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Calvin Johnson (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dniwer
- Start date
Dr. No
Footballguy
Can't say I'd really call this guy a "stud" just based on one big year.
his studliness was predicated on a good developing QB in Stafford chucking him the ball, a talented rookie RB keeping the defense honest, and the team as a whole being better.
Well the QB is hurt, the RB has turf toe, and the team is 0-3 (although they should be 1-2)
Always field the team with the best odds to succeed. Unless you have a terrible bench you should be able to find a suitable replacement until the QB is back and the RB is healthy
his studliness was predicated on a good developing QB in Stafford chucking him the ball, a talented rookie RB keeping the defense honest, and the team as a whole being better.
Well the QB is hurt, the RB has turf toe, and the team is 0-3 (although they should be 1-2)
Always field the team with the best odds to succeed. Unless you have a terrible bench you should be able to find a suitable replacement until the QB is back and the RB is healthy
gary mexico
Footballguy
Its either Calvin or Crabtree for me along side Floyd. I see no other choice... 
The Jerk
Footballguy
I understand the thinking that Calvin is not "stud-worthy" due either to 2009-2010 performance or due to injuries to Stafford/Best or due to being part of the suckitude that is the Lions. Really, I suppose it's all of the above.
Still...
if that Week 1 TD stands, Calvin is tied for 18th (PPR) or 21st (non-PPR) in standard scoring through three weeks, and we're almost certainly not having this discussion.
Calvin has become THE whipping boy -- at least for wide receivers -- in the Shark Pool. How much is deserved and how much is over the top is hard to say. Like most instances, it's a little of both, no doubt. But keep it in mind when you read through any threads concerning Calvin.
I'm doubtful it gets better this week with Green Bay considering the injuries and opponent, so there should be more posts trashing Calvin within 24 hours.
But even without injuries to Stafford, Best and Burleson, who thought Calvin would get off to a strong start with @CHI, PHI, @MIN, @GB to start the year? Those four defenses were 2nd, 5th, 12th and 15th overall in 2009, and 5th, 13th, 17th and 19th against the pass in 2009. All three divisional opponents on the road. Maybe it snowballs from here, but I'm not sure you can count out a player in Calvin's circumstances even if he does nothing tomorrow. If all the other preseason top ten WRs were placed in similar circumstances, I'm pretty confident at least 2 or 3 of them would find themselves at similar levels of production to Calvin.
By the way, where are all the doom and gloom what's wrong with Colston threads? Granted, you're talking about a WR drafted usually a round later than Calvin, but why is the 47th (PPR) and 56th (non-PPR) WR not generating near the angst of Calvin?
Still...
if that Week 1 TD stands, Calvin is tied for 18th (PPR) or 21st (non-PPR) in standard scoring through three weeks, and we're almost certainly not having this discussion.
Calvin has become THE whipping boy -- at least for wide receivers -- in the Shark Pool. How much is deserved and how much is over the top is hard to say. Like most instances, it's a little of both, no doubt. But keep it in mind when you read through any threads concerning Calvin.
I'm doubtful it gets better this week with Green Bay considering the injuries and opponent, so there should be more posts trashing Calvin within 24 hours.
But even without injuries to Stafford, Best and Burleson, who thought Calvin would get off to a strong start with @CHI, PHI, @MIN, @GB to start the year? Those four defenses were 2nd, 5th, 12th and 15th overall in 2009, and 5th, 13th, 17th and 19th against the pass in 2009. All three divisional opponents on the road. Maybe it snowballs from here, but I'm not sure you can count out a player in Calvin's circumstances even if he does nothing tomorrow. If all the other preseason top ten WRs were placed in similar circumstances, I'm pretty confident at least 2 or 3 of them would find themselves at similar levels of production to Calvin.
By the way, where are all the doom and gloom what's wrong with Colston threads? Granted, you're talking about a WR drafted usually a round later than Calvin, but why is the 47th (PPR) and 56th (non-PPR) WR not generating near the angst of Calvin?
Colston gets a pass because he is what people expected. An inconsistent low end wr2 that will have great games and games where he disappears. Calvin owners foolishly took him as their #1. Some sites had him as the #2 OVERALL receiver! I cant ever remember a player with such a lack of career production being drafted so high based on pure athletic ability. The frustration with Calvin is that he seems like wasted potential but will be just good enough to sucker people in next season on Detroits annual "up and coming" offense. I doubt Calvin will ever be on one of my teams as he never makes it to the late 3rd/early 4th round where he belongs until proven otherwise.
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GunslingerEnder
Footballguy
Thought I'd see a co-worker of mine in here.
He's about to cut CJ outright. I think he's crazy.
Seriously though, Calvin just needs the opportunity. It's clear he's talented. For some reason it seems as though Detroit uses him too much as a decoy. Until it's too late and they have to throw to him. That's when I see how good he is.
If they would just throw the ball to him (earlier in the game)he'd definitely be in the talks for top 10.
He's about to cut CJ outright. I think he's crazy.
Seriously though, Calvin just needs the opportunity. It's clear he's talented. For some reason it seems as though Detroit uses him too much as a decoy. Until it's too late and they have to throw to him. That's when I see how good he is.
If they would just throw the ball to him (earlier in the game)he'd definitely be in the talks for top 10.
The Jerk
Footballguy
Fair enough points on Calvin, but I think you're too generous on Colston. Based on the Sept. 3 2010 non-PPR ADP on the subscribers pages, Calvin was ADP overall 16, WR 5, while Colston was ADP overall 29, WR 11. For Colston, that's not a low-end WR2, that's a low-end WR1.It could be I'm completely reading the situation wrong. I'm not so much trying to be a Calvin defender as to point out the overreaction to early season performance. I will admit that I am more willing to give Calvin a pass for 2009 due to his injury. I'll also say that Calvin was worth a much earlier pick than the 4th round when he finished as WR3 in 2008.I suppose my other point is that players do hit rough spots. Roddy White went three games last season with 14 catches for 170 yards -- but they weren't the first three games.Vincent Jackson had a four-game stretch last season where he had 9 catches for 147 yards -- but they weren't the first four games.Steve Smith had 21 receptions for 259 yards through five games for Carolina last year, with no TDs!! Hope you didn't cut him, as he averaged 4.4-72.3-0.7 the remaining ten games he played.Calvin likely was drafted earlier than he should have been this season, but at least some awareness of the Stafford injury and the small sample size so far in 2010 could go a long way to showing some balance in criticism of his fantasy production so far this season.
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Settle down.......Calvin lost his QB, you know, the guy he has been building a chemistry with for the last year and a half. They looked awesome in the preseason together and that is why I drafted him with my 2nd round pick. Even Larry Fitzgerald is mortal when you have a scrub QB throwing to him. You guys are making this too complex imo. If Stafford never had gotten hurt, this thread would have never existed.
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In most of my leagues Colston was going mid to late 3rd. He is not on any of my teams either. Not for lack of talent but the system in N.O. just doesnt support a consistent #1 fantasy receiver. Someone taking Colston at wr11 should definitely be worried now. Even more so than Calvin owners.As for Calvin, that first game non-TD was a perfect example of what he is. A tease. And the Stafford injury is just another reason for people to make excuses for him. No way he should have been drafted over lower ADP receivers such as Austin, R. White, B. Marshall, or D. Jax. His production will eventually live up to his draft spot, the question is not what week but what season that will be. I'll let someone else take that gamble.
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Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
I just watched my old vhs tape I have of Barry Sanders. I haven't watched it in awhile and it reminded me of just how great he was and how much he created on his own.
The Lions are not feeding their Stud. He is most definately a stud, but I believe they don't give Calvin enough opportunities for big plays. I'd grade them very poorly in that department. When Barry got stuffed, did Fontes stop feeding Barry the ball? Of course not, because you knew eventually Barry would break one.
Same thing here, I'd throw the ball up to Johnson all day long. He is a total mismatch for DBs and the Lions don't do squat with him.
Wayne Fontes was laughed at in his day but he knew who his stud was and fed him. The Lions do not feed Calvin enough. If he looks covered deep, he isn't, throw it up to him. If Cpepper didn't throw it up to Moss everytime he looked covered he wouldn't have scored on many of those long Td catches that defenders just couldn't stop.
He's on my bench AGAIN this week, as I have had this feeling all year long. No catches in the 1st half of week 1 and 1 catch for 7 yards in the first half of week 2. What a freaken joke. Trade him if you're afraid to use him.
The Lions are not feeding their Stud. He is most definately a stud, but I believe they don't give Calvin enough opportunities for big plays. I'd grade them very poorly in that department. When Barry got stuffed, did Fontes stop feeding Barry the ball? Of course not, because you knew eventually Barry would break one.
Same thing here, I'd throw the ball up to Johnson all day long. He is a total mismatch for DBs and the Lions don't do squat with him.
Wayne Fontes was laughed at in his day but he knew who his stud was and fed him. The Lions do not feed Calvin enough. If he looks covered deep, he isn't, throw it up to him. If Cpepper didn't throw it up to Moss everytime he looked covered he wouldn't have scored on many of those long Td catches that defenders just couldn't stop.
He's on my bench AGAIN this week, as I have had this feeling all year long. No catches in the 1st half of week 1 and 1 catch for 7 yards in the first half of week 2. What a freaken joke. Trade him if you're afraid to use him.
I'm going to keep playing him in leagues where I own him.
To be honest, I own AJ as my WR1 in a couple leagues, as well, and on a game-by-game basis he hasn't done much better than CJ, yet - I am way more concerned re: AJ than CJ at this point. Moreover, CJ's floor has been about a WR3, and given that all of my leagues are start 3 WRs plus flex, I'll be starting CJ every week until he starts performing worse. There is not a single WR3 out there that I'd start over CJ.
To be honest, I own AJ as my WR1 in a couple leagues, as well, and on a game-by-game basis he hasn't done much better than CJ, yet - I am way more concerned re: AJ than CJ at this point. Moreover, CJ's floor has been about a WR3, and given that all of my leagues are start 3 WRs plus flex, I'll be starting CJ every week until he starts performing worse. There is not a single WR3 out there that I'd start over CJ.
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Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
You say that there isn't a single WR 3 out there that you'd start over Calvin like that is supposed to be impressive or that is a good thing. The guy was an early 2nd round pick and Fbg's No2 WR in nonppr leagues. What does that mean not a single WR 3 anyway, from where you drafted them? Because I am starting my Wr 3 for the 2nd straight week over him and that's Santana Moss.
The biggest problem with Calvin is he never, NEVER, has a 10 catch game or so. Without looking at his game logs, I'd venture to guess he's never caught 10 passes in a game before in his career. Most stud WR's have a few of those a season, or somewhere close. Calvin's normal games are like 3-4 catches unfortunately. Detroit doesn't make enough of an effort to force him the ball, and it seems like whenever they do try to do it, he slips or the QB tosses it to the DB and then they give up on Calvin for the next two quarters.
I agree it's not a "good thing" that makes me overjoyed that I grabbed him whenever possible, but hey, at least CJ is startable. He could be putting up 0 points like MSW, who was drafting as a mid-WR2. He could be injecting his ankle with enriched blood like AJ in hopes of sucking it up against Asomugha for the fourth time. I mean, as "not good" as it's been for the first three weeks for CJ, it could be way, way worse given the injuries to (1) his QB, (2) his second WR expected to draw off coverage, and (3) his RB expected to draw off coverage. So I'm not panicking, yet, given that I can at least start him without wasting the roster spot and ruining my Sunday night, and given that the top 3 upside is still there.When I said "WR3," I meant players that you project, from this point on, to perform like a WR3. Obviously, most of us are projecting Santana Moss to perform like a WR1-2 in that offense as long as he and McNabb can stay healthy. Pretty tall order, which is why you probably won't get much more than a low-end WR2 in trade for Santana Moss.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
I hear you, and it's sad we're talking about a healthy Megatron as a Wr3 heading into week 4.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Roy Williams Version 2.0
coachbobbyfinstock
Footballguy
Roy Williams 2.0? Take it easy..Signed,A Calvin Johnson Owner
dcgangstas
Footballguy
Historically, he's done well vs. the Packers.
I'm cautiously rolling with MegaTron with Hakeem Nicks and Lance Moore.
I'm cautiously rolling with MegaTron with Hakeem Nicks and Lance Moore.
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Neofight
Footballguy
He's likely fishing, but it is poor timing (to say the least) that moe posts this a week after Williams blew up.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
I've gotta stick with him. I could sit him for Gaffney who I did cut MSW for (somebody had to be made an example of ;-) )
Nope, rolling with Calvin and L. Moore this week.
Nope, rolling with Calvin and L. Moore this week.
wolfie
Footballguy
Don't know what some of you expected from Calvin. I, was looking for around 80 catches around 1160 and 9 tds, with upside if things went well, in a ppr about 15.6 points per game, 250 for the year. Things have not went well so far, but it is only 3 games. As bad as it has been, for Calvin, he is averaging 12.4 per game, 8.5, 17, and 11.8. He has been a solid start in ppr, no donuts, not quite putting up the #'s you expect, but not killing your team either. Things can only get better. Starts for me, every week.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
This. People are severely over reacting. He's still almost uncoverable. He's still a beast. He's going to get some points against my Packers. Their defensive backfield isn't great and the Packers will score at least 14 in the first half. I predict 10 targets today at least, probably more like 13. I'd say 8 catches for 105 and .6 touchdown would be reasonable. They are going to be in catch up mode (a mode they actually look to Calvin in) for much of the second half.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I like the thinking here. You can't let the inmates rule the asylum.
But this is a fantasy football board and Matt Stafford DID get hurt. Saying Johnson would still be a stud if Stafford was healthy is as valuable for Johnson owners as saying he'd be a beast if Peyton Manning was his quarterback.
Receivers are Andre, Calvin, Maclin, Mark Clayton and Wallace
Sticking with Calvin. Since its only week 4 he's been an automatic start for me each week. Based on talent (his) alone I hesitate to bench him. This week might have been a thought process but with Andre's ankle, I'm rolling with CJ, Maclin and Clayton. Once Big Ben returns to the Steelers...then I'll have decisions to make each week.
Sticking with Calvin. Since its only week 4 he's been an automatic start for me each week. Based on talent (his) alone I hesitate to bench him. This week might have been a thought process but with Andre's ankle, I'm rolling with CJ, Maclin and Clayton. Once Big Ben returns to the Steelers...then I'll have decisions to make each week.
CaptainHook
Footballguy
its only gonna take one of the long touchdowns he got constantly in season 2 of his career for his stats to look just fine. (where he finished as the #3 fantasy wr why is everyone ignoring this and acting like he hasn't produced on an elite level before)
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
NajehHejan
Footballguy
In my PPR league, Johnny Knox has been patiently standing on the sidelines holding his helmet, ready to go. C'mon, coach, give me a chance, is what Knox has been saying. Knox will have to sit another week, but if he outscores Calvin this week, he gets the nod going forward.
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Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
What an unreasonable/random benchmark. A TEN catch game? You know how many wrs have ever had a ten catch game. Not to mention that CJ has had many games of 7-9 catches too.The chicken little panic around here is HILARIOUS. Go ahead bench CJ, CUT
CJ. Enjoy your DHB, mike wallace's, while cj puts up 15-20 today.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
lt's reiterate that if calvin doesn't get screwed by the refs week 1 this thread doesn't even exists. relax people.I would target him as a buy low, but already have him n 1/2 my leagues.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
meh. fwiw the guys around her that people pay for information have CJ ranked wr8/wr10 this week. Just saying...
That rating seems a bit high for now, but is still a solid WR #2 this week. Unless you are loaded with a few WR#1, CJ should still be in your lineup. I am still playing him, but because I have a flex spot to fill and the bye week doesn't allow a good RB in that spot. I think he will bounce back and have a solid season, but skeptics are right, he does need to start showing better and more consistent numbers.
silentmark
Footballguy
In one league rolling with RMoss, GJennings & LMoore, sorry megatron but as an owner from the gitgo, you've been nothing special and I'm benching you, heh and as we all know he will now blow up this week 
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
I was a former Calvin Johnson owner in a Keep 2 but I dropped him. He had one great season -- that's it. I've said it before and I'll say it again -- if you drafted him within the first three rounds in a redraft league you're going to be sorely disappointed. If you're expecting WR1 numbers in a dynasty/keeper format anytime soon, you're going to be sorely disappointed.
CaptainHook
Footballguy
only one great season...out of two. and it was a really great season.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Out of two?
Calvin screwed himself. As a professional receiver, you need to know the rules. Not that it mattered as he used to ball the break his fall so it was incomplete anyway. Like I said before about Calvin, he is the worst kind of underperformer. The kind that is hard to bench because you know "this week" will be the week he finally goes off. You see that talent and know it just cant be Calvin. Its gotta be the qb. Or the system. Or he is banged up. Could it be that Calvin is an just excellent athlete who will just never be an elite receiver?lt's reiterate that if calvin doesn't get screwed by the refs week 1 this thread doesn't even exists. relax people.I would target him as a buy low, but already have him n 1/2 my leagues.
Runningman
Footballguy
I like how everyoneis going to bench him this week. Guareenteed break out game, thus I ahve to start him one more week.
CaptainHook
Footballguy
why would you count his rookie year when nobody expected him to be fantasy relevant and he was the 3rd or 4th receiver on his team.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
That's a stretch -- no one expected him to dominate his rookie season but he was definitely projected in the WR2/WR3 range.Do any of you honestly believe that Calvin has come close to living up to expectations?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Calvin didn't get screwed by anyone. That was on him. Rules is rules. Even dumb rules.lt's reiterate that if calvin doesn't get screwed by the refs week 1 this thread doesn't even exists. relax people.I would target him as a buy low, but already have him n 1/2 my leagues.
CaptainHook
Footballguy
he was WR3 in his second season with QBs in the discussion of worst starters EVER. that type of production is INSANELY ELITE. Last season; injuries. that #### happens to the best of them.
Its only been 3 games this year and he hasnt even been that bad. Give him some time.
Its only been 3 games this year and he hasnt even been that bad. Give him some time.
⚡DEADHEAD⚡
Footballguy
I do once Stafford is back.
