Cliff Lee (1 Viewer)

[MAC_32]

I just executed a deal to get me Victorino and Todd Jones in exchange for Votto and Cliff Lee.

I have a deal on the table that nets me Kevin Gregg and Matt Kemp for Cliff Lee and Votto, I'm waffling and waiting on responses to some other feeler's.

League #3, haven't tried to formualte anything just yet, probably try to swing a 2-for-1 deal and upgrade my C (Molina) or SS (O Cab) and free up a roster spot for SP streaming.

 

[Wrigley]

I just executed a deal to get me Victorino and Todd Jones in exchange for Votto and Cliff Lee.I have a deal on the table that nets me Kevin Gregg and Matt Kemp for Cliff Lee and Votto, I'm waffling and waiting on responses to some other feeler's.League #3, haven't tried to formualte anything just yet, probably try to swing a 2-for-1 deal and upgrade my C (Molina) or SS (O Cab) and free up a roster spot for SP streaming.

I've offered him up to half the league.Asking for SB's mostly.I do have a flier out there to get Lackey for Lee straight up.

 

[shadyridr]

I just executed a deal to get me Victorino and Todd Jones in exchange for Votto and Cliff Lee.

I have a deal on the table that nets me Kevin Gregg and Matt Kemp for Cliff Lee and Votto, I'm waffling and waiting on responses to some other feeler's.

League #3, haven't tried to formualte anything just yet, probably try to swing a 2-for-1 deal and upgrade my C (Molina) or SS (O Cab) and free up a roster spot for SP streaming.

seriously? The 2nd deal seems fair.

 

[MAC_32]

I just executed a deal to get me Victorino and Todd Jones in exchange for Votto and Cliff Lee.

I have a deal on the table that nets me Kevin Gregg and Matt Kemp for Cliff Lee and Votto, I'm waffling and waiting on responses to some other feeler's.

League #3, haven't tried to formualte anything just yet, probably try to swing a 2-for-1 deal and upgrade my C (Molina) or SS (O Cab) and free up a roster spot for SP streaming.

seriously? The 2nd deal seems fair.

Seriously, took advantage of an owner who's having some serious SP issues headlined by CC and Liriano.I'm waffling on #2 because I'm concerned Gregg may be traded before the deadline to a team who will use him as a setup man. Otherwise I'd have already accepted it.

 

[shadyridr]

I just executed a deal to get me Victorino and Todd Jones in exchange for Votto and Cliff Lee.

I have a deal on the table that nets me Kevin Gregg and Matt Kemp for Cliff Lee and Votto, I'm waffling and waiting on responses to some other feeler's.

League #3, haven't tried to formualte anything just yet, probably try to swing a 2-for-1 deal and upgrade my C (Molina) or SS (O Cab) and free up a roster spot for SP streaming.

seriously? The 2nd deal seems fair.

Seriously, took advantage of an owner who's having some serious SP issues headlined by CC and Liriano.I'm waffling on #2 because I'm concerned Gregg may be traded before the deadline to a team who will use him as a setup man. Otherwise I'd have already accepted it.

I was saying seriously cuz I think you got hosed on the first deal. Victorino may not even get his job back and Todd Jones sucks.

 

[MAC_32]

I just executed a deal to get me Victorino and Todd Jones in exchange for Votto and Cliff Lee.

I have a deal on the table that nets me Kevin Gregg and Matt Kemp for Cliff Lee and Votto, I'm waffling and waiting on responses to some other feeler's.

League #3, haven't tried to formualte anything just yet, probably try to swing a 2-for-1 deal and upgrade my C (Molina) or SS (O Cab) and free up a roster spot for SP streaming.

seriously? The 2nd deal seems fair.

Seriously, took advantage of an owner who's having some serious SP issues headlined by CC and Liriano.I'm waffling on #2 because I'm concerned Gregg may be traded before the deadline to a team who will use him as a setup man. Otherwise I'd have already accepted it.

I was saying seriously cuz I think you got hosed on the first deal. Victorino may not even get his job back and Todd Jones sucks.

You honestly think the career backups currently manning Philly's OF are going to keep Victorino on the bench? I don't see that at all. Off days? Yea, but no more than Votto and I needed more speed and R's a lot more than power/avg. I think platooning Victorino with Bourn and Hamilton will do my team better than riding it out with Votto. Whether Todd Jones sucks or not, the closer job is his. Saves are saves and with a team ERA under 3 and a WHIP under 1.1 I think I can manage with him.

 

[shadyridr]

I just executed a deal to get me Victorino and Todd Jones in exchange for Votto and Cliff Lee.

I have a deal on the table that nets me Kevin Gregg and Matt Kemp for Cliff Lee and Votto, I'm waffling and waiting on responses to some other feeler's.

League #3, haven't tried to formualte anything just yet, probably try to swing a 2-for-1 deal and upgrade my C (Molina) or SS (O Cab) and free up a roster spot for SP streaming.

seriously? The 2nd deal seems fair.

Seriously, took advantage of an owner who's having some serious SP issues headlined by CC and Liriano.I'm waffling on #2 because I'm concerned Gregg may be traded before the deadline to a team who will use him as a setup man. Otherwise I'd have already accepted it.

I was saying seriously cuz I think you got hosed on the first deal. Victorino may not even get his job back and Todd Jones sucks.

You honestly think the career backups currently manning Philly's OF are going to keep Victorino on the bench? I don't see that at all. Off days? Yea, but no more than Votto and I needed more speed and R's a lot more than power/avg. I think platooning Victorino with Bourn and Hamilton will do my team better than riding it out with Votto. Whether Todd Jones sucks or not, the closer job is his. Saves are saves and with a team ERA under 3 and a WHIP under 1.1 I think I can manage with him.

Its well known that Victorino is in Manuel's doghouse already (that started late last year). The way Werth is playing and the way Manuel glowingly talks about Werth it wouldnt surprise me in the least. Also, how much value does Victorino actually have? I dont think much at this point.

 

[shadyridr]

From yesterday's Philadelphia Daily News:

Werth proving his Charlie Manuel has said since the start of spring that every player on the roster has the opportunity to play his way into a more prominent role.Charlie Manuel has said since the start of spring that every player on the roster has the opportunity to play his way into a more prominent role. It is still early, but one player who might be doing that is outfielder Jayson Werth. Originally scheduled to share time with Jenkins in rightfield, the 28-year-old righthander has seen his playing time increase due to the injuries suffered by centerfielder Shane Victorino and shortstop Jimmy Rollins. Werth has hit .293 with a .370 on-base percentage since Rollins went down, forcing him into the top of the order. He has also played well in centerfield in place of Victorino.Werth hit .298 last season in 255 at-bats for the Phillies, who signed him as a free agent in 2006 after 3 years with the Dodgers."When we got Jayson Werth we all knew how big of an upside he had in talent," Manuel said. "Our main thing with Jayson Werth is getting him to be consistent and getting to a place where we can use that talent every day. If he keeps playing consistently and doing what he's been doing, who knows? Something's got to give."

 

[Spartans Rule]

If these deals are indicative of Cliff Lee's value right now, I'd say he's a guy you want to hold on to.

29 K, 2 BB. That's amazing command. You can't just pitch like that by accident.

I know it defies logic, but there's something different about Lee this year. He obviously won't end up with an 0.28 ERA, but I think there's a pretty good chance he finishes with some great numbers.

If I was going to deal him (which I'm not), I'd want a real solid everyday player or a proven top-notch SP.

 

[Spartans Rule]

You honestly think the career backups currently manning Philly's OF are going to keep Victorino on the bench?

You say career backups like Victorino is some kind of established stud. He's had significant playing time for all of two years, with a high of 510 PA last year.His fantasy value is derived from stealing bases and being surrounded by talent in the Phillies lineup. With a .733 career OPS, he's not exactly indispensable as a real-life player.

 

[MAC_32]

I just executed a deal to get me Victorino and Todd Jones in exchange for Votto and Cliff Lee.

I have a deal on the table that nets me Kevin Gregg and Matt Kemp for Cliff Lee and Votto, I'm waffling and waiting on responses to some other feeler's.

League #3, haven't tried to formualte anything just yet, probably try to swing a 2-for-1 deal and upgrade my C (Molina) or SS (O Cab) and free up a roster spot for SP streaming.

seriously? The 2nd deal seems fair.

Seriously, took advantage of an owner who's having some serious SP issues headlined by CC and Liriano.I'm waffling on #2 because I'm concerned Gregg may be traded before the deadline to a team who will use him as a setup man. Otherwise I'd have already accepted it.

I was saying seriously cuz I think you got hosed on the first deal. Victorino may not even get his job back and Todd Jones sucks.

You honestly think the career backups currently manning Philly's OF are going to keep Victorino on the bench? I don't see that at all. Off days? Yea, but no more than Votto and I needed more speed and R's a lot more than power/avg. I think platooning Victorino with Bourn and Hamilton will do my team better than riding it out with Votto. Whether Todd Jones sucks or not, the closer job is his. Saves are saves and with a team ERA under 3 and a WHIP under 1.1 I think I can manage with him.

Its well known that Victorino is in Manuel's doghouse already (that started late last year). The way Werth is playing and the way Manuel glowingly talks about Werth it wouldnt surprise me in the least. Also, how much value does Victorino actually have? I dont think much at this point.

I'd say a guy a year removed from a 12 HR, 37 SB, 280/350/425 campaign in just 450 AB's with a career total of 3 career errors would be pretty valuable. I'm not from the Charlie Manuel Book of coaching though, the same book that thought it was a good idea to move his best pitcher in the bullpen last season. If he wants to be an idiot and keep a prototypical 2 hole bat out of the lineup then so be it.

 

[shadyridr]

You honestly think the career backups currently manning Philly's OF are going to keep Victorino on the bench?

You say career backups like Victorino is some kind of established stud. He's had significant playing time for all of two years, with a high of 510 PA last year.His fantasy value is derived from stealing bases and being surrounded by talent in the Phillies lineup. With a .733 career OPS, he's not exactly indispensable as a real-life player.

Lee has more of a proven track record than Victorino.

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

His next 7 starts are as follows: v SEA, v KC, v TOR, v OAK, @ CWS, v TEX and @ KC. He's obviously not going to maintain the numbers he's got right now, but through May looks nice.

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

Has anyone out there traded Lee since his last start?

 

[Bobcat10]

You honestly think the career backups currently manning Philly's OF are going to keep Victorino on the bench?

You say career backups like Victorino is some kind of established stud. He's had significant playing time for all of two years, with a high of 510 PA last year.His fantasy value is derived from stealing bases and being surrounded by talent in the Phillies lineup. With a .733 career OPS, he's not exactly indispensable as a real-life player.

Lee has more of a proven track record than Victorino.

I'd be trading for Lee if I'm giving up Victorino (and I'd throw in Jones to boot).

 

[shadyridr]

I just executed a deal to get me Victorino and Todd Jones in exchange for Votto and Cliff Lee.

I have a deal on the table that nets me Kevin Gregg and Matt Kemp for Cliff Lee and Votto, I'm waffling and waiting on responses to some other feeler's.

League #3, haven't tried to formualte anything just yet, probably try to swing a 2-for-1 deal and upgrade my C (Molina) or SS (O Cab) and free up a roster spot for SP streaming.

seriously? The 2nd deal seems fair.

Seriously, took advantage of an owner who's having some serious SP issues headlined by CC and Liriano.I'm waffling on #2 because I'm concerned Gregg may be traded before the deadline to a team who will use him as a setup man. Otherwise I'd have already accepted it.

I was saying seriously cuz I think you got hosed on the first deal. Victorino may not even get his job back and Todd Jones sucks.

You honestly think the career backups currently manning Philly's OF are going to keep Victorino on the bench? I don't see that at all. Off days? Yea, but no more than Votto and I needed more speed and R's a lot more than power/avg. I think platooning Victorino with Bourn and Hamilton will do my team better than riding it out with Votto. Whether Todd Jones sucks or not, the closer job is his. Saves are saves and with a team ERA under 3 and a WHIP under 1.1 I think I can manage with him.

Victorino has now been off the DL 2 games. How many games has he started since?

 

[MAC_32]

I just executed a deal to get me Victorino and Todd Jones in exchange for Votto and Cliff Lee.

I have a deal on the table that nets me Kevin Gregg and Matt Kemp for Cliff Lee and Votto, I'm waffling and waiting on responses to some other feeler's.

League #3, haven't tried to formualte anything just yet, probably try to swing a 2-for-1 deal and upgrade my C (Molina) or SS (O Cab) and free up a roster spot for SP streaming.

seriously? The 2nd deal seems fair.

Seriously, took advantage of an owner who's having some serious SP issues headlined by CC and Liriano.I'm waffling on #2 because I'm concerned Gregg may be traded before the deadline to a team who will use him as a setup man. Otherwise I'd have already accepted it.

I was saying seriously cuz I think you got hosed on the first deal. Victorino may not even get his job back and Todd Jones sucks.

You honestly think the career backups currently manning Philly's OF are going to keep Victorino on the bench? I don't see that at all. Off days? Yea, but no more than Votto and I needed more speed and R's a lot more than power/avg. I think platooning Victorino with Bourn and Hamilton will do my team better than riding it out with Votto. Whether Todd Jones sucks or not, the closer job is his. Saves are saves and with a team ERA under 3 and a WHIP under 1.1 I think I can manage with him.

Victorino has now been off the DL 2 games. How many games has he started since?

He's starting today and today is the first day I planned on using him.I've had Todd Jones for five days and he's gotten me two saves.

Votto's is being a typical streaky rookie, going 6/20 (300) with half of his hits coming in one game w/4 R's, 1 RBI, and 1 XBH

Cliff Lee had another good game last night having one mistake that led to 3 ER's but still got the win.

It's been 5 days, we've both gotten about what we've wanted so far.

That said, it's been 5 days, there's about 150 more to go. Evaluating a trade after 5 days when no injuries have occured is just plain dumb.

 

[The General]

I am getting offered Nick Markakis for him in a 16 team league. My gut tells me Lee will be fairly solid the rest of the year. In this league's scoring Markakis is a solid but not spectacular OF (if he does what he did last year).

Am I nuts for not taking this?

 

[Pai Mei]

Cliff Lee is a very talented pitcher that went 18-5 in 2005. However he had to deal with some injuries that sidelined his career for a while. He's healthy again and doing great.

 

[shadyridr]

I am getting offered Nick Markakis for him in a 16 team league. My gut tells me Lee will be fairly solid the rest of the year. In this league's scoring Markakis is a solid but not spectacular OF (if he does what he did last year).Am I nuts for not taking this?

TAKE IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bobcat10]

I am getting offered Nick Markakis for him in a 16 team league. My gut tells me Lee will be fairly solid the rest of the year. In this league's scoring Markakis is a solid but not spectacular OF (if he does what he did last year).Am I nuts for not taking this?

TAKE IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Although it might be nice to see your current OF and SP....but in a 16-teamer, this sounds like a no brainer.Remember, when Cliffy was winning alot of games in the past, he wasn't always putting up great stats outside of wins.

 

[MAC_32]

I just executed a deal to get me Victorino and Todd Jones in exchange for Votto and Cliff Lee.

I have a deal on the table that nets me Kevin Gregg and Matt Kemp for Cliff Lee and Votto, I'm waffling and waiting on responses to some other feeler's.

League #3, haven't tried to formualte anything just yet, probably try to swing a 2-for-1 deal and upgrade my C (Molina) or SS (O Cab) and free up a roster spot for SP streaming.

seriously? The 2nd deal seems fair.

Still laughing?

 

[Michael Brown]

I just executed a deal to get me Victorino and Todd Jones in exchange for Votto and Cliff Lee.

I have a deal on the table that nets me Kevin Gregg and Matt Kemp for Cliff Lee and Votto, I'm waffling and waiting on responses to some other feeler's.

League #3, haven't tried to formualte anything just yet, probably try to swing a 2-for-1 deal and upgrade my C (Molina) or SS (O Cab) and free up a roster spot for SP streaming.

seriously? The 2nd deal seems fair.

Still laughing?

Still doesn't negate the fact that you could have and should have gotten a lot more for Lee at the time. It's like a guy bragging about taking his "sleeper" RB in the 4th round and having it pan out. You're not getting value out of it even if it works out for you, because you could've had him much later. In this instance, although you feel that the trade is tilting in your favor (and that's very much debatable because Votto is hitting and Lee is still winning), you likely could have gotten something that was a slam-dunk if you had waited a week or two.

 

[MAC_32]

I just executed a deal to get me Victorino and Todd Jones in exchange for Votto and Cliff Lee.

I have a deal on the table that nets me Kevin Gregg and Matt Kemp for Cliff Lee and Votto, I'm waffling and waiting on responses to some other feeler's.

League #3, haven't tried to formualte anything just yet, probably try to swing a 2-for-1 deal and upgrade my C (Molina) or SS (O Cab) and free up a roster spot for SP streaming.

seriously? The 2nd deal seems fair.

Still laughing?

Still doesn't negate the fact that you could have and should have gotten a lot more for Lee at the time. It's like a guy bragging about taking his "sleeper" RB in the 4th round and having it pan out. You're not getting value out of it even if it works out for you, because you could've had him much later. In this instance, although you feel that the trade is tilting in your favor (and that's very much debatable because Votto is hitting and Lee is still winning), you likely could have gotten something that was a slam-dunk if you had waited a week or two.

In my eyes there's a difference between laughing about a deal and thinking I could have gotten more. Thinking I could have gotten more is fine. Had I known two key pieces of the Yankee lineup would be missing from their May 7 meeting I would have held through Toronto but since I did not know that at that time I thought it was time to sell. I think Lee will continue to do well, but in a middle of a fantasy rotation sort of way, not the elite version we saw in April. Acquiring Victorino when I did is the definition of buying low, the responses I received more or less proves that. Votto has been very average this month except for the one blow up game and as I said previously I needed upgrading at R's and SB's - I'd say acquiring 28 R's (3rd in the league) and 10 SB's (5th in the league) over the last month has helped me achieve my objective.

 

[shadyridr]

I just executed a deal to get me Victorino and Todd Jones in exchange for Votto and Cliff Lee.

I have a deal on the table that nets me Kevin Gregg and Matt Kemp for Cliff Lee and Votto, I'm waffling and waiting on responses to some other feeler's.

League #3, haven't tried to formualte anything just yet, probably try to swing a 2-for-1 deal and upgrade my C (Molina) or SS (O Cab) and free up a roster spot for SP streaming.

seriously? The 2nd deal seems fair.

Still laughing?

Still think you got the bad end of the deal Also, Werth getting hurt was a huge factor in making the deal look better for you.

 

[MAC_32]

I just executed a deal to get me Victorino and Todd Jones in exchange for Votto and Cliff Lee.

I have a deal on the table that nets me Kevin Gregg and Matt Kemp for Cliff Lee and Votto, I'm waffling and waiting on responses to some other feeler's.

League #3, haven't tried to formualte anything just yet, probably try to swing a 2-for-1 deal and upgrade my C (Molina) or SS (O Cab) and free up a roster spot for SP streaming.

seriously? The 2nd deal seems fair.

Still laughing?

Still think you got the bad end of the deal Also, Werth getting hurt was a huge factor in making the deal look better for you.

Still hanging your hat on Werth effecting Victorino's playing time? Please, Victorino didn't start two games in the month of May when Werth was healthy (3 weeks), that's it, and he was still hitting poorly. The two days off? In the middle of a stretch of 17 straight days without a day off.