Bump Up the Titans LB Unit? (1 Viewer)

[Bob Magaw]

bulluck was consistently one of the best OLBs (& LBs overall) for years... thornton had success in IND & a big year in TEN...

bulluck's IDP scoring diminishing seemed to synch with haynseworth emergence as the most dominant defensive force in the league for the past few years...

i could see the titans defense being on the field more & involved in more plays (ie - chances for IDP scoring) in his absence...

& specifically, if more RBs break through to the second & third level, the IDP scoring distribution might be skewed more to the LBs (& to an extent, the safeties) in 2009, relative to last season...

i could see bulluck, thornton & the safeties benefiting... imo, michael griffin is on the cusp of stardom, if he isn't there already...

* its true that another school of thought is that having competent/good DTs in front of LBs isn't necessarily bad... it can free them of blockers & enable to make MORE plays (ray lewis did some of his best work with adams & siragusa in front of him, & is helped by ngata now)... the difference here, & it is one of kind & not just degree... haynesworth was such a one man wrecking crew & playmaker from the DT position that he made TOO many plays... from an actual football standpoint, that is of course what you want, but in terms of IDP implications, it severely blunted bulluck & thornton's tackling opportunities & scoring potential (that might be too simplistic... all the DBs, including the CBs, are solid tacklers, & they may have also contributed to bulluck's scoring falling off a cliff)...

thoughts?

 

[Patsfan39]

bulluck was consistently one of the best OLBs (& LBs overall) for years... thornton had success in IND & a big year in TEN...

bulluck's IDP scoring diminishing seemed to synch with haynseworth emergence as the most dominant defensive force in the league for the past few years...

i could see the titans defense being on the field more & involved in more plays (ie - chances for IDP scoring) in his absence...

& specifically, if more RBs break through to the second & third level, the IDP scoring distribution might be skewed more to the LBs (& to an extent, the safeties) in 2009, relative to last season...

i could see bulluck, thornton & the safeties benefiting... imo, michael griffin is on the cusp of stardom, if he isn't there already...

* its true that another school of thought is that having competent/good DTs in front of LBs isn't necessarily bad... it can free them of blockers & enable to make MORE plays (ray lewis did some of his best work with adams & siragusa in front of him, & is helped by ngata now)... the difference here, & it is one of kind & not just degree... haynesworth was such a one man wrecking crew & playmaker from the DT position that he made TOO many plays... from an actual football standpoint, that is of course what you want, but in terms of IDP implications, it severely blunted bulluck & thornton's tackling opportunities & scoring potential (that might be too simplistic... all the DBs, including the CBs, are solid tacklers, & they may have also contributed to bulluck's scoring falling off a cliff)...

thoughts?

Chris Hope?

 

[Fighting Noles]

I think your basic assumption is correct. I also think the Titans have utilizied a VERY conservative, ball control OFFENSE, which in some games has left the D off the field while the O ground out the clock. The Titans will play a more difficult schedule in '09, which may make that more difficult to accomplish again on the offensive side of the ball & they will also face more 8 man fronts (like they did the second half of '09 - when Bullocks' #'s rebounded somewhat).

The harder schedule & no Haynesworth may also leave the D on the field more often simply because teams get more first downs.

It is definitely something to watch for this year IMO....

 

[-baller]

I would take a look at the games haynesworth wasn't in last season.

 

[Toads]

I would take a look at the games haynesworth wasn't in last season.

TEN is so.o.o.o. deep at the DT position.In the weeks that Haynesworth was held in check, didn't play (week #13 and #17), Jason Jones and Tony Brown were sterling performers.

The premise that the DT position is gonna fall off in TEN is shaky. The LB's won't necessarily have big year's because Haynesworth is gone.....all though it makes for good off-season fodder and discussion.

In DT leagues, both Jones and Brown are great pick ups.

 

[Bob Magaw]

The premise that the DT position is gonna fall off in TEN is shaky.

perhaps the dropoff from haynesworth won't be as great as i supposed, time will tell...but it is a contrarian position that their current DTs are equal to or are even close to him...if jones were to hit the open market today, do you think he would fetch anything close to haynesworth's contract?

 

[stevegamer]

The premise that the DT position is gonna fall off in TEN is shaky.

perhaps the dropoff from haynesworth won't be as great as i supposed, time will tell...but it is a contrarian position that their current DTs are equal to or are even close to him...

if jones were to hit the open market today, do you think he would fetch anything close to haynesworth's contract?

No, but that doesn't mean he's far worse, just that he hasn't shown whether he is or not.I am also in the camp that Titan's DT's are undervalued.

 

[Bob Magaw]

hayneworth was the most dominant two way DL (against run & pass) i've seen since reggie white...

jones is facing long odds to be almost as good...

he did have a big sack game, but specifically in being a multiple interior OL eating & pocket collapsing force which enables his teammates to make more plays, i think the titans are going to miss haynesworth... it is a different question to say he is worth the contract & titans erred in not signing him (i'm aware of a few reasons that would have given them pause), but imo there is no question they will miss him on the field...

 

[corpcow]

Don't forget about Jacob Ford too, he looked good in spots. Personally, I think the young trio of Ford, Brown and Jones will come close to replacing Haynesworth, as dominant as he was at times. Neither of those guys individually may do what Albert did, but as a group I don't think the dropoff will be as much as people think. I certainly wouldn't describe them as a "gaping hole".

Those guys are young and really undervalued. I was really impressed with them in the few games I saw...

 

[Bob Magaw]

Personally, I think the young trio of Ford, Brown and Jones will come close to replacing Haynesworth, as dominant as he was at times...... I certainly wouldn't describe them as a "gaping hole".

not trying to be argumentative... & i do hear what your saying... i'm just sayin, of course only only player gets to replace him on the field AT ANY GIVEN TIME...BTW... i'm not saying that the TEN defense has no chance to be good this year... i just think that it may be more likely the LB & secondary that pick up the slack... also that the DISTRIBUTION of the tackles may be different, with more going to LBs relative to past years when haynesworth there...i still don't see any DL on the roster remotely as disruptive (against run & pass) as haynesworth, so i'll just have to agree to disagree here...also again, not saying hayneworth is "worth" what he got from WAS & TEN made a mistake...

 

[Larry Thomas]

Brown and Haynesworth were both in the bottom of the top ten or so in tackles among DT/NT, no other team had two with 50+ tackles . I'm with Bob, I think some of those runs now get further past the los and the LBs could see a bump in tackle production. Jones and Brown look good last year, no doubt about it. Interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

[Mikey16x]

I think you can bump Tulloch for a few extra tackles. Started to really come on at the end of last season.

 

[Bob Magaw]

i must confess i haven't seen other DTs on the roster much, so my stance is in large part based on inference...

partly where i'm coming from, & i suppose this will be redundant given that i've already compared haynesworth to reggie white, is how special a player & rare a talent i think haynesworth is... not only did i think he was the defensive player of the year, but i thought he should have gotten more consideration than i think he did for OVERALL league MVP...

there seems to be a clear offensive bias for the award... i'm trying to think of the last time it happened, or in fact if it even has (reggie white?)...

so i'm certainly not trying to come off as dissing the titans DTs... they may well prove talented... its just that it would be extraordinary to have even one DT on the roster almost as good as haynesworth (let alone several)...

 

[Bri]

the safeties benefiting... imo, michael griffin is on the cusp of stardom, if he isn't there already...

Chris Hope?

Hope had a better end, Griffin started better. Terrific unit.

Bob,

Running against the Titans DL when it's broken down per position, KVB's spot was one of the worst in the NFL(28th?). He can't continue to do what he did last year. Is he hurt? he ok? is he taking too long to heal up? Are the backups ready to go? Did they get enough practice time? He made whether he's playing or not into a soap opera and other teams picked up on it.

It was an enormous achilles heel for the Titans as they went from one of the better Ds all time(first 5 games) back to reality (next 11 games). About the same time other injuries kicked in and they eventually got desperate for a CB but...

KVB is a star and must play that way.

Titans are very deep at DT with several useful guys but Jones is the potential star(despite the depth chart showing Haye above him). That depth is full of role players and may need a star to lean on. Jones is very important and so is (sleeper?) last year's other rook Hayes who played OK late in the season. Hayes could possibly be KVB's fill-in.

Haynesworth leaving won't show us anything different if teams can run to KVB's side with ease.

Every 3rd game (or close to it)was pretty rough, in between was fabulous

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/oti/2008.htm

 

[Bri]

here Bob

Rushing Defense

not formatting well, columns

Left End Left Tackle Left Guard Up the Middle Right Guard Right Tackle Right End

Avg Gain: 4.41 Avg Gain: 2.97 Avg Gain: 3.77 Avg Gain: 3.09 Avg Gain: 4.84 Avg Gain: 3.24 Avg Gain: 6.72

NFL Rank: 9 NFL Rank: 2 NFL Rank: 13 NFL Rank: 3 NFL Rank: 27 NFL Rank: 8 NFL Rank: 30

this help?

LE 4.41 rank 9

LT 2.97 rank 2

LG 3.77 rank 13

Mid 3.09 rank 3

RG 4.84 rank 27

RT 3.24 rank 8

RE 6.72 rank 30

Allowed 6.72 YPC to KVBs side, enough that it almost makes the rest irrelevant til they fix that. OLB behind KVB or Finnegan will hopefully(or hopefully not) be gold in tackle stats.

 

[Bri]

also FWIW Titans were 2nd in NFL pass D to short right 4.71 yards per pass BUT most passes thrown short right against them than any other team in NFL. 221.

Offense's totally went right on the Titans

 

[Bri]

to go on, generally teams run away from a star not at them unless that pass rusher is too quick with his feet and out of position(as you know) Well KVB is not some young guy out of position, he was just not getting it done.

In a similar vein running RT and RE (opposite Ware) Cowboys were 28th and 29th in NFL rush D. 5th running at Ware.

So what I'm saying is until the Titans (or Cowboys) show that this isn't a weakness, teams will only be running elsewhere to (pretentiously) keep things honest.