The Z Machine
Footballguy
16 year old going strong to the rim. Love it.
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Coaching Youth Basketball (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter nirad3
- Start date
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
The way kids train plyo these days is insane. The kid he dunked on probably has more bounce (and quicker), he just got caught a step too far behind. He had multiple run downs and pins in the tournament. We got a new transfer, 5'10 doughy/pastey kid who can shoot the lights out. I was joking with the other coaches during a waterbreak that we used always assume the unathletic kids that show up are always snipers. Just I finish saying it, the kid throws one down with two hands on the far basket.
Wu-banger
Footballguy
his lazy reaction after the missed shot is the reason he got dunked on in the first place.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I wasn't thrilled about the team mate doing the too small celebration vs getting back on defense. I know other coaches are more forgiving of stuff like that but for me it would be a coaching point to discuss with that player.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
OK?
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
I don't think anyone did the too small, but a few were tapping their head ie you just got dunked on. Our transition defense was fine, we try and defend 92 feet when we can.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Head top... yea.... like I said, some coaches are more about that... for me, it is a coaching point. Game clock ticking then play the game.
SWC
Bromigo
my experience is that in the summer they let the girls beat the hell out of each other and then when high school season starts everything is a foul to the point of absurdity take that to the bank brohans
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Interesting. It will be interesting to see. They certainly did let them beat each other up during summer.
She finished the summer league season hitting 2 of 3 three pointers and a couple more mid range for a pretty high overall fg% right around (if not at) 50%. She did seem to get more comfortable and stopped being timid. As it stands now, I think she has an outside shot of making the JV team and if not then should be the first team freshman (there are two freshman teams). It will probably be beneficial for her to not make the JV team and get more playing time and develop more, then earn more playing time next year for JV.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
Totally missed this while we were in Europe.How tall are you?
I was always the tallest growing up... very rarely meeting someone my age that was taller. I always thought I was 6'1'' as I was in 8th grade and stopped. Literally always thought this... I think I did grow more and maybe 6'2" or 6'2 1/2. I just found this out this morning. No joke.
So, Thursday I took my older son to the Notre Dame Jr High Football camp. Standing waiting for my son to get some autographs from the coaching staff, one camper was next to me and taller than me. He couldn't be more than 8th grade and would have been roughly an inch or two taller than me. I said something to him about being in 8th and he said he was 6'4 1/2" and I balked at it saying I was 6'1" and he had and inch or two on me. He replied that he had just been at the Dr's appointment and that was the measurement (which I figure with him being that tall that they would take extra care to get a good measurement on him). So, this morning, I tried to measure myself and I am taller than 6'1" for sure.Hard to get a real good measurement doing it yourself but no doubt taller than 6'1".
Anyways, yes, I would get him exposed to a bunch of sports and have do multiple sports at least up to Jr High. I really am a proponent for multi sports even if one sport has been signaled out as their love. Others sports help develop and train them as well in ways that doing one can not (soccer being an example, you can not improve footwork as well focusing on basketball as you can taking some time to play soccer). It also helps keep them fresh and away from burnout. I mean, the number of kids who drop sports in HS is tremendous and not an insignificant number were one sport athletes who just tire of their sport. It also helps avoid injury from overuse and wearing down concentrated muscle groups.
I would consider these sports as the best compliments to development in basketball:
- Swim, unmatched for development of strength, conditioning, lung capacity, explosiveness, etc- all with almost no injury risk and no stressing of his joints etc. (at that size, that is a huge plus, at these ages maybe does not notice it but building him up with saving wear and tear on his body is huge). There is different thoughts on competitive swimming assisting in height growth as well so there may or may not be helpful to get the most out of his height- my view is it will certainly not hurt and the decompression of the spine while swimming certainly can't hold him back. Huge advocate for swimming for most athletes but would strongly push you to explore it for him.
- Soccer (as much as I am not a fan of the sport itself), as discussed footwork is unmatched. Develops agility and endurance. Using your body and positioning to protect the ball. Spacing and off ball movement as well.
- Volleyball, the obvious point here is jumping. Plus, it may end up being a good sport for him anyways with his height. Also, agility, explosiveness, hand speed and reflex development.
I'm 5'11", the wife is 5'9". Both sides have height (my dad is 6'2" and father inlaw is 6'1"). We joke that the only reason I'm below 6' is because my mom is 5'1" on a good day!
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
First practice for summer rec league is tonight. The lottery went well and we've got a very tall team. My son is 5'1". Another kid who just happened to get placed on our team from our AAU team is 5'1" and we got a kid who's at least 5'3". All 9-10YOs, mind you. The 5'3" kid is super raw and unskilled, but I think he'll do a good job anchoring our 2-3 zone and rebounding. Our ball handlers are smaller, but skilled. My hope is that this will be a confidence booster for my son, who had a tough AAU season, and something to spark that love of the game again. We'll see.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Mom has some height and you have a little more in the background. I wonder if he will be like me.... sprout up and then stop and others catch up.Totally missed this while we were in Europe.How tall are you?
I was always the tallest growing up... very rarely meeting someone my age that was taller. I always thought I was 6'1'' as I was in 8th grade and stopped. Literally always thought this... I think I did grow more and maybe 6'2" or 6'2 1/2. I just found this out this morning. No joke.
So, Thursday I took my older son to the Notre Dame Jr High Football camp. Standing waiting for my son to get some autographs from the coaching staff, one camper was next to me and taller than me. He couldn't be more than 8th grade and would have been roughly an inch or two taller than me. I said something to him about being in 8th and he said he was 6'4 1/2" and I balked at it saying I was 6'1" and he had and inch or two on me. He replied that he had just been at the Dr's appointment and that was the measurement (which I figure with him being that tall that they would take extra care to get a good measurement on him). So, this morning, I tried to measure myself and I am taller than 6'1" for sure.
Anyways, yes, I would get him exposed to a bunch of sports and have do multiple sports at least up to Jr High. I really am a proponent for multi sports even if one sport has been signaled out as their love. Others sports help develop and train them as well in ways that doing one can not (soccer being an example, you can not improve footwork as well focusing on basketball as you can taking some time to play soccer). It also helps keep them fresh and away from burnout. I mean, the number of kids who drop sports in HS is tremendous and not an insignificant number were one sport athletes who just tire of their sport. It also helps avoid injury from overuse and wearing down concentrated muscle groups.
I would consider these sports as the best compliments to development in basketball:
- Swim, unmatched for development of strength, conditioning, lung capacity, explosiveness, etc- all with almost no injury risk and no stressing of his joints etc. (at that size, that is a huge plus, at these ages maybe does not notice it but building him up with saving wear and tear on his body is huge). There is different thoughts on competitive swimming assisting in height growth as well so there may or may not be helpful to get the most out of his height- my view is it will certainly not hurt and the decompression of the spine while swimming certainly can't hold him back. Huge advocate for swimming for most athletes but would strongly push you to explore it for him.
- Soccer (as much as I am not a fan of the sport itself), as discussed footwork is unmatched. Develops agility and endurance. Using your body and positioning to protect the ball. Spacing and off ball movement as well.
- Volleyball, the obvious point here is jumping. Plus, it may end up being a good sport for him anyways with his height. Also, agility, explosiveness, hand speed and reflex development.
I'm 5'11", the wife is 5'9". Both sides have height (my dad is 6'2" and father inlaw is 6'1"). We joke that the only reason I'm below 6' is because my mom is 5'1" on a good day!
With my kids, I been making sure to supplement their diets with Orgain Kids Protein Shakes (as they were younger) and more Carnation High Protein Breakfast Essentials as they have got older and now a little bit of Premier Protein for my older kids. Of course, trying to get them to have good eating habits and full nutrition as well. My wife is Filipina so her 5'4" isn't helping.
Currently my older son went to the Dr Monday and is 97 percentile for his age. The younger one is above average.... I think in the 60-70 area.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Man... for a rec league, sounds like you are well set up to trounce.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
Nutrition is hard. I cook most of our meals, so we end up with dinners that are pretty healthy. Usually a lean protein, a fresh veggie, and a small serving of starch. Breakfast, the kids like muscle milk, so good protein there. Lunch is where it usually falls apart...and honestly, I'm ok with that. I want both kids to eat well, but they will be introduced to junk at some point and I don't want them to become the kids who never had it and go nuts for it once they leave the house. I guess I'm trying to introduce a good balance and not make food the bad guy.
My youngest has always been above the 99th percentile curve for height. It seems to be trending back toward the 99th percentile curve lately, though.
Do you do any cardio work with your kids? Both of mine have run off/on with me, but both have a hard time being consistent with it. I know it would help both of mine with their preferred sports (Basketball and Hockey), but I don't want to push them too much.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Super hard. My biggest goal is try to get them to establish good habits... something I never did. I ate crap and a ton of it as a kid and burned it all off. Never thought about protein or vitamin/minerals, balance eating, etc. I got more focused on it when my daughter broke her arm and was diagnosed with vitamin D deficiency.... and I should have known as she doesn't like milk and not big on other foods that are good sources and being in Chicago area, large parts of the year not spending a ton outside getting sun. After the Dr had her on prescription Vitamin D, I have made sure that she is getting a good amount of that and calcium etc.
My sons have seemed to listened to me as I have tried to explain healthy choices, and why and what matters etc. My son for lunch today grabbed a couple of high protein yogurts, threw them in a bowl with granola and chia seeds and that was his lunch so I see wins like that at a decent frequency.... but they are also kids so they will burn through trash food. My wife gets them some of that high sugar basically no nutrition cereal and they will eat that but at least we get Fairlife milk so they are getting something from that.
Try to get them good nutrition, try to help them learn good habits but then also let them be kids too. Hard for sure.
For conditioning, my boys are in swim which does it. Can not stress how awesome swimming is for conditioning of all sports. My older sons conditioning is clearly superior to most kids his age and I attribute it to swim as the secret sauce there. And not just, we have a pool and swim during summer but competitive swim. Working all muscle groups, with constant movement and resistance. We ended up basically taking the winter season off when my wife's tumor was found but we kept basketball going.... I could see a little decline in my sons conditioning for basketball and a little less explosiveness in his movements.
For my daughter, I was getting her up in the morning and doing workouts for a little stretch but then it was basically a fight every morning and I finally to her that I wasn't going to do that every morning. If she wants to work out then she can work out. She is an incoming Freshman so she needs to learn it on her own... I can't push it. She wants to do volleyball and basketball but she puts zero into it outside of practices. Hopefully she learns.
My older son said he would go to the gym with me when he is able to which is about a month from now. With swim and all the other sports that they do, I don't really push hard for the kids to do much outside in terms of conditioning. My older son plays football, basketball, soccer, volleyball and track (all school) and then swim (club) and my younger one is football, basketball, soccer (likely volleyball this year as that is the first year available and track in 5th grade) plus BJJ and then swim. I do try to get them to do skill development but do not feel I need to push conditioning as they are pretty active anyways and swim is the ace in the sleeve on that anyways.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Be careful, 9-10 YO playing zone is like the bat signal to anyone who coaches basketball to remind you (rightly) that they should be playing man. Especially in rec. It's been rehashed enough in the thread, but still find it amusing that youth coaches do it.
Instinctive
Footballguy
How much time/planning do you usually have for dinners? I'm our chef as well and it constantly feels like I'm a little short on time to prep (like chop stuff). I'm considering using a lot more frozen pre-cut veggies just to make sure they're getting into meals.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Yup. Prob about a third of this thread has been discussion on that. I am a huge proponent of M2M. Just infinitely easier to go from a M2M to a junk or zone than vice versa. Harder to teach and 'win' at younger ages but much better for long term development and I have found in a league that does tend to play zone- a competitive advantage once the kids get it.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
LOL. Yeah, we have 4 practices before games start and 9 players of widely varied skill levels that are required to play equal shifts. Teaching solid m2m fundamentals in that kind of compressed season inclusive of summer vacations and whatnot would require 3/4 of my 1 hour per week practice time. I can introduce an attacking 2-3 that protects some of my weaker defenders in much less time leaving more time for offensive fundamentals and skill drills. These compressed 8 weeks seasons are just too short to properly teach m2m fundamentals. Our rec league also does a random lottery/draft before each season, so you don't have continuity with players other than your child (and maybe 1 assistant's child).
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I am the NON-Chef of the family. I used to do a dish that my kids loved more than pretty much anything (though I haven't done it much anymore).... it came about when I had to make dinner... and went the tried and true Mac n Cheese but was like "they need more protein" so I added beanless chili to it. Then I was like... they really need some veggies.... so I tried to figure something out and then came up with adding peas to it. It wasn't bad at all. My wife refused to try it (which is why I haven't made it much as she is the primary Chef of the family) but my kids would eat seconds and thirds of hefty portions.
Ok... that is about as much as I can add to that.... I will let you adults discuss in further detail.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
For summer, we combined two teams from school so as to have enough boys for games when kids were doing other sports or vacation etc. My team was use to M2M as that is all we did. The other team, not so much. We have very little practice time as once school ended we lost our access to the school court. It 100% contributed to most of our early losses though we started to win games towards the end. One game, I was held back from work and the wife of the other coach coached the first half as he was held back from work too.... she did a zone and when I walked in almost near balf we were up 12-2..... I took over second half and the game ended 14-12
lol, I told her I should be fired and we should have her coach from now on.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
I generally allot 30-45min for dinner preparation. Having good quality knives that are sharp helps. The wife/kids got me a new Japanese chef's knife and a petty knife for father's day and they make a huge difference in veggie prep time. I also tend to use simpler recipes for protein prep that don't require tons of time. Proteins are most often cooked on the stovetop while veggies and starch are roasted in the oven. I also allocate 2 hours on Sunday to mealprep lunches for my wife and I. That tends to be a bit easier, but follows a similar profile of protein, veggie and starch. You'd be surprised at how delicious a roasted turkey tenderloin seasoned with some spice rub seasonings (I love meatchurch rub/seasoning) can be. That works for chicken breast, turkey tenderloin, pork tenderloin, and flank steak. Occasionally I'll get a wild hair and make homemade meatballs and simmer them in marinara sauce. The veggie tends to be whatever comes out of the garden (broccoli, cauliflower, squash, zucchini, etc) or frozen veggies outside of growing season. Those get a bit of seasoning and then straight into the oven for roasting. Starch usually is diced potatoes, again with some seasoning or good brown rice. Occasionally couscous. THere are TONS of helpful blogs out there that discuss meal prep and how to save time and money with it. Good luck!
FYI, frozen veggies aren't perfect, but they are a heck of a lot better than canned or no veggies at all.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Since you replied with some excuses...
Practice time is irrelevant. A zone before even varsity level HS play is about winning, and does not improve players. Even if only 15 minutes of your practice time was spent on the basic fundamental of defensive stance and slide and between man and basket (like the literal pre-101 level stuff), it would be better for the players. It would be better, in any league, even rec, to lose by 10 but get 2% better at staying with a guy from sheer reps and trying stuff, for every single player involved.
You don't need to properly teach everything. Perfect should not be the enemy of good. You have a compressed 8 weeks and have chosen to use that time not to make anyone better at defense.
That's fine. It's just silly to pretend like it's anything else.
If you don;t want to coach M2M because you have a practice time limitation, it would be better to just spend 100% of time on offensive stuff and let the defense be what it'll be and just hope kids get better with some pointers here and there, but still play man the entire time. The only reason to go zone is to try and win.
Winning is fine. It's fun. It's a rec league. But "protecting weaker defenders" is NOT a developmental mindset. It's a winning mindset, and it comes at the cost of the players' development.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
Respectfully (and I mean that sincerely) your post is 100% hyperbole. Upwards of 90% of this small town rec league won't play beyond rec ball and a good portion won't play organized ball again, ever. When I've committed to teaching M2M at this level, some players will always have trouble figuring out who their guarding leading to straight chaos on the defensive end. Teammates end up having to overhelp and end up learning bad M2M habits. Teaching a zone gives kids a smaller concept to grasp and master. Also, I'm just a dad who played a little basketball in high school and was asked to coach. I'm doing the best I can and right now, the best I can do is teach them some concept of defense that they can understand in the limited practice time I have.
The idea that I only do it to win is straight BS, but you knew that already.
Instinctive
Footballguy
I disagree. I also mean it with sincere respect. And I've coached every level from 5 year olds to the NBA.
I didn't say you weren't doing the best you could. Just that's it's a truth. Didn't even say you should play M2M. Just that you should be aware of the tradeoffs.
I don't believe it's BS at all. And playing organized ball again has nothing to do with it. In fact, have you ever seen a pickup game in zone? That's even more in favor of why there's no reason to do it.
I'm sure you're doing a great job, and better than some other dad who didn't want to volunteer and whose wife made him do it so someone could.
But I do not think I am exaggerating. I am sharing a truth born of experience, and one that any person who has actually coached basketball as a job would agree with.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Us M2M only crowd are a bunch of zealots and can come across strongly at times for sure. I am probably one of the less zealoty of the lot.
I agree, for rec the great majority of the boys playing with not continue basketball for long but some may. At these young ages, you really have very little idea of who and who will not develop or have the passion to continue working towards basketball. When I was a kid, I had some very poor coaching though I didn't know it back then. Looking back, it did slow my development (though it ended up not mattering as I blew my knew out in 9th grade). I am not a professional coach by any means but I am motivated to help each kid I coach to develop as much as possible and learn life lessons through sport. Your experiences and background are different than mine but I have no doubt you are driven to do your best as well.
With my 3rd grade team this year and then the summer league combined team, there is always kids that for whatever reason struggle with the concept of guarding their man. It hurts us for winning as in both the regular season and summer season we lost most of our early games but then as I kept at it (because I believe in it so much and have committed to losing if it takes that to get the kids to learn M2M) we ended up progressing significantly. I could be wrong but I really do not think that the lack of some picking it up hurt the others who were more experienced or otherwise more apt at M2M to pick up any bad habits.
I am assuming it being a rec summer league it will be very short. So was our summer season and we had even less practice. I think it is doable and I personally am committed to doing it no matter what (even with my assistant coaches asking otherwise) so I did it. It might be worth considering.
I agree, for rec the great majority of the boys playing with not continue basketball for long but some may. At these young ages, you really have very little idea of who and who will not develop or have the passion to continue working towards basketball. When I was a kid, I had some very poor coaching though I didn't know it back then. Looking back, it did slow my development (though it ended up not mattering as I blew my knew out in 9th grade). I am not a professional coach by any means but I am motivated to help each kid I coach to develop as much as possible and learn life lessons through sport. Your experiences and background are different than mine but I have no doubt you are driven to do your best as well.
With my 3rd grade team this year and then the summer league combined team, there is always kids that for whatever reason struggle with the concept of guarding their man. It hurts us for winning as in both the regular season and summer season we lost most of our early games but then as I kept at it (because I believe in it so much and have committed to losing if it takes that to get the kids to learn M2M) we ended up progressing significantly. I could be wrong but I really do not think that the lack of some picking it up hurt the others who were more experienced or otherwise more apt at M2M to pick up any bad habits.
I am assuming it being a rec summer league it will be very short. So was our summer season and we had even less practice. I think it is doable and I personally am committed to doing it no matter what (even with my assistant coaches asking otherwise) so I did it. It might be worth considering.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
Fair point. My perspective is that the kids who will go on to play more organized ball will play with other coaches and learn other techniques. The kids who will not, should also be given an opportunity to play and try to contribute as much as possible. If I can teach those kids an offense and defense that mitigates their overwhelm, then I'll do so. If I can teach those kids so that they feel that they contribute on both ends of the court, then I have done my job as a rec coach (IMO).
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
FIBA u19 knockouts started today. You can catch the live on YT on the FIBA channel. Son's ex-teammate, Ivan Kharchenkov, left off the roster as he was playing in the DBL playoffs last week. I think he's commited to Arizona. His dad played on the Soviet WC team in 1974
