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Car Seats - Ask Me Anything (1 Viewer)

moleculo

moleculo

Footballguy
Thought this might be fun...

I'm talking about kid car seats - infant carriers, convertibles, combination seats, belt positioning booster seats.

I am an engineer for one of the big manufacturers (I will not say who, please do not guess.  Ask me almost anything, I guess).  I have now taken two seats into production. I've seen pretty much everything from on-site manufacturing in China to sled testing at outside agencies. 

I am fairly well versed in the federal regulation, all though there are a ton of nuances that can trip me up.  I am also a  certified technician, which means I can do ***official*** car seat checks.

These are really interesting products - the severity of crashes is quite violent which makes the design challenging.  And, it is important - properly used car seats save lives.

* Disclaimer: views presented will be by own personal opinion and are not reflective of my company or any regulatory body.  Read at your own risk:  You assume all liability for any advice.

 
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whats the deal with the expiration date now on plastic? is it real or just a ploy to keep people from not buying new seats for their 2, 3 or 15th kid? 

I'm also seeing expiration dates on hockey helmets too...so is this an industry wide thing with protective equipment? 

 
glvsav37 said:
whats the deal with the expiration date now on plastic? is it real or just a ploy to keep people from not buying new seats for their 2, 3 or 15th kid? 

I'm also seeing expiration dates on hockey helmets too...so is this an industry wide thing with protective equipment? 
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From a technical perspective, UV light degrades plastic.  We put in additives to resist, but it will only do so much.  Beyond that, the stated product lifetime drives how much we cycle test the mechanisms: belt buckles, recline mechanism, headrest mech, etc. A 10 year life product will have higher cycle requirements than a 5 year, for example.

I can't speak for hockey helmets.  I can't imagine they have as much UV or cycling as we have.  Still, it's a safety item, not really something you want to chance.

 
glvsav37 said:
I'm also seeing expiration dates on hockey helmets too...so is this an industry wide thing with protective equipment? 
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When I was into motorcycling, we would use a helmet no longer than 5 years. And, after any impacts absorbed, we would replace with a new one. Good ones are pretty expensive too.

At the time, I dug into it and now fully believe that it is not a marketing ploy. While the hard outer shell is often considered the "safety" element, it is really the more sensitive inner material that compresses to absorb shock. This material is not "self healing" and bio-degrades over time even if no impacts are absorbed.

I am guessing that other well made safety helmets are similar.

 
NREC34 said:
How big should a child be when they stop using a booster seat, in your opinion?
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It depends on how the belt fits and the kid fits in the car.  You want the lap portion on the hips/thigh and not abdomen, the shoulder belt should rest across the canter of the chest and not neck/face or shoulder.  The kids legs should be long enough such that the knee is past the edge of the seat and the shins can be vertical when the kid is sitting fully back.

 
How much money does the industry pay the car seat lobbyists in Congress and how have they managed to mandate some kind of child seat or booster until kids reach the age of 24?

 
Ron Swanson said:
At what stage in the development do you test them on actual children instead of dummies? Is it the final step?
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Sorry for the laugh, but I am visualizing testing kids in the crash simulation.

*Note: I'm not really so evil as to laugh at kids crashing. I'm just a little bent.*

I am curious tho, as to how real testing with children is done.

 
Man of Constant Sorrow said:
Sorry for the laugh, but I am visualizing testing kids in the crash simulation.

*Note: I'm not really so evil as to laugh at kids crashing. I'm just a little bent.*

I am curious tho, as to how real testing with children is done.
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Me too. I've pondered it for years and now *poof* on a calm Saturday morning in November one of the world's experts on such things offers to indulge me.

 
Man of Constant Sorrow said:
Sorry for the laugh, but I am visualizing testing kids in the crash simulation.

*Note: I'm not really so evil as to laugh at kids crashing. I'm just a little bent.*

I am curious tho, as to how real testing with children is done.
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Ron Swanson said:
Me too. I've pondered it for years and now *poof* on a calm Saturday morning in November one of the world's experts on such things offers to indulge me.
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After we pass all sled testing with the crash test dummies (que the mmm mmm mmm mmm song), we are technically good to sell in the US.  Before we go to market, we give free seats out to employees and friends to use in exchange for feedback.

No one would put a real kid in that thing.  A 30 mph crash is nasty.

 
NREC34 said:
I like this design
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Ahh, the good old days.  I love it.

ETA: the vehicle bench the child seat is sitting on + that's roughly what the federal gov't requires us to test our product on.  It's terrible.  That's the bench that all car seats in the US are designed around, and not reflective of the current fleet.  Write your Senator and tell them to update FMVSS213!

 
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How much less safe is it actually for kids wearing heavier coats when strapped in? Or is it just mostly a CYA thing from the manufacturers?

How have you guys not figured out a better way to handle that yet?

Taking coats on and off in order to be the most safe may be the most underrated PITA part of having small kids.

 
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RUSF18 said:
How much less safe is it actually for kids wearing heavier coats when strapped in? Or is it just mostly a CYA thing from the manufacturers?

How have you guys not figured out a better way to handle that yet?

Taking coats on and off in order to be the most safe may be the most underrated PITA part of having small kids.
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Based off the sled tests I have run, harness tension is one of the biggest variables with respect to injury criteria.  Real world effects can range from child head impacting driver seat (head excursion) to excessive G load in the head and/or chest.

Winter jackets make it impossible to tighten the harness as much as I want.  Even if you pull tight when you put the kid in, all that padding compresses to nothing on a crash, which is the same effect of a loose harness.  Consider: the kid may see 50G in a crash (federal limit = 60G).  Let's assume a 50 lb kid.  That's 2500 lbs the harness may see.  How much will a jacket compress with 2500 pounds?

I understand it's a PITA.  I don't have a good solution.

 
moleculo said:
Based off the sled tests I have run, harness tension is one of the biggest variables with respect to injury criteria.  Real world effects can range from child head impacting driver seat (head excursion) to excessive G load in the head and/or chest.

Winter jackets make it impossible to tighten the harness as much as I want.  Even if you pull tight when you put the kid in, all that padding compresses to nothing on a crash, which is the same effect of a loose harness.  Consider: the kid may see 50G in a crash (federal limit = 60G).  Let's assume a 50 lb kid.  That's 2500 lbs the harness may see.  How much will a jacket compress with 2500 pounds?

I understand it's a PITA.  I don't have a good solution.
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This article just popped up on my feed:

“Put your child in the car seat with (a heavy coat) on and secure them with the harness. Then, without loosening the harness, take the child out, take the snow suit off, and put just the child with their normal clothing back in the seat and secure the chest clip. You will see how loose that harness now is on the child’s body and how much movement would be able to happen in a crash event.”

 
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I saw one question about expiration dates, but i am still so skeptical of expiration dates and the need to update models like every year. Can you explain to me in like 5 sentences how every 2 years a new car seat model comes out so we need to buy that one, or why we can't just buy the model from last year. 

I do enjoy the answer about the plastic and the UV rays, much easier tossing money around if it at least makes sense

 
modogg said:
I saw one question about expiration dates, but i am still so skeptical of expiration dates and the need to update models like every year. Can you explain to me in like 5 sentences how every 2 years a new car seat model comes out so we need to buy that one, or why we can't just buy the model from last year. 

I do enjoy the answer about the plastic and the UV rays, much easier tossing money around if it at least makes sense
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The standard that all US seats are tested to hasn't changed meaningfully in well over a decade.  That means, today's products are just as safe as products from 5-10 years ago, provided old seat is not expired, had not been in a crash, and seats are installed correctly.

Advancements in recent years are related to capacity (which I think is ridiculous), ease of use, and bells/whistle type features.

By capacity, I mean 30 pounds in an infant carrier - no one is carrying a 30 lb kid in an infant carrier, but people would rather buy one rated for 30 lbs than one rated for 20 lbs.  Or, more recently. 50 lbs rear facing. Really?  Are there any kids 50 lbs still rear facing?  It's crazy, but that's where the market is going.

TL/DR: last year's models are fine.

 
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