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Clash of Clans (Official thread) (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter GregR
- Start date
freeannyong
Footballguy
The warden needs a lot of weight. And if they actually do give it a lot that will kill 10.5 (which I was considering but this seems to squash that) . 40/40 next stop
culdeus
Footballguy
what this really might help is stop 20/20/10 mass witch just rolling max TH10s. Because they won't mirror them anymore.
The fact they are doing something is better than nothing. Though I know a few that will be rolling in their graves over these.
They can't fix it all. People will always find a way to make the most out of the algos.
Black Box
Footballguy
Agreed. But I think this is a step in the right direction, overall. The current matching system was overly simplistic and easy to exploit imo.
I especially like the "win streak" stat, and weighting based on recent performance. That will help clans from dropping out in wars if they're not very good.
Though these changes will most likely sink arranged matches (bad) and ambushes (good).
beer 30
Footballguy
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
The Animator
Footballguy
Turn away Beer.... This post will melt your brain... Don't say I didn't warn you.
I watched a of a couple of wonderful hits by FBGs LordRyan that made me want to do a cost analysis of his "Big Army" hits, and his average take, compared to my normal expectations for my GiGob hits. This uses an average amount we both expect to get from our hits as a baseline, but as we all know, sometimes it goes up considerably.
When I use GiGob as a DE extraction technique, the G/E varies, so it was not calculated. When I am not hunting for DE using the same troops, my troop usage per hit varies wildly, and I would need to keep track of it.
This write-up assumes that every hit you use every troop/spell which ends in a perfect hit. I know that for my hits, they very in the amount of troops/spells I will throw at a base to get what I want from it. So this is a "worst case" scenario. See below for risk assessment for the non-perfect hit comparison.
1500 DE Golem x2
480 DE Quake x3
42,000 e Giants x12
42,000 e Wbs x12
40,000 e Wiz x10
40,000 e Healers x4
99,000 e Rage x3
35,000 e Freeze x3
Giant 6min
Wiz 20min
Healer 15min
WBs 6min
Army Cost Total
1980 DE
298,000 Elix
Bake Time
Troop DE 45 min
Troop Elix 47min
Spell 120 min
Spell DE 45 min
Master2 bonus
135,000 Gold
135,000 Elix
740 DE
Bonus minus Troop cost
+135,000 gold
-163,000 elix
-1240 de
Every 47 min if you spend 5 gems each raid
Every 120 min for no gems
Average raid
400,000 g
400,000 e
4000 de
Take Home
535,000 gold
237,000 Elix
2760 de
130 de Hogs
140 De spells (poison)
84,000 e Giants x24
14,000 e WBs x4
15,300 e Gobs x102
88,000 e Spells (1 Jump + 1 Rage + 1 Heal)
Giants 12 min
Gobs 13 min
Wbs 2 min
Army Cost Total
270 de
201,300 elix
Bake Time
Troop DE 2 min
Troop Elix 27min
Spell 80min
Spell DE 15min
No Bonus (aka worst case) minus Troop cost
-201,300 Elix
-207 De
Every 27 min if you spend 5 gems every 3 (?) raids
Every 80 min for no gems
Average raid - DE hunting
??? g
??? e
3000 de
Take Home
??? g
??? e
2793 de
Time metric 12hr (aka no life)
Big Army 15 times per day
8,025,000 g
3,555,000 e
41,400 de
GiGob 26 times per day
72,618 de
Time metric 5hr
Big Army 6 times per day
3,210,000 g
1,422,000 e
16,560 de
GiGob 11 times per day
30,723 de
Time metric 2hr
Big Army 2 times per day
1,070,000 g
474,000 e
5,520 de
GiGob 4 times per day
11,172 de
Risk Assessment (assuming failure rate is consistent)
Big Army 4 hits and 1 failure (3.91 hours)
11,040 de - 1980 de = 9,060 de
Each time you go out you risk 1980 DE and 47 min of troop build time
GiGob 4 hits and 1 failure (2.25 hours)
11,172 de - 270 de = 10,902
Each time you go out you risk 270 DE and 27 min of troop build time
*1 out of 5 hits failed was a arbitrary value that I would be personally not happy with but used as a point of illustration only
I was suprised how similar the "Take Home" per hit was for each attack. Where you see the difference is the amount of hits you can do per hour and the amount of risk you have per attack if you fail. Interesting.
I watched a of a couple of wonderful hits by FBGs LordRyan that made me want to do a cost analysis of his "Big Army" hits, and his average take, compared to my normal expectations for my GiGob hits. This uses an average amount we both expect to get from our hits as a baseline, but as we all know, sometimes it goes up considerably.
When I use GiGob as a DE extraction technique, the G/E varies, so it was not calculated. When I am not hunting for DE using the same troops, my troop usage per hit varies wildly, and I would need to keep track of it.
This write-up assumes that every hit you use every troop/spell which ends in a perfect hit. I know that for my hits, they very in the amount of troops/spells I will throw at a base to get what I want from it. So this is a "worst case" scenario. See below for risk assessment for the non-perfect hit comparison.
Lord Ryan Masters 2 / Big Army Sample
1500 DE Golem x2
480 DE Quake x3
42,000 e Giants x12
42,000 e Wbs x12
40,000 e Wiz x10
40,000 e Healers x4
99,000 e Rage x3
35,000 e Freeze x3
Giant 6min
Wiz 20min
Healer 15min
WBs 6min
Army Cost Total
1980 DE
298,000 Elix
Bake Time
Troop DE 45 min
Troop Elix 47min
Spell 120 min
Spell DE 45 min
Master2 bonus
135,000 Gold
135,000 Elix
740 DE
Bonus minus Troop cost
+135,000 gold
-163,000 elix
-1240 de
Every 47 min if you spend 5 gems each raid
Every 120 min for no gems
Average raid
400,000 g
400,000 e
4000 de
Take Home
535,000 gold
237,000 Elix
2760 de
GiGob Sample
130 de Hogs
140 De spells (poison)
84,000 e Giants x24
14,000 e WBs x4
15,300 e Gobs x102
88,000 e Spells (1 Jump + 1 Rage + 1 Heal)
Giants 12 min
Gobs 13 min
Wbs 2 min
Army Cost Total
270 de
201,300 elix
Bake Time
Troop DE 2 min
Troop Elix 27min
Spell 80min
Spell DE 15min
No Bonus (aka worst case) minus Troop cost
-201,300 Elix
-207 De
Every 27 min if you spend 5 gems every 3 (?) raids
Every 80 min for no gems
Average raid - DE hunting
??? g
??? e
3000 de
Take Home
??? g
??? e
2793 de
Raid Repetition (how many hits you can do in "X" amount of hours)
Time metric 12hr (aka no life)
Big Army 15 times per day
8,025,000 g
3,555,000 e
41,400 de
GiGob 26 times per day
72,618 de
Time metric 5hr
Big Army 6 times per day
3,210,000 g
1,422,000 e
16,560 de
GiGob 11 times per day
30,723 de
Time metric 2hr
Big Army 2 times per day
1,070,000 g
474,000 e
5,520 de
GiGob 4 times per day
11,172 de
Risk Assessment (assuming failure rate is consistent)
Big Army 4 hits and 1 failure (3.91 hours)
11,040 de - 1980 de = 9,060 de
Each time you go out you risk 1980 DE and 47 min of troop build time
GiGob 4 hits and 1 failure (2.25 hours)
11,172 de - 270 de = 10,902
Each time you go out you risk 270 DE and 27 min of troop build time
*1 out of 5 hits failed was a arbitrary value that I would be personally not happy with but used as a point of illustration only
I was suprised how similar the "Take Home" per hit was for each attack. Where you see the difference is the amount of hits you can do per hour and the amount of risk you have per attack if you fail. Interesting.
The Animator
Footballguy
Footnote: For the "Big Army" strike to have the same sort of earnings per hour, you would need to add approximately 2000 de per strike. Most of that would probably have to come from the better loot bonuses of higher trophy levels, but then you'd also have to deal with loot loss from more people attacking you. Then there is the matter of Heroes... I'd have to assume failure rate of the big army goes up when heroes are sleeping. Where GiGob is a "No Hero Required" attack. Hard to quantify that in numbers.
Well I hope you find that interesting. I did.
Well I hope you find that interesting. I did.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Did they seriously wipe out replays just to drop a Clash Royale ad?
culdeus
Footballguy
Dropped into honda to see if I could pull one more sub, but forgot that you guys war off phase from fbgs.
I'd like to know how you all can sustain a war clan with such light weight? Is your 11 really ok with all that pressure? Why can't you guys pull moredoor's login info and have someone hit for him? Or greg's even?
I mean in the situation I saw they have 3 bullies including 1 double bully. So unless they are just awful they are going to wipe your 9s out leaving you with one shot really to win on % vs. the 11 unless you can reasonably hit up to get it with a th9 (I've seen this done btw alot, so it is feasible)
I don't think this is a matchmaker issue, but one you guys need to deal with. The update might even make this situation worse. It's basically saying you will always draw something big on the top end.
I'd like to know how you all can sustain a war clan with such light weight? Is your 11 really ok with all that pressure? Why can't you guys pull moredoor's login info and have someone hit for him? Or greg's even?
I mean in the situation I saw they have 3 bullies including 1 double bully. So unless they are just awful they are going to wipe your 9s out leaving you with one shot really to win on % vs. the 11 unless you can reasonably hit up to get it with a th9 (I've seen this done btw alot, so it is feasible)
I don't think this is a matchmaker issue, but one you guys need to deal with. The update might even make this situation worse. It's basically saying you will always draw something big on the top end.
beer 30
Footballguy
Because we ####### rock of course.
Well they rock, I kind of just go along for the ride.
I honestly have no idea what you are saying.
What light weight? What 11?
They have 3 bullies and 1 double bully? They have a 1 TH11 and 1 TH10. We have 1 TH11 and 0 TH10. Not the first time and we've won lots of wars despite that. We will probably have Kevvy attack their TH10, and then he will wait till later to see if he needs to attack their TH11 or destroy a TH9. Minus the war that shall not be mentioned, we've had destruction % north of 92% for the past 10 wars.
culdeus
Footballguy
Bully means they have 1 TH advantage where they aregoing to be hitting below their TH
Double bully means they have a 2 TH advantage where they will hit two below their TH
In this case you have no 10s and 1 11 so to start the war they have theoretically an 11 hitting a 9 and a 10 hitting 2 9s.
So in this war you will likely see them clear all the 9s unless they blow, then you just win on stars, if they clear the 9s and you do as well it comes down to one base, the 11 and what your 11 and maybe your 9s hang on it?
Clear?
Yeah, they are +2 on us before the bell rings. We've only seen one war, and they obviously cheated, where they cleared all our TH9s. It's not uncommon to see this.
How are we light weight? Because we have one Th11? Not sure why you say hardly fun...we've had a blast of late.
culdeus
Footballguy
Yes light weight, because one single 11. I would be a nervous wreck having that type of pressure. And I already sweat balls as it is normally.
Shoot_Me_Now
Footballguy
Culd you realize you're talking about basically what you guys are doing in arranged matches right? 35 v 35 here and each side had 3 th10. It was going to come down to those 3 bases. So....how is that fun?
culdeus
Footballguy
Because it's what we agreed to and we knew the TH comp was fair. When you do farm wars you have no such confidence. I'm in a war with 1-11 and 2-10s right now. It was agreed to. If I didn't want to do it I wouldn't have signed up.
Our sparta war has I think 6 TH10 and 0 TH11. Can't remember. If you dm me on gme I'll show the rosters.
beer 30
Footballguy
You should hang with us then, we're chill ;-)
And we ####### pound. Seriously, aside form my Acer-like abilities, Honda has rocked TH9's lately, that's our strength. There is some pressure but I'd think if you ask kevv we try to place him in a position where he isn't carrying the war on his shoulders and at the end of the day, it's 2 attacks. We've overcome it for pretty much, ever. Because we ####### rock but I've covered that already.
culdeus
Footballguy
Just so all you all know Cliff, Tam, and Yoga are joining me and some RWCS, members of onehive genesis, and mt. dumplins and maybe someone from this clan I'm in now Heroes Realm to take on We Are Sparta which consists of their all stars from a 3-4 clan grouping.
I am really, really excited to get you guys involved in this. Everyone on the RWCS side is really excited. I've hyped Yoga to the extreme. No turning back on that now.
We should have a streamer or two at times for this. It's a pure try hard war for pride.
I am really, really excited to get you guys involved in this. Everyone on the RWCS side is really excited. I've hyped Yoga to the extreme. No turning back on that now.
We should have a streamer or two at times for this. It's a pure try hard war for pride.
Shoot_Me_Now
Footballguy
Arranged wars with great players up and down the roster so you know the end result comes down to the few th10 that are playing is a great time because we signed up for it.
Random wars with a slight disadvantage in the match but a mix of great, good, and not so good players so the th9 attacks actually matter is terrible and boring because of that one th11.
I think there's a lot of disagreement to be had there.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Going to throw down a GoWiPe on my first attack to watch everyone freak out 
culdeus
Footballguy
Sure, of course. If Kev is ok with it that's fine but I wouldn't want to go into a random match just begging to get blasted by the matchmaker and leaning on one guy to overcome the system. It's not fair to kev, unless he doesn't really care and the rest of the clan doesn't really care, then it's fine. Same with arranged, if you are ok with the idea that you are going to be the pin that holds it together then fine.
Keep in mind that OHG war I "won" it on defense. We lost on % because I choked my second raid, but won on stars because they only got 1 star on me. 2 stars and they had it on % so there's that.
Since that war OHG has added a ton of weight to prevent that exact situation, they don't take lighter bases anymore and as such have flushed a lot of low weight. People privately have joked that that single raid blew up OHG, but that's not really true. they are just reacting to the current state of the game.
Our current matchup isn't the norm. Usually, the matchup is the same at the top. Two wars ago, with Kev in the lineup, we faced a clan with no TH11s or TH10s. Sometimes, we have Kev and a TH10. We normally match up against the same.
But what could we do about it? We aren't going to make our TH10s war if they don't want to.
culdeus
Footballguy
Well theoretically new matchmake rules will change the ways these things sort. Then all bets are off. Not sure what you do about it long term.
Whatever the possible theoretical implications of our current base mix of base levels, in practice whether Honda wins a war or not rarely actually hinges on my hitting it out of the park. Which is a very good thing, because if it did, we would be losing many more wars! And I likely wouldn't war very much.
The "responsibility" is diffused through the clan, and in particular, it is the th9s job to make sure that the modesty of my skills is irrelevant to the war outcome.
Our last war was even more lopsided at the top -- which isn't the norm -- and the rest of the clan had cleaned up the enemy th9s so well that I didn't even have to do my second attack in order to achieve the win.
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freeannyong
Footballguy
I'll miss my queen ability like I did today...Going to throw down a GoWiPe on my first attack to watch everyone freak out
culdeus
Footballguy
freeannyong
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
AcerFC
Footballguy
Honestly, I have a lot more fun playing royale than clans. Not enough to pay them for it, but fun wise, royale > clans for me
The Future Champs
Footballguy
Based on the name and image, going to bet that the rocketeer jumps over one or more walls and targets a defensive structure with a wb style single explosion. Fun.
The Future Champs
Footballguy
Not happy to see the healer nerf though. AQ walks are fun, and it's not like they're unbalancing wars.
The Future Champs
Footballguy
Finally, a chain lightning rush could be epic. But used in small quantities it's probably a pretty useless addition.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
JFC talk about serious business. I'm not allowed to run a Cliff because the masters did not approve of my plan...
MindCrime
Footballguy
You shoulda pulled the "Do you know who I am??!!" Card. "It's called the "Cliff" attack for a reason!"
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
I might. 0-7 on max 9s and Cliff isn't allowed to Cliff
Beerguzzler
Footballguy
0-7 on a 9? LolI might. 0-7 on max 9s and Cliff isn't allowed to Cliff
Why are you warring with scrubs cliff.
Beerguzzler
Footballguy
I will be pissdd if they take away my queen walks. Not happy at those changes. It's not like it's a face roll attack.
