense

3.What are the personnel requirements for the Coryell offense

4.What are the advantages of the Coryell offense

How the Coryell offense differs from the West Coast offense

The WCO has the following characteristics:

•It is a "ball-control" offense, predicated on the ability of the QB to achieve a high completion percentage

•The receivers often run precise short-to-intermediate routes and a lot of crossing routes and slants. The receivers are expected to pick up yards after the catch

•The QB takes more 3- and 5-step drops as opposed to 7-step drops

•When the QB and WRs are on the same page, it can be difficult to disrupt the rhythm of the offense

•It relies heavily on the receiving skills of backs coming out of the backfield

The Coryell offense has the following characteristics:

•It is a "stretch-the-field vertically" offense, predicated on the complementary effects of throwing deep and running the football

•The receivers often run intermediate-to-long routes

•The QB takes more 5- and 7-step drops

•It emphasizes maximum pass protection, to protect the QB until the receivers get open downfield

•It is committed to the power running game. The running game opens up opportunities for big downfield completions, and vice versa. Mike Martz, in an interview with Dr. Z of CNN/SI said:

That's another thing that's critical to the system. Power running. You've got to be able to run the ball when you go to a three-wide receiver set, and you've got to run with power. By that I mean behind zone blocking, which is a big departure from the San Francisco system. Theirs was man-blocking, with a lot of cut-blocks and misdirection. Ours is straight power. Not many people realize this, but if we hadn't have gotten Marshall we were prepared to go with another excellent zone-blocking runner, Robert Holcombe. It takes a certain type, a guy who can run with power, who's good at picking his way through. Stephen Davis is doing that in Washington now, and that's a big reason why their offense is so good...The good thing about zone-block running is that you can keep pounding away. You don't have the negative yardage plays.

A brief history of the Coryell offense

The Coryell offense didn't start with Coryell. Sid Gillman was the innovator of the vertical game back in the 1960s. Many members of Gillman's staff, including Al Davis and **** Vermiel have been adherents to the vertical game ever since. Coryell adapted Gillman's ideas into the system that now bears his name.

There are several notable implementers of the Coryell offense in the league today: Joe Gibbs in WAS, Mike Martz in STL, Norv Turner in OAK, and **** Vermeil in KC. Many of these coaches are connected in the coaching tree, starting with Gillman or Coryell. Gibbs served on Coryell's staff in SD and brought the system to Washington. Turner served on Ernie Zampese's staff on the LA Rams and brought the system to Dallas. Martz served on Turner's staff in Washington.

What are the personnel requirements for the Coryell offense

The personnel requirements are significantly different between the Coryell O and WCO. In the Coryell O:

QBs must be able to throw deep with accuracy. They are typically pocket passers with big arms. Examples of solid Coryell QBs are the Cowboys' HOFer Troy Aikman (6-4 220) and former Ram Kurt Warner (6-2 200)

WRs must be able to stretch the field. The name of the game is speed and separation. By contrast, the WCO favors physical possession receivers, such as Jerry Rice. Examples of solid Coryell WRs are the Rams' Torry Holt (6-0 195) and the Raiders' Randy Moss (6-4 205)

•RBs carry a heavy load and tend to have good power. Norv Turner in particular has preferred to feed the ball to a feature back (Emmitt Smith in DAL, Terry Allen in WAS, Stephen Davis in WAS, LaDainian Tomlinson in SD, Ricky Williams in MIA). So the Raiders went out in FA and signed former Jet LaMont Jordan (5-10 230) to a big 5 year / $27.5 MM deal to be that workhorse RB. Examples of solid Coryell RBs are former Redskin John Riggins (6-2 230), former Cowboy Emmitt Smith (5-9 215), and the Chiefs' Priest Holmes (5-9 213)

TEs tend to be strong blockers; they are relied upon heavily in pass protection and in paving the way for RBs in the ground game. In general, the WCO favors TEs with receiving over blocking skills (e.g. the Jets' Doug Jolley) whereas the Coryell O favors the reverse, although obviously a TE who can do both can fit into any system. This explains, in part, why 2004 rookie 7th rounder Courtney Anderson (6-6 270), with his size and ability to run-block, was able to leap-frog former 2nd rounders Doug Jolley (6-4 250) and Teyo Johnson on the Raiders depth chart

OL tend to be big and physical compared to their WCO counterparts. Some WCO teams have gotten by with smaller OL (e.g. the Niners in the 1990s and the Broncos of recent years), because the linemen are able to block at angles and only need to maintain pass protection for a short period of time. Coryell OL are road graders in the running game, but they must also pass protect on drawn-out deep passing plays. Examples of solid Coryell OLs are the Cowboys' massive (at the time) championship OL in the 1990s and the Chiefs' OL in recent years

Arguably the best Coryell offense ever was the Rams' "Greatest Show on Turf" team in 1999. They had an awesome set of wideouts (Bruce, Holt, Hakim, and Proehl), a strong OL, and Faulk and Warner in their prime.

The Raiders have assembled the ingredients to run the Coryell system effectively: a strong-armed accurate deep thrower in Collins; 4 excellent deep threats with Moss, Porter, Curry, and Gabriel at WR; an explosive power back in Jordan; a power-blocking TE in Anderson; and a big, talented offensive line.

What are the advantages of the Coryell offense

Run correctly, it is simply an explosive offense, capable of big plays at any time. It puts opposing defenses in a bind: does the defense defend the deep ball, thereby weakening its run support, or does it defend the run, thereby leaving itself vulnerable to big plays downfield?

There are some folks, including Al Davis, who feel that defenses have caught up with the WCO, esp with systems such as the Dungy Cover 2 defense. In Dungy's system, the WRs are bumped from their timing routes by press coverage by the CBs, the LBs are fast and have strong coverage ability, and the DL is quick and disruptive. These elements all counter strengths of the WCO.

Norv Turner's strong experience and belief in the Coryell system played a huge part in his landing the head coaching gig for the Raiders in 2004. The vertical game is back in Oakland, baby!

Reader Comments

If you have feedback / comments for this article, email me at edweirdosraiders@gmail.com. I may add them to this page.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:thumbup: sonds like norv is good for trent, gordon and weeden

bad for cameron/watson

and really bad for little

 
Chudzinski would want to be a better head coach than OC because he was awfully rigid and unable to get the best out of the weapons he had at his disposal.

 
as a Ray Rice owner, I was hoping for Turner to go to Balitmore..

:penalty:

this is a great hire for the Browns, and for Trent Richardson..

if he's healthy, and given Norv's resume with RBs, there's no reason to think that he can't be top 5 RB in 2013

 
Chudzinski would want to be a better head coach than OC because he was awfully rigid and unable to get the best out of the weapons he had at his disposal.
Yep, all bells and whistles. More concerned about being creative than maximizing potential.
 
Well Norv Turner is the OC, not Chud.

Here's a rundown of how Norv Turner's offense operates.

Its a virtical-stretch, think old-school 'air Coryell' Sid Gillman.

This is from a few years back when Norv was coaching for the Raiders.

My link

Football 101 > Coryell Offense

The Basics of the Coryell Offense

by Edweirdo. Thanks Eye_Patch for the info on Sid Gillman!

posted on 2005/05/05

Raiders head coach Norv Turner runs an offensive system known as the Coryell offense, which Don Coryell devised and brought to the NFL as head coach of the San Diego Chargers in the late 1970s. Simply put, the Coryell offense is the antithesis of the West Coast offense ("WCO"). In recent years, the explosive offenses of the Rams and the Chiefs have brought the Coryell offense back into the spotlight of the NFL. This article discusses:

1.How the Coryell offense differs from the West Coast offense

2.A brief history of the Coryell offense

3.What are the personnel requirements for the Coryell offense

4.What are the advantages of the Coryell offense

How the Coryell offense differs from the West Coast offense

The WCO has the following characteristics:

•It is a "ball-control" offense, predicated on the ability of the QB to achieve a high completion percentage

•The receivers often run precise short-to-intermediate routes and a lot of crossing routes and slants. The receivers are expected to pick up yards after the catch

•The QB takes more 3- and 5-step drops as opposed to 7-step drops

•When the QB and WRs are on the same page, it can be difficult to disrupt the rhythm of the offense

•It relies heavily on the receiving skills of backs coming out of the backfield

The Coryell offense has the following characteristics:

•It is a "stretch-the-field vertically" offense, predicated on the complementary effects of throwing deep and running the football

•The receivers often run intermediate-to-long routes

•The QB takes more 5- and 7-step drops

•It emphasizes maximum pass protection, to protect the QB until the receivers get open downfield

•It is committed to the power running game. The running game opens up opportunities for big downfield completions, and vice versa. Mike Martz, in an interview with Dr. Z of CNN/SI said:

That's another thing that's critical to the system. Power running. You've got to be able to run the ball when you go to a three-wide receiver set, and you've got to run with power. By that I mean behind zone blocking, which is a big departure from the San Francisco system. Theirs was man-blocking, with a lot of cut-blocks and misdirection. Ours is straight power. Not many people realize this, but if we hadn't have gotten Marshall we were prepared to go with another excellent zone-blocking runner, Robert Holcombe. It takes a certain type, a guy who can run with power, who's good at picking his way through. Stephen Davis is doing that in Washington now, and that's a big reason why their offense is so good...The good thing about zone-block running is that you can keep pounding away. You don't have the negative yardage plays.

A brief history of the Coryell offense

The Coryell offense didn't start with Coryell. Sid Gillman was the innovator of the vertical game back in the 1960s. Many members of Gillman's staff, including Al Davis and **** Vermiel have been adherents to the vertical game ever since. Coryell adapted Gillman's ideas into the system that now bears his name.

There are several notable implementers of the Coryell offense in the league today: Joe Gibbs in WAS, Mike Martz in STL, Norv Turner in OAK, and **** Vermeil in KC. Many of these coaches are connected in the coaching tree, starting with Gillman or Coryell. Gibbs served on Coryell's staff in SD and brought the system to Washington. Turner served on Ernie Zampese's staff on the LA Rams and brought the system to Dallas. Martz served on Turner's staff in Washington.

What are the personnel requirements for the Coryell offense

The personnel requirements are significantly different between the Coryell O and WCO. In the Coryell O:

QBs must be able to throw deep with accuracy. They are typically pocket passers with big arms. Examples of solid Coryell QBs are the Cowboys' HOFer Troy Aikman (6-4 220) and former Ram Kurt Warner (6-2 200)

WRs must be able to stretch the field. The name of the game is speed and separation. By contrast, the WCO favors physical possession receivers, such as Jerry Rice. Examples of solid Coryell WRs are the Rams' Torry Holt (6-0 195) and the Raiders' Randy Moss (6-4 205)

•RBs carry a heavy load and tend to have good power. Norv Turner in particular has preferred to feed the ball to a feature back (Emmitt Smith in DAL, Terry Allen in WAS, Stephen Davis in WAS, LaDainian Tomlinson in SD, Ricky Williams in MIA). So the Raiders went out in FA and signed former Jet LaMont Jordan (5-10 230) to a big 5 year / $27.5 MM deal to be that workhorse RB. Examples of solid Coryell RBs are former Redskin John Riggins (6-2 230), former Cowboy Emmitt Smith (5-9 215), and the Chiefs' Priest Holmes (5-9 213)

TEs tend to be strong blockers; they are relied upon heavily in pass protection and in paving the way for RBs in the ground game. In general, the WCO favors TEs with receiving over blocking skills (e.g. the Jets' Doug Jolley) whereas the Coryell O favors the reverse, although obviously a TE who can do both can fit into any system. This explains, in part, why 2004 rookie 7th rounder Courtney Anderson (6-6 270), with his size and ability to run-block, was able to leap-frog former 2nd rounders Doug Jolley (6-4 250) and Teyo Johnson on the Raiders depth chart

OL tend to be big and physical compared to their WCO counterparts. Some WCO teams have gotten by with smaller OL (e.g. the Niners in the 1990s and the Broncos of recent years), because the linemen are able to block at angles and only need to maintain pass protection for a short period of time. Coryell OL are road graders in the running game, but they must also pass protect on drawn-out deep passing plays. Examples of solid Coryell OLs are the Cowboys' massive (at the time) championship OL in the 1990s and the Chiefs' OL in recent years

Arguably the best Coryell offense ever was the Rams' "Greatest Show on Turf" team in 1999. They had an awesome set of wideouts (Bruce, Holt, Hakim, and Proehl), a strong OL, and Faulk and Warner in their prime.

The Raiders have assembled the ingredients to run the Coryell system effectively: a strong-armed accurate deep thrower in Collins; 4 excellent deep threats with Moss, Porter, Curry, and Gabriel at WR; an explosive power back in Jordan; a power-blocking TE in Anderson; and a big, talented offensive line.

What are the advantages of the Coryell offense

Run correctly, it is simply an explosive offense, capable of big plays at any time. It puts opposing defenses in a bind: does the defense defend the deep ball, thereby weakening its run support, or does it defend the run, thereby leaving itself vulnerable to big plays downfield?

There are some folks, including Al Davis, who feel that defenses have caught up with the WCO, esp with systems such as the Dungy Cover 2 defense. In Dungy's system, the WRs are bumped from their timing routes by press coverage by the CBs, the LBs are fast and have strong coverage ability, and the DL is quick and disruptive. These elements all counter strengths of the WCO.

Norv Turner's strong experience and belief in the Coryell system played a huge part in his landing the head coaching gig for the Raiders in 2004. The vertical game is back in Oakland, baby!

Reader Comments

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:thumbup: sonds like norv is good for trent, gordon and weeden

bad for cameron/watson

and really bad for little
Accuracy and 5-7 step dropbacks are not good things for Weeden.
 
Chud turned that buttplug Derek Anderson into a Pro Bowl quarterback, so he's clearly a wizard of some kind, or at the very least dabbles in the dark arts. Maybe he'll be bringing the fountain of youth with him to Cleveland for that geriatric rookie QB.Good hire.

 
Bump Gordon.
WR Josh Gordon could make a dramatic leap next year in this system.QB Brandon Weeden could also make a huge leap because this system is tailor made for him.

The offensive line is one of the best pass protecting lines in the league and in this system the 5 and 7 step drops are protected whereas in the WCO they weren't and I just heard that OG Jason Pinkston is 100% healthy and will be ready for camp this summer so our O-Line is already in place.

The TE position WILL be utilized in any Chudzinski offense. From MKC's article about the Chud hiring.

As the Chargers' tight ends and assistant head coach in 2010, Chudzinski helped San Diego rank first in the NFL in total offense with an average of 395.6 yards per game and second in scoring with an average of 27.6 points per game.

Tight end Antonio Gates excelled during both of Chudzinski's two-year stints on the Chargers' staff (2005-06, 2009-10). Gates made his seventh consecutive Pro Bowl in 2010, one year after producing a career-high 1,157 yards. In 2005, Chudzinski's first season as San Diego's tight ends coach, Gates registered the only other 1,000-yard receiving season of his career with 1,101 yards on a career-high 89 receptions.

The verticle-stretch likes big blocking TEs so even though we will likely see more of our only pure blocking TE in TE Alex Smith, oh and don't discount TE Ben Watson he is also a decent run blocker, I am thinking that Chud will find a place for someone like TE Jordan Cameron. Why? He played TE at Miami, he came into the league as a TE coach and he is the guy who was behind TE Antonio Gates single best season ever so I believe he will find a spot for TE Jordan Cameron.

WR Greg Little is a big wide receiver who is a much better fit for a WCO as his forte is making yards after catch once he gets the ball in his hands but if you look at what he did this past year AFTER the light turned on and he started to catch balls, he was utilized more as a possesion/chain mover and also at the goal line where his big-body was used. Is Little a great fit in a verticle-stretch? Hell no but he will have a big roll. Heck look at what Joe Jerivicious did in Chud's offense when we scored over 400 points? Joe-J may have been the MVP of that offense. He was the possesion/chain-mover and caught a ridiculous number of third down conversions to keep drives alive. I think WR Greg Little will fill that role in the new offense.

RB Trent Richardson? Forgetaboutit! He should be a monster.

I love the Norv Turner hire because this verticle-stretch offense is tailor made for QB Brandon Weeden who has one of the most natural deep strokes I've ever seen and he can actually complete a short throw, something that Dereck Anderson couldn't do to save his life.

Rookie QBs make their biggest strides from their first to second years. Last year in the WCO Weeden was kept under wraps, hell some games he NEVER attempted ANY deep passes. Weeden and Josh Gordon and someone like WR Travis Benjamin could make huge strides.

Also Chud is someone who is a very hard worker and he is smart enough to hire Norv Turner so he has that sort of wisdom to give the offense over to a solid OC unlike Shurmur who wasn't confident enough to make that call. Chud is from Northern Ohio, grew up a Browns fan, got on TWO different coaching staffs in Cleveland and he has steadily progressed to the point he was considered a HC prospect LAST YEAR.

He's ready for this opportunity and I love the smarts he has displayed in bringing in Norv Turner. Shurmur never showed that sort of smarts and Chud has even before he's coached his first game so he's already one-up in my book and lets be fair to Shurmur. The roster is much better than the one Shurmur took over.

Oh and even if this offense isn't a PERFECT FIT for a vert-stretch its a heck of a better fit than trying to make Brandon Weeden a WC QB and the quarterback fit for the offensive system IS the most important aspect of making the offense work. Don't forget, DA threw for the second most TD passes in club history in a Chudzinski system and he couldn't complete a short pass to save his life. Weeden has completed a ton of short passes since that is the WCO but his forte is the DEEP PASS. This system could be a perfect fit for Weeden so don't be surprised if he makes a huge developmental leap this upcoming season.

 
When DA became a Pro Bowler he got there because he threw for a ton of yards and touchdowns. Late in that season his weakness was exposed, he couldn't complete the short pass.The next year what happened?Um, Donte Stallworth stepped on the achillies of Braylon Edwards and ripped it up in training camp, TE Kellen Winslow was injured, DA got concussed and the QBs suffered a series of injuries and we wound up that season starting a street free agent, on the road, in Pittsburgh. Basically everything that could have gone wrong did but specific to QB Dereck Anderson, he COULDN'T COMPLETE THE SHORT PASS. His weakness was his weakness but DA never would have made it to the Pro Bowl without Chud as his OC and that vert-stretch offense which fit his big arm but wasn't a perfect fit for him because he simply couldn't check-down or if he did, he couldn't complete the short pass.Think DA's big arm in a vert-stretch but instead of Braylon Edwards and his issues we have WR Josh Gordon filling the deep speed role. Instead of elder statesman Joe Jerivicious as the third-down go-to chain-mover we have WR Greg Little who has more speed than Joe-J ever had and can actually get YAC. Something Joe would confess was his weakest point. We don't have a Kellen Winslow at TE but Ben Watson is healthier and is consistent and better than many seem to know. RB Jamal Lewis was solid that big year in Chud's system but he wasn't in his prime as RB Trent Richardson should be completely healthy next year and he should be the focus point and star of this offense. Also that O-line wasn't nearly as, young, strong, talented, and consistent as the Browns current offensive line.This could be an offense that will take root and be around for a long time.The only guy who definitely looks on the outs is QB Colt McCoy. I just do not see him fitting in anywhere in this offense. He lacks the size and arm. I like Colt very much as a team player so they might find a spot as a backup but honestly he's got no role in this system.

 
'CalBear said:
Cleveland plus Norv Turner. Maybe they're trying to get northern Ohio to undergo gravitational collapse from a critical mass of suckage.
Because Norv Turner has never had any success as an OC :rolleyes:
 
Most interesting thing to me re: Chuds is how important the TE has been. He values the position like few others, and so with this being a great TE class in the draft, you have to like the Browns chances of trying to secure an impact playmaker at the TE position.

 
A huge downgrade from Chip Kelly. Not sure this is really the direction I would have went considering the other coaches out there. Personally I like Horton and Marrone a heck of a lot more. The team that lands Horton will be a lucky team.

 
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A huge downgrade from Chip Kelly. Not sure this is really the direction I would have went considering the other coaches out there. Personally I like Horton and Marrone a heck of a lot more. The team that lands Horton will be a lucky team.
Chip Kelly never coached in the NFL in ANY capacity.Chip Kelly wasn't serious about coaching in the NFL since he backed out of coaching the Bucs last year AFTER making a verbal commitment and this year he used, Buffalo, Cleveland, and Philly.Basically the guy has become a joke to people who are SERIOUSLY looking to hire someone who actually WANTS to coach in the NFL and don't want their egos stroked or want to be used to get some well healed college 'booster' to pass them a few bucks under the table. The guy is already facing NCAA restrictions so he can't color inside the lines in the little leagues. Chip Kelly made zero sense to me as a hire for the sort of roster the Browns have. If they hired Kelly they would be hiring his system and the current Browns roster had no QB to run a zone-read-spread. Brandon Weeden said he couldn't run that system and he's right, he can't run that system but he is a perfect fit for a verticle-stretch offense.Bradon Weeden wasn't a good fit as a WCO QB but he is for a vert-stretch offense. He IS a vert-stretch QB and a perfect fit for a Norv Turner-Rob Chudzinski offense.That alone makes the Chudzinski hire logical and a smart move since their isn't pressure to land a QB with the top pick just so they would have someone to fit into a Chip Kelly offensive system. Chip Kelly also has no NFL coaching experience and no OC in the league really knows his system so he likely would have come in and been his own OC. NO! NO! NO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!Not again, not another rookie HC who also has double-duty as his own OC and add he has ZERO NFL experience but the cherry on top is the guy wasn't serious about making a commitment to coach in the NFL. Good riddance to bad rubbish IMHO. You can have your Chip Kelly Sci-boi. I'll take Chud and instead of blowing out top pick on a QB we can land a LB or take BPA and possibly fill another need.
 
How could you say with any certainty that Chuds isn't as good as Chip Kelly, Doug Marrone or Ray Horton?That makes no sense to me, none of them have been NFL head coaches and are all high risk/high reward hires.

 
How could you say with any certainty that Chuds isn't as good as Chip Kelly, Doug Marrone or Ray Horton?That makes no sense to me, none of them have been NFL head coaches and are all high risk/high reward hires.
Don't feed the trolls.My take on Chelly VS Chud is knowing how Chipper has danced the NFL two-step for two years and hasn't found a pardner that he isn't serious and now his cred has taken a hit IMHO.Also for the Browns, Chud's system is a perfect fit for Weeden whereas Weeden stated, albeit jokenly, that he couldn't run that system. He was joking but he can't run any sort of option offense. He wasn't a great fit as WCO QB but he's hand-glove for a vert-stretch.If people luv Chip, let em.We've got Chud, time to move on and I think we'll like what he does with the offense.
 
'CalBear said:
Cleveland plus Norv Turner. Maybe they're trying to get northern Ohio to undergo gravitational collapse from a critical mass of suckage.
Because Norv Turner has never had any success as an OC :rolleyes:
2001: San Diego Chargers, 5-11, no offensive stats in the top 10 despite having Tomlinson. 2002-2003: Miami Dolphins, joined an 11-5 team which went 9-7 and 10-6 with Norv as OC, offense ranked #15 and #24 in yardage, missed the playoffs both years (with the #3 defense in 2002)2006: San Francisco, #26 offense.The only success Turner has had as offensive coordinator was with the 1991-1993 Cowboys, who happened to have a HOF QB, HOF RB, HOF WR, and dominant offensive line. And a head coach who is a better offensive mind than Norv Turner.
 
'CalBear said:
Cleveland plus Norv Turner. Maybe they're trying to get northern Ohio to undergo gravitational collapse from a critical mass of suckage.
Because Norv Turner has never had any success as an OC :rolleyes:
2001: San Diego Chargers, 5-11, no offensive stats in the top 10 despite having Tomlinson. 2002-2003: Miami Dolphins, joined an 11-5 team which went 9-7 and 10-6 with Norv as OC, offense ranked #15 and #24 in yardage, missed the playoffs both years (with the #3 defense in 2002)2006: San Francisco, #26 offense.The only success Turner has had as offensive coordinator was with the 1991-1993 Cowboys, who happened to have a HOF QB, HOF RB, HOF WR, and dominant offensive line. And a head coach who is a better offensive mind than Norv Turner.
Your joking right? Jimmy Johnson was a defensive coordinator before he became a head coach. Norv Turner ran the Cowboys offense. Norv had the #1 offense as recently as 2010. Yeah he was the head coach, but he ran the offense.
 
A huge downgrade from Chip Kelly. Not sure this is really the direction I would have went considering the other coaches out there. Personally I like Horton and Marrone a heck of a lot more. The team that lands Horton will be a lucky team.
Why am I not shocked that you're ####ting on the Browns, AGAIN...
 
'PlasmaDogPlasma said:
'flc735 said:
bad for cameron/watson
Wasn't really bad for Antonio Gates or Jay Novacek
Which merely goes to prove that the assumptions about Turner as OC are a bit optimistic. Didn't anyone notice SD's struggles this season? They were putrid at times. Even though Norv as HC, he still has to answer for at least part of that failure. Now, I think Richardson > Matthews. But after that, it's a wash. Cleveland will be younger than San Diego was this past year, but there's something to be said for veteran experience too.I'm all full of "meh" on these hires. I think Chud is getting credit for Cam Newton being a unique athlete in 2011. For all his brilliance, the team sure didn't pick up in 2012 where it left off in 2011. Is Chud as good as the Panthers were in 2011 or is he the blind squirrel that got handed a nut by the personnel department in the 2011 draft?
 
How could you say with any certainty that Chuds isn't as good as Chip Kelly, Doug Marrone or Ray Horton?That makes no sense to me, none of them have been NFL head coaches and are all high risk/high reward hires.
Chud wasn't their first choice. Of the people that are left over he wouldn't be mine (but then again, Im not a GM...nobody who posts here is). Its just an opinion. Clearly nobody can say with any certainty any coach hire is better than another. We all just give an opinion.
 
'PlasmaDogPlasma said:
'flc735 said:
bad for cameron/watson
Wasn't really bad for Antonio Gates or Jay Novacek
Which merely goes to prove that the assumptions about Turner as OC are a bit optimistic. Didn't anyone notice SD's struggles this season? They were putrid at times. Even though Norv as HC, he still has to answer for at least part of that failure. Now, I think Richardson > Matthews. But after that, it's a wash. Cleveland will be younger than San Diego was this past year, but there's something to be said for veteran experience too.I'm all full of "meh" on these hires. I think Chud is getting credit for Cam Newton being a unique athlete in 2011. For all his brilliance, the team sure didn't pick up in 2012 where it left off in 2011. Is Chud as good as the Panthers were in 2011 or is he the blind squirrel that got handed a nut by the personnel department in the 2011 draft?
SD struggled this past season? Was it because Norv Turner forgot to coach or could the injuries to Mathews and Vincent Brown and Antonio Gates or the continuing struggles of Phil Rivers and the fact that San Diego lost Vincent Jackson and no-one really stepped up have anything to do with it? Nah, it was Norv Turner. Even though his offense was #1 in the NFL two years ago and he's widely respected as a solid OC he is solely responsible for SD offensive struggles last year, forget about his coaching career and do not ever look at injuries or guys getting old and simply failing, blame it on Norv.

Also the Browns are better at RB with Trent Richardson and all accross the offensive line and at the WR position and now that Gates is on his last hurrah I'd take Ben Watson over him right now and if Phil River's continues to struggle then I'd prefer Brandon Weeden's upside over him basically meaning every position on the Browns offense is better or holds more upside than the Chargers at this point in time.

Also this morning on ESPN's FOOTBALL TODAY radio podcast they gave their takes on the Browns hiring of Rob Chudzinski and they were very very high on this hire.

My link

Go to the 30:50 point of the pod cast to hear Ross Tucker begin by saying.

ROSS TUCKER:

I really, REALLY like this move for the Cleveland Browns and this is something I’m gonna put on Twitter @RussTuckerNFL but I’ve had rival coaches and coaches who work with this guy. They’ve been singing his praises to me for years. I mean at least ten years. I’ve been hearing about this guy, nah that’s an exaggeration. Seven years, I’ve been hearing about this guy.

Remember, he was the offensive coordinator I guess its five six years ago now when the Cleveland Browns went ten and six. He got Dereck Anderson into the Pro Bowl.



I think he did a fantastic job with Cam Newton last year and even helping him recover this year. I had heard in training camp that Cam Newton was a different guy from a work ethic standpoint. I don’t think the slow start… I’m not putting that on Chud based on several people.

I just know this. If that many coaches have unprompted over the years have told me how good this guy is that says A LOT to me. I think this is a good hire for the Browns.

MATT WILLIAMSON:

Yeah I do too and… and I was on staff with Chud with the Browns, what was that nine years ago or so? Ah um Butch Davis hired me. Butch Davis was the head coach of the Browns and obviously he made his bones at the U. And uh Chud was one of his guys at the U, brought him into the NFL with him at the point.

He was a young up-and-coming coach. He was a tight ends coach with Cleveland which if people don’t know isn’t the most prestigious job. I mean its kinda like … ah you go from quality control guy to tight end guy then you move up to receiver guy then quarterback guy or whatever but he was a new young coach at that time. We had just drafted Kellen Winslow who he was coaching at the U so he had all kinds of familiarity of what we were doing at the time ah heavy University of Miami ties, all of that.

But you could tell right away that he was well respected by older coaches on staff you know Butch. Chuck Pagano was our defensive back coach at the time those guys all really looked up to Chud who, you know, nine years ago was a young coach in the league and I’ve really followed his career since. And, and he’s exceptional. He’s bright, he’s a good person and I think he’s a very good fit schematically.

I mean uh you know you were talking about, a lot of people were talking about Chip Kelly bringing the spread and all of that. I really did not want to see that happening in Cleveland because for the first time in forever I look at the Cleveland offense and say.

They have something here. They have a line, they have a power running game, they have some downfield threats. They actually have a quarterback with a big time arm who can cut the Cleveland elements which has been something they haven’t had in forever with McCoy and Garcia which is something that they haven’t had in that town.

So that’s what Chud want’s to do. He wants to throw downfield and he’s turned Newton into much more than an option guy. I mean I thought he was very impressive with the Carolina staff an in particular with what Chud did throughout this past year because Newton came into the league much like an RG III type situation they ran all of that option, that read option and uh they made the transition into the NFL very easy and that is great coaching. But then they took the next step about halfway through the season when they told Newton. ‘We need to make you into a pocket passer, a downfield guy.’

He made that transition very well and that bespeaks coaching and that is what they need to do in Cleveland run a traditional power running game and take shots deep and I think Chud will be great at that. I’m sure he’ll have a learning curve with calling time outs and head coaching duties but he’s bright and I don’t have any doubts that he’ll make good on that.
Added to that is a key element by a piece by Tony Grossi of ESPN.My link

... Chudzinski’s star really rose in the 2007 season, when he parlayed Derek Anderson’s big arm into a high-wire pass offense with Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow. The Browns scored 402 points and amassed 5,621 yards of offense – third-best in both categories in franchise history.

The Browns went 10-6, missing the AFC playoffs on tiebreakers. It was the only season in the younger Lerner’s 10-year stewardship in which the Browns did not lose 10 or more games.

Lerner rewarded his top men with big contract extensions. Chudzinski, Anderson, Crennel and Savage all received new deals, but Chudzinski was given the longest of all of them – four years. They did it to stave off a request by the Baltimore Ravens to interview Chudzinski for their vacancy at head coach.
What does all of this mean?It means that Rob Chudzinski was noticed from the first day he held an NFL position. He was respected by older and much more experienced NFL coaches. He quickly rose thru the ranks and was inked to a longer extension than his head coach and GM just to prevent a divisional rival from interviewing him as a HC way back in 2007 so not only was he interviewed for head coachin positions last year, he was being eyed for a HC position five years ago.

 
'MAC_32 said:
'flc735 said:
'Bracie Smathers said:
Well Norv Turner is the OC, not Chud.

Here's a rundown of how Norv Turner's offense operates.

Its a virtical-stretch, think old-school 'air Coryell' Sid Gillman.

This is from a few years back when Norv was coaching for the Raiders.

My link

Football 101 > Coryell Offense

The Basics of the Coryell Offense

by Edweirdo. Thanks Eye_Patch for the info on Sid Gillman!

posted on 2005/05/05

Raiders head coach Norv Turner runs an offensive system known as the Coryell offense, which Don Coryell devised and brought to the NFL as head coach of the San Diego Chargers in the late 1970s. Simply put, the Coryell offense is the antithesis of the West Coast offense ("WCO"). In recent years, the explosive offenses of the Rams and the Chiefs have brought the Coryell offense back into the spotlight of the NFL. This article discusses:

1.How the Coryell offense differs from the West Coast offense

2.A brief history of the Coryell offense

3.What are the personnel requirements for the Coryell offense

4.What are the advantages of the Coryell offense

How the Coryell offense differs from the West Coast offense

The WCO has the following characteristics:

•It is a "ball-control" offense, predicated on the ability of the QB to achieve a high completion percentage

•The receivers often run precise short-to-intermediate routes and a lot of crossing routes and slants. The receivers are expected to pick up yards after the catch

•The QB takes more 3- and 5-step drops as opposed to 7-step drops

•When the QB and WRs are on the same page, it can be difficult to disrupt the rhythm of the offense

•It relies heavily on the receiving skills of backs coming out of the backfield

The Coryell offense has the following characteristics:

•It is a "stretch-the-field vertically" offense, predicated on the complementary effects of throwing deep and running the football

•The receivers often run intermediate-to-long routes

•The QB takes more 5- and 7-step drops

•It emphasizes maximum pass protection, to protect the QB until the receivers get open downfield

•It is committed to the power running game. The running game opens up opportunities for big downfield completions, and vice versa. Mike Martz, in an interview with Dr. Z of CNN/SI said:

That's another thing that's critical to the system. Power running. You've got to be able to run the ball when you go to a three-wide receiver set, and you've got to run with power. By that I mean behind zone blocking, which is a big departure from the San Francisco system. Theirs was man-blocking, with a lot of cut-blocks and misdirection. Ours is straight power. Not many people realize this, but if we hadn't have gotten Marshall we were prepared to go with another excellent zone-blocking runner, Robert Holcombe. It takes a certain type, a guy who can run with power, who's good at picking his way through. Stephen Davis is doing that in Washington now, and that's a big reason why their offense is so good...The good thing about zone-block running is that you can keep pounding away. You don't have the negative yardage plays.

A brief history of the Coryell offense

The Coryell offense didn't start with Coryell. Sid Gillman was the innovator of the vertical game back in the 1960s. Many members of Gillman's staff, including Al Davis and **** Vermiel have been adherents to the vertical game ever since. Coryell adapted Gillman's ideas into the system that now bears his name.

There are several notable implementers of the Coryell offense in the league today: Joe Gibbs in WAS, Mike Martz in STL, Norv Turner in OAK, and **** Vermeil in KC. Many of these coaches are connected in the coaching tree, starting with Gillman or Coryell. Gibbs served on Coryell's staff in SD and brought the system to Washington. Turner served on Ernie Zampese's staff on the LA Rams and brought the system to Dallas. Martz served on Turner's staff in Washington.

What are the personnel requirements for the Coryell offense

The personnel requirements are significantly different between the Coryell O and WCO. In the Coryell O:

QBs must be able to throw deep with accuracy. They are typically pocket passers with big arms. Examples of solid Coryell QBs are the Cowboys' HOFer Troy Aikman (6-4 220) and former Ram Kurt Warner (6-2 200)

WRs must be able to stretch the field. The name of the game is speed and separation. By contrast, the WCO favors physical possession receivers, such as Jerry Rice. Examples of solid Coryell WRs are the Rams' Torry Holt (6-0 195) and the Raiders' Randy Moss (6-4 205)

•RBs carry a heavy load and tend to have good power. Norv Turner in particular has preferred to feed the ball to a feature back (Emmitt Smith in DAL, Terry Allen in WAS, Stephen Davis in WAS, LaDainian Tomlinson in SD, Ricky Williams in MIA). So the Raiders went out in FA and signed former Jet LaMont Jordan (5-10 230) to a big 5 year / $27.5 MM deal to be that workhorse RB. Examples of solid Coryell RBs are former Redskin John Riggins (6-2 230), former Cowboy Emmitt Smith (5-9 215), and the Chiefs' Priest Holmes (5-9 213)

TEs tend to be strong blockers; they are relied upon heavily in pass protection and in paving the way for RBs in the ground game. In general, the WCO favors TEs with receiving over blocking skills (e.g. the Jets' Doug Jolley) whereas the Coryell O favors the reverse, although obviously a TE who can do both can fit into any system. This explains, in part, why 2004 rookie 7th rounder Courtney Anderson (6-6 270), with his size and ability to run-block, was able to leap-frog former 2nd rounders Doug Jolley (6-4 250) and Teyo Johnson on the Raiders depth chart

OL tend to be big and physical compared to their WCO counterparts. Some WCO teams have gotten by with smaller OL (e.g. the Niners in the 1990s and the Broncos of recent years), because the linemen are able to block at angles and only need to maintain pass protection for a short period of time. Coryell OL are road graders in the running game, but they must also pass protect on drawn-out deep passing plays. Examples of solid Coryell OLs are the Cowboys' massive (at the time) championship OL in the 1990s and the Chiefs' OL in recent years

Arguably the best Coryell offense ever was the Rams' "Greatest Show on Turf" team in 1999. They had an awesome set of wideouts (Bruce, Holt, Hakim, and Proehl), a strong OL, and Faulk and Warner in their prime.

The Raiders have assembled the ingredients to run the Coryell system effectively: a strong-armed accurate deep thrower in Collins; 4 excellent deep threats with Moss, Porter, Curry, and Gabriel at WR; an explosive power back in Jordan; a power-blocking TE in Anderson; and a big, talented offensive line.

What are the advantages of the Coryell offense

Run correctly, it is simply an explosive offense, capable of big plays at any time. It puts opposing defenses in a bind: does the defense defend the deep ball, thereby weakening its run support, or does it defend the run, thereby leaving itself vulnerable to big plays downfield?

There are some folks, including Al Davis, who feel that defenses have caught up with the WCO, esp with systems such as the Dungy Cover 2 defense. In Dungy's system, the WRs are bumped from their timing routes by press coverage by the CBs, the LBs are fast and have strong coverage ability, and the DL is quick and disruptive. These elements all counter strengths of the WCO.

Norv Turner's strong experience and belief in the Coryell system played a huge part in his landing the head coaching gig for the Raiders in 2004. The vertical game is back in Oakland, baby!

Reader Comments

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:thumbup: sonds like norv is good for trent, gordon and weeden

bad for cameron/watson

and really bad for little
Accuracy and 5-7 step dropbacks are not good things for Weeden.
to my knowledge, the only thing weeden can do well is throw deep. if not, what would you say it the ideal system for him?
 
'PlasmaDogPlasma said:
'flc735 said:
bad for cameron/watson
Wasn't really bad for Antonio Gates or Jay Novacek
Which merely goes to prove that the assumptions about Turner as OC are a bit optimistic. Didn't anyone notice SD's struggles this season? They were putrid at times. Even though Norv as HC, he still has to answer for at least part of that failure. Now, I think Richardson > Matthews. But after that, it's a wash. Cleveland will be younger than San Diego was this past year, but there's something to be said for veteran experience too.I'm all full of "meh" on these hires. I think Chud is getting credit for Cam Newton being a unique athlete in 2011. For all his brilliance, the team sure didn't pick up in 2012 where it left off in 2011. Is Chud as good as the Panthers were in 2011 or is he the blind squirrel that got handed a nut by the personnel department in the 2011 draft?
well, the reason norv had so many chances as a head coach is because of his success as an OC. now he is back to what he is best at.SD wasn't very good on offense this year, but i think that has more to do with rivers, gates, and their o-line playing poorly, plus the loss of vjax. they had a good offense in the past under the same offensive system.most of us thought cam would bust coming in to the league. i think chud deserves a little credit for his success.
 
I like the hire, package deal of Norv and Chud, and all. I think it will be a better offense, although I think that would have been the case even had they stayed put because TRICH will be healthy again, Gordon continues to grow, etc. If anything, I guess this could hinder Gordon because now he goes to a new system (although he made good strides this year after being away from the game for a while).What are these speculations of switching to a 3-4? Where is that coming from?

 
What are these speculations of switching to a 3-4? Where is that coming from?
Something Mary Kay Cabot floated yesterday in a radio interview as the Browns being open to it, not closing any doors before an interview even happens. It went viral. Today, she reported it as "likely" in her Chud article. Now it's completely out of control.The brass have said no decision has been made and won't be until a DC is found. :shrug:
 
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What are these speculations of switching to a 3-4? Where is that coming from?
Something Mary Kay Cabot floated yesterday in a radio interview as the Browns being open to it, not closing any doors before an interview even happens. It went viral. Today, she reported it as "likely" in her Chud article. Now it's completely out of control.The brass have said no decision has been made and won't be until a DC is found. :shrug:
Thanks for the info :)
 
'Bracie Smathers said:
The TE position WILL be utilized in any Chudzinski offense. From MKC's article about the Chud hiring.

As the Chargers' tight ends and assistant head coach in 2010, Chudzinski helped San Diego rank first in the NFL in total offense with an average of 395.6 yards per game and second in scoring with an average of 27.6 points per game.

Tight end Antonio Gates excelled during both of Chudzinski's two-year stints on the Chargers' staff (2005-06, 2009-10). Gates made his seventh consecutive Pro Bowl in 2010, one year after producing a career-high 1,157 yards. In 2005, Chudzinski's first season as San Diego's tight ends coach, Gates registered the only other 1,000-yard receiving season of his career with 1,101 yards on a career-high 89 receptions.

The verticle-stretch likes big blocking TEs so even though we will likely see more of our only pure blocking TE in TE Alex Smith, oh and don't discount TE Ben Watson he is also a decent run blocker, I am thinking that Chud will find a place for someone like TE Jordan Cameron. Why? He played TE at Miami, he came into the league as a TE coach and he is the guy who was behind TE Antonio Gates single best season ever so I believe he will find a spot for TE Jordan Cameron.
This would imply the TE was not utilized in Cleveland which could not be more inaccurate. In Shurmur's two season the Browns were 5th and 6th in the NFL in targets to TE's. Only trailing teams with elite TE's like NE, Dallas, NO and pass happy teams like Detroit.So on one hand I certainly agree Chud likes to utilize his TE's but I can't see this usage increasing with this current crop of TE's. Can you or anyone else? Watson is what he is, a solid aging pro. I'm not seeing it in Cameron. He failed to take a sizable year two leap which most current elite TE's took. He failed the eye test as well. He seems to not be able to seperate and his usage seems confined to short/intermediate routes and he's shown little to no YAC ability. He's shown little to no ability to be a red zone threat. I've read tweets by Grossi that he's yet to demonstrate the physicality needed at the position.

My guess is the Browns will continue to utilize the TE position similar to the usage we saw with Shurmur and neither Watson or Cameron are going to see statistical spikes. I think for the TE position on this team to actually produce big numbers they would need to bring in someone else to play the position. I would say that if a player like Keller or Finley end up on the Browns I'd probably bump up their stock a decent amount.

 
Did we really need an article to tell us Chud uses TEs? Winslow had 149 targets in 2007 (his best season). Greg Olsen had his best season last year. FWIW, I'm not really on the Jordan Cameron train either. He has some talent, but it's hard for me to imagine him ever being a starter.

 
'Bracie Smathers said:
The TE position WILL be utilized in any Chudzinski offense. From MKC's article about the Chud hiring.

As the Chargers' tight ends and assistant head coach in 2010, Chudzinski helped San Diego rank first in the NFL in total offense with an average of 395.6 yards per game and second in scoring with an average of 27.6 points per game.

Tight end Antonio Gates excelled during both of Chudzinski's two-year stints on the Chargers' staff (2005-06, 2009-10). Gates made his seventh consecutive Pro Bowl in 2010, one year after producing a career-high 1,157 yards. In 2005, Chudzinski's first season as San Diego's tight ends coach, Gates registered the only other 1,000-yard receiving season of his career with 1,101 yards on a career-high 89 receptions.

The verticle-stretch likes big blocking TEs so even though we will likely see more of our only pure blocking TE in TE Alex Smith, oh and don't discount TE Ben Watson he is also a decent run blocker, I am thinking that Chud will find a place for someone like TE Jordan Cameron. Why? He played TE at Miami, he came into the league as a TE coach and he is the guy who was behind TE Antonio Gates single best season ever so I believe he will find a spot for TE Jordan Cameron.
This would imply the TE was not utilized in Cleveland which could not be more inaccurate. In Shurmur's two season the Browns were 5th and 6th in the NFL in targets to TE's. Only trailing teams with elite TE's like NE, Dallas, NO and pass happy teams like Detroit.So on one hand I certainly agree Chud likes to utilize his TE's but I can't see this usage increasing with this current crop of TE's. Can you or anyone else? Watson is what he is, a solid aging pro. I'm not seeing it in Cameron. He failed to take a sizable year two leap which most current elite TE's took. He failed the eye test as well. He seems to not be able to seperate and his usage seems confined to short/intermediate routes and he's shown little to no YAC ability. He's shown little to no ability to be a red zone threat. I've read tweets by Grossi that he's yet to demonstrate the physicality needed at the position.

My guess is the Browns will continue to utilize the TE position similar to the usage we saw with Shurmur and neither Watson or Cameron are going to see statistical spikes. I think for the TE position on this team to actually produce big numbers they would need to bring in someone else to play the position. I would say that if a player like Keller or Finley end up on the Browns I'd probably bump up their stock a decent amount.
The information I shared about Norv Turner's verticle-stretch offensive scheme which derives from the old-school Sid Gillman offense that Don Coryell built into 'Air Coryel'. When Turner was hired by the Raiders an article went into detail about his verticle-stretch offense that he will bring to the Browns. This is what that artlce says about how NORV TURNER'S OFFENSIVE SCHEME UTILIZES TIGHT ENDS:My link

TEs tend to be strong blockers; they are relied upon heavily in pass protection and in paving the way for RBs in the ground game. In general, the WCO favors TEs with receiving over blocking skills (e.g. the Jets' Doug Jolley) whereas the Coryell O favors the reverse, although obviously a TE who can do both can fit into any system. This explains, in part, why 2004 rookie 7th rounder Courtney Anderson (6-6 270), with his size and ability to run-block, was able to leap-frog former 2nd rounders Doug Jolley (6-4 250) and Teyo Johnson on the Raiders depth chart
People saw that and came to quick conclusions that the tight end would be phased out of the Browns offense so I brought up the heavy tight end background of our new HC Rob Chudzinski which does NOT follow the Norv Turner concept of how the TE will be used.I came to the conclusion that Chud WILL utilize the TE based on HIS background.

I wasn't comparing Chud or Norv to Shurmur. I was showing the contrast to how a traditional Norv Turner verticle-strech offense uses the TE VS how Chud has heavily used the tight end.

It will be interesting to see how Chud meshes with Turner on the use of the tight end and if bringing up that point irritates someone like Plasma Dog then too bad its a valid point to bring up and I'll do it if he likes it or not.

 
I am real interested in seeing what effect that Turner has on Norwood. I watched Norwood some last year and he certainly showed some potential. If you want some YACs, Norwood could be your boy.

 

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