Bryan Thomas, likely to be re-listed as LB (1 Viewer)

[Rovers]

I mentioned this in JB's LB thread.... but I think it's worth repeating in it's own thread. There has been some dicsussion (and controversy) over Bryan Thomas, NYJ OLB being listed as a DE.

Here is the skinny: Mangini refuses to do a depth chart himself. Something to do with his every job is open philosphy. So, last year it was the Jets' PR dept that wrote the depth chart that went to the NFL, and got published at NFL.com as the Jets official depth chart.

The Jets just hired one of the best NY area beat writers to be the new "Director of Publications", Randy Lange. He will be responsible for any published info coming from the Jets, including the web site... and yes, the depth charts apparently as well. Lange is a savy football guy, and he won't do a 4-3 depth chart.... it will be accurate, which means B Thomas is almost certain to be re-listed as an OLB in the depth chart the Jets will send to the NFL. Don't get suckered by a homer who knows this....

However, Thomas should still be a fairly decent LB for depth in 16 team leagues. In my tackle heavy scoring systems, he was just shy of 170 points, but was improving as the year went on and he learned how to play in the 3-4. Add the fact that DE Coleman will replace Komo VonOldhoffen at DE on the opposite side, Thomas should get more tackle opportunities, since that gaping hole on the other side against the run should be improved.

 

[mtffl2]

i know it's early, but who do you think will be the tweeners this year?

my linemen always has good depth because i cheat the system....

 

[Jene Bramel]

i know it's early, but who do you think will be the tweeners this year? my linemen always has good depth because i cheat the system....

I don't think there'll be any LBs that will be listed as DL this year. Jason Taylor is going to have more LB responsibilities this year, but I don't think it'll help his statline much. Terrell Suggs is considered a LB by some, but he's been established as a DE for IDP purposes for some time. There won't be any teams this year who'll play 3-4 who weren't in that scheme last year. Even the Niners were in some 3-4 at times last year after running a three man front in 2005.There are a few rookies who might be considered tweeners again this year -- Anthony Spencer, Quentin Moses, Jarvis Moss, Lamarr Woodley, maybe even a Lawrence Timmons -- but since there aren't any new schemes to confuse the issue they're all likely to be slotted correctly before camp ends.

 

[lord_helmet]

Could the Jets have received a note, that their inaccurate depth chart makes NFL.com look bad ?

 

[Rovers]

Could the Jets have received a note, that their inaccurate depth chart makes NFL.com look bad ?

Easy there Helmet.... this is about Randy Lange, not Dr Jene Bramel! Now if Jene knows something we don't, and isn't telling... as much as I love Jene's stuff, I don't think he's changing NFL league policies just yet! MFL.... maybe! But that would not affect my IDP leagues... it's still NFL.com that dictates player listings, not MFL.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Could the Jets have received a note, that their inaccurate depth chart makes NFL.com look bad ?

Easy there Helmet.... this is about Randy Lange, not Dr Jene Bramel! Now if Jene knows something we don't, and isn't telling... as much as I love Jene's stuff, I don't think he's changing NFL league policies just yet! MFL.... maybe! But that would not affect my IDP leagues... it's still NFL.com that dictates player listings, not MFL.

Wasn't me. I'll agree with the switch when it's made but as I've said a bunch of times, there's no argument that can be made for fantasy leagues until the depth charts are changed. My "crusade" will be directed at MFL not the NFL or the Jets when/if the depth charts are changed.

 

[lord_helmet]

I didn't name Jene Bramel did I ? Truth is that inaccurate info at the official league site, does make them look unprofessional.

 

[Rovers]

I didn't name Jene Bramel did I ? Truth is that inaccurate info at the official league site, does make them look unprofessional.

There are some things Mangini doesn't give a rat's nasal hair about. Teams aren't required to update their depth charts during the season... and Mangini was preaching hybrid before the season started. Hey, even last year's game books were wrong, showing the Jets starting in a 4-3. Other than IDP FF players, no one cares about the depth chart..... especially the Jets FO. If it were up to the Jets, they would have no depth chart at all, a point you don't seem to get. Mangini doesn't like to annoint starters. He wants every player to compete to start. That shows in the team's first year success, and that is what Jets fans and Mangini care about. The only reason the Jets do one at all is because it's mandated by the NFL. Professionalism in football happens on the field, not at NFL.com. Thankfully, Mangini understands that. He really doesn't care what anyone thinks, much less FF owners!

 

[lord_helmet]

What you don't seem to get is that I realize its because of Mangini, and the post about them getting a note from NFL.com wasnt really serious (thus the laughing smiley).

But.. when all is said and done its entirely possible for the crew at NFL.com to take pride in their job, and I would imagine the Jets hired the Lange guy because they wanted an upgrade in some areas.

 

[Rovers]

helmet, my scoring systems treat DL's the same as LB's. That makes an inaccurate listing not such a big deal. I can start 2 or 3 DL, and 2 or 3 LB. Tackles and sacks are all scored the same way. Since I always start only 2 DL's, and had Kampman, Hali and BT... not such a big deal.

If I were in a league that has a large difference in the way DL's vs. LB's score, then I would insist on some rule set that could deal with inaccurate depth charts... it's not only BT that is a problem. I'm not a fan of that type of scoring system for just this reason. I don't know what the answer to that problem is, short of changing the scoring system. Perhaps some players get designated as "hybrids"? Another tier in the scoring system? That could help, but how do those players get designated? It's an understandably sticky situation.

The Jets were saying they would run a hybrid, and so that is what their depth chart reflected.... but it never happened, they ran 3-4 95% of the time. The depth chart is the least of what Randy Lange was hired to handle.... they have several TV shows, their own web site which is to feature more video content, and everything the Jets put out into the media, print or otherwise.

I expect that the depth chart will show a 3-4, but what if Mangini starts running more 4-3? I don't know if Lange will worry or do much about it. So, the depth chart problem remians, no matter what. It's a FF IDP league specific problem, and one that has to be dealt with on that level I think, not on the NFL level. Now, if the NFL was making more $ on FF, as they tried to run everyone else out of the business, they might pay more attention. I'd rather deal with this sort of issue than to have to pay 3 times what we pay now for league management sites.

 

[Rozelle]

Rovers can you tell me Bryan's contract status? They just did a contract extension with him didn't they?

 

[The Man With No Name]

He's signed through 2011

 

[Rozelle]

He's signed through 2011

Thanks!

 

[massraider]

Eh, easy come, easy go.

I picked up Thomas last summer (Zealots) for $50. And it was specifically because he was still listed at DE. And it was a big difference. He was the #10 DE. His stats were equal to LB55.

If he gets listed as a LB, it's a bummer, but anyone who was lucky enough to have him for a season at DE probably didn't pay too much for him, and knew it coyld change at any moment.

And there's always a few players like that. This year's Thomas could be Jarrett Johnson, currently listed as a DE in BAL, and may get a crack at Adalius' role.

I thought I was slick last year when I bid on Rashied Davis, Chicago CB. By the time I won the auction, he was correctly listed as WR.

 

[lord_helmet]

In my league the scoring system is set up so that all positions have roughly the same value, the main difference between LBs and DL is that LB get 1.5 pts per tackle while DL get 3 pts per tackle.

In this system BT finished 44th OVERALL, just ahead of guys like London Fletcher and Laveranues Coles.

 

[Rovers]

In my league the scoring system is set up so that all positions have roughly the same value, the main difference between LBs and DL is that LB get 1.5 pts per tackle while DL get 3 pts per tackle.In this system BT finished 44th OVERALL, just ahead of guys like London Fletcher and Laveranues Coles.

Based on that, I can easilly understand your objections. In my leagues, a tackle is worth 2 pts, regardless of position. BT was the #7 DL, and the #62 LB if listed as such in my leagues. I think he can break top 40 at LB in my systems next year. In a 16 team league... he still has some value in a start 3 LB line up. I am in one league that I really don't like, because of the scoring system.... a crazy bonus point scheme for multiple sacks.... but it's still the same for all positions. I understand the goal of making all positions equally valuable, but there will continue to be errors that make that sort of scoring system flawed imo. I think I would attack that from a different direction... like having to start a 3-4 or a 4-3 line up. And yes, as someone said, B Thomas is locked up... he's a Jet unless traded for many years.

 

[lord_helmet]

Aside from the position issues I love that league, and we do operate with sets instead of traditional line-ups but even so the minimum number of DL is 3. We have the 3-4, 4-3 and Nickel and we start a full defense of 11 players which does level out the field a little.

I do accept how things are, I just wish someone would step up and rectify his listing. The rule is that the depth chart at NFL.com is the decider so the commish refuse to re-position him manually, which is okay but it won't keep me from voicing my opinion about it.

 

[Rovers]

OK helmet! I give up after this post! Sure, you have every right to voice your opinion on it, without question. Having said that, I think it's fair to say that your opinion is pretty biased based on your league's scoring system. I'd be p-o'd too in that scoring system, but you paint every owner in every league as a border-line cheater, when given your league's sytem, that's probably pretty close to a reasonable assumption. It isn't in most league scoring systems.

Your league and your commish are the ones doing a chit job of managing player listings, not the NFL, not the Jets, not MFL. If I were a commish under that scoring system, I'd change it. Commish's decision. I'd make BT a LB. I don't think it's fair to say the Jets look unprofessional because you don't like the initial depth chart they generated. Being a commish isn't always fun, but it's the job of a commish to make sure it's fair. You're commish simply lacks the balls it takes to do the job. If I were you, that's where I would be complaining. Not here, telling people they lack ethics and other broad band critisisms when it's a league specific BIG issue, in YOUR league. In many leagues, like mine, it just isn't that big of a deal.

I only have BT in one of my 5 leagues. You seem to address your complaints to every other league there is and all BT owners there are, when in fact, it's really your league's owners and commish that deserve that sort of accusation. I would not take any issue with your comments if you restricted your complaints to your own league, but that hasn't been made clear in your posts. In my opinion, you're protestations would carry more weight if you restricted some of those comments towards your league ans your commish, rather than the IDP community at large. Off soap box.

I don't mean to offend here, helmet.... your complaints are very valid within this league you are in.... but much less so as general "all leagues" sort of statements. I'd suggest doing all that is possible within the league to get this issue fixed, because it is a very big issue within YOUR league... not so much in a geneal IDP forum.

 

[lord_helmet]

I certainly didnt mean to offend either, and I have already posted a couple of times that my comment was probably a little harsh. I have done everything possible to get the co-operation from the commish, but he has made his decision so I have no choice but to stop whining about it and respect his authority. The commish has done a VERY good job, keeping everything up to date (auctions, moneypools etc etc.) is no small task. But he is very unflexible changing anything in the rules and I do think this will cause more problems in the future with other players, but thats his decision and as I said I generally respect that no matter what league I'm in. From my personal experience as commish, I'm very open to input but once my decision on something has been made, you better stop giving me grief about it or I will get annoyed. With that in mind my hands are pretty much tied at this point, so my only hope is that someone from the outside will change it (Jets, NFL.com, MFL)

 

[nortobc]

Why would B. Thomas be listed as a OLB? I saw a few Jets games last season and more often than not, Thomas was lined up as a DE in a 3 point stance. To me, that is a DE.

 

[Rovers]

Why would B. Thomas be listed as a OLB? I saw a few Jets games last season and more often than not, Thomas was lined up as a DE in a 3 point stance. To me, that is a DE.

I watch every Jets game at least twice. The Jets line up in a 5-2 95% of the time, and I simply have to disagree.... BT almost never has his hand down. I mean, I have the last 7 games TiVo'd... he is up, but on the LoS in a 5-2 alignment. Even the game book gets it wrong.

 

[massraider]

Why would B. Thomas be listed as a OLB? I saw a few Jets games last season and more often than not, Thomas was lined up as a DE in a 3 point stance. To me, that is a DE.

I watch every Jets game at least twice. The Jets line up in a 5-2 95% of the time, and I simply have to disagree.... BT almost never has his hand down. I mean, I have the last 7 games TiVo'd... he is up, but on the LoS in a 5-2 alignment. Even the game book gets it wrong.

Well, if you'd shut yer pie hole, maybe no one would notice!!(Nervous Thomas owner)

 

[Biabreakable]

I have been shoping Thomas around but I have yet to have anyone accept an offer for him that would justify me giving him up.

At some point the risk of his position being redefined and Thomas losing value is worth keeping over what I can get in return for him.

The best counter offer I have recived is the 3.11 or 35th overall rookie pick in the 2007 draft. I do not have any rookie players ranked highly enough that I have confidence in one of them being more useful than Thomas if his position is not redefined.

So I hold until I either recieve a better offer for him or until he is listed as a Lber. At which point I then have to decide if he will be worth rostering.

The reward if Thomas stays a DE outweighs what I can get in return for him imo so I hold.

 

[Simris]

So what is the latest on this?

I am an owner and have managed to get Osi and have Schobel and Hali as well. So I am wondering what to do with him.

MFL still has him listed as a DL. Can I expect a change come the regular season?

 

[Jene Bramel]

So what is the latest on this?I am an owner and have managed to get Osi and have Schobel and Hali as well. So I am wondering what to do with him.MFL still has him listed as a DL. Can I expect a change come the regular season?

Nearly every "official" depth chart will have him listed as a DL until the charts turn over for the new season. Usually, that means training camp. Historically, MFL has updated their databases by the third week of the pre-season.With Eric Mangini and Co. seemingly being singled out by Roger Goodell's desire to have more accurate depth charts, I think there's a very high likelihood that Thomas gets listed at LB by the beginning of the season.

 

[Rick Blaine]

Not to hijack, but what about Jarret Johnson's status in Baltimore? He is currently still listed as a DL for the same reason, yet it looks like he's filling the OLB left vacant by Adalius Thomas. Any insight?

 

[spec1alk]

 

[spec1alk]

Guys can complain all they want about how his positional listing is inaccurate, but I have no problem abusing a loophole in the system. If you do not like the loophole, then petition your league to change the rules. If they do not want to change, play their game and pick up some of these sneaky guys.

I picked up BT in several zealots leagues (maybe 3-4) for next to nothing. I figure that I got a DL1 out of him for at least 1 year and that more than outweighs what I paid for him. Besides, when he is reclassified as a LB he will probly have value as a LB4 bye week filler.

 

[Tick]

Arizona seems a place to watch for this loophole again this season.

 

[Zoomanji]

Chris Gocong is listed as a DE as well.

He is slotted to play SLB in Philly this year.

Doubt it will be much of an impact but its something to keep an eye on