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Chris Wesseling Dynasty Rank: Wide Receivers (1 Viewer)

JohnnyU

Footballguy
Tier One1. Larry Fitzgerald, Cardinals | Age: 27.0 – The best receiver in football has been a lock for double digit touchdowns and 95+ receptions every season. Make no mistake, a Kurt Warner retirement would hurt Fitz's 2010 value – but perhaps not as much as one would think. Fitz averaged 82.4 yards and 5.7 receptions in the seven games he and Matt Leinart played together during Leinart's rookie season. He's averaged 84.2 yards and 6.3 receptions in the 59 games Warner has started the past five seasons. As long as he can continue to get into the end zone at least 10 times per season, Fitzgerald will remain a fantasy difference maker.2. Andre Johnson, Texans | Age: 29.2 – Everything you want in a Dynasty receiver except double digit touchdowns. A man amongst boys, physically dominating opposing corners, Johnson gets open down field even against double coverage. Though he's listed ever so slightly behind Fitzgerald here, it would be hard to find fault with a No. 1 ranking.3. Calvin Johnson, Lions | Age: 25.0 – How many receivers can say they were triple covered this season? Calvin is the number one Dynasty buy of the offseason, and the savvy fantasy leaguer will throw out an offer ASAP with the knee injury and the production-draining performances of Drew Stanton and Daunte Culpepper fresh in his owner's mind.Tier Two4. Reggie Wayne, Colts | Age: 31.10 – Peyton Manning's number one receiver has finished in the Top-6 in fantasy points in three of the past four seasons. The dynamic duo should be a lock for similar production over the next three-to-four years until both players begin to fade.5. Vincent Jackson, Chargers | Age: 27.8 - The leap has been made. Already unstoppable on deep balls and in the red-zone heading into the season, V-Jax flashed signs that he can take over as a possession receiver as well. He's simply too big and too fast for even the best cover corners to contain.6. Miles Austin, Cowboys | Age: 26.2 – Boasting a career rate of one touchdown for every seven times he catches the ball, Austin rivals DeSean Jackson as the best after-the-catch receiver in the NFL. Only Andre Johnson scored more points once Austin hit the starting lineup, and Tony Romo's No. 1 receiver has potential to be a double-digit TD scorer for the next five-to-six seasons. He's a monster.7. Roddy White, Falcons | Age: 28.10 – In becoming the first player in franchise history to record 80 catches and 1,100 yards in three consecutive seasons, White also finished as a Top-7 fantasy receiver for the second straight year and Top-15 for the third straight. White has emerged as one of the best route runners in the NFL, and he's terrific after the catch with his double moves.8. DeSean Jackson, Eagles | Age: 23.9 - The best open-field wide receiver in the NFL? Giving Chris Johnson a run for his money as the most electrifying player in the league, Jackson has to be considered a Top-10 Dynasty receiver due to his unique talent. The bottom line is he's always open and corners can't handle his speed.Tier Three9. Marques Colston, Saints | Age: 27.3 – The hulking Colston has an obscene catch radius, and Drew Brees trusts him implicitly to come down with the ball in heavy traffic. One minor concern: Robert Meachem's second-half emergence led to a decrease in Colston's consistency, as he caught more than five passes just twice in the second half of the season with Brees spreading the wealth. 10. Greg Jennings, Packers | Age: 27.0 – There's no question that his early-season numbers were adversely affected by the O-Line woes, forcing Aaron Rodgers to get rid of the ball before Jennings could streak down field. Jennings may not be quite as ridiculously talented as several receivers listed below, but Aaron Rodgers provides ideal stability. Buy low this offseason.11. Sidney Rice, Vikings | Age: 24.0 – Ranked with the who's who of elite receivers in fantasy points throughout 2009. Rice unquestionably has the talent to merit a higher ranking, but quarterback uncertainties keep him out of the higher tier.12. Randy Moss, Patriots | Age: 33.7 – Pushing his mid-30s and doesn't appear to be the dominant talent he once was. Moss can still take over a game, but he just disappears too often to keep elite value as he ages.13. Steve Smith, Panthers | Age: 31.4 – The only time 89 is not "establishing the rules" is when he has one of the most odious quarterbacks in the league throwing to him. If you throw out games started by Chris Weinke, a 44-year-old Vinny Testaverde pulled off his couch, and Jake Delhomme's 2009 implosion, Smiff has produced at the same rate since his career year in 2005. Matt Moore's late-season progress bodes well for Smiff's return to his familiar 100 yards/game territory. 14. Santonio Holmes, Steelers | Age: 26.6 - Would you believe he finished just 16 yards away from tying Reggie Wayne and Randy Moss for No. 5 in receiving yards? As Hines Ward begins to decline, Holmes' touchdown totals should rise.15. Percy Harvin, Vikings | Age: 22.3 - Already one of the best slot receivers in the game, Harvin displayed better than expected strength and toughness to go with his impressive after-the-catch ability. Before his late-season migraine episodes, the Rookie of the Year was on pace for 64 receptions, 1,059 yards from scrimmage, and 11 total touchdowns.16. Michael Crabtree, 49ers | Age: 23.0 - Part of San Fran's suddenly promising young offensive nucleus, Crabtree has already shown the total package as a No. 1 receiver.17. Hakeem Nicks, Giants | Age: 22.8 – Nicks had an inconsistent rookie campaign, but the important thing is that he succeeded in pushing Mario Manningham out of the starting role before the season ended. His size and homerun hitting ability make him a threat for double digit touchdowns as soon as next season.18. Brandon Marshall, Broncos | Age: 26.6 – Pure 100 percent unadulterated knucklehead. If you're fine with the ongoing soap opera as your No. 1 receiver, feel free to move him up your personal rankings. I just don't value his species highly, and I don't believe he can be counted on as a nucleus player.Tier Four19. Steve Smith, Giants | Age: 25.4 - Made the leap to true No. 1 receiver for the Giants in 2009, but Hakeem Nicks offers more fantasy upside.20. Dwayne Bowe, Chiefs | Age: 26.0 - His work ethic was questioned throughout the Herman Edwards era, he spent the offseason in Todd Haley's doghouse, and then he was dealt a four-game suspension. There's at least a hint of knucklehead potential here, isn't there?21. Anquan Boldin, Cardinals | Age: 29.11 – One can never count on Boldin to play a full 16-game season. Is the explosion still there? It's tough to tell if he can't stay healthy enough to open it up. After Early Doucet's postseason performance, it's finally time for Arizona to part ways with Boldin. His next address will go a long way in determining his Dynansty value.22. Jeremy Maclin, Eagles | Age: 22.4 - We knew he could get deep, but he also made tough catches over the middle and against the sidelines.23. Kenny Britt, Titans | Age: 22.0 - Undeniably the Titans' best receiver, Britt is a prototype No. 1 emerging as a deep threat as well as a go-to clutch option. He's already a fine WR3, and he could graduate to consensus Top-20 by next season.24. Chad Ochocinco, Bengals | Age: 32.8 – Ocho had a fine comeback season, but he's hitting the downslope just as his quarterback loses his magic touch. Can "85" be counted on as a WR2 if Carson Palmer is still battling injuries or mechanical issues next season?25. Mike Sims-Walker, Jaguars | Age: 25.10 - Whether the MSW owners like it or not, the checkered injury history adversely affects his Dynasty value. After his mid-season hot streak, he finished as just the No. 67 fantasy receiver over the final five weeks.26. Robert Meachem, Saints | Age: 26.0 – Meachem has the pedigree, size, talent, and nose for the end zone to eventually emerge as a Top-15 Dynasty option. . The former first-rounder has earned the starting job opposite Marques Colston going forward, and he finished as a Top-20 fantasy receiver over the second half of the season.27. Braylon Edwards, Jets | Age: 27.7 - The Jets aren't expected to rush into a long-term deal with Edwards this offseason, which is no surprise considering he still can't catch the ball.28. Wes Welker, Patriots | Age: 29.4 – Welker is a tricky to player to rank after tearing his ACL and MCL. He's not likely to be back to full health until the middle of next season, and we're left to wonder how the reconstructive surgery will limit his main strengths of cutting, shiftiness, and elusiveness in the long-term. Tier Five29. Pierre Garcon, Colts | Age: 24.1 - Garcon is making Anthony Gonzalez look like an afterthought. President Bill Polian, who hyped Garcon all offseason, has already called him "a run-after-the-catch threat that we've never had here." I just can't picture Gonzalez getting his job back in 2010.30. Jerricho Cotchery, Jets | Age: 28.3 – Cotchery is too pedestrian to be considered more than a low-end WR2, and the Braylon Edwards trade was an indictment of Cotchery as a No. 1 receiver from the Jets point of view. 31. Lee Evans, Bills | Age: 29.6 - Held hostage once again in Buffalo, this time by the offensive line as well as the rotten quarterback play. I'd buy low if I had any confidence in the Bills dramatically upgrading their trouble spots.32. Mike Wallace, Steelers | Age: 24.1 – Often referred to as nothing more than a Nate Washington-like situational deep threat, Wallace proved that he's more than just a speedster, hauling in clutch catches throughout the season. Already a borderline WR3, Wallace will see a value spike as Hines Ward declines over the next two seasons.33. Austin Collie, Colts | Age: 24.10 – The first-team all-rookie receiver earned Peyton Manning's confidence from the start by being in the right place and catching everything thrown his way. Already a complete receiver with a dynamite work ethic, Collie is the logical successor to Wes Welker as the league's prototypical slot receiver.34. Hines Ward, Steelers | Age: 34.6 – It's hard to ignore his production in the Steelers' new pass-first offense. Ward still had enough spring in his step to finish No. 16 among fantasy receivers despite the late-season hamstring woes.35. Santana Moss, Redskins | Age: 31.3 – This poor man's Steve Smith makes for the perfect trade throw-in as a bounce-back candidate in Mike Shanahan's offense. 36. Steve Breaston, Cardinals | Age: 27.1 – Who benefits more from an Anquan Boldin trade: Breaston or Early Doucet? 37. Jacoby Jones, Texans | Age: 26.2 - The perfect roster stash. Jones makes at least one eye-opening play every week, and opposing teams couldn't keep him out of the end zone even in limited touches. Now becoming more of a receiver as opposed to just a returner, the playmaker is a threat to Kevin Walter's starting job this offseason.38. James Jones, Packers | Age: 26.6 – Reminiscent of Anquan Boldin in body type, strength, and after-the-catch ability, Jones is the best bet to succeed Donald Driver opposite Greg Jennings. 39. Early Doucet, Cardinals | Age: 24.9 – Jimmy Johnson used to advise against trading an unhappy player until the year before he hits free agency. In other words, this is the offseason the Cardinals will actually put a legitimate effort into an Anquan Boldin deal. Doucet's postseason performance showed a player who could step right into Boldin's role in the offense.40. Julian Edelman, Patriots | Age: 24.4 – If Wes Welker is tricky to rank, then Edelman is by proxy. He put forth a monster effort in the Pats' embarrassing playoff loss, showing that he belongs at this level. The problem is that he obviously fits best in the slot, and the Patriots need more of a down-field threat to complement Welker and Randy Moss. Welker won't be close to 100 percent to start next season, which means Edelman should have another window of opportunity to carve out a primary role in the offense.41. Antonio Bryant, Buccaneers | Age: 29.6 – The diva position's second-biggest knucklehead complained about his contract situation throughout the year and certainly appeared to be malingering in a lost season. An unrestricted free agent this offseason, Bryant can put up good numbers in any given year but he's never a good bet for sustained value.42. Donnie Avery, Rams | Age: 26.3 - Similar to Mike Sims-Walker in that he just can't stay healthy. While MSW's injuries are always to his legs, the smallish Avery simply can't stand up to the pounding. If he does manage to stay injury-free, Avery could join Steven Jackson, Laurent Robinson, Jason Smith, and Jason Brown as an interesting offensive nucleus. Now about that quarterback situation . . . 43. Johnny Knox, Bears | Age: 23.10 - There aren't many faster receivers in the league. Scout.com's Adam Caplan mentioned late in the season that he thought Knox had a brighter future than Devin Hester, and I agree.44. Mohamed Massaquoi, Browns | Age: 23.10 – The second-rounder proved he could get open and make plays, but he's in desperate need of an accurate, strong-armed quarterback.45. Devin Hester, Bears | Age: 27.10 - Alternately ineffective and injured over the second half of the season, Hester was only masquerading as a potential No. 1 receiver in the season's first two months.46. Donald Driver, Packers | Age: 35.7 – Faded down the stretch, bypassed by both Greg Jennings and Jermichael Finley, turns 35 in February, and has potential contract issues this offseason.47. Anthony Gonzalez, Colts | Age: 26.0 – Like most Colts players, he derives more value from situation than talent. Now that Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie have emerged as promising receivers, Gonzalez's situation has changed dramatically.48. Chaz Schilens, Raiders | Age: 24.10 – Another player to target in offseason trade talks, Schilens is coming off a season lost to a foot fracture and poor quarterback play. Interesting note: in Weeks 15 and 16 of the past two seasons combined, Schilens has racked up 18 catches for 261 yards and two touchdowns. 49. Bernard Berrian, Vikings | Age: 29.9 - Usurped by Sidney Rice and Percy Harvin in 2009. Isaac Bruce and Curtis Conway both came back strong from seasons lost to hamstring woes, so there's at least a ray of hope for Berrian.Tier Six50. Devin Thomas, Redskins | Age: 23.8 - Did the light finally flip on for the second-round knucklehead? Thomas exploded for 7-100-2 against the Saints when Sherman Lewis began calling his number late in the season.51. Eddie Royal, Broncos | Age: 24.4 – Royal has plenty of talent, but he was nothing more than a skilled decoy in Josh McDaniels' offense. How can we be sure that's going to change next season? 52. Laurent Robinson, Rams | Age: 25.4 - Credit the Rams scouts; they know how to spot a talented receiver. Robinson is the real deal with ideal size and speed -- and a better all-around receiver than Donnie Avery. Just like Avery, though, he has a hard time staying out of the trainer's room.53. Derrick Mason, Ravens | Age: 36.8 – Fantasy's No. 20 receiver in 2009, Mason indicated that he will make a decision on his playing future "quickly and definitively." Coach John Harbaugh believes the unrestricted free agent will return, but it's going to take a pay raise to coax him back.54. Mario Manningham, Giants | Age: 24.4 – Showed playmaking ability but lost his starting job to Hakeem Nicks late in the season.55. Devin Aromashodu, Bears | Age: 26.4 - Nowhere close to Miles Austin's talent level, but Jay Cutler likes throwing to him – which counts for quite a bit with a void at No. 1 receiver in Chicago. Let's see what the Bears do this offseason before going crazy over his value.56. Jordy Nelson, Packers | Age: 25.4 – Nelson has flashed talent in the fourth receiver role in his first two seasons, but his value is capped by the presence of James Jones.57. Nate Burleson, Seahawks | Age: 29.1 – So he's not a legit No. 1 receiver after all? Receivers with Burleson's questionable history of production can't afford to fade down the stretch.58. Andre Caldwell, Bengals | Age: 25.5 – Opportunity came knocking in 2009, and Caldwell told it to away. He'll get another chance in 2010, but his inability to make plays late in the season was telling. 59. Josh Morgan, 49ers | Age: 25.3 - I'm still bullish on Morgan as an NFL player, but his fantasy value is limited behind Vernon Davis and Michael Crabtree.60. Ted Ginn, Dolphins | Age: 25.5 – The Miami coaches keep sticking up for him, but they also seem to understand that he's best used as a situational deep threat. Look for the Dolphins to pursue a true No. 1 receiver this offseason.61. Terrell Owens, Bills | Age: 36.8 – Clearly declining, but there's a possibility of a bounce-back fantasy season if he lands in the right situation with a good quarterback.62. Earl Bennett, Bears | Age: 23.6 – Average talent who works best in the slot and needs GPS to find the end zone.63. T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Seahawks | Age: 33.0 – Aging, overpaid possession receivers with no after-the-catch ability have to produce in the present to maintain value. Housh managed just two games over 80 yards all season.64. Mike Thomas, Jaguars | Age: 23.3 – Torry Holt's decline could open a starting job in 2010, but do the Jags prefer to keep Thomas in the slot?65. Deon Butler, Seahawks | Age: 24.8 – Butler has serious speed, and he should graduate to Deion Branch's third receiver job this offseason.66. Roy Williams, Cowboys | Age: 28.9 - Just flat-out useless if Tony Romo isn't throwing him a bone in the red zone. The $45M man has already lost the No. 1 receiver mantle to Miles Austin, and it shouldn't be longer before he loses the other starting job as well. 67. Kevin Walter, Texans | Age: 29.1 – Walter was never a good bet for long-term value, and now he's being outproduced as a receiver by the team's punt returner. He was unable to come close to consistent WR3 production in 2009, and Jacoby Jones threatens to eat into his playing time next season. 68. Malcom Floyd, Chargers | Age: 29.0 – A restricted free agent this offseason, the Bolts are unlikely to let their new No. 2 receiver get away. As long as he remains behind Antonio Gates and Vincent Jackson in the pecking order, however, he's merely an NFL role player and borderline rosterable in fantasy leagues.69. Davone Bess, Dolphins | Age: 25.0 – Almost worthless in standard leagues, but Bess has plenty of value in PPR leagues – especially those with flex options. Grab Bag70. Jabar Gaffney, Broncos | Age: 29.9 – Value is wholly dependant on the Broncos' offseason moves. Brandon Marshall is as good as gone, but will the Broncos pick up a new starter?71. Kevin Ogletree, Cowboys | Age: 23.1 – Could be starting alongside fellow undrafted free agent Miles Austin by 2011. As it is now, Roy Williams is just standing in the way of his progress.72. Devery Henderson, Saints | Age: 28.6 – Boom-or-bust receivers make for a losing fantasy team over the course of the season.73. Brandon Tate, Patriots | Age: 22.11 – Explosive talent should be fully recovered from his ACL injury this summer.74. Jarrett Dillard, Jaguars | Age: 24.9 – Was just beginning to give Mike Thomas a run for his money as the No. 3 receiver before suffering a broken ankle.75. Ramses Barden, Giants | Age: 24.8 – Impressive size and ballyhooed training camp, but he's too far down the depth chart entering 2010.76. Louis Murphy, Raiders | Age: 23.4 – Well behind Chaz Schilens, and the Raiders offense doesn't support two fantasy receivers.77. Steve Johnson, Bills | Age: 24.2 – A better Dynasty league stash than James Hardy.78. Brian Hartline, Dolphins | Age: 23.10 – Decent opportunity but low ceiling.79. Darrius Heyward-Bey, Raiders | Age: 23.7 – His best-case scenario is Alvin Harper, and that's beginning to look like a pipedream. Instead, DHB looks like the second coming of Troy Williamson with a worse quarterback situation.80. Chris Chambers, Chiefs | Age: 32.1 – Unrestricted free agent took advantage of Dwayne Bowe's absence late in the season. Will he be back in K.C.?81. Nate Washington, Titans | Age: 27.1 – Unlikely to match his fluky 2009 touchdown total and seems to be capped at 700 yards.82. Mark Clayton, Ravens | Age: 28.2 – Once promising receiver hasn't been a fantasy factor since 2006, as a litany of injuries have taken their toll. 83. Lance Moore, Saints | Age: 27.1 – Now behind both Robert Meachem and Devery Henderson in the Saints' receiving pecking order.84. Limas Sweed, Steelers | Age: 25.9 – Has the talent, but started off on the wrong foot in Pittsburgh and has struggled to right himself.85. Jason Hill, 49ers | Age: 25.7 – Could hold onto the No. 3 receiver role with Isaac Bruce gone and Brandon Jones constantly banged up.86. Malcolm Kelly, Redskins | Age: 23.9 – Struggles to get open and remains behind fellow 2008 second-rounder Devin Thomas heading into the 2010 season. 87. Brandon Gibson, Rams | Age: 23.1 – Laurent Robinson is a better talent and likely to take his starting job back in 2010.88. Laveranues Coles, Bengals | Age: 32.7 – Can't be expected to better his mediocre 2009 numbers as he ages.89. Justin Gage, Titans | Age: 29.8 – Likely headed toward No. 3 receiver in an offense where only one receiver matters. 90. Torry Holt, Jaguars | Age: 34.3 – Can no longer separate and didn't score a single touchdown in 2009.
 
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Brandon Marshall at 18?

P-P-P-Please :rolleyes:

26 years old, 100 catches 3 years in a row a 6'4" Monster....

If hes on the Board at 18 in ur startup PPR league, please wash your hands before touching your keyboard!

P.S. --- I wouldnt really call him a knucklehead, I would hate to play for McDiddy too! I might kick balls in practice if I was treated like crap coming off 2 100 catch seasons...check that make that a third now.

 
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Brandon Marshall at 18?

P-P-P-Please :popcorn:

26 years old, 100 catches 3 years in a row a 6'4" Monster....

If hes on the Board at 18 in ur startup PPR league, please wash your hands before touching your keyboard!

P.S. --- I wouldnt really call him a knucklehead, I would hate to play for McDiddy too! I might kick balls in practice if I was treated like crap coming off 2 100 catch seasons...check that make that a third now.
Rolling eyes smiley? REALLY? Maybe you could start posting in aLteRnatINg caps AgaIn too...

18. Brandon Marshall, Broncos | Age: 26.6 – Pure 100 percent unadulterated knucklehead. If you're fine with the ongoing soap opera as your No. 1 receiver, feel free to move him up your personal rankings. I just don't value his species highly, and I don't believe he can be counted on as a nucleus player.
For some reason you seem to enjoy going out of your way to be annoying and rude. Guess that's your shtick around here, but it certainly doesn't come off well from where I'm sitting and it makes it difficult to take your opinions seriously. Heck I'm even reconsidering my initial inclination to root for the underdog Saints next Sunday. The Saints logo appearing to the left of each of your posts has me rethinking that decision...
 
Marshall is undervalued right now. If people are paying attention to lists like this, then go out and get him.

 
Brandon Marshall at 18?P-P-P-Please :popcorn: 26 years old, 100 catches 3 years in a row a 6'4" Monster....If hes on the Board at 18 in ur startup PPR league, please wash your hands before touching your keyboard!P.S. --- I wouldnt really call him a knucklehead, I would hate to play for McDiddy too! I might kick balls in practice if I was treated like crap coming off 2 100 catch seasons...check that make that a third now.
You aren't seriously suggesting that McDaniels is the reason Marshall is a jackass are you? Marshall is and almost certainly always will be a knucklehead. Frankly I might have him lower than 18th. Is he productive? Yes, although even just based on numbers he's a little overrated, throw in the fact that he's arguably the most likely WR to end up with a Plaxico-like absence, and I'd gladly let someone else have him.Marshall has had 100 catches 3 years running, but he doesn't do a whole lot with those catches. This was the first time he had 10 TD's and his average per catch is terrible. That's not on Orton either, is was lousy with Cutler too. For as much hype as his record setting reception game got, he really didn't do anything with those catches. I remember watching that game and then the Eagles game later that night and noticing that Marshall and DeSean Jackson had almost the same stat line, only Jackson did it on 15 fewer catches.I'm not under the impression these are PPR rankings, maybe Marshall should be slightly higher there(15th?) but the basic point is, in a dynasty league he doesn't interest me much because even though he is young, I'm not sure(kinda doubt actually) that he has more good years left then older guys like Wayne or Moss and he's definitely not in their league now.I'd like to see Marshall get through an offseason without any drama before I even considered him at 18.
 
Two risks with Marshall: he goes to a team with a terrible QB and only puts up 80 catches instead of 100+, and/or he goes insane and gets suspended.

The knucklehead issue is HIGHLY overblown, imo.

One cannot simply ignore three straight years of 100+ catches, that is huge. The reward is very clear, the risk is fairly minor, imo.

The injury risk to Calvin Johnson is at least as much a worry, imo, but he sits at #3.

Full disclosure: I acquired Marshall at a discount in both of my dynasty leagues after the Cutler/McDaniels mess. That was his knucklehead peak, but I got WR5 (ppg) production from him in 2009. I also acquired Calvin about a month ago. I am quite bullish on both players.

 
Regarding Marshall's low yards per catch, that is a DIRECT result of how he is used. He is capable of big plays down the field, but he is also a great possession receiver and is used as such, since there is nobody else on the team capable of that role. And Captain checkdown is most certainly a mitigating factor as well...

Comparing Marshall's ypc on the Broncos and Jackson's ypc on the Eagles is the very definition of an apples to oranges comparison.

ETA: we are talking fantasy production here... 200 yards and a TD is the same however you get it, 20 catches or 5 catches. Desean will never have 20 catches because he is not that type of WR. And no WR will ever average 30 ypc on 20 catches in a game, because that is silly to expect. Apples. Oranges.

 
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Tier One1. Larry Fitzgerald, Cardinals | Age: 27.0 – The best receiver in football has been a lock for double digit touchdowns and 95+ receptions every season. Make no mistake, a Kurt Warner retirement would hurt Fitz's 2010 value – but perhaps not as much as one would think. Fitz averaged 82.4 yards and 5.7 receptions in the seven games he and Matt Leinart played together during Leinart's rookie season. He's averaged 84.2 yards and 6.3 receptions in the 59 games Warner has started the past five seasons. As long as he can continue to get into the end zone at least 10 times per season, Fitzgerald will remain a fantasy difference maker.
Just posted this in another thread:
I'm going to just focus on Fitz for now. This discussion will also apply to others in the offense in different ways, but that's for another post/discussion.There are really two issues to be considered here with regard to the impact on Fitz's performance going forward. First, how will his targets in 2010 and beyond compare to the targets he has received in recent years? Second, how will his production per target compare to what it was in recent years?I looked up some data for Fitz and Leinart. Given that it's hard to account for times when Leinart relieved another QB vs. when he was pulled for another QB, I just chose all games in which both played and Leinart had 20 or more passing attempts and compared them to all of Fitz's other games (regular season and postseason) from 2006 to 2009, since Leinart joined the team in 2006. Here's the data:Games in which Fitzgerald played and Leinart had 20+ pass attempts:12 games, 97 targets, 60 receptions, 742 receiving yards (12.4 ypr), 4 TDsPer 16 games, this scales to 129 targets, 80 receptions, 989 receiving yards, 5 TDsAll other games (regular season and postseason) played by Fitzgerald from 2006 to 2009:54 games, 533 targets, 345 receptions, 4847 receiving yards (14 ypr), 46 TDsPer 16 games, this scales to 158 targets, 102 receptions, 1436 receiving yards, 14 TDsObviously there is an enormous difference. This suggests that Leinart will indeed have a negative impact on Fitz's numbers. With Leinart, Fitz averaged fewer targets and his production per target was lower.Of course, one might argue that Leinart has a chance to be better this year, especially since if he is going to be the starter he will have the chance to work all offseason and preseason with Fitz and the rest of the first team offense. But can that make up this huge gap? I seriously doubt it.And I'd be concerned that with Warner out and Leinart in, the offense will shift to a more balanced attack, with more running and less passing. Check out where the offense ranked in passing and rushing attempts over the past 4 seasons:2006 - #7 in passing attempts, #26 in rushing attempts2007 - #2 in passing attempts, #25 in rushing attempts2008 - #2 in passing attempts, #32 in rushing attempts2009 - #3 in passing attempts, #32 in rushing attemptsI expect Whisenhunt to adjust to a more balanced attack going forward, given that he will no longer have one of the best passing QBs in the NFL.I suppose if the Cardinals traded for McNabb or somehow otherwise obtained a potential top 10 caliber QB, Fitz could be alright. But otherwise, I fully expect him to dropoff from his performance in recent years. His talent hasn't changed, and he will still certainly be a top 20 WR, maybe still a top 10 WR. But if I had him in a dynasty league, I'd strongly consider trading him if he would still bring similar value to what he would have brought last year.
IMO Fitz is not a top 5 dynasty WR right now, much less #1.
 
Brandon Marshall at 18?

P-P-P-Please :goodposting:

26 years old, 100 catches 3 years in a row a 6'4" Monster....

If hes on the Board at 18 in ur startup PPR league, please wash your hands before touching your keyboard!

P.S. --- I wouldnt really call him a knucklehead, I would hate to play for McDiddy too! I might kick balls in practice if I was treated like crap coming off 2 100 catch seasons...check that make that a third now.
Rolling eyes smiley? REALLY? Maybe you could start posting in aLteRnatINg caps AgaIn too...

18. Brandon Marshall, Broncos | Age: 26.6 – Pure 100 percent unadulterated knucklehead. If you're fine with the ongoing soap opera as your No. 1 receiver, feel free to move him up your personal rankings. I just don't value his species highly, and I don't believe he can be counted on as a nucleus player.
For some reason you seem to enjoy going out of your way to be annoying and rude. Guess that's your shtick around here, but it certainly doesn't come off well from where I'm sitting and it makes it difficult to take your opinions seriously. Heck I'm even reconsidering my initial inclination to root for the underdog Saints next Sunday. The Saints logo appearing to the left of each of your posts has me rethinking that decision...
Nope, just to make people like you mad! I like the fact I get under so many peoples skin with such straight forward opinions....

Considering none of you impact my everyday life...what do I care?

Its a forum, I express my opinion, and if my opinion of Marshall being valued too low and the rolling eyes smiley offends you...who has the real issue, heh?

 
Brandon Marshall at 18?P-P-P-Please :goodposting: 26 years old, 100 catches 3 years in a row a 6'4" Monster....If hes on the Board at 18 in ur startup PPR league, please wash your hands before touching your keyboard!P.S. --- I wouldnt really call him a knucklehead, I would hate to play for McDiddy too! I might kick balls in practice if I was treated like crap coming off 2 100 catch seasons...check that make that a third now.
You aren't seriously suggesting that McDaniels is the reason Marshall is a jackass are you? Marshall is and almost certainly always will be a knucklehead. Frankly I might have him lower than 18th. Is he productive? Yes, although even just based on numbers he's a little overrated, throw in the fact that he's arguably the most likely WR to end up with a Plaxico-like absence, and I'd gladly let someone else have him.Marshall has had 100 catches 3 years running, but he doesn't do a whole lot with those catches. This was the first time he had 10 TD's and his average per catch is terrible. That's not on Orton either, is was lousy with Cutler too. For as much hype as his record setting reception game got, he really didn't do anything with those catches. I remember watching that game and then the Eagles game later that night and noticing that Marshall and DeSean Jackson had almost the same stat line, only Jackson did it on 15 fewer catches.I'm not under the impression these are PPR rankings, maybe Marshall should be slightly higher there(15th?) but the basic point is, in a dynasty league he doesn't interest me much because even though he is young, I'm not sure(kinda doubt actually) that he has more good years left then older guys like Wayne or Moss and he's definitely not in their league now.I'd like to see Marshall get through an offseason without any drama before I even considered him at 18.
Isnt Fantasy Football a game of stats?U'll gladly lets someone else have a 100 catch wr in a ppr?His suspension were a direct result of his fued with a young ego driven coach who assumes he gets the respect but don't have to give any. I mean I understand you forgot how McDaniels handled this whole season from Cutler to Marshall....Dude benching a player cuz hes hurt is Marshalls fault? If hes hurt, hes hurt...to assume Marshall did not want to play in a game that could of gotten them in the playoffs is insane, and just people being haters.
 
Brandon Marshall at 18?P-P-P-Please :rolleyes: 26 years old, 100 catches 3 years in a row a 6'4" Monster....If hes on the Board at 18 in ur startup PPR league, please wash your hands before touching your keyboard!P.S. --- I wouldnt really call him a knucklehead, I would hate to play for McDiddy too! I might kick balls in practice if I was treated like crap coming off 2 100 catch seasons...check that make that a third now.
You aren't seriously suggesting that McDaniels is the reason Marshall is a jackass are you? Marshall is and almost certainly always will be a knucklehead. Frankly I might have him lower than 18th. Is he productive? Yes, although even just based on numbers he's a little overrated, throw in the fact that he's arguably the most likely WR to end up with a Plaxico-like absence, and I'd gladly let someone else have him.Marshall has had 100 catches 3 years running, but he doesn't do a whole lot with those catches. This was the first time he had 10 TD's and his average per catch is terrible. That's not on Orton either, is was lousy with Cutler too. For as much hype as his record setting reception game got, he really didn't do anything with those catches. I remember watching that game and then the Eagles game later that night and noticing that Marshall and DeSean Jackson had almost the same stat line, only Jackson did it on 15 fewer catches.I'm not under the impression these are PPR rankings, maybe Marshall should be slightly higher there(15th?) but the basic point is, in a dynasty league he doesn't interest me much because even though he is young, I'm not sure(kinda doubt actually) that he has more good years left then older guys like Wayne or Moss and he's definitely not in their league now.I'd like to see Marshall get through an offseason without any drama before I even considered him at 18.
Isnt Fantasy Football a game of stats?U'll gladly lets someone else have a 100 catch wr in a ppr?His suspension were a direct result of his fued with a young ego driven coach who assumes he gets the respect but don't have to give any. I mean I understand you forgot how McDaniels handled this whole season from Cutler to Marshall....Dude benching a player cuz hes hurt is Marshalls fault? If hes hurt, hes hurt...to assume Marshall did not want to play in a game that could of gotten them in the playoffs is insane, and just people being haters.
If he's being valued among the top 10-12 WR's, then yes, I'd gladly let someone else have a 100-catch WR. When his value falls past 20th or so, then I'd probably bite the bullet and try to acquire him.I wasn't referencing week 17 of this year at all, I'd actually kind of forgotten about it. I was talking about the fact that he got kicked out of training camp this year and got suspended in 2008 and his old coach(Shanny) has publicly said he wants nothing to do with him. Also, bringing up McDaniels-Cutler doesn't really help your point. Especially since the Bears can't find anyone who actually wants to coach Cutler and might have to bring in Martz, who himself has garnered no interest league wide.In summary, I just don't trust the guy at all. Especially since these are dynasty rankings.
 
Pretty good list, but I would change some things.

- Andre Johnson is a safer pick than Calvin Johnson, but he's also approaching the dangerous 30 number. Owners become very reluctant to trade elite value for 30+ year old players, so even if Johnson's on field performance remains elite his trade value will probably dip a little bit. I think I'd rather have Calvin. It's not a landslide though.

- I don't see a distinction between most of the 2nd tier guys and many of the 3rd tier guys. I would take Greg Jennings over anyone in the second tier and I don't think Austin/VJax/DJax are a tier above Holmes and Crabtree. I think DJax is particularly overrated since he's dependent on big plays for TDs and likely won't match his flukish TD total in future seasons (he had nearly the same amount of touches this season as he did last year, but scored 8 more TDs).

- Brandon Marshall is one of the top 3 young WRs in the game. On my preliminary list he was in the WR4 spot. Even with his off-field issues, he's a stud when he plays and he's a lot younger than the likes of Reggie Wayne and Steve Smith. I think personal bias is too strong of a factor here. If you're going to put guys like Wayne, Moss, and Smith in the top 12 then Marshall belongs there too.

- Smith and Moss might put up stats for another year or two, but most owners would prefer any number of the guys ranked below them. I have Moss in a dynasty right now and I can't give him away. I wish I could move him for Crabtree, Marshall, or Holmes.

- Eddie Royal is a lot higher on my board. I think he's a lot more talented than the likes of Collie/Wallace/Doucet/Edelman.

 
i never understood why Hakeem Nicks has higher value than Steve Smith (NYG). He had 106 receptions this year. I believe once they have a true #1, his numbers will stay the same, if not get better.

Jerry Rice, his close friend, told him, "You need to play great to be great." Every since, ive seen better play, Plus Manning has the most chemistry with him when it comes to Football.

 
i don't care how much of a head case marshall is. #18 is way too low for a young stud who's had 3 100 catch seasons in a row.

 
i never understood why Hakeem Nicks has higher value than Steve Smith (NYG). He had 106 receptions this year. I believe once they have a true #1, his numbers will stay the same, if not get better.
Nicks has much more upside in terms of physical ability. Specifically with big plays and red zone targets.
 
i don't care how much of a head case marshall is. #18 is way too low for a young stud who's had 3 100 catch seasons in a row.
No kidding. He's no more of a knucklehead than 13th ranked, 31 year old Steve Smith who one time punched a teammate in the face, yet Smith is 13th with no comment about his previous run-ins? Ok.Talentwise Marshall is easily top 10. Possibly top 5.
 
Just Win Baby said:
Tier One1. Larry Fitzgerald, Cardinals | Age: 27.0 – The best receiver in football has been a lock for double digit touchdowns and 95+ receptions every season. Make no mistake, a Kurt Warner retirement would hurt Fitz's 2010 value – but perhaps not as much as one would think. Fitz averaged 82.4 yards and 5.7 receptions in the seven games he and Matt Leinart played together during Leinart's rookie season. He's averaged 84.2 yards and 6.3 receptions in the 59 games Warner has started the past five seasons. As long as he can continue to get into the end zone at least 10 times per season, Fitzgerald will remain a fantasy difference maker.
Just posted this in another thread:
Just Win Baby said:
I'm going to just focus on Fitz for now. This discussion will also apply to others in the offense in different ways, but that's for another post/discussion.There are really two issues to be considered here with regard to the impact on Fitz's performance going forward. First, how will his targets in 2010 and beyond compare to the targets he has received in recent years? Second, how will his production per target compare to what it was in recent years?I looked up some data for Fitz and Leinart. Given that it's hard to account for times when Leinart relieved another QB vs. when he was pulled for another QB, I just chose all games in which both played and Leinart had 20 or more passing attempts and compared them to all of Fitz's other games (regular season and postseason) from 2006 to 2009, since Leinart joined the team in 2006. Here's the data:Games in which Fitzgerald played and Leinart had 20+ pass attempts:12 games, 97 targets, 60 receptions, 742 receiving yards (12.4 ypr), 4 TDsPer 16 games, this scales to 129 targets, 80 receptions, 989 receiving yards, 5 TDsAll other games (regular season and postseason) played by Fitzgerald from 2006 to 2009:54 games, 533 targets, 345 receptions, 4847 receiving yards (14 ypr), 46 TDsPer 16 games, this scales to 158 targets, 102 receptions, 1436 receiving yards, 14 TDsObviously there is an enormous difference. This suggests that Leinart will indeed have a negative impact on Fitz's numbers. With Leinart, Fitz averaged fewer targets and his production per target was lower.Of course, one might argue that Leinart has a chance to be better this year, especially since if he is going to be the starter he will have the chance to work all offseason and preseason with Fitz and the rest of the first team offense. But can that make up this huge gap? I seriously doubt it.And I'd be concerned that with Warner out and Leinart in, the offense will shift to a more balanced attack, with more running and less passing. Check out where the offense ranked in passing and rushing attempts over the past 4 seasons:2006 - #7 in passing attempts, #26 in rushing attempts2007 - #2 in passing attempts, #25 in rushing attempts2008 - #2 in passing attempts, #32 in rushing attempts2009 - #3 in passing attempts, #32 in rushing attemptsI expect Whisenhunt to adjust to a more balanced attack going forward, given that he will no longer have one of the best passing QBs in the NFL.I suppose if the Cardinals traded for McNabb or somehow otherwise obtained a potential top 10 caliber QB, Fitz could be alright. But otherwise, I fully expect him to dropoff from his performance in recent years. His talent hasn't changed, and he will still certainly be a top 20 WR, maybe still a top 10 WR. But if I had him in a dynasty league, I'd strongly consider trading him if he would still bring similar value to what he would have brought last year.
IMO Fitz is not a top 5 dynasty WR right now, much less #1.
In our Dynasty League there are only TWO WR that have been in the top 10 scoring for three consecutive years...Fitz and Moss ...works for me.
 
Just Win Baby said:
IMO Fitz is not a top 5 dynasty WR right now, much less #1.
:lmao:
I realize it's against the grain. I'll be interested to see the projections for Fitz that roll out prior to next season. I think he'll get fewer targets and will be less productive on a per target basis, assuming Leinart is his QB. :lmao:
 
Move randy back up a little. Played with a separated shoulder and still had double digit TDs. I see 2 more year of elite production.

 
Marshall has had 100 catches 3 years running, but he doesn't do a whole lot with those catches. This was the first time he had 10 TD's and his average per catch is terrible. That's not on Orton either, is was lousy with Cutler too. For as much hype as his record setting reception game got, he really didn't do anything with those catches. I remember watching that game and then the Eagles game later that night and noticing that Marshall and DeSean Jackson had almost the same stat line, only Jackson did it on 15 fewer catches.

I'm not under the impression these are PPR rankings, maybe Marshall should be slightly higher there(15th?) but the basic point is, in a dynasty league he doesn't interest me much because even though he is young, I'm not sure(kinda doubt actually) that he has more good years left then older guys like Wayne or Moss and he's definitely not in their league now.
Marshall's per catch yardage has dropped from 12.2 to 11.1 going from Cutler to Orton. That is significant, and I would say a result of Orton. Here are guys with 3-100 catch seasons in a row, ever: Marvin Harrison, Wes Welker, (I knwo I'm missing one more guy here), and Brandon Marshall. Huh. Would you have wanted those other two guys on your fantasy team? I would have (until the knee injuries which were/are significant)

100 catches is a lot. It's basically 1000 yards guaranteed. In his first 3 seasons of full time play!!!!! Now don't even think of 100 catches 3 times in a row, but in a player's entire career. In a career twice as long, not even Fitzgerald has done it. Also, Marshall has done it in 15 games for each of the last 2 years.

Just Win Baby said:
IMO Fitz is not a top 5 dynasty WR right now, much less #1.
:lmao:
I realize it's against the grain. I'll be interested to see the projections for Fitz that roll out prior to next season. I think he'll get fewer targets and will be less productive on a per target basis, assuming Leinart is his QB. :shrug:
I am 100% in agreement here. Guys I want definitively over Fitz right now: Calvin Johnson, Miles Austin, Roddy White, Brandon MarshallI also have a hunch that Santonio Holmes will be more valuable starting next season, but I'm sure 99% of people disagree so I will put him in the next section, guys I would definitely take relative to cost, as cheaper with a good chance of producing extremely close to Fitz: Santonio Holmes, Kenny Britt, Andre Johnson, Vincent Jackson.

So I would put Fitz at 8 in my rankings.

1. Miles Austin

2. Roddy White

3. Santonio Holmes

4. Calvin Johnson

5. Brandon Marshall

6. Vincent Jackson

7. Andre Johnson

8. Larry Fitzgerald

9. Reggie Wayne

10. Kenny Britt

If I were drafting irregardless to value or draft position, and somebody told me "hey, dynasty team, which WR corps would be most perfect to you starting now?"

My answer would be Austin, White, Holmes. Or Calvin Johnson.

I just have this super huge hunch that Holmes is a top 5 guy starting next year, and stays top 10 for the next 5+ years

 
Added some comments in bold

1. Larry Fitzgerald, Cardinals | Age: 27.0 – The best receiver in football has been a lock for double digit touchdowns and 95+ receptions every season. Make no mistake, a Kurt Warner retirement would hurt Fitz's 2010 value – but perhaps not as much as one would think.

Fitz averaged 82.4 yards and 5.7 receptions in the seven games he and Matt Leinart played together during Leinart's rookie season. He's averaged 84.2 yards and 6.3 receptions in the 59 games Warner has started the past five seasons. As long as he can continue to get into the end zone at least 10 times per season, Fitzgerald will remain a fantasy difference maker.

That 7 game sample happened to include Fitzgerald's career high for receiving yards in a game. Maybe you see that as a reason for optimism, I see it as a red flag. That, and the fact that Fitzgerald didn't play well with Leinart this year. Also, the dip in ypc and lack of big plays (only 12 over 20 yards) got my attention.

14. Santonio Holmes, Steelers | Age: 26.6 - Would you believe he finished just 16 yards away from tying Reggie Wayne and Randy Moss for No. 5 in receiving yards? As Hines Ward begins to decline, Holmes' touchdown totals should rise.

I like this ranking a lot. He's always had the big play ability, but he's becoming more reliable and consistent. Like it or not, the Steelers are now a passing team and I don't think that is going to change any time soon.

16. Michael Crabtree, 49ers | Age: 23.0 - Part of San Fran's suddenly promising young offensive nucleus, Crabtree has already shown the total package as a No. 1 receiver.

The team desperately wanted to get him involved (benched Morgan for him) and yet he didn't reach 100 yards, and only had 2 receiving TDs in 11 games. That's not showing me he's the total package. Don't get me wrong, I think the talent is there, but SF needs a huge QB upgrade before Crabtree takes the next step, and good QBs are hard to find.

18. Brandon Marshall, Broncos | Age: 26.6 – Pure 100 percent unadulterated knucklehead. If you're fine with the ongoing soap opera as your No. 1 receiver, feel free to move him up your personal rankings. I just don't value his species highly, and I don't believe he can be counted on as a nucleus player.

As others have mentioned, this ranking is just way out of touch with reality. We're not ranking boy scouts here. I understand your feelings on this one, and admit he could disappear like Randy Moss in Oakland, but just want to emphasize that allowing another owner to get him as a WR2 is like handing them the championship. He's a freakish talent that will demand the ball wherever he goes, and I can't see an argument where he's below 7th, all things considered.

36. Steve Breaston, Cardinals | Age: 27.1 – Who benefits more from an Anquan Boldin trade: Breaston or Early Doucet?

Without Warner, the answer might be neither.
 
i don't care how much of a head case marshall is. #18 is way too low for a young stud who's had 3 100 catch seasons in a row.
No kidding. He's no more of a knucklehead than 13th ranked, 31 year old Steve Smith who one time punched a teammate in the face, yet Smith is 13th with no comment about his previous run-ins? Ok.Talentwise Marshall is easily top 10. Possibly top 5.
I don't think you know what goes into being a knucklehead.
 
Brandon Marshall at 18?

P-P-P-Please :goodposting:

26 years old, 100 catches 3 years in a row a 6'4" Monster....

If hes on the Board at 18 in ur startup PPR league, please wash your hands before touching your keyboard!

P.S. --- I wouldnt really call him a knucklehead, I would hate to play for McDiddy too! I might kick balls in practice if I was treated like crap coming off 2 100 catch seasons...check that make that a third now.
I get a kick out of the revisionist history that tries to claim Marshall's only problems in the NFL have come as a result of Josh McDaniels. As if there was no other reason to doubt his stability.How about this one:

Brandon Marshall has had his troubles with new coach Josh McDaniels this year but he wouldn't even be a Denver Bronco if Mike Shanahan had still been around.

Shanahan was planning to dump Marshall after the receiver played in his first Pro Bowl in February, according sources familiar with the former Broncos' coach post-season thoughts. The coach went so far to share his plans with quarterback Jay Cutler, a day before Shanahan himself was surprisingly fired. Cutler was later traded to the Bears by new coach Jo sh McDaniels.

Sources said Shanahan had grown weary with Marshall off the field and even felt he was unreliable on the field, despite leading all NFL receivers with 206 catches for 2,590 yards over the previous two seasons. Shanahan, a source said, felt Marshall had cost the Broncos more victories by his poor route running, dropped passes and his tepid run-blocking efforts. The coach also anticipated some contract problems, a source said.

Shanahan was reasonably certain Marshall would get him value on the trade market but if he had run into a dead end on a deal, sources said he would have considered cutting him outright, as was reported earlier on Sunday.
Or take a look at Marshall's lengthy rap sheet. The guy is a delusional idiot on par with Plaxico Burress, who I might add I always had ranked much lower than anyone else because he was an obvious knucklehead of the highest order.
 
Brandon Marshall at 18?

P-P-P-Please :shrug:

26 years old, 100 catches 3 years in a row a 6'4" Monster....

If hes on the Board at 18 in ur startup PPR league, please wash your hands before touching your keyboard!

P.S. --- I wouldnt really call him a knucklehead, I would hate to play for McDiddy too! I might kick balls in practice if I was treated like crap coming off 2 100 catch seasons...check that make that a third now.
I get a kick out of the revisionist history that tries to claim Marshall's only problems in the NFL have come as a result of Josh McDaniels. As if there was no other reason to doubt his stability.How about this one:

Brandon Marshall has had his troubles with new coach Josh McDaniels this year but he wouldn't even be a Denver Bronco if Mike Shanahan had still been around.

Shanahan was planning to dump Marshall after the receiver played in his first Pro Bowl in February, according sources familiar with the former Broncos' coach post-season thoughts. The coach went so far to share his plans with quarterback Jay Cutler, a day before Shanahan himself was surprisingly fired. Cutler was later traded to the Bears by new coach Jo sh McDaniels.

Sources said Shanahan had grown weary with Marshall off the field and even felt he was unreliable on the field, despite leading all NFL receivers with 206 catches for 2,590 yards over the previous two seasons. Shanahan, a source said, felt Marshall had cost the Broncos more victories by his poor route running, dropped passes and his tepid run-blocking efforts. The coach also anticipated some contract problems, a source said.

Jay cutler scolding him??? As if Jay Cutler is some respectable authority...

His girl friend saying she is going to ruin him??? That just shows that she is psycho and you have to put her abuse charges in brackets and question her, not him. Yet both are listed as items in his "rap" sheet.

Shanahan was reasonably certain Marshall would get him value on the trade market but if he had run into a dead end on a deal, sources said he would have considered cutting him outright, as was reported earlier on Sunday.
Or take a look at Marshall's lengthy rap sheet. The guy is a delusional idiot on par with Plaxico Burress, who I might add I always had ranked much lower than anyone else because he was an obvious knucklehead of the highest order.
That's not a rap sheet. It's a list of innuendos, rumors, and charges that have been dropped. A Rap sheet should include only convictions of felonies. Frankly, you are not very objective. You don't seem bothered by the two DUIs of VJax or the positive test for taking substances violating the league's anti-steroids policy by Bowe, for example.Edit: I Love this one: "

7/24/08: NFL Network's Adam Schefter (with almost impeccable Denver connections) believes that Brandon Marshall is in danger of a four- to eight-game suspension." It's listed as part of his "rap"sheet but all it really is is some beat writer spouting off. The blog notes how impeccable this guy's connections are...yet, as it turns out, Marshall only received a one game suspension in 08.

The guy has had problems but when you lump in all these wild accusations (the Williams one is really unfair) and all the domestic stuff that was never proven it really makes you look like you lack credibility.

 
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Brandon Marshall at 18?

P-P-P-Please :shrug:

26 years old, 100 catches 3 years in a row a 6'4" Monster....

If hes on the Board at 18 in ur startup PPR league, please wash your hands before touching your keyboard!

P.S. --- I wouldnt really call him a knucklehead, I would hate to play for McDiddy too! I might kick balls in practice if I was treated like crap coming off 2 100 catch seasons...check that make that a third now.
I get a kick out of the revisionist history that tries to claim Marshall's only problems in the NFL have come as a result of Josh McDaniels. As if there was no other reason to doubt his stability.How about this one:

Brandon Marshall has had his troubles with new coach Josh McDaniels this year but he wouldn't even be a Denver Bronco if Mike Shanahan had still been around.

Shanahan was planning to dump Marshall after the receiver played in his first Pro Bowl in February, according sources familiar with the former Broncos' coach post-season thoughts. The coach went so far to share his plans with quarterback Jay Cutler, a day before Shanahan himself was surprisingly fired. Cutler was later traded to the Bears by new coach Jo sh McDaniels.

Sources said Shanahan had grown weary with Marshall off the field and even felt he was unreliable on the field, despite leading all NFL receivers with 206 catches for 2,590 yards over the previous two seasons. Shanahan, a source said, felt Marshall had cost the Broncos more victories by his poor route running, dropped passes and his tepid run-blocking efforts. The coach also anticipated some contract problems, a source said.

Jay cutler scolding him??? As if Jay Cutler is some respectable authority...

His girl friend saying she is going to ruin him??? That just shows that she is psycho and you have to put her abuse charges in brackets and question her, not him. Yet both are listed as items in his "rap" sheet.

Shanahan was reasonably certain Marshall would get him value on the trade market but if he had run into a dead end on a deal, sources said he would have considered cutting him outright, as was reported earlier on Sunday.
Or take a look at Marshall's lengthy rap sheet. The guy is a delusional idiot on par with Plaxico Burress, who I might add I always had ranked much lower than anyone else because he was an obvious knucklehead of the highest order.
That's not a rap sheet. It's a list of innuendos, rumors, and charges that have been dropped. A Rap sheet should include only convictions of felonies. Frankly, you are not very objective. You don't seem bothered by the two DUIs of VJax or the positive test for taking substances violating the league's anti-steroids policy by Bowe, for example.Edit: I Love this one: "

7/24/08: NFL Network's Adam Schefter (with almost impeccable Denver connections) believes that Brandon Marshall is in danger of a four- to eight-game suspension." It's listed as part of his "rap"sheet but all it really is is some beat writer spouting off. The blog notes how impeccable this guy's connections are...yet, as it turns out, Marshall only received a one game suspension in 08.

The guy has had problems but when you lump in all these wild accusations (the Williams one is really unfair) and all the domestic stuff that was never proven it really makes you look like you lack credibility.
After going through that whole list (largely taken from wikipedia) it seems that his rap sheet really boils down to the following:In 2004, as a college student he was arrested "on charges of assault on a law enforcement officer, refusal to obey, disorderly conduct and resisting an officer." It's not clear if he was actually convicted or not. My guess is he accepted a plea bargain. college students getting arrested on Halloween for assault is pretty common--basically he got into a fight and cops intervened. They charge you with disorderly conduct and resisting an officer if you look at them sideways (see the NY Fan being arrested in SD video...). This is a pretty minor deal in the big scheme of things and going back to college is pretty weak.

2) The first thing he is actually convicted of is a DWI in 2007.

When you boil down all these accusations and rumors and innuendos that's it--one DWI conviction.

That's not what I call a "long rap sheet."

 
Brandon Marshall at 18?

P-P-P-Please :headbang:

26 years old, 100 catches 3 years in a row a 6'4" Monster....

If hes on the Board at 18 in ur startup PPR league, please wash your hands before touching your keyboard!

P.S. --- I wouldnt really call him a knucklehead, I would hate to play for McDiddy too! I might kick balls in practice if I was treated like crap coming off 2 100 catch seasons...check that make that a third now.
I get a kick out of the revisionist history that tries to claim Marshall's only problems in the NFL have come as a result of Josh McDaniels. As if there was no other reason to doubt his stability.How about this one:

Brandon Marshall has had his troubles with new coach Josh McDaniels this year but he wouldn't even be a Denver Bronco if Mike Shanahan had still been around.

Shanahan was planning to dump Marshall after the receiver played in his first Pro Bowl in February, according sources familiar with the former Broncos' coach post-season thoughts. The coach went so far to share his plans with quarterback Jay Cutler, a day before Shanahan himself was surprisingly fired. Cutler was later traded to the Bears by new coach Jo sh McDaniels.

Sources said Shanahan had grown weary with Marshall off the field and even felt he was unreliable on the field, despite leading all NFL receivers with 206 catches for 2,590 yards over the previous two seasons. Shanahan, a source said, felt Marshall had cost the Broncos more victories by his poor route running, dropped passes and his tepid run-blocking efforts. The coach also anticipated some contract problems, a source said.

Jay cutler scolding him??? As if Jay Cutler is some respectable authority...

His girl friend saying she is going to ruin him??? That just shows that she is psycho and you have to put her abuse charges in brackets and question her, not him. Yet both are listed as items in his "rap" sheet.

Shanahan was reasonably certain Marshall would get him value on the trade market but if he had run into a dead end on a deal, sources said he would have considered cutting him outright, as was reported earlier on Sunday.
Or take a look at Marshall's lengthy rap sheet. The guy is a delusional idiot on par with Plaxico Burress, who I might add I always had ranked much lower than anyone else because he was an obvious knucklehead of the highest order.
That's not a rap sheet. It's a list of innuendos, rumors, and charges that have been dropped. A Rap sheet should include only convictions of felonies. Frankly, you are not very objective. You don't seem bothered by the two DUIs of VJax or the positive test for taking substances violating the league's anti-steroids policy by Bowe, for example.Edit: I Love this one: "

7/24/08: NFL Network's Adam Schefter (with almost impeccable Denver connections) believes that Brandon Marshall is in danger of a four- to eight-game suspension." It's listed as part of his "rap"sheet but all it really is is some beat writer spouting off. The blog notes how impeccable this guy's connections are...yet, as it turns out, Marshall only received a one game suspension in 08.

The guy has had problems but when you lump in all these wild accusations (the Williams one is really unfair) and all the domestic stuff that was never proven it really makes you look like you lack credibility.
After going through that whole list (largely taken from wikipedia) it seems that his rap sheet really boils down to the following:In 2004, as a college student he was arrested "on charges of assault on a law enforcement officer, refusal to obey, disorderly conduct and resisting an officer." It's not clear if he was actually convicted or not. My guess is he accepted a plea bargain. college students getting arrested on Halloween for assault is pretty common--basically he got into a fight and cops intervened. They charge you with disorderly conduct and resisting an officer if you look at them sideways (see the NY Fan being arrested in SD video...). This is a pretty minor deal in the big scheme of things and going back to college is pretty weak.

2) The first thing he is actually convicted of is a DWI in 2007.

When you boil down all these accusations and rumors and innuendos that's it--one DWI conviction.

That's not what I call a "long rap sheet."
As we've already discussed in the Dynasty Rankings thread, of which you're very familiar, there's far more that goes into being a knucklehead than simply criminal activity. Brandon Marshall's rap sheet is a case against him as a knucklehead, not a criminal.
 
From last year, "Knucklehead Clarification"

As Evan Silva pointed out a couple of weeks ago, I once coined the term “knucklehead factor” to describe Dynasty league players with high risks of losing value at a moment’s notice.

But what goes into being a true “knucklehead”? The term was born about five years ago when I tried to express why I never wanted Plaxico Burress on any of my Dynasty rosters despite his obvious talent. While several ingredients go into the knucklehead stew, the “legal woes” spotlight has recently drowned out the more subtle flavors.

Since his time in Pittsburgh, Plax has disrespected coaches, incurred fines, shown poor awareness on the field (spiking the ball without getting touched on more than one occasion), and disappeared/pouted for long stretches of games. That last point, especially, turned me off. Plax’s knucklehead issues weren’t limited to the off-the-field variety. His effort was often unreliable on the field.

Does Brandon Marshall have some of that in him? It’s tough to say. He hasn’t been known for hang-dogging on the field, but his on-field rap sheet includes a shouting match with his position coach, arriving to camp out of shape, and ripping fans. Not quite Plax territory, but worth noting considering his notorious extra-curricular activities.

What about Marshawn Lynch? I know I should be worried about his “knucklehead factor” considering his possession of an unlawful firearm and marijuana on top of the hit-and-run incident. But the Beast Mode doesn’t really scare me.

He hasn’t been a bad teammate or an insubordinate employee. What's more, his family, friends, and former coaches swear by his character. He’s yet to turn 23-years-old, so it’s plenty reasonable to believe his latest incident served as a wake-up call.
 
After going through that whole list (largely taken from wikipedia) it seems that his rap sheet really boils down to the following:

In 2004, as a college student he was arrested "on charges of assault on a law enforcement officer, refusal to obey, disorderly conduct and resisting an officer." It's not clear if he was actually convicted or not. My guess is he accepted a plea bargain. college students getting arrested on Halloween for assault is pretty common--basically he got into a fight and cops intervened. They charge you with disorderly conduct and resisting an officer if you look at them sideways (see the NY Fan being arrested in SD video...). This is a pretty minor deal in the big scheme of things and going back to college is pretty weak.

2) The first thing he is actually convicted of is a DWI in 2007.

When you boil down all these accusations and rumors and innuendos that's it--one DWI conviction.

That's not what I call a "long rap sheet."
:lmao:
 
Pretty good list, but I would change some things.

- I don't see a distinction between most of the 2nd tier guys and many of the 3rd tier guys. I would take Greg Jennings over anyone in the second tier and I don't think Austin/VJax/DJax are a tier above Holmes and Crabtree. I think DJax is particularly overrated since he's dependent on big plays for TDs and likely won't match his flukish TD total in future seasons (he had nearly the same amount of touches this season as he did last year, but scored 8 more TDs).
Bah!D Jackson’s nearly uncoverable and he is getting traction in the Philly system. His upside blended with his proven talent & production rightly places him in the upper tiers of WRs in the league. It’s interesting that in his second season, he did not suffer a fall back and he's knocked because of his ability to score from any point on the field? This is not a player that is spoon fed 1 yd LenDale White plunges, the fluke TD label is moot. If there’s any merit to the 3rd year WR bump, we are in for a show in the coming years.

Watching the Eagles, he is the player that you can't help but wait to see what happens next when the ball is in his hands (see Cribbs and Chris Johnson).

Dedicated passing offense + speed to burn + still developing player = yahtzee.

 
I'd move a few people up/down a few spots, but all in all, that's a pretty good list.

Love Calvin at #3, but I might actually move him to #1 just based on talent alone.

 
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From last year, "Knucklehead Clarification"

As Evan Silva pointed out a couple of weeks ago, I once coined the term “knucklehead factor” to describe Dynasty league players with high risks of losing value at a moment’s notice.

But what goes into being a true “knucklehead”? The term was born about five years ago when I tried to express why I never wanted Plaxico Burress on any of my Dynasty rosters despite his obvious talent. While several ingredients go into the knucklehead stew, the “legal woes” spotlight has recently drowned out the more subtle flavors.

Since his time in Pittsburgh, Plax has disrespected coaches, incurred fines, shown poor awareness on the field (spiking the ball without getting touched on more than one occasion), and disappeared/pouted for long stretches of games. That last point, especially, turned me off. Plax’s knucklehead issues weren’t limited to the off-the-field variety. His effort was often unreliable on the field.

Does Brandon Marshall have some of that in him? It’s tough to say. He hasn’t been known for hang-dogging on the field, but his on-field rap sheet includes a shouting match with his position coach, arriving to camp out of shape, and ripping fans. Not quite Plax territory, but worth noting considering his notorious extra-curricular activities.

What about Marshawn Lynch? I know I should be worried about his “knucklehead factor” considering his possession of an unlawful firearm and marijuana on top of the hit-and-run incident. But the Beast Mode doesn’t really scare me.

He hasn’t been a bad teammate or an insubordinate employee. What's more, his family, friends, and former coaches swear by his character. He’s yet to turn 23-years-old, so it’s plenty reasonable to believe his latest incident served as a wake-up call.
How does Vincent Jackson factor in to the knucklehead discussion? Before the biggest game of his life he gets cuffed and stuffed for driving on a suspended license, then proceeds to attempt a totally unmake able field goal with the challenge flag.
 
How does Vincent Jackson factor in to the knucklehead discussion? Before the biggest game of his life he gets cuffed and stuffed for driving on a suspended license, then proceeds to attempt a totally unmake able field goal with the challenge flag.
Agreed on Jackson and the knucklehead factor. I do not like him ranked that high for this very reason, along with the fact that I play in PPR leagues and he is not a guy who is ever going to catch 100 balls. Another guy that I'm leery about in regards to the knucklehead factor is DeSean Jackson. He has already had bad episodes on the field (dropping the ball before crossing the goal line, etc), and obviously has a big attitude/ego. Now he's complaining about wanting to get paid. He's a great player but I'd say he has a knucklehead factor to consider as well.
 
Pretty good list, but I would change some things.

- I don't see a distinction between most of the 2nd tier guys and many of the 3rd tier guys. I would take Greg Jennings over anyone in the second tier and I don't think Austin/VJax/DJax are a tier above Holmes and Crabtree. I think DJax is particularly overrated since he's dependent on big plays for TDs and likely won't match his flukish TD total in future seasons (he had nearly the same amount of touches this season as he did last year, but scored 8 more TDs).
Bah!D Jackson’s nearly uncoverable and he is getting traction in the Philly system. His upside blended with his proven talent & production rightly places him in the upper tiers of WRs in the league. It’s interesting that in his second season, he did not suffer a fall back and he's knocked because of his ability to score from any point on the field? This is not a player that is spoon fed 1 yd LenDale White plunges, the fluke TD label is moot. If there’s any merit to the 3rd year WR bump, we are in for a show in the coming years.

Watching the Eagles, he is the player that you can't help but wait to see what happens next when the ball is in his hands (see Cribbs and Chris Johnson).

Dedicated passing offense + speed to burn + still developing player = yahtzee.
I agree with this and initially thought he was ranked too low in the list. My 1 concern with DeSean though is just how long McNabb will be around. Other than that, I think the guys/rankings in tier 2 are all pretty interchangeable.
 
From last year, "Knucklehead Clarification"

As Evan Silva pointed out a couple of weeks ago, I once coined the term “knucklehead factor” to describe Dynasty league players with high risks of losing value at a moment’s notice.

But what goes into being a true “knucklehead”? The term was born about five years ago when I tried to express why I never wanted Plaxico Burress on any of my Dynasty rosters despite his obvious talent. While several ingredients go into the knucklehead stew, the “legal woes” spotlight has recently drowned out the more subtle flavors.

Since his time in Pittsburgh, Plax has disrespected coaches, incurred fines, shown poor awareness on the field (spiking the ball without getting touched on more than one occasion), and disappeared/pouted for long stretches of games. That last point, especially, turned me off. Plax’s knucklehead issues weren’t limited to the off-the-field variety. His effort was often unreliable on the field.

Does Brandon Marshall have some of that in him? It’s tough to say. He hasn’t been known for hang-dogging on the field, but his on-field rap sheet includes a shouting match with his position coach, arriving to camp out of shape, and ripping fans. Not quite Plax territory, but worth noting considering his notorious extra-curricular activities.

What about Marshawn Lynch? I know I should be worried about his “knucklehead factor” considering his possession of an unlawful firearm and marijuana on top of the hit-and-run incident. But the Beast Mode doesn’t really scare me.

He hasn’t been a bad teammate or an insubordinate employee. What's more, his family, friends, and former coaches swear by his character. He’s yet to turn 23-years-old, so it’s plenty reasonable to believe his latest incident served as a wake-up call.
How does Vincent Jackson factor in to the knucklehead discussion? Before the biggest game of his life he gets cuffed and stuffed for driving on a suspended license, then proceeds to attempt a totally unmake able field goal with the challenge flag.
I don't think V-Jax is a knucklehead. The DUI thing is an issue, but not enough for me to put him into knucklehead territory.

IIRC, the flag thing was done as a joke, he was smiling as he did it and the refs around him and even the Jets sideline was laughing with him. The only problem was the ref down the field didn't know he was joking around. It was a dumb mistake, but nothing that would show a knucklehead issue.

Also, V-Jax, I believe, was an academic All-American in college. We're not talking about an idiot with a history of bad choices (outside of the DUIs of course), or a rotten teammate, or a pain in the coaches' ####.

So, to sum up, I don't consider V-Jax a knucklehead. I know a short suspension is likely if he's convicted of the DUIs, but I'm OK with that. I don't expect it to be a problem going forward.

 
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Here's a recent article on V-Jax. I think he has a good head on his shoulders:

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — Even as he has ascended to near the top of his profession, his inclusion in this week’s Pro Bowl festivities here cementing his status as one of the NFL’s best wide receivers, Vincent Jackson knows there is a perception problem and a gap in trust.

To a certain extent, especially as it pertains to how his team feels about him, Jackson understands.

“Is it fair? Yes,” Jackson said as he stood in the players’ hotel after a Pro Bowl practice this week. “It’s part of the business.”

Jackson spoke specifically of the Chargers’ decision to take a wait-and-see approach in regards to his long-term future with the team. Jackson is coming off consecutive career years, yet due to the specter of 2010 being uncapped, he will likely be a restricted free agent, under the club’s control with no multiyear contract yet being discussed between the parties.

“Everything comes into consideration when (a team makes) a decision like that,” Jackson said.

There is no question Jackson has become an elite receiver. His 17.2-yard average was tops by far among those with more than 50 receptions. His 1,167 yards were tied for sixth, his nine receiving touchdowns tied for fifth.

But what is being considered these days regarding Jackson, in the Pro Bowl because Indianapolis’ Reggie Wayne is in the Super Bowl, is his off-field driving issues.

Jackson has twice since 2006 been arrested for driving under the influence. A pending case from January 2009 could result in his being suspended by the NFL at the start of the 2010 season. And on the morning of the Chargers’ playoff loss to the New York Jets, Jackson was cited for driving with a suspended license.

Jackson said he got to the stadium in time to “go through my routine” and ended up catching seven passes for 111 yards.

“It was in the back of my mind,” he said. “But obviously I went out and had a decent game.”

Jackson did do one thing in that game that, while ultimately not costing the Chargers points, was symbolic of the team’s overall meltdown. After making a spectacular sideline catch in the fourth quarter, which the Jets unsuccessfully challenged, Jackson kicked the red challenge flag thrown by Jets coach Rex Ryan.

“It was more of a joking thing than a negative attitude,” Jackson said. “I was smiling. Their sideline was smiling. The referee was smiling. Unfortunately the back judge didn’t see it that way.”

Jackson did say, “If I had it to do over again, I wouldn’t kick the flag.”

Jackson sounds, too, as if he would have made some other choices differently.

He maintains he does not have a drinking problem, a belief he says was supported by counselors in the extensive NFL-mandated program he went through last offseason after his DUI arrest.

“They did see some bad choices were being made,” he said.

But Jackson believes that to draw a line from his troubles to his having bad character is unjust.

“I think my character is my strength,” said Jackson. “I’m not a crazy guy. I’m pretty quiet. I keep to myself.”

Whatever the perception, there does appear to be combating facets of Jackson’s behavior.

One of the team’s most well-spoken players, Jackson was an Academic All-American in college.

He is known as one of the best blocking receivers in the NFL, and unlike some of the league’s elite pass catchers, he runs his routes with precision and to fruition every time.

Jets cornerback Darrelle Revis was reluctant to lavish praise on Jackson, saying yesterday, “I faced a lot of good receivers this year.” But Revis, who went against Jackson for about half of the snaps in this month’s playoff game, smiled broadly and shook his head in the affirmative when asked about that aspect of Jackson’s game.

“The one thing I did notice is his worth ethic,” Revis said. “You can tell how he plays. He’s physical, and he’s always trying to finish.”

Chargers General Manager A.J. Smith said recently how much he appreciates the way Jackson works. And head coach Norv Turner has gushed about the improvement Jackson has made since Turner arrived in 2007.

“Every year he has gotten better,” Turner said. “You don’t get better if you don’t work at it. He has. He’s committed to doing things right on the field. There’s no question he’s got great work ethic and strong character. He’s continuing to grow as a person, and that’s something we’re going to continue to stress with him. Some things need to be different.”

Jackson’s goal is to in a few years have changed the topic of conversation, to make his play the thing that is discussed.

“I do think there is a lot more attention paid to the negative in my life than the positive,” said Jackson, who participates in several charitable activities. “The negative brings more attention. I’ve made some changes. I’m going to handle it the best way I can to get it behind me as soon as I can.”
 
IMO Fitz is not a top 5 dynasty WR right now, much less #1.
:lmao:
I realize it's against the grain. I'll be interested to see the projections for Fitz that roll out prior to next season. I think he'll get fewer targets and will be less productive on a per target basis, assuming Leinart is his QB. :unsure:
Could still make top 5 but with a loss of Warner and potential loss of Boldin, I would expect a switch to more of a running game to protect Leinart. Thus less targets and if Boldin is gone, expect some heavier coverage rolled Fitz way including triple teams.
 
84. Limas Sweed, Steelers | Age: 25.9 – Has the talent, but started off on the wrong foot in Pittsburgh and has struggled to right himself.
even at #84 this seems like a stretch. a change of scenery may fix that but any value he has depends on where he plays next year.
 
Pretty good list, but I would change some things.

- I don't see a distinction between most of the 2nd tier guys and many of the 3rd tier guys. I would take Greg Jennings over anyone in the second tier and I don't think Austin/VJax/DJax are a tier above Holmes and Crabtree. I think DJax is particularly overrated since he's dependent on big plays for TDs and likely won't match his flukish TD total in future seasons (he had nearly the same amount of touches this season as he did last year, but scored 8 more TDs).
Bah!D Jackson’s nearly uncoverable and he is getting traction in the Philly system. His upside blended with his proven talent & production rightly places him in the upper tiers of WRs in the league. It’s interesting that in his second season, he did not suffer a fall back and he's knocked because of his ability to score from any point on the field? This is not a player that is spoon fed 1 yd LenDale White plunges, the fluke TD label is moot. If there’s any merit to the 3rd year WR bump, we are in for a show in the coming years.

Watching the Eagles, he is the player that you can't help but wait to see what happens next when the ball is in his hands (see Cribbs and Chris Johnson).

Dedicated passing offense + speed to burn + still developing player = yahtzee.
He had virtually the same amount of touches in 2008 as he did in 2009, but his TD total went up by 8. So either he had a flukishly low amount of scores in 2008 or a flukishly high amount of scores in 2009. I'd guess that the answer lies somewhere in between. He'll probably level off and be a 6-8 TD per year guy over the course of his career. I like him as a player. I think he's a dynasty WR2 though.

 
EBF said:
He had virtually the same amount of touches in 2008 as he did in 2009, but his TD total went up by 8. So either he had a flukishly low amount of scores in 2008 or a flukishly high amount of scores in 2009. I'd guess that the answer lies somewhere in between. He'll probably level off and be a 6-8 TD per year guy over the course of his career.

I like him as a player. I think he's a dynasty WR2 though.
he also had nearly the same number of targets season-to-season too. i'm not saying he's already peaked but there isn't much room for him to grow in that offense. IIRC the eagles last year were in the top 5 in pass attempts but also in the bottom 5 in rushing attempts. if they shoot for a more balanced offense it hurts a player like desean's numbers. if maclin, mccoy or celek continue to develop then it's going to take targets away from desean in all likelihood too. the numbers just don't seem to work in desean's favor in the system now.
 
How does Vincent Jackson factor in to the knucklehead discussion? Before the biggest game of his life he gets cuffed and stuffed for driving on a suspended license, then proceeds to attempt a totally unmake able field goal with the challenge flag.
Agreed on Jackson and the knucklehead factor. I do not like him ranked that high for this very reason, along with the fact that I play in PPR leagues and he is not a guy who is ever going to catch 100 balls. Another guy that I'm leery about in regards to the knucklehead factor is DeSean Jackson. He has already had bad episodes on the field (dropping the ball before crossing the goal line, etc), and obviously has a big attitude/ego. Now he's complaining about wanting to get paid. He's a great player but I'd say he has a knucklehead factor to consider as well.
I like a lot of what Fear and Loathing says and think he has a lot of football knowledge and I come back here often to read him. But he has a blindspot IMO when it comes to Marshall. If you want to use a "knucklehead" factor, fine. But then apply it to all. So what is the explanation for why it is overlooked in the case of VJax or Bowe? And at a minimum only include things that really are legally proven or common knowledge. You could include things like his alleged attitude for what he did in camp during preseason if you want, but the Williams accusation and the accusation that his girl friend "is going to get him"??? Much of what is in the "rap" sheet doesn't meet the standard of certainty that it should when you are accusing someone of something.Also, you have to consider how far down to knock him for it. Most people would agree he is a top 3 or 4 WR in terms of performance, certainly in PPR. He is a top tier WR; so do you knock him down into the second tier? Fine. But to the bottom of the third tier? I can't imagine any Marshall owner trading him for the players that he is ranked near.Personally, I am willing to overlook things that are not proven in a court of law because it is so easy for people to make accusations. I also am willing to overlook mistakes that a young man makes because most young men grow up, and I have already seen a lot of growth in Marshall this year. Most of his alleged problems go back to 2007 or earlier. Yes, he had some problems with McFool this year, but so did a lot of other people, which tells me it is at least as much about McFool as it is about Marshall. Cutler, Scheffler, Nolan... The guy has shown that he likes to air dirty laundry in public and he is clearly a control freak. So while I don't condone Marshall's pre-season behavior with McFool, I DO understand it better now. Soon he will be with a new team and I suspect it will be one that knows what Marshall is like and will know how to work with him. Randy Moss has had issues with his coaches and teams over the years and I wouldn't have wanted to be the fantasy player who sold him low in his fourth season because of the incident with the traffic meter woman, for example, or because of allegations that he took plays off or challenged the coaches.
 
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I tend to agree re: Marshall. He may be a knucklehead, but he's a knucklehead who has exceeded 100 receptions three years in a row. Unless he manages to get suspended or killed, there's no reason to think he won't remain an elite player for 3-4 more years (maybe much longer than that). Terrell Owens has had a brilliant career despite being a huge clown. That's because teams will always find room for special players no matter how grating their personalities may be.

Marshall is a special player who will put up stats on any team in any system. His youth/production combination places him in the same tier as Fitzgerald, Calvin, and Andre. I agree that you can bump him down into the next tier because of his character issues, but anything more than that seems too severe.

 
great job by F & L... don't always agree (usually, though), but encompassing and gives rationale, so grist for the scouting mill... i appreciate that it isn't too odd ball, but imo he picks some nice, cogent shots for the contrarian, unorthodox picks...

desean, calvin and austin are coveted because they are the youngest among the top 10 best of the best WRs on this list... by the 2010 season, 24, 25 & 26, respectively...

really like the austin ( :goodposting: ) and nicks rankings...

imo, hester too low (i thought this even pre-martz hire)...

a few things caught my eye last year...

1 - he was in the top 15-20 in one of my leagues approx mid-season, before suffering an injury (he didn't finish strong, not sure how much of that was lingering injury, OL problems?).

2 - waldman mentioned in one of the monday upgrade articles in-season (paraphrasing here), that unlike some other speed merchants, hester actually had natural/learned receiving skills, and was capable of catching with his hands.

3 - cutler seemed to be targeting hester increasingly until the aforementioned in-season injury (including his first 100 yard game).

* another observation about him... he was a multi-position athlete in college (including CB), if not as accomplished as harvin, and was primarily a KR as a bear initially... viewing his NFL body of work as a whole, you could make a case the arc and trajectory of his career is pointed up...

for more contextual/systemic causes for optimism, if cutler can avoid getting killed until they upgrade the OL, martz "resurrects" his career and stays for a few seasons, hester could have a lot of upside... if he can stay healthy, a sustained replication of last years first half numbers yield top 20 upside...

** a parting thought on hester... if he does have natural receiving skills, is still developing and has elite speed, a nice bonus is his world class return/open field running skills once he has the ball in his hands...

*** difference of opinion on brandon marshall don't make F & L or a given poster intrinsically right or wrong (like an eskimo and sub-saharan native disagreeing/arguing over whether 60 degrees was REALLY cold or hot)... obviously they reflect individual difference in risk aversion/tolerance... what the right balance is can diverge wildly... for myself, don't know if i would wait until 18, but i would definitely wait a while, and try and find other WRs to pick first in a dynasty league... he isn't lawrence phillips bonehead/troubled, but he has among the deservedly worst notoriety in the NFL... if you take a guy like that high, you HAVE to factor in the very real chance he could be facing future legal issues/suspensions, based on his history. he could turn things around... maybe he already has? but maybe he hasn't. there is no way i know to tell for sure. of course there is uncertainty with any pick. but few have a past as alarming and disturbing... in general, i don't like to take on players with that kind of baggage, unless i can absolutely help it (like he plummets to ridiculous valuations)... bad decisions in dynasty can haunt you for years (flipside is a savvy one can bolster you for years), so i don't like to risk blowing an early pick... later, key depth picks i am more likely to take risks and accept the possible big loss on the tradeoff/equation, for the potential massive upside/payoff...

 
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Disagree on Hester. I posted more rationale in his spotlight thread last year, but I don't think he is a natural WR at all. He may be learning, but learning at age 27 is tough. Not many WRs emerge at that age or later with real fantasy value.

IMO he is not a #1 NFL WR and has been put into that role only because of the lack of other options on the team. And given the potential shown by Aromashadu and Knox, I just don't think the targets are going to be there for Hester to significantly outperform F&L's ranking here.

ETA: Hester averaged 5.2 YAC per reception, which tied for #25 in the league. That's pretty good, but I'm not sure it is as good as "world class open field running skills" might imply. :thumbup:

 
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I tend to agree re: Marshall. He may be a knucklehead, but he's a knucklehead who has exceeded 100 receptions three years in a row. Unless he manages to get suspended or killed, there's no reason to think he won't remain an elite player for 3-4 more years (maybe much longer than that). Terrell Owens has had a brilliant career despite being a huge clown. That's because teams will always find room for special players no matter how grating their personalities may be.
Those are legitimate concerns, along with "jailed." I will actually be shocked if he's not suspended or jailed in the next two years.

 

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