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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (6 Viewers)

Patrick Daugherty‏ @RotoPat 18h18 hours ago

It's like the NFL and its owners wake up every morning asking "what could we do today to keep the anthem story in the news for no reason?"

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Huh?  We both just agreed they are protesting Trump's mouth.   Are you claiming it's something else now?
Click to expand...
Sigh. Not sure why I'm wasting my time educating someone who has no desire to be educated, but here goes....Trump reenergized the movement. Kaepernick started the movement and it was not a Trump protest.  As the next season started, 10 players knelt in week one.  Six players knelt in week two.  Trump decides he'd like to use this divisive topic to his advantage and pick a topic that is sure to fire up his base.  Call them sons of #####es. Says he would fire their asses.  Week three- nearly 200 players kneel. Week four- less than 100 players. And it went down every week except the one where Pence did his preplanned walkout after the national anthem in week 6.   In week three of 2017, they were protesting Trump.   If the racists (Trump/Pence/etc) can manage to keep their noses out of it, it will be a non-issue after a few weeks this season.  Problem is, with Trump getting destroyed because of caging children and his treasonous behavior with Russia, he's liable (perhaps even likely) to look to this issue to try to rally his troops and say something else inflammatory and stupid. I guess we'll see.

 
U.S. Person‏Verified account @AndyGlockner 17h17 hours ago

The NFL could have squashed this entire issue in 5 mins with competent leadership. Instead, they continue to step on rakes. It's like someone dared somebody to come up with the dumbest extended PR response possible.

 
JuniorNB said:
Sigh. Not sure why I'm wasting my time educating someone who has no desire to be educated, 
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Stopped reading right here.  I tried to tell you earlier to cut the immature nonsense out but you doubled down.  I don't think you're capable of educating most people about anything so I'll end the discussion right here.   You have a great weekend, Junior.   :thumbup:

 
Raging weasel said:
Wouldn't the easiest solution be to just move the playing of the anthem to before the players take the field?
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Yep that's what happens at a college game.  Players warm up.  Players go into locker room with about 20 minutes left before the game.  Then all the band stuff and anthem occurs before the players take the field.   NFL should follow their lead.

 
lindsey ok‏Verified account @lindseyyok 18h18 hours ago

Jameis got 3 games for sexual assault (with a history) and they're gonna give 4 for kneeling during a song lmao

 
squistion said:
lindsey ok‏Verified account @lindseyyok 18h18 hours ago

Jameis got 3 games for sexual assault (with a history) and they're gonna give 4 for kneeling during a song lmao
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Tell Lindsey Martavis got 16 for smoking weed.  That will really make her laugh her ### off in comparison

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Why are the players pissing on the league when it's Trump they are protesting?  And yes, they are doing it on company time whether it's 6 players or 200 players or the whole league.  
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I'm not taking issue with your comment on venue/company time, but the seven remaining protestors at end of last year were not protesting Trump.

"But following Trump’s comments, more than 100 players knelt in Week 3, and dozens more offered gestures of solidarity—some, like the Cowboys’ Jerry Jones-led pre-anthem kneel, with debatable levels of sincerity.

But these seven players, and their injured colleagues who also knelt as long as they were on the field, have continued to advocate for the original intent of the movement Kaepernick began in August 2016"
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2752195-the-nfls-last-men-kneeling

 
Mystery Achiever said:
I'm not taking issue with your comment on venue/company time, but the seven remaining protestors at end of last year were not protesting Trump.

"But following Trump’s comments, more than 100 players knelt in Week 3, and dozens more offered gestures of solidarity—some, like the Cowboys’ Jerry Jones-led pre-anthem kneel, with debatable levels of sincerity.

But these seven players, and their injured colleagues who also knelt as long as they were on the field, have continued to advocate for the original intent of the movement Kaepernick began in August 2016"
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2752195-the-nfls-last-men-kneeling
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We are in agreement.  There are a handful of players that have stuck to their message all along.  

 
Unfortunately, that message gets drowned out by the larger kerfuffle.

ETA- League should have suspended the anthem rule when they 1st agreed to talks with the PA a couple of weeks ago. It's not really good faith to have teams submitting punishment plans while talks continue. But, in typical reactive fashion, it took the Dolphin's plan submission to put this back in the news and force their hand.

 
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Ramblin Wreck said:
How many offenses of weed are worth 16 games if kneeling gets 4 and sexual assault accusations gets 3?
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Repeated offenders are always treated more harshly by the courts and in the NFL.

How many alcohol related offenses are worth an indefinite suspension or a lifetime ban? (See Justin Blackmon who was essentially given that since he has not been reinstated from his repeated alcohol related issues). 

 
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Ramblin Wreck said:
Yep that's what happens at a college game.  Players warm up.  Players go into locker room with about 20 minutes left before the game.  Then all the band stuff and anthem occurs before the players take the field.   NFL should follow their lead.
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Good posting.  Let Trump and the NFL players come up with some other way to have their pissing match

 
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Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump 9m9 minutes ago

The NFL National Anthem Debate is alive and well again - can’t believe it! Isn’t it in contract that players must stand at attention, hand on heart? The $40,000,000 Commissioner must now make a stand. First time kneeling, out for game. Second time kneeling, out for season/no pay!

Um, no it isn't in the contract.

 
squistion said:
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump 9m9 minutes ago

The NFL National Anthem Debate is alive and well again - can’t believe it! Isn’t it in contract that players must stand at attention, hand on heart? The $40,000,000 Commissioner must now make a stand. First time kneeling, out for game. Second time kneeling, out for season/no pay!

Um, no it isn't in the contract.
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You know what else is unpatriotic?  Being a freaking traitor.   

 
JuniorNB said:
 If the racists (Trump/Pence/etc) can manage to keep their noses out of it, it will be a non-issue after a few weeks this season.  Problem is, with Trump getting destroyed because of caging children and his treasonous behavior with Russia, he's liable (perhaps even likely) to look to this issue to try to rally his troops and say something else inflammatory and stupid. I guess we'll see.
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Well, Trump couldn't even last the day. I know this clown like the back of my hand. I can predict his every move at this point.

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
Tell lindsey that Elliott got 6 games and nothing was ever proven 
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Maybe not proven to the satisfaction of a prosecutor, but it was proven to the satisfaction of the NFL after they thoroughly did their own investigation.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article166812367.html

NFL: Case against Elliott based on evidence, not ‘he said, she said’

In deciding to suspend Dallas Cowboys running Ezekiel Elliott for six games for violating the personal conduct policy, the NFL clearly believed the domestic violence accusations of his accuser, Tiffany Thompson, more than it did his claims of innocence.

But this was not a case of "he said, she said" in the mind of the NFL, the suspension was based on a thorough investigation and credible evidence, including some the Columbus Ohio prosecutor didn’t have, per Peter Harvey, a former attorney general of New Jersey and one of four independent advisors who helped counsel NFL commissioner Roger Goodell.

"There were over 100 exhibits to the investigation," Harvey said in a conference call with media Friday. "The investigative report exceeded 160 pages. We also reviewed, each of us individually, the submissions by Mr. Elliott’s representative. We studied both; we examined very carefully the defense arguments, and we came to the conclusion – at least, I reached the conclusion individually – that Mr. Elliott engaged in physical force against Ms. Thompson, and that it caused injury."

And while the Columbus prosecutor didn’t believe he had enough evidence to pursue a case, the burden of proof for the NFL isn’t as stringent as the court system. Still this case and investigation was bigger than “he said, she said”.

"Well it starts with ‘he said,she said’, which is why an investigation is conducted," Harvey said. "It became a lot more than ‘he said,she said’. For example, it’s uncommon for women to take photographs of their injuries the day that they occurred. She did that. She sent those photographs to third parties. The examination of the meta-data in her phone revealed the date and time on which those photographs were taken. They were taken the same day as Ms. Thompson alleged she was injured by Mr. Elliott."

"Also, there were third parties who observed injuries on her body and in real time, on the same day, she had a conversation with at least one of these persons about the injury and who caused it. In addition to that, the league brought in two medical experts who examined the photographs and offered expert opinions with respect to the timing of the injury. These medical experts corroborated many of the statements that Ms. Thompson made."

[...]

 
squistion said:
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump 9m9 minutes ago

The NFL National Anthem Debate is alive and well again - can’t believe it! Isn’t it in contract that players must stand at attention, hand on heart? The $40,000,000 Commissioner must now make a stand. First time kneeling, out for game. Second time kneeling, out for season/no pay!
Click to expand...
Replying to @realDonaldTrump

Rantt Media‏ @RanttMedia 24m24 minutes ago

President Donald Trump—who stood on the world stage in Helsinki and called the U.S. foolish then sided with Putin who personally ordered attacks on American democracy, and later invited him to the White House—dares to once again lecture us on patriotism.

 
squistion said:
Maybe not proven to the satisfaction of a prosecutor, but it was proven to the satisfaction of the NFL after they thoroughly did their own investigation.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article166812367.html

NFL: Case against Elliott based on evidence, not ‘he said, she said’

In deciding to suspend Dallas Cowboys running Ezekiel Elliott for six games for violating the personal conduct policy, the NFL clearly believed the domestic violence accusations of his accuser, Tiffany Thompson, more than it did his claims of innocence.

But this was not a case of "he said, she said" in the mind of the NFL, the suspension was based on a thorough investigation and credible evidence, including some the Columbus Ohio prosecutor didn’t have, per Peter Harvey, a former attorney general of New Jersey and one of four independent advisors who helped counsel NFL commissioner Roger Goodell.

"There were over 100 exhibits to the investigation," Harvey said in a conference call with media Friday. "The investigative report exceeded 160 pages. We also reviewed, each of us individually, the submissions by Mr. Elliott’s representative. We studied both; we examined very carefully the defense arguments, and we came to the conclusion – at least, I reached the conclusion individually – that Mr. Elliott engaged in physical force against Ms. Thompson, and that it caused injury."

And while the Columbus prosecutor didn’t believe he had enough evidence to pursue a case, the burden of proof for the NFL isn’t as stringent as the court system. Still this case and investigation was bigger than “he said, she said”.

"Well it starts with ‘he said,she said’, which is why an investigation is conducted," Harvey said. "It became a lot more than ‘he said,she said’. For example, it’s uncommon for women to take photographs of their injuries the day that they occurred. She did that. She sent those photographs to third parties. The examination of the meta-data in her phone revealed the date and time on which those photographs were taken. They were taken the same day as Ms. Thompson alleged she was injured by Mr. Elliott."

"Also, there were third parties who observed injuries on her body and in real time, on the same day, she had a conversation with at least one of these persons about the injury and who caused it. In addition to that, the league brought in two medical experts who examined the photographs and offered expert opinions with respect to the timing of the injury. These medical experts corroborated many of the statements that Ms. Thompson made."

[...]
Click to expand...
In the sworn statement, it becomes apparent that Elliott's accuser and ex-girlfriend, Tiffany Thompson, was upset at him and decided to enact vengeance by insanely trying to ruin his career. 

The statement details the situation, in which Thompson admits numerous times to making up the accusation. 

It says that Thompson shouted at Elliott that she was going to "ruin his career," and also that Thompson told her friend in a text to tell the police that the Cowboys star had dragged her out of the car, despite that being not true. 

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
In the sworn statement, it becomes apparent that Elliott's accuser and ex-girlfriend, Tiffany Thompson, was upset at him and decided to enact vengeance by insanely trying to ruin his career. 

The statement details the situation, in which Thompson admits numerous times to making up the accusation. 

It says that Thompson shouted at Elliott that she was going to "ruin his career," and also that Thompson told her friend in a text to tell the police that the Cowboys star had dragged her out of the car, despite that being not true. 
Click to expand...
The point is you acted if is the NFL had nothing but unproven allegations and as the bolded in the article indicated, that was far from being the case.

 
squistion said:
The point is you acted if is the NFL had nothing but unproven allegations and as the bolded in the article indicated, that was far from being the case.
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Apparently you missed this part -

The statement details the situation, in which Thompson admits numerous times to making up the accusation. 

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
Apparently you missed this part -

The statement details the situation, in which Thompson admits numerous times to making up the accusation. 
Click to expand...
Not everything she said was a false accusation. More from the article I quoted:

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article166812367.html

[...]

"Her false statement that was revealed was she accused Mr. Elliott of yanking her out of a car on July 21st, really it’s the morning of the 22nd," Harvey said. "That did not happen. And she did ask one of her friends to tell the police that it did happen and the friend had the good sense not to do that. That is true. But as to other statements that she made, both to the Columbus DA as well as to NFL investigators, she was absolutely truthful about them. And by the way, the Columbus prosecutor knew about that false statement and still said to our investigators that he believed her and he believed that the injuries that she articulated to the Columbus DA’s office were caused by Mr. Elliott. He just didn’t believe he had sufficient evidence to prove the case based upon the criminal standard which as you know is beyond a reasonable doubt and that’s the highest standard known to American law.”

Thompson’s statements were corrorobated by photographs and testimony of medical professionals. Elliott’s defense included theories and affidavits from alleged witnesses who proved to be inconsistent and unreliable.

“They declined to be interviewed by the NFL’s investigators, which raised suspicions in our minds about the veracity of these witnesses,” Harvey said. “In at least one of the affidavits that I reviewed, the information was different in the affidavit than the witness gave to the NFL’s investigators when they talked to this particular witness. We also examined the arguments made by Mr. Elliott’s representatives, and the arguments seemed to be theoretical. They did not seem to be supported by any witness, any document, any other substantive evidence. And so as I evaluated the information, I came to the conclusion that physical force was used by Mr. Elliott against Ms. Thompson, that it caused her injury, and it violated, in my view, the personal conduct policy.”

 
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squistion said:
Not everything she said was a false accusation. From the article I linked above:

"Her false statement that was revealed was she accused Mr. Elliott of yanking her out of a car on July 21st, really it’s the morning of the 22nd," Harvey said. "That did not happen. And she did ask one of her friends to tell the police that it did happen and the friend had the good sense not to do that. That is true. But as to other statements that she made, both to the Columbus DA as well as to NFL investigators, she was absolutely truthful about them. And by the way, the Columbus prosecutor knew about that false statement and still said to our investigators that he believed her and he believed that the injuries that she articulated to the Columbus DA’s office were caused by Mr. Elliott. He just didn’t believe he had sufficient evidence to prove the case based upon the criminal standard which as you know is beyond a reasonable doubt and that’s the highest standard known to American law.”

Thompson’s statements were corrorobated by photographs and testimony of medical professionals. Elliott’s defense included theories and affidavits from alleged witnesses who proved to be inconsistent and unreliable.

“They declined to be interviewed by the NFL’s investigators, which raised suspicions in our minds about the veracity of these witnesses,” Harvey said. “In at least one of the affidavits that I reviewed, the information was different in the affidavit than the witness gave to the NFL’s investigators when they talked to this particular witness. We also examined the arguments made by Mr. Elliott’s representatives, and the arguments seemed to be theoretical. They did not seem to be supported by any witness, any document, any other substantive evidence. And so as I evaluated the information, I came to the conclusion that physical force was used by Mr. Elliott against Ms. Thompson, that it caused her injury, and it violated, in my view, the personal conduct policy.”
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm aware of what Goodell thinks. What else ya got?

 
squistion said:
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump 9m9 minutes ago

The NFL National Anthem Debate is alive and well again - can’t believe it! Isn’t it in contract that players must stand at attention, hand on heart? The $40,000,000 Commissioner must now make a stand. First time kneeling, out for game. Second time kneeling, out for season/no pay!
Click to expand...
Andrew Brandt‏ @AndrewBrandt 2h2 hours ago

Not in contract, no.

 
Trump: hand on heart. 

Lmfao.  I’d say no way anyone falls for this disingenuous nonsense, but watch the rally take shape. 

Again, America has jumped the shark.  

 
1. Trump looks terrible after his meeting in Helsinki. 

2. Trump tries to double down, looks even worse. 

3. Trump changes the subject- “Look at all those awful NFL people disrespecting the flag!” 

Seems to work every time. 

 
timschochet said:
1. Trump looks terrible after his meeting in Helsinki. 

2. Trump tries to double down, looks even worse. 

3. Trump changes the subject- “Look at all those awful NFL people disrespecting the flag!” 

Seems to work every time. 
Click to expand...
If only people could think critically about what “disrespecting” the  actually means.  

But picture books and all that...

 
timschochet said:
1. Trump looks terrible after his meeting in Helsinki. 

2. Trump tries to double down, looks even worse. 

3. Trump changes the subject- “Look at all those awful NFL people disrespecting the flag!” 

Seems to work every time. 
Click to expand...
For his base maybe. People have already made up their minds on how they feel about this issue.  His tweeting about it is just noise now just like 80% of his tweets. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Crazy the rection that kneeling players have received and then the Brewers pitcher gets a standing ovation after his racist, sexist, homphobic tweets went viral.

I am not saying we should bury the pitcher (he was in HS) but why is he getting a standing ovation? 
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Hmm.  There might be something different about the pigmentation of his skin that doesn't seem to irritate people quite so much.  ;)

Or besides the Madison area, we are really all a bunch of racist homophobes here...

 
I don't think the guy should be hammered for his views at 17-18 years old if there's been no sign of anything similar since then (Same opinion of Donte DiVincenzo).  But the ovation was weird.

 
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